Deseret News | Couples pucker up to make positive point

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Couples pucker up to make positive point

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Pete | 5:13 p.m. July 12, 2009

Are gay's deaf and dumb. Don't they understand what it means to stay off of private property? Hello

Elisabeth | 5:13 p.m. July 12, 2009

If this were a Muslim group which owned the streets near a mosque, I guarantee a huge portion of the conservatives/LDS/homophobes here would do a complete about-face and instead of screaming about 'private property' would be all impassioned about separation of church and state and free expression.

cityprof | 5:14 p.m. July 12, 2009

Thank God I didn't grow up in the LDS church. I grew up in a church that was full of love and all welcoming to everyone. The doors were open around the clock so that anyone of any faith could go inside and pray and commune. If such an incident such as two men or two women kissing had occurred on church property, the minister would not have called the police but may have sat down with the couple for a little talk about appropriate behavior in the Lord's house. My church still struggles with homosexuality and how to treat them, but it is not a struggle with hate. All outreach is full of love. Remember Christ's love was unconditional.

I feel so sorry and some pity for those in the LDS that do not know that love must be there for everyone, and even and especially for those it's hardest to love. Would Christ have called the police? I don't think so.

Comments continue below

Anonymous2 | 5:14 p.m. July 12, 2009

I just don't want to see any children at all.

Is that so wrong?

Anonymous | 5:16 p.m. July 12, 2009

If the same thing happened to a couple holding hands while walking on Liberty University's campus, because the husband is black and the wife is white, would that be ok too? Private property.

Rights | 5:16 p.m. July 12, 2009

So are signs posted that say you are leaving PUBLIC property and entering PRIVATE property where all your constitutional rights are now no longer available? The 14th amendment means equal protection under the law. Why is religion a protected class (and it is entirely a choice) but being LGBT is not? What about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Only available to LDS members?

Cold Beer | 5:17 p.m. July 12, 2009

It just goes to show you how pitifully scared the LDS are of Gay folks. It's sad really. Really, the rest of the world doesn't really care if they held hands and gave one another a peck on the cheek. Good grief it's 2009. Oh, I forgot, it's Utah.

Indie Voice | 5:17 p.m. July 12, 2009

BAD PR for " The Church". Not worth the public scrutiny. Perception outside the state will continue to be one which will damage reality.

Paul | 5:20 p.m. July 12, 2009

Gay people, like all minorities, are part of the population. This incident, if one can call it that, occurred in the downtown area of a major American city. If you don't want to see gay people, buy a cave and disappear from civilized society.

They started it... | 5:20 p.m. July 12, 2009

The LDS church will finish it. These yahoos had no business to be on church grounds let alone kiss. The church had every right to enforce God's law!

Straight Mike from Philly | 5:20 p.m. July 12, 2009

Typically, the most vocal and outspoken homophobes are really closeted gays themselves....so come on out of your closets people

J. Smith | 5:22 p.m. July 12, 2009

I don't want to see judgmental bigots hiding behind their religion.

Is that so wrong?

Naomi Stein | 5:23 p.m. July 12, 2009

Reminds me of the scene in Religulous when the mormon fuzz tell Bill and crew to get off the property. Religion = always afraid that a crack will lead to a torrent of reason and be the end of the superstition.

Are we out of our minds? | 5:27 p.m. July 12, 2009

So I guess the guards would have thrown out Jesus when Judas gave Him the kiss.

Circus | 5:28 p.m. July 12, 2009

Yet again,! Clowns acting out thinking its funny.
I think it gone beyond a joke for these turkeys, they should go and grandstand in front of the white house lawn, maybe then they will get good serious publicity.
The mentality of these people are very childish, and to think that they want to be taken seriously,..get real!!

Anonymous | 5:29 p.m. July 12, 2009

I think that the LDS Church should not be allowed to buy these properties where they are going to dictate to others how to behave. Streets and walkways should be government owned so all kinds of lifestyles will be permitted. Utah has a real problem separating church and state. Church seems to be heavy handed. All the more reason not to elect Romney.

SLC City take property back | 12 | 5:34 p.m. July 12, 2009

Well, if you knew your history, the church was here first own the land outright, donated the land to the city for a street and then had to pay 5 million to buy it back.

Selling out? Whatever, know your history, and leave the church alone. Or simple head N, S, E, or W and leave utah for good.

I am sick of people who try to force the this state to change the laws/lifestyle just because they are use to a different way of life. You choose to live here, therefore live by the stands that has been apart of the culture since it was established.

Ryan | 5:34 p.m. July 12, 2009

If I saw two gays holding hands and kissing on my property, I'd tell them to leave too.
I'm sure there's more to the story than just two gays holding hands and kissing on the cheek

CHris | 5:35 p.m. July 12, 2009

I do not care who you love. Love all for who they are and if you sleep with a woman or a man who cares as long as the parties are consenting adults and they are happy I say go for it.

Underdog | 5:37 p.m. July 12, 2009

Mormonism is a cult.

pjkool | 5:37 p.m. July 12, 2009

The gay community is everywhere. Mostly college educated, we are the teachers, doctors, nurses, lawers, engineers and many other professions that make America what it is. Education=money=power. We aren't going away.

Cats | 5:38 p.m. July 12, 2009

The Church shouldn't have to put up with "in-your-face" behavior from anyone on Church property. That's the bottom line. This is sacred ground and no one should have the right to come there and engage in this kind of behaviour--especially in view of children and others who come there for spiritual enrichment.

I have no sympathy for the gay political agenda. Any amount of sympathy I may have for them as individuals is fading fast.

Sanity | 5:38 p.m. July 12, 2009

Do what you want. Just do it away from me.

David Blimmo | 5:38 p.m. July 12, 2009

I look forward to the day when we tear down and burn ALL churches, temples, mosques, Synagogues, and all other monuments to ignorance, stupidity, hate and superstition. We got rid of religion/superstition in posy WWII Japan, and we can do it legally here:

1. Require that all religious/superstitious cult leaders provide credible scientific evidence to support their claims or to admit that they are lying.

2. Under our existing truth in advertising laws, prosecute for criminal fraud all religious/superstitious cult leaders who are unable to provide credible scientific evidence to support their claims.

3. Require all schools, public and private, to teach all known scientific, archeological, historical, psychological, sociological facts regarding all the major religions/superstitions.

4. Make it felony child abuse for any person or organization to indoctrinate any minor child into any delusional belief system.

Davvid | 5:38 p.m. July 12, 2009

The private property argument is moot. This is why there was a PROTEST and not a LAWSUIT. Rights were not violated. That doesn't necessarily mean the church security acted appropriately.

somethingorother | 5:40 p.m. July 12, 2009

I used to live in SLC, but moved because I was tired of all the tolerance I received there. I wish I had been welcomed and respected rather than simply tolerated. I got tired of all the "disappointment" I caused by being comfortable with my spiritual beliefs.

So before decrying the lack of respect the LGBT community shows your church (and keep a sense of perspective here...there were only 60 people today, protesting the treatment of two people), I suggest that you search your own hearts and evaluate your own actions to determine if you are loving unconditionally and leaving the judgment for God, or if you are only being tolerant.

I leave you with this quote "Most men worry about their own bellies, and other people's souls, when we all ought to be worried about our own souls, and other people's bellies." --Rabbi Israel Salanter 1810-1883

Dave | 5:40 p.m. July 12, 2009

Why can't people respect private property? The LDS Church owns the property and can establish its standards for its use. If someone violates church policy then the police come in to handle the situation.

The same would be true for my personal property. If a couple showed up on my front lawn, strangers for that matter, and kissed or showed intimate behavior, I would ask them to leave and if they refused I would call police. I think any private property owner would do the same.

So gays are simply trying to again force their agenda upon us. The issue here is not even public displays of affection. The issue is the rights of a property owner to actually own its property!

I am so tired of the gay community.

Dave | 5:41 p.m. July 12, 2009

Is the "gay agenda" like that pesky "women's agenda" a few years back? Man, we have to stop handing out equal rights like candy...between this and the complexion of the PA pool club, I feel like America went in a backwards time warp.

Lurpy | 5:43 p.m. July 12, 2009

Question for the LDS people here: Which do you think is going to hurt the church more--allowing a guy to kiss his partner on the cheek in an area where light PDAs are commonplace, or furthering your organization's image as bigoted, hateful, and discriminatory?

California boy: I've never had a gay guy try to convert me to homosexuality. I have had an LDS missionary try to convert me to the Church. I don't begrudge the missionary--we actually had a good conversation about our respective philosophies--but if you're going to claim that gays are "trying to force their lifestyle on the rest of the world," you may want to stop your church from doing the same thing. Remove the beam in thine own eye, and all that.

Davvid | 5:45 p.m. July 12, 2009

Am I correct if I say that anyone that preaches tolerance is immediately a hypocrite because of their intolerance of those who are intolerant?

Ms. Marple | 5:45 p.m. July 12, 2009

Yes, please explain to me again about how gays are destroying your marriage. I suppose they forced John Ensign to cheat on his wife and then try to pay her off and sent Mark Sanford out on the Appalachian Trail to Argentina. The Mormon church is just Scientology with a choir and a lot more hypocrisy!

anon6129 | 5:45 p.m. July 12, 2009

The LDS Church should have never been "allowed" to purchase that property and this is exactly why. It makes me sick.

Stu Cohen | 5:46 p.m. July 12, 2009

WOW. No wonder Utah has the reputation it does. What a bunch of narrow minded scary people.

Good on the LGBT folk who have the courage to live there with these bigoted folks.

It's going to get scarier and scarier for them as our country becomes more and more diverse. I feel so sorry for the children growing up with these attitudes. They will be left behind. Pathetic.

Mainstream American | 5:46 p.m. July 12, 2009

Sounds like the Church of LDS can dish it out but not take it. If they're going to incite ugly and ignorant behavior amongst their flock, they should expect a backlash eventually from the community. You can only pump out toxic ideas into a society so long before people take notice and do something about it.

Lurpy | 5:47 p.m. July 12, 2009

Yes, the Church has the right to make rules for their private property, even with public access. But applying those rules differently to certain groups is the definition of discrimination. If the Vatican were to say that LDS couples visiting St. Peter's Square were not allowed to hold hands or show affection, there would likely--and rightly--be an uproar over the discriminatory treatment of one particular group. So why is it okay for the LDS church to do the same thing to the gay community?

Jess | 5:49 p.m. July 12, 2009

I've tried to be understanding and open minded regarding homosexuals but their tactics are so confrontational and provocative and mean spirited, my efforts are undermined by the very people that want my understanding. Be good citizens and respectful and stop trying to annoy your neighbors and perhaps you will get something accomplished.

Kris | 5:50 p.m. July 12, 2009

This gay couple is facing the same type of bigotry that faced inter-racial couples back in the 1960s. Mormons (of all people) should be cautions about criticizing the relationships of others, living as they do in their glass houses. They pretend to "protect marriage," but their history of polygamy and child brides and pregnant 13-year olds belie their actions. God save us all from these True Believers, the American version of the Taliban. SLC should declare this area a public zone where all are treated equally. Tax exemptions for organized bigotry is UnAmerican. Revoke the tax status of LDS, and see how quickly they embrace the American idea that all are created equally.

Dr. Shelly Boyd phd. | 5:50 p.m. July 12, 2009

To "ANONMYMOUS"...At Least I put My Name To My POST! Are You HYPOCRITICAL, to say such a Bigott ed thing, & HIDE? WHAT Are YOU "Married to a Man With FOUR or FIVE OTHER WIVEs, Or Are You A Man Who Has Muultiple Wives?
These "Mainstream Mormons, they are KEENLY "WARE Of Those Who Are PRACTICING POLYGAMISTS, YET do THEY NOT "Allow these POLYGAMISTS SHELTER&'TURN THEIR CHEEK TO THEIR (terrible)SUBJUGATION of WOMEN?! Of COURSE THEY DO!
I'll KISS MY LIFE-PARTNER "ANYWHERE WE WISH TO KISS"! If Ya Don't *LIKE IT, TURN YOUR CHEEK,+Don'T LOOK! YOU BIGOTTED, UNINFORMED, BRAINWASHED BUNCH of HYPOCRITs...You OUGHT TO "KNOW WHAT it Is LIKE TO *WALK IN THE SHOES OF a HOMOSEXUAL,FOR AWHILE!!
I WILL,WITH ALL My LESBIAN-HEART,PRAY 4 You SAD EXCUSES FOR HUMAN BEINGs!
Dr.Shelly Boyd,phd.

Open Minded | 5:53 p.m. July 12, 2009

Wow, I'm seeing tons of Utah homophobes. You inbred fools need to see the world a little bit. You clothe your bigotry by pinning it on private property rights. Bullsquat! While the law might protect LDS and their discrimination, that doesn't make it right. If it didn't have to do with homosexuality, let's say a restaurant kicked a bunch of people out because they could be overheard talking about their Mormon faith, there's no way you'd all be praying to the god of private property and excusing the rudeness. Flippin' inbreds, stop believing in your dumbass Mormon fairy tales and enlighten yourselves.

Kevin | 5:53 p.m. July 12, 2009

"Anonymous" posted at 12:51 (above) makes the essential point. LDS couples often use the square to engage in considerable displays of affection, without being busted. The anger reported from the gay couple who were harassed is a natural reaction to the security guard's offensive over-reaction. Two gay men holding hands and kissing on the cheek is offensive only to homophobic bigots.
Also, there's a real issue here re. whether the LDS church can claim such control over a stretch of property which is open to public access - clearly, a judge needs to sort this out - or the City needs a better agreement with the church.
To this straight, married guy (not LDS) I just wish we could have been at this kiss-in, sounds like fun to me. I like kissing my wife . . .
And yes, I still plan to be polite the next (inevitable) time that LDS missionaries appear at my door.
The LDS Church needs to evolve, as they already have in dropping their overt bigotry towards folks of (recent) African descent. It only took them until 1978 to realize that ALL of us are of African descent.

Yikes | 5:55 p.m. July 12, 2009

Holding hands and smooching! Now that's a political agenda. C'mon Mormons (I'm one, too). They weren't rolling all over the place. I wasn't there, but I have a lot more to worry about than a kiss. What if two macho native Italian (straight) guys ran into each other and gave the traditional smooch...would they be picking prunes in Palermo now? Get a life, Salt Lake.

Robert | 5:56 p.m. July 12, 2009

As a gay man, I could not be more annoyed at how the gay community handles... anything. That couple that got handcuffed, they were told to leave, and didn't. They assumed it was because they were gay, when they don't know if the security would have that policy with a straight couple, so how would they know? Then this protest? Really? Is that a joke! Does the gay community do anything that isn't childish anymore? This is just... stupid. Being a gay couple does not mean you are above the law, and I thank those security officers and the LDS community for actually trying to hold them to it.

George Wines | 5:58 p.m. July 12, 2009

Didn't the LDS church recently hire a major NYC PR firm to suggest ways so that Americans would like the Mormons more? What was church security thinking? 10PM in the evening, the two guys were the only people on the walk-through plaza. What were they hurting? The PR firm may want to consider returning the
check...

HifiDuke | 5:58 p.m. July 12, 2009

Ditto on SLDrone!

Bill Baumgardner Sr. | 5:58 p.m. July 12, 2009

I find it amazing that these same people are FOR the hate crime law, which is a law to control our thoughts. Well, I have to say that the only reason these two persons would kiss where they did is to use their thoughts to disrupt the serenity near the Lord's Property, so they committed a hate crime. Right? Oh, I forgot, these people also back abortion, but fight capitol punishment. So how do you deal with 1/2 wits like this? I know, but I can not post my real feelings here. It would be a hate crime. :)

Jack | 6:01 p.m. July 12, 2009

For those of you who hold the church "innocent" in this relationship. How often has the church invaded gay and lesbian territory--political territory--and invested member money and time in fighting them? In doing what it can to determine what rights they can and can't have? This--a person's life--is personal terrain. This--an individual's rights--is private property. The church has never restrained itself in trespassing onto that property and being active and loud and belligerent in "protesting" what it wants. When gays start to tell church members what rights they can and cannot have, then you people may have an argument. When gays start showing up on Temple Square and protesting against polygamy, or Wonder Bread for sacrament, then you may have a legitimate gripe. At least you'll know what real "trespassing" feels like. In the meantime, if the church can't keep its nose out of other people's business, it doesn't have a leg to stand on when people decide to respond. Stop holding the church innocent. Stop the victim nonsense.

I like this forum | 6:02 p.m. July 12, 2009

I commented and expressed my views and opinions on this matter on SLtrib.com. I was bombarded with insults and irrational arguments because I sided with the church's obligation to stand up for it's beliefs and property. This is a lot better to hear people actually supporting the CORRECT actions taken by the LDS security.

squire4 | 6:04 p.m. July 12, 2009

Hypocrisy is the fundamental tenet, it seems, of LDS people.

Praise Him | 6:04 p.m. July 12, 2009

This is a typical gay-organized agitation tactic that has gone on here in California for many years.
It does not help their cause, but only annoys those of use who get sick of them with "in-your-face arrogance. This happens in places like Disneyland too. Kudos to the L.D.S. church for sticking up for standards that I as a Protestant Christian also follow.

Colorado Cougar | 6:05 p.m. July 12, 2009

Took my wife and children to the Temple Square Plaza last Sunday. We had a great time, and no we didn't see any gays kissing. It would have taken away from the sacredness of the experience. Thank you LDS Church for standing up for our beliefs and standards. Yes, some of us, LDS and non-LDS alike, do believe gay lifestyle is contrary to the commandments of God. I just pray the Church leaders don't cave to the gay mafia and willing accomplices in the media.

For those goons who say the LDS Church needs to respect others, it does. When I was on a mission in the Philippines, we were forbidden to preach to Muslims. In Israel the Church forbids it's members from discussing the gospel. The fact is, the Church respects the laws and cultures of the land.

Go to any Church property (BYU, meeting houses) and exhibit gay PDA (or other unacceptable behavior, i.e. not wearing a shirt), you will be asked to stop. If you don't, the police will be called and you will be cited for trespassing. Pretty Simple!!

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6 photos

Brendan Sullivan, Deseret News

Frank Armstrong, left, Daniel Lara, former Salt Lake Councilwoman Deeda Seed and Laura Bradford take part in "kiss-in'' Sunday near Main Street Plaza.

Gallery (6 photos)