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Readers' forum: Socialism needed
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HappyLarry | 8:43 a.m. July 17, 2009
One of the problems is the use of the term "socialism". It means
different things in different contexts. Much of the discussion on this
"issue" revolves around equivocation. In some contexts socialism means
the totalitarian systems of the Soviet Union, North Korea, China under Mao,
Cambodia under the Khmer Rouges, etc. For some it is the social welfare state
which varies significantly among nations. Sweden is often called a socialist
state because of its generous social welfare system, but its economy is largely
capitalistic. Sometimes socialism is meant some government investment in
corporations or public corporations or control of "utilities" by the
government like railroads, public transportation, national airlines, etc. For
some socialism is a vague concept meaning "social justice" or
"economic justice". For some it is used as a pejorative term.
CAconservative | 9:35 a.m. July 17, 2009
where has socialism exceeded the success of American Capitalism?
mark | 9:53 a.m. July 17, 2009
See, HappyLarry, that is the way to do it. You put your finger right on it.
Folks, no one is talking about Krushchev's 1950's gulag era USSR, Or Mao's Red China.
All we are talking about is an adjustment to the medical system so that it will better serve peoples medical needs.
I know many people that have no insurance, although they work hard, or have been kicked off insurance. I know people that are paying outrageous amounts for insurance - $1400.00 a month because of pre-exiting conditions.
Now, people, we can debate the merits of health care reform honestly I believe, but all this hyperventilating about socialism and the "great evil" it is, is just a bit much. Relax, get a grip on reality, comrades.
Folks, no one is talking about Krushchev's 1950's gulag era USSR, Or Mao's Red China.
All we are talking about is an adjustment to the medical system so that it will better serve peoples medical needs.
I know many people that have no insurance, although they work hard, or have been kicked off insurance. I know people that are paying outrageous amounts for insurance - $1400.00 a month because of pre-exiting conditions.
Now, people, we can debate the merits of health care reform honestly I believe, but all this hyperventilating about socialism and the "great evil" it is, is just a bit much. Relax, get a grip on reality, comrades.
Comments continue below
Wow | 10:25 a.m. July 17, 2009
This letter is just plain scary. Explains why this country is in such a mess.
It's citizens are brain dead.
Anonymous | 10:46 a.m. July 17, 2009
This comment caught my eye.
"If you do not have insurance the Gov. will fine you (enforced by the IRS). No Ins. company can do that to you."
There's now its done today. You're young and new skis are a higher priority than paying for health insurance.
You slam head first into a tree skiing. You're transported off the slope using a helicopter to a trauma center where you are treated, stabilized to enjoy the rest of your life in a vegetative state.
You didn't pay a dime. We all get stuck paying hundreds od thousands of dollars.
This current system is better or fairer?
"If you do not have insurance the Gov. will fine you (enforced by the IRS). No Ins. company can do that to you."
There's now its done today. You're young and new skis are a higher priority than paying for health insurance.
You slam head first into a tree skiing. You're transported off the slope using a helicopter to a trauma center where you are treated, stabilized to enjoy the rest of your life in a vegetative state.
You didn't pay a dime. We all get stuck paying hundreds od thousands of dollars.
This current system is better or fairer?
Obama Republican | 11:18 a.m. July 17, 2009
It simply amazes me, that most on this board can not see the fruits socialism,
unions, and left wing thought has brought this nation.
A study of history would show the open minded reader that without Left thought, we would still live Slaves to Masters. Just look at the 18th century! Owners vs. Workers, is the sum of capitalism. Owners always think they should keep every penny. Owners always fail to recognize that without the worker they would have nothing. Symbiotic are workers and owners.
Symbiotic is the relationship between all citizens, without each we would have no society. Avoiding aid to the poor and less fortunate is sadly a Right wing thought, normally blaming the individual for their circumstance.
The problem now is that the Gap between Rich and Poor is growing but on a Global Scale. We claim the privilege as Americans to simply consume what we will, passing the cost on to a global community.
The poorest of our poor live better then some of the populace in the world. If I lived in that type of poverty I would do anything to improve my families position.
Social responsibility is all of our responsibility!
A study of history would show the open minded reader that without Left thought, we would still live Slaves to Masters. Just look at the 18th century! Owners vs. Workers, is the sum of capitalism. Owners always think they should keep every penny. Owners always fail to recognize that without the worker they would have nothing. Symbiotic are workers and owners.
Symbiotic is the relationship between all citizens, without each we would have no society. Avoiding aid to the poor and less fortunate is sadly a Right wing thought, normally blaming the individual for their circumstance.
The problem now is that the Gap between Rich and Poor is growing but on a Global Scale. We claim the privilege as Americans to simply consume what we will, passing the cost on to a global community.
The poorest of our poor live better then some of the populace in the world. If I lived in that type of poverty I would do anything to improve my families position.
Social responsibility is all of our responsibility!
Mike Richards | 11:19 a.m. July 17, 2009
Who should be allowed to make your choices, you or the Government?
That's what this argument is about.
Does the Government have a right to make choices for me about health insurance? Does the Government have an obligation to protect me from my choices? Does the Government have the right to enter my home and take my sofa and give it to someone else? Then why can it enter my bank account and take my money through taxes and give it to someone else?
People make decisions. Decisions have consequences. Adults accept the consequences for their decisions. Children expect someone in authority to bail them out. It looks like America has become a Nation of crying children that expect someone else to negate the consequences of their decisions.
Freedom loving people DO NOT give away their Freedom in exchange for security and lives of ease.
No one was promised an easy life by the Creator. The promise was only that the journey through life would be worth the effort required. Why then, when God Himself expects us to work for our daily bread, do some want to sit back and expect others to feed them?
That's what this argument is about.
Does the Government have a right to make choices for me about health insurance? Does the Government have an obligation to protect me from my choices? Does the Government have the right to enter my home and take my sofa and give it to someone else? Then why can it enter my bank account and take my money through taxes and give it to someone else?
People make decisions. Decisions have consequences. Adults accept the consequences for their decisions. Children expect someone in authority to bail them out. It looks like America has become a Nation of crying children that expect someone else to negate the consequences of their decisions.
Freedom loving people DO NOT give away their Freedom in exchange for security and lives of ease.
No one was promised an easy life by the Creator. The promise was only that the journey through life would be worth the effort required. Why then, when God Himself expects us to work for our daily bread, do some want to sit back and expect others to feed them?
RedShirt | 11:32 a.m. July 17, 2009
To "Anonymous | 10:46 a.m." thanks to the precedent set in Florida,
the "rest of your life" really won't be that long. I am sure
that once the government is in charge of healthcare, they will "take
care" of the people in vegetative states.
Arrrrrrrrrrrgh | 11:44 a.m. July 17, 2009
I agree we should become like California.
Re "Lew Jeppson | 10:27 a.m." | 1:14 p.m. July 17, 2009
Lew Jeppson | 10:27 a.m.
If you think self-regulation was rammed down our throats in the 19th century... why didn't you just move to Russia, or some other country bucking the trend? Why are you still in America, the bastion of self-regulation (AKA Freedom)?
If you think self-regulation was rammed down our throats in the 19th century... why didn't you just move to Russia, or some other country bucking the trend? Why are you still in America, the bastion of self-regulation (AKA Freedom)?
Bender Rodriguez | 1:44 p.m. July 17, 2009
re: Re "Lew Jeppson | 10:27 a.m." | 1:14 p.m. July
//Why are you still in America, the bastion of self-regulation (AKA Freedom)?//
You mean like Wall St in the last half of '08?
//Why are you still in America, the bastion of self-regulation (AKA Freedom)?//
You mean like Wall St in the last half of '08?
Anonymous | 3:15 p.m. July 17, 2009
Mike,
We are talking about government and politics here, NOT religion!
Religion poisons everything. Keep it out of government, out of politics, and out of this discussion!
We are talking about government and politics here, NOT religion!
Religion poisons everything. Keep it out of government, out of politics, and out of this discussion!
Where | 4:23 p.m. July 17, 2009
Where on earth do people get the idea that the wealthy are "stealing
from" them? Take a look at George W's tax bill and you will be
astounded as to what he paid per year in taxes. In fact, the wealthy pay most
of the taxes with the media, especially Obama loving media, misrepresenting the
truth to rile the underclass.
I have an acquaintance that hasn't been employed in Sweden in ten years because he isn't motivated to do so. He is paid not to work and has socialized medicine that are sufficient to his needs. That is the reality of socialism..it's a demotivator.
Wait until every person is REQUIRED to pay for health insurance as a tax...that will be most amusing since it will be the only "change" we all have.
I have an acquaintance that hasn't been employed in Sweden in ten years because he isn't motivated to do so. He is paid not to work and has socialized medicine that are sufficient to his needs. That is the reality of socialism..it's a demotivator.
Wait until every person is REQUIRED to pay for health insurance as a tax...that will be most amusing since it will be the only "change" we all have.
mark | 8:28 p.m. July 17, 2009
Where | 4:23 p.m. July 17, 2009
Yeah, you just keep telling yourself that. Go back to sleep now, rock a bye baby, the rich have your best interest at heart, sleep little one, hush now, the rich are looking out for what's best for this country, yes they are sweetie, it's all okay.
Yeah, you just keep telling yourself that. Go back to sleep now, rock a bye baby, the rich have your best interest at heart, sleep little one, hush now, the rich are looking out for what's best for this country, yes they are sweetie, it's all okay.
Re; Mark | 8:50 p.m. July 17, 2009
Let me try to explain something to you. In American Capitolism, even you can get
ahead (become rich) by hard work,innovation, self sacrifice and using your
brain. What does socialism produce? Equal poverty!
reAnonymous | 7:30 | 2:06 p.m. July 19, 2009
Where does it talk about free markey in the constitution? Just wondering.
Equally poor | 4:38 p.m. July 19, 2009
Prosperity doesn't lead to debt for the intelligent, but socialism lead to
poverty and debt for all. Move to some country that was built on your idiotic
ideas.
Anonymous | 5:32 p.m. July 19, 2009
Go read the Article on Socialism in the May 2009 in Business Week.
If you think Obama is a socialist after that then you are beyond help and its proof that AM talk radio is more damaging to the psyche than sugar to diabetic.
If you think Obama is a socialist after that then you are beyond help and its proof that AM talk radio is more damaging to the psyche than sugar to diabetic.
Right on! | 9:37 p.m. July 19, 2009
The conservatives have used "socialism" so much that it is now a
relevant topic. Some times you get what you ask for.
Obama Republican | 11:19 a.m. July 20, 2009
No one wants to admit when they use Socialist programs in their own life. Like
Student Loans, FHA mortgages, Public Transportation, safe work environment etc,
etc...
Most only want to criticize others for their use of benefits. I doubt a single person on this board can say they have not used some sort of benefit.
Teaching a person to fish is the goal of Socialist thought. Eliminating poverty, sickness, ignorance, social injustice, is the goal not via handouts but help outs. Yes, sadly some will take advantage of the system but most will improve their own life and the lives of their posterity.
Most only want to criticize others for their use of benefits. I doubt a single person on this board can say they have not used some sort of benefit.
Teaching a person to fish is the goal of Socialist thought. Eliminating poverty, sickness, ignorance, social injustice, is the goal not via handouts but help outs. Yes, sadly some will take advantage of the system but most will improve their own life and the lives of their posterity.
Anonymous | 12:03 p.m. July 20, 2009
re: Obama Republican | 11:19 a.m. July 20, 2009
//Teaching a person to fish is the goal of Socialist thought. Eliminating poverty, sickness, ignorance, social injustice, is the goal not via handouts but help outs.//
Gee! It kinda sounds like the message that one Jewish philosopher who has a whole religious paradigm based on his teachings.
//Teaching a person to fish is the goal of Socialist thought. Eliminating poverty, sickness, ignorance, social injustice, is the goal not via handouts but help outs.//
Gee! It kinda sounds like the message that one Jewish philosopher who has a whole religious paradigm based on his teachings.
We NEED socialism? | 1:13 p.m. July 20, 2009
Then why did liberals elect a marxist's? Big difference.
John Pack Lambert | 2:51 p.m. July 20, 2009
People talk about Socialism like it is a bad thing. Jesus was a socialist. The
Law of Consecration that was practiced by our pioneer ancestors was socialists.
Socialism is a noble goal.
Obama Republican | 3:41 p.m. July 20, 2009
@Anonymous I think the Jewish Philosopher had a point! Maybe if more people
followed the man from Galilee, we would have less greed, war, corruption and
hunger is this world!
It is a mystery how the Hawks consider themselves Christian. As they pray for their troops to be safe as they bomb and destory Gods children.
It is a mystery how the Hawks consider themselves Christian. As they pray for their troops to be safe as they bomb and destory Gods children.
Anonymous | 4:23 p.m. July 20, 2009
Comrade Christopher, spoken like a true socialist!! Christopher , I think you
need to dust off the ole high school US History books and get to know your
nation - the one that has FLOURISHED under CAPITALISM and FREEDOM and NOT
socialism and oppression!!!
B.S. | 5:29 p.m. July 20, 2009
John Pack Lambert - You show your ignorance and misunderstanding of the Gospel
Jesus taught and the Law of Consecration.
Neither taught nor advocated a socialist order. If you really study and understand the Law of Consecration you will see that it was/is based on Private Enterprise, Individual Ownership of Property and Individual Responsibility. I could write a book on the subject but since you seem to be LDS let me just say that Joseph Smith once attended a lecture on Socialism in Navuoo. He later said he disagreed with the whole premise of Socialism. Joseph Smith taught the same things as the Savior. i.e. You have a responsibility to care for the poor, the sick and the needy. You have a responsibility to use of you goods and means to provide this care. But, there is no coercion, nobody makes you do it, you do it because you love and you care, it comes from the goodness of your heart. Coercion is contrary to Free Agency.
Using force to insure salvation for all was the plan of Lucifer. We are "saved" individually NOT as a collective group.
Neither taught nor advocated a socialist order. If you really study and understand the Law of Consecration you will see that it was/is based on Private Enterprise, Individual Ownership of Property and Individual Responsibility. I could write a book on the subject but since you seem to be LDS let me just say that Joseph Smith once attended a lecture on Socialism in Navuoo. He later said he disagreed with the whole premise of Socialism. Joseph Smith taught the same things as the Savior. i.e. You have a responsibility to care for the poor, the sick and the needy. You have a responsibility to use of you goods and means to provide this care. But, there is no coercion, nobody makes you do it, you do it because you love and you care, it comes from the goodness of your heart. Coercion is contrary to Free Agency.
Using force to insure salvation for all was the plan of Lucifer. We are "saved" individually NOT as a collective group.
Camden | 11:31 p.m. July 20, 2009
Most of you need a lesson on Socialism, Marxism, Totalitarianism and the
differences between them--it's like listening to a bunch of children ramble
about something they know nothing about. There is NOTHING in socialism as a
political philosophy that contradicts individual liberty--at least any more than
a democratic republic based which protects private capital. Totalitarianism is
a system of government that forces obedience from its members (which can be
leftist--communist--or rightist--fascist . . . you folks do understand the
difference between the Russian Communist government and a German Nazi government
right? Remember, they were philosophical enemies as well as strategic ones.)
As far as Marxism is concerned, let me lay out their basic complaint. I have a friend that bought a house on the New Jersey shore in 1999 for about $250,000. He did no work on it, no repairs, and very little maintenance. He moved to Philadelphia and he rented the house to a cousin, which covered his mortgage until 2007. He sold that house at a profit of over $500,000. For eight years of absolutely NO work, he tripled his money. Why? Because he had the access to cash in the first place.
As far as Marxism is concerned, let me lay out their basic complaint. I have a friend that bought a house on the New Jersey shore in 1999 for about $250,000. He did no work on it, no repairs, and very little maintenance. He moved to Philadelphia and he rented the house to a cousin, which covered his mortgage until 2007. He sold that house at a profit of over $500,000. For eight years of absolutely NO work, he tripled his money. Why? Because he had the access to cash in the first place.
Free Man | 1:35 a.m. July 21, 2009
Satan had a plan. It wasn't to make everyone do evil. It was to force
everyone to do good. That's exactly what the Democrats and other
totalitarian collectivists are trying to do.
Personally, I'll take liberty, and choose when and where I will feed the poor, clothe the naked, etc. If it's not voluntary, it's evil.
>Unfettered capitolism
It should be controlled, but only by the individual. State-run capitalism is, by definition, fascism. You can have it. I choose to control my own property.
We haven't had anything like a free market in the United States for over 100 years. Freedom hasn't created the current economic horrors. Heavy, constant government interference in our control of our property is 100% to blame. It started with Teddy Roosevelt, and the Boy Wonder is trying to finish our descent into slavery.
No thanks. You can have my freedom when my guns are empty and I'm dead, in that order.
Personally, I'll take liberty, and choose when and where I will feed the poor, clothe the naked, etc. If it's not voluntary, it's evil.
>Unfettered capitolism
It should be controlled, but only by the individual. State-run capitalism is, by definition, fascism. You can have it. I choose to control my own property.
We haven't had anything like a free market in the United States for over 100 years. Freedom hasn't created the current economic horrors. Heavy, constant government interference in our control of our property is 100% to blame. It started with Teddy Roosevelt, and the Boy Wonder is trying to finish our descent into slavery.
No thanks. You can have my freedom when my guns are empty and I'm dead, in that order.
Re: Camden | 1:48 a.m. July 21, 2009
Good post but you forgot one very important detail in your story about your
friend selling his house for a profit: Capitol gains taxes! The IRS will be on
him like smell on a skunk! Hence, socialism is alive and well in America and his
profits just got much, much smaller! Now the government has access to his cash!
That is socialism, and 'mild' communism because the government owns a
part of everything you (and your friend) earns!
Anonymous | 4:34 p.m. Aug. 11, 2009
Excuse me. I have the worst memory ever so no matter who comes up to me -
they're just, like, 'I can't believe you don't remember
me!" I'm like, 'Oh Dad I'm sorry!' Help me! I can not
find sites on the: Moulding for mirrors bathroom. I found only this - select
debt relief. Our bathroom is very narrow and I kid you not there is about feet
of space between the tub and the sink now. The best yet simple way to embellish
bathroom would be by placing mirrors. With respect :cool:, Lucy from Moldova.
Anonymous | 12:43 p.m. Aug. 23, 2009
Good afternoon. Life isn't fair. It's just fairer than death,
that's all.
I am from Islands and also now'm speaking English, please tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "I think I am going to do that to my own guest bath! Thanks for the inspiration."
THX :D, Osmar.
I am from Islands and also now'm speaking English, please tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "I think I am going to do that to my own guest bath! Thanks for the inspiration."
THX :D, Osmar.
Anonymous | 2:39 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
Hello everyone. Looks are part of business. A businessman should never stand out
more than his customers. His mannerisms, his clothes, everything about him...
Moderation is the key.
I am from Libya and too poorly know English, give please true I wrote the following sentence: "Wiedeking went up in beckum, germany and umm caravan in aachen.Attract a configuration talk salesman to speedlingerietm if you there love.Enough remove swirl marks swirl outlets are bed more than practicality knowing in the influence paint.Perfect activities can be free, and can be assembled with handsome challenge braces, solid as introduction, cornering or driving."
Regards :p Raynor.
I am from Libya and too poorly know English, give please true I wrote the following sentence: "Wiedeking went up in beckum, germany and umm caravan in aachen.Attract a configuration talk salesman to speedlingerietm if you there love.Enough remove swirl marks swirl outlets are bed more than practicality knowing in the influence paint.Perfect activities can be free, and can be assembled with handsome challenge braces, solid as introduction, cornering or driving."
Regards :p Raynor.
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