Deseret News | Couples pucker up to make positive point

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Couples pucker up to make positive point

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clear-headed in Clearwater | 6:05 p.m. July 12, 2009

The government should take the property using Eminent Domain and then sell the land to the Scientologists. Exchange one homophobic cult for another. That seems fair.

Just a Question | 6:06 p.m. July 12, 2009

Would you D-News readers take exception if you were told to leave a restaurant because you were reading the Book of Mormon at your table? Would you protest the principle, even though "they can do whatever they want because it's private property"?

John | 6:07 p.m. July 12, 2009

If a church isn't about love than what good is it?

Comments continue below

pack it up | 6:11 p.m. July 12, 2009

You don't want to see gay couples? Don't look, you jerk.

Jeff H in TX | 6:11 p.m. July 12, 2009

Normally you would not see very many gay people at all because gays only represent maybe five percent of the population and always have, no more and no less.
But because of the way church officials reacted, SLC is probably going to see A LOT of gay activity from now on.
Don't want to see? Move off planet Earth.
Gays have always existed, even in the animal kingdom.
It's genetic and it's not going away.
Learn to accept minority differences instead of pretending they don't exist.

City Boy | 6:11 p.m. July 12, 2009

Deeda Seed back in the news.... Performing with Rocky on his desk is old news I guess, time for her to do something else stupid to make news.

kathrin | 6:12 p.m. July 12, 2009

Unless we know how the LDS church would have reacted if a heterosexual couple had made out on church property , we are in no position to judge.

Sam | 6:15 p.m. July 12, 2009

I wish I knew this was being organized. My wife and I were in the area and would have participated.

Tommy Mulder | 6:19 p.m. July 12, 2009

Just what is wrong with kissing another man?

Respect each other | 6:19 p.m. July 12, 2009

If the gays want to be treated equally and respected for their beliefs and lifestyles, they must also learn to respect beliefs and lifestyles of others. they might not have the same beliefs as LDS church but the church has their own property and are not trespassing to others. "Live and Let Live".

Cynder | 6:20 p.m. July 12, 2009

I get the argument that it is private property. Gays should follow the rules.
Except that Mormons and other bigots seem to extend their rule to include the sidewalk, the schools, the library and even my home.

Your personal beliefs are as offensive to me as I am to you.

Rebel Yell | 6:22 p.m. July 12, 2009

To the first poster, Anonymous:

If you don't want to see gay couples, then just don't go out in public. We are everywhere, and we're not about to go away-

rogerma | 6:23 p.m. July 12, 2009

I'm sure that Jesus and his apostles, emmbraced and gave each other kisses, on the cheek, when they greeted or said goodbye. Men in different cultures act in different ways. Why isn't the LDS accepting and knowledgable of this?

Lee | 6:24 p.m. July 12, 2009

Kiss kiss. Smooch smooch. Gay kiss. Straight kiss.

Gay hug. Straight hug.

To anonymous 4:26 | 6:24 p.m. July 12, 2009

Yes, that is wrong. Unless you just never leave your own house. You don't have the right for us not to exist.

Sassy | 6:25 p.m. July 12, 2009

It did not prove anything,just that people are crude, rude,lewd,vulgar and have no class whether they are straight or gay.Those kinds displays are meant for the bedroom.Just good old fashioned morals and common sense will tell you that.I personally believe if man was meant to be with man or woman with woman it would be just one or the other sex created.I also do not buy into the bisexual thing.Gay means you are with the same sex ,bisexual just means you will take sex any way you can get it.You have a right to your beliefs and I have a right to mine. So do NOT tell me I am discriminating! I am NOT discriminating any more than you discriminate against me for my beliefs.

to anon @ 4:26 | 6:26 p.m. July 12, 2009

Hang in there dude & live the good life. If you do, there won't be any gay couples where you end up.

Big Dave | 6:28 p.m. July 12, 2009

This is ridiculous. Every year you have someone loons trying to break into a temple or going on temple square and doing things that they know are not allowed on church property. Once again it comes to the same ole thing - GAYS feel they can FORCE their values on others and have NO RESPECT of others and their values. It's like a Nazi going into a Jewish Sinagog and marching around with posters of Hitler and then complaining after getting tossed out on the steet that their freedom of speech was violated. Gays want tolerance but offer NONE to any one else. With Gays it's always "we're right and you are wrong so deal with it".

re:How sad | 6:36 p.m. July 12, 2009

It would be well worth your time to "first" try to understand what the LDS Church's views are on homosexuality before passing wrongful judgement. The Church invites any and all homosexuals into full church activity as long as they DON'T cross the line into sexual debauchery and yes even kissing is sexual especially betten two men or two women. The LDS Church follows the exact same rules of conduct as the Catholic and Baptist church's regarding homosexuality and also the same as those taught in the New Testament by the Apostle Paul.

A little honesty here? | 6:38 p.m. July 12, 2009

Did the 35 people who walked around the reflecting pond start demonstrating, or were they just taking in the sights after their little kissing demonstration? The church needs to start being honest and just come out of the closet and say that they do not want homosexuals showing any amount of affection on church property. It is untrue when they say that kissing of any kind is not allowed. I've kissed my wife on temple grounds and nobody did anything and I've seen lots of photographs of newlywed couples kissing outside of the temple. Until the church can learn to be honest with itself and others and just stick up for what they believe rather than try to play it both ways, they might as well just lock the gate until it all blows over. Somebody is going to have to be offended, but right now the church is offending lots of folks from all walks of life with their "nobody can kiss on temple grounds" garbage.

Todd | 6:38 p.m. July 12, 2009

I am always saddened by the lack of sympathy I see on these discussion boards. A statement like "I just don't want to see gay couples at all" and all of the fear-mongering makes me deeply sad. It seems as though a disciple of Jesus has a duty to try to understand the feelings and situations even of those we disagree with, and to speak and act with love.

Allan Lykins-Scappoose oregon | 6:39 p.m. July 12, 2009

yes it was handled poorly but it IS private property and, to many people, sacred ground. The church has every right to ask for compliance on their own property...but ...the degree of hatred, ignorance and homophobic vitriol spewing forth makes me grieve for the souls of "the rightous"."What you do unto the least of these...." you deserve any judgements your actions bring.

Reality | 6:39 p.m. July 12, 2009

This is the fault of the democratic leadership in SLC.....the Church paid 13 Million to buy the Main Street and later paid for it again when Rocky Anderson thought they didn't pay enough......
Time for the Silent Majority to throw the Democrats out of Office....

The Church owns the property and what the Church does behind closed fences is the Churches own business....I am sick of the Gay Agenda sticking their noses where they are not welcome.....

To protest the gays....I am buying a car from Grandma Garff, and I suggest you join me!

Anonymous | 6:42 p.m. July 12, 2009

You can't teach a pig to sing. Teaching a pig to sing, won't give you a singing pig, only a angry pig.

I'm blessed I live in a city were out Main Thoroughfare belongs equally to all its citizens. Stories, like this make the higher taxes I pay to live in California seen like a small price to be liberated from living in Utah.

Read LDS history. Mormons have never gotten along with others. My Mormon family can't get a long.

ElBorba | 6:42 p.m. July 12, 2009

What's gonna' be really funny, is when this goes to court and the gay couple challenges the church and wins, then you're going to see a kiss-in the likes of which you Mormons have never imagined. I say strip the LDS church of it's status, and treat it like the hateful criminal enterprise which it has always been!!

Anonymous | 6:42 p.m. July 12, 2009

everyone is missing the point on public affection same sex affection is against the churches values and teachings and thats all they should have to say to ask a person to leave their private property. if it fits within their values why should they care. the church will never change their view point on someone's sexual prefence thats against their teachings and why should they. gay is not a race its a choice

Anonymous | 6:43 p.m. July 12, 2009

Let's call it the way it is. Homosexuality is a sin. Period and simple. The plaza is owned by a Church that believes that so. A kiss on the check from a parent to a child is no wrong. Neither between a couple or newlyweds. It is when it's about same gender couple. That falls into improper conduct and the sign outside says don't do that. They did. Security asked them to leave because, according to Church beliefs, it is improper. They did not leave but instead overly reacted. That's when police was called. It's on the newspapers, on the tv, on the media. Now, we have councilpeople, meaning, politicians, as usual, fishing in every single oportunity they have, to gain votes. Don't give me the so "I can't allowed this in my city". It's private property and the owner has the right to allow or dismissed whoever they want. When the Church bought the plaza, I wondered why? but now, I understand and hope, they simply put some gates and keep the sanctity of the House of the Lord. That should be done at all costs.

commentsareus | 6:45 p.m. July 12, 2009

The Real gay agenda; Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Morgan | 6:54 p.m. July 12, 2009

Its Church Property like what others said they think they can do whatever they want, but at least do it on your own land and not others. I think gay should treat our LDS property like how they would treat theirs.

Gadaki | 6:56 p.m. July 12, 2009

So, if I ask someone to leave my property, for whatever reason, and they get argumentative and I have to call the police to have them go, I can expect a city council person to post on Facebook that they need to have a demonstration in front of my house? What is this country coming to?

Clay Forrester | 6:58 p.m. July 12, 2009

Gays predated Christianity and hence will post date
Christianity. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

U.S. Constitutional Analysis | 6:58 p.m. July 12, 2009

If heterosexual couples show identical forms of affection without intervention, then LDS reaction to homosexual couples represents prima facie discrimination. Ironically, the same group that financed Prop 8 in California may, by losing on a U.S. Constitutional discrimination argument, may be responsible for legitimizing homosexual conduct at the federal level.

The (non-Latter Day cosmogonical) universe is not without a sense of humor.

just me | 6:58 p.m. July 12, 2009

in the last days Satan will have control over his dominion---

lance gilchrist | 6:59 p.m. July 12, 2009

The church has the right to dictate behaviour on it's property. That's the reason the main street plaza deal went down in the first place; it enabled us to take rights away from what was a public place. That was our goal, or at least the goal of the church and the city council acting on behalf of their masters. It was a mistake when we did it, and it is being proven so now.

Joanne | 7:09 p.m. July 12, 2009

The only ones that are hurt are the "kissing' partners of the same sex. This is not the way to get approval from anybody. Any public display of affection is just showing others that someone "loves" me. Why don't you love yourself enough to keep personal relationships personal.

Jessica | 7:13 p.m. July 12, 2009

Some people are gay. Get over it!

The world is watching the intollerance of the mormon church. Its not a pretty sight from the other side of the Atlantic.
churches should not force their beliefs on others
using civic law and campaigning for removal of others rights.
Karma has a habit of resiprosity.

Comments R USA | 7:14 p.m. July 12, 2009

The Real Gay Agenda is Life liberty and the pursuit to have their mothers benefits!

The Fact is, Gays already have the same rights as any hetro-sexual male, what they don't have is womens rights?....Period!

rocket scientist?? | 7:19 p.m. July 12, 2009

If I were asked to stop public affection on private property, I might think it a little stupid. But it would still stop without argument. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the owners have the right to allow/or not allow behavior that is consistent with their standards. Homosexual behavior is not consistent with the Church's standards (very well publicized and known fact). And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that when you are asked to leave private property and you don't, then you can be charged with trespassing. I've never quite understood why gays and lesbians feel discriminated against because of their sexuality preferences. There are many studies showing that it is behavioral choices and very rarely biological. So it is not who they are, but what they choose.

Private property | 7:22 p.m. July 12, 2009

Anonymous 6:43: I don't think you should be allowed to kiss your pet either. I do have a question though. Could the church refuse to allow Blacks, Hispanics, other minorities on their property? It is private property after all. I suppose they can but the excuse would be quite lame, just like the kissing excuse was lame. They said that kissing of any kind was "inappropriate" but I've kissed and hugged my wife on temple square, and I've seen wedding photos of newlyweds kissing in front of the temple. Perhaps it would be better for the church to be blunt and just say that same sex kissing is forbidden. Telling falsehoods in order to minimize a situation has just made things worse. My father always told me to tell the truth no matter how painful it might be. Perhaps the church should learn that lesson as well.

straight supporter of gay rights | 7:25 p.m. July 12, 2009

those that argue the gays' rights movement is intolerant of others' beliefs, consider this: how is one supposed to be tolerant of people who do not tolerate you. This is not an issue of reciprocal tolerance, this is an issue of a church trampling on people's freedom to be themselves (without hurting anyone else). Maybe the church was in her legal rights to ask the men to leave their premises, but it was a petty reaction born out of a disrespect for people who are not like them.

Kris | 7:32 p.m. July 12, 2009

Please tell me how pregnant adolescents and old men with multiple young wives are somehow better than gay relationships. The members of LDS share this view with the tribal Arabs in Afghanistan and Pakistan. All of them need to be dragged into the 21st Century before sanctimonious hypocrisy destroys the entire planet. This is America. Mormons are not "more equal" than am I or anyone else. Heterosexuals are not "more equal" than gays. If you don't like that, you are disregarding the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence. America, love it or leave it.

Why comment on here? | 7:32 p.m. July 12, 2009

I always get the biggest kick out of people arguing or bashing on the LDS church on a church-owned newspaper's website.

Re: Jessica - The Mormon church is actually growing from this issue and people respect it more. I take it that you don't like religion because of how much it it pushes its agenda on people. You'll hate the Christ-run theocracy that comes when world ends and the wicked are burned.

Only 60 people? | 7:35 p.m. July 12, 2009

Wait, something surprises me about this. You people could only draw 60 supporters to your demonstration? That sounds like a lot but then you have to factor all the Sunday church attending people in the thousands that went to church today in Utah and who don't really care about your protest. Way to go!

Thomas | 7:38 p.m. July 12, 2009

My feeling on the situation is simply this. Protest what you want when you want but do it on your own property. This is not an issue over discrimination this is a issue of being asked to leave, refusing, police being called, and citations issued for lack of a better word throwing a fit. I am fed up with people on both sides of the issue acting like they have to bad mouth one another and belittle. I am a proud bisexual man and a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. We have common ground focus on that and stop the nonsence I for one am saddened that members of the gay/strait community and members of the church on both sides of the so called "issue" are acting in a way that to a logical person would seem somewhat childish so lets get to the real issues and stop the behavior on both sides.

anonymous | 7:39 p.m. July 12, 2009

Did anyone hear of the tyranny of tolerance? Clearly, this is such a case.

Nicholas | 7:43 p.m. July 12, 2009

Wow. I am always amazed when I read comments on Deseret News articles. To make the argument that a protest only involving kissing (which did not take place on Church property!) qualifies as some kind of persecution is truly, truly insane. I am an LDS member, but come on! The "everyone is out to get us" complex is ridiculous. Most of these arguments are only buttressed by a willful refusal to interpret events as reported.

Church spokesperson Kim Farah made the comment that the two men in question were treated "just as any other couple." This is demonstrably false. She is either lying outright, or betraying ignorance so profound that she has no business working in a public relations capacity.

The two men in question were walking home from a concert, not staging some kind of sexual publicity stunt. They were IN THE PROCESS OF LEAVING the plaza, when stopped by security, who then DETAINED THEM! Had security done nothing, the men would have been off the plaza in half a minute.

And Anonymous, "homosexuality" is NOT "a sin," not even in the most conservative imagination. Homosexual ACTS may be sins, but "homosexuality" merely describes an attraction.

Trent | 7:48 p.m. July 12, 2009

I'll just say this. I have gay friends that I love very much. I may not agree with there decision to act on homosexual tendencies but it is their right and freedom to do so. It is my right and freedom when they come to my house or ranch that they refrain from actions that I don't believe in. I'm not saying that I won't try to make them feel welcome, only that being a true friend goes both ways. They'll respect my deep beliefs at my house and I theirs when I'm a guest at their house. If they don't respect my deep beliefs and offend they would be asked to leave. If they refused they would also be charged with trespassing. Maybe the Church should close the easement to the public and let it's members enjoy the beauty.

Interesting | 7:58 p.m. July 12, 2009

It's interesting how 35 people protesting makes the news. I remember driving by the SL court house a few years ago a say the news crew filming 5 people protesting something. Later that night on the news they that news channel overplayed the turnout. "Many came to..." It shows you how desperate the news channels are for attention. I really wish they'd report of something worthwhile. Two men kissing and getting kicked out is funny but not newsworthy.

Outsider | 8:00 p.m. July 12, 2009

I don't get the complaints here at all. It was private property. If you go on private property you sure better be willing to accept the rules for that property or you shouldn't be there. It sounds to me like the "kissing couple" was out of line from the start and then further escalated a situation they caused. Who would go to a church to make out?...come on.

Michael | 8:16 p.m. July 12, 2009

Two guys 20 feet to the sidewalk walking off the plaza give each other a kiss - 10 pm at night on the way home from a concert - get handcuffed by private rent a cops and pushed to the floor - overreaction at best, assault causing injury at worst - get a sense of proportion, this is not good folks.

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6 photos

Brendan Sullivan, Deseret News

Frank Armstrong, left, Daniel Lara, former Salt Lake Councilwoman Deeda Seed and Laura Bradford take part in "kiss-in'' Sunday near Main Street Plaza.

Gallery (6 photos)