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LDS seminary principal is arrested in sexual abuse
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bryan. | 10:01 p.m. July 12, 2009
he was an amazing teacher i cant believe he would do something like that he
changed me.. best seminary teacher to ever live
Paulette | 10:29 p.m. July 12, 2009
People- please read what others have written before posting. There's a
overwhelming number of "He that is without sin..." and
""innocent until proven guilty" references, so try to be a little
more original if you have something to add. We get it!
If he was innocent... | 11:05 p.m. July 12, 2009
why did he invoke his right to an attorney?
Comments continue below
Justin | 12:08 a.m. July 13, 2009
Matt,
Please! Most sinners are good people with good intentions. I truly believe that, with the exception of very few, most of mankind is made up of good people with bad habits. Is that not why we are here? And while sin corrupts good men and makes them bad at times, it also allows them (and all of us) to make the necessary changes to help us progress from good, although fallen men (read mankind)to great, even exalted. The atonement will cover all those who choose to take it upon themselves. I pray that Michael can truly accept this gift and that all those affected, afflicted and hurt by him and these acts can too.
Please! Most sinners are good people with good intentions. I truly believe that, with the exception of very few, most of mankind is made up of good people with bad habits. Is that not why we are here? And while sin corrupts good men and makes them bad at times, it also allows them (and all of us) to make the necessary changes to help us progress from good, although fallen men (read mankind)to great, even exalted. The atonement will cover all those who choose to take it upon themselves. I pray that Michael can truly accept this gift and that all those affected, afflicted and hurt by him and these acts can too.
Row Row Row your boat | 12:33 a.m. July 13, 2009
Why is this guy smiling in the booking mug?
Hmm... | 1:14 a.m. July 13, 2009
I find it very interesting that the vast majority of individuals posting
sympathetic or positive comments actually know this man. And, those who claim
no relationship, are posting the majority of apathetic and negative comments.
anonymous | 7:37 a.m. July 13, 2009
I am suprised that he could do such a thing, this man has helped many of his
students better their lives and come closer to the church. He(along with some
friends) helped me to overcome my depression and realize that i am a good
person. Hearing this will make many doubt their faith in the gospel. I am very
upset that he would do something like this.
headouttathesand | 7:38 a.m. July 13, 2009
Regarding comments about "innocent until proven guilty" I agree with
the person who commented that that refers to not locking someone up without due
process.
The kid with chocolate on his face is likely the cookie thief. As parents with children to protect, when serious charges such as these are brought, thinking people are allowed to come to their own conclusions, which will not deny this man his day in court.
More distrubing to me is those who refuse to believe it could be possible, even in the face of some pretty serious evidence, based on their friendship with him or their admiration of him.
Sometimes bishops or church leaders do not deal with something serious that they could head off at the pass because they do not want to believe such-and-such of so-and-so. None of us WANT to believe it. I'm sure his wife doesn't want to believe it. There was enough evidence for the Church to relieve him of his position. They didn't wait for the court to deliver a verdict. They judged. A little well-placed discernment can be a good thing. Don't judge me for judging.
The kid with chocolate on his face is likely the cookie thief. As parents with children to protect, when serious charges such as these are brought, thinking people are allowed to come to their own conclusions, which will not deny this man his day in court.
More distrubing to me is those who refuse to believe it could be possible, even in the face of some pretty serious evidence, based on their friendship with him or their admiration of him.
Sometimes bishops or church leaders do not deal with something serious that they could head off at the pass because they do not want to believe such-and-such of so-and-so. None of us WANT to believe it. I'm sure his wife doesn't want to believe it. There was enough evidence for the Church to relieve him of his position. They didn't wait for the court to deliver a verdict. They judged. A little well-placed discernment can be a good thing. Don't judge me for judging.
opinionated | 9:10 a.m. July 13, 2009
i think the point that has been made of support to brother pratt is that of
support of what he has done in the past. he has helped countless children who
have lost their way, that is where his support comes from. i dont think anyone
out there supports this behavior if it is proven to be true. given there was
another teacher (not seminary) who was aquitted of similar charges last month i
can understand the "innocent until proven guilty" comments. attacking
the lds faith because of this man is uncalled for. i guess if that is the way
it is the catholics should also be attacked and lumped together because of a
bunch of perverted priests. should every democrat be called bad because ted
kennedy left a girl for dead after a horrific accident so long ago? how about
every republican because of senator ensign from nevada? this seems like a case
of tunnel thinking. no one likes this behavior if true. let him stand up and
answer to the charges. if he is found guilty he will pay the price. the
statement from the LDS church certainly did not back him. that says a lot to me.
awsomeron | 9:15 a.m. July 13, 2009
You guys have really gone wild on this topic. I know that there are more Post
when the S word is mentioned then any other time. Remember Mormons, Titillation
is considered a Sin. Even if you post with a Anon user name. God will find
you.
I tend to agree with the Girls Dad, Except that its out now. I feel bad for the couple, not so much for the Victim because of the "Consent Part" a couple of years more and this would not even be a case. Except for the Violation of the Trust Issue.
Who says skinny dipping is a night thing.
"Grooming" usually involves younger kids and usually young boys in an effort for the Pedophile to get them not to tell. "Grooming is out of place in this" There are whole Online Books on the subject.
If anything manipulation would fit, perhaps on the part of both, but the adult holds the responsibility.
This is not the churches fault and does not in anyway go beyond this one man. 99.9 percent of LDS Instructors are outstanding members. It is safe to send your Princess or Prince, the Frogs will not Bother them.
I tend to agree with the Girls Dad, Except that its out now. I feel bad for the couple, not so much for the Victim because of the "Consent Part" a couple of years more and this would not even be a case. Except for the Violation of the Trust Issue.
Who says skinny dipping is a night thing.
"Grooming" usually involves younger kids and usually young boys in an effort for the Pedophile to get them not to tell. "Grooming is out of place in this" There are whole Online Books on the subject.
If anything manipulation would fit, perhaps on the part of both, but the adult holds the responsibility.
This is not the churches fault and does not in anyway go beyond this one man. 99.9 percent of LDS Instructors are outstanding members. It is safe to send your Princess or Prince, the Frogs will not Bother them.
Prudence | 9:39 a.m. July 13, 2009
It is the policy of the church to terminate its association with ANYONE upon the
allegation of sexually oriented criminal charges. Mr. Pratt's firing has
nothing to do with the church's belief that he is, or is not, guilty.
As to Mr. Pratt's invocation of his right to attorney, there is nothing suspicious or revealing about that at all. These are clearly serious charges, and he would have been foolish to ignore his rights.
This is not to say that he is innocent, or that he is guilty; it is simply a call to not read too much into matters of procedure and prudence.
As to Mr. Pratt's invocation of his right to attorney, there is nothing suspicious or revealing about that at all. These are clearly serious charges, and he would have been foolish to ignore his rights.
This is not to say that he is innocent, or that he is guilty; it is simply a call to not read too much into matters of procedure and prudence.
Anonymous | 9:40 a.m. July 13, 2009
Why don't we all just wait and see what happens? We will most likely never
know the whole truth because it probably lies somewhere in them middle. It
sickens me when anyone uses their authority to manipulate, abuse their
authority, or even justify their actions.
Anonymous | 10:01 a.m. July 13, 2009
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Praying for all those involved.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Praying for all those involved.
Fellow CES Teacher | 10:02 a.m. July 13, 2009
This guy obviously broke all kinds of CES rules to name a few:
1. Avoid being alone with anyone of the opposite gender, other than your spouse.
2. When visiting with students, avoid long counseling sessions and rooms without clear windows in the doors.
3. Avoid inappropriate physical contact with any student, parent, secretary, or faculty member, or otherwise giving undue attention in a way that could be misinterpreted by that person or cause speculation or rumor.
If he did it or not he broke some major rules that are ment to keep these things from happening. Keep the small rules and the big ones rarly apply.
1. Avoid being alone with anyone of the opposite gender, other than your spouse.
2. When visiting with students, avoid long counseling sessions and rooms without clear windows in the doors.
3. Avoid inappropriate physical contact with any student, parent, secretary, or faculty member, or otherwise giving undue attention in a way that could be misinterpreted by that person or cause speculation or rumor.
If he did it or not he broke some major rules that are ment to keep these things from happening. Keep the small rules and the big ones rarly apply.
Craziness | 10:17 a.m. July 13, 2009
I feel VERY SORRY for the 16 year old girl. Reading this post and looking to
what she is up against with some of you LDS people is frightful.
Anonymous | 10:24 a.m. July 13, 2009
Don't give us that "innocent until proven guilty" nonsense.
Evidence?
LDS Church Spokesperson, Kim Farah said, "The church terminated Michael Pratt's employment as soon as allegations surfaced and immediately reported the matter to law enforcement."
The Church had enough reason to believe the allegations that THEY contacted police!
"Police discovered hundreds of text messages, several of which were sexually explicit and included references to genitalia."
The affidavit lists too much detail. There is too much evidence that Pratt did this.
The corruption in the Church occurs when people blindly insist that “good people” in leadership callings “could not possibly do such things”! Your blind faith in your leaders is dangerous and immoral.
Evidence?
LDS Church Spokesperson, Kim Farah said, "The church terminated Michael Pratt's employment as soon as allegations surfaced and immediately reported the matter to law enforcement."
The Church had enough reason to believe the allegations that THEY contacted police!
"Police discovered hundreds of text messages, several of which were sexually explicit and included references to genitalia."
The affidavit lists too much detail. There is too much evidence that Pratt did this.
The corruption in the Church occurs when people blindly insist that “good people” in leadership callings “could not possibly do such things”! Your blind faith in your leaders is dangerous and immoral.
lump them all in? | 10:27 a.m. July 13, 2009
so should we now lump all LDS people into the same heap with this guy? It is a
favorite ploy of the far right when it comes to these boards.
Pirate6 | 10:34 a.m. July 13, 2009
As a father of 3 girls, I detest anyone who would use their postion of trust to
take advantage of someone. That said, it is not for us to judge others. The
courts are established to dole out civil justice and the church has its own
means of dealing with transgression. Neither is perfect, nor are any of us. Take
care of your own house. Teach your children the principles you would have them
live by. But understand that we all have our free agency and consequently must
answer for our decisons and our choices.
Let he who.. | 10:35 a.m. July 13, 2009
...can think of nothing else to say, refrain from that trite, tedious, over-used
quote.
This arrest is the product of much research. He may not have been proven guilty yet in court, but seems like Mormons are quick to give this guy a chance. Why? Because he was a mormon seminary teacher? That doesn't make him any better or worse than any other man alive.
I say throw away the key.
Alan
This arrest is the product of much research. He may not have been proven guilty yet in court, but seems like Mormons are quick to give this guy a chance. Why? Because he was a mormon seminary teacher? That doesn't make him any better or worse than any other man alive.
I say throw away the key.
Alan
Cautionary Tale | 10:39 a.m. July 13, 2009
Let this be a cautionary tale. The most important thing I think we can glean
from this tragedy is that all of those "dumb" little rules you
don't think you need to keep are there for a reason. Not getting
emotionally involved with students, not being alone with the opposite sex, not
putting yourself in compromising positions. All of those things that seem so
inconsequential sometimes do escalate into something major, like this did.
Don't walk on the edge, don't dance near the flame.
I am so sorry for the victim and her family, and for the other victims - the family of the perpetrator.
I am so sorry for the victim and her family, and for the other victims - the family of the perpetrator.
annonymous | 10:43 a.m. July 13, 2009
I think it's important to remember that what happened was consensual. The
girl was not faultless either. They both made very poor choices and because
Pratt was in a position of authority and he is older, he will have to pay higher
consequences. But the girl is old enough to know what she was doing as well. So
everyone saying that they pity the girl...it was her choice too. Why don't
we all pray for both families....including Michael Pratt...that what is fair and
right will happen for both and that they BOTH will be able to turn their lives
around and fix some choices that were obviously hurtful and horrible for BOTH
families. The girl was not the "victim" here. She consented. She
allowed it to happen as well.
anonymous part 2 | 10:54 a.m. July 13, 2009
2.As a survivor of sexual abuse in my youth, I can say that the most charismatic
people are oftentimes the most dangerous! While reading all of the comments by
former students I have been wondering why so few of you found it suspicious that
he was so close to so many of his students…I realize that good teachers do
become involved with students that are going through difficult times, but that
relationship should NEVER be taken outside of the school. There is no reason
that a teacher should be TEXTING, CALLING, or having MEETINGS with a student
when there aren’t other adults within easy sight or hearing…there
should always be at least one other person of authority who knows if an
instructor is alone with a student.
anonymous part 3 | 10:55 a.m. July 13, 2009
3.While the “He that is without sin” adage is a great thought,
ALMOST EVERYONE on this site has made a judgment call or taken a side. I can
tell you that after more than 5 years of DAILY CONTACT with CONVICTED SEX
OFFENDERS, many of whom were convicted of VIOLENT offences against CHILDREN
between the ages of 4 and 17, they can put on a great face! I have come to know
many that look, act, and talk just like you and me…If I hadn’t had
inside information I never would have guessed at some of the things that these
“men” (and 1 woman) had done to innocent children!!! I think that
IF CONVICTED, this man deserves EVERYTHING HE GETS, and probably more.
Skeptic | 10:59 a.m. July 13, 2009
1. Pratt allegedly betrayed his employer's trust. If true, he should lose
his job.
2. He allegedly betrayed his wife's trust. If true, his wife will have to decide whether to forgive his affair, or leave him.
3. He broke his church's rules of chastity. If true, he will likely lose his membership. So far, I have no problem.
But here is where it gets horrific-
4. He allegedly had consensual sexual relations with a sexually mature young woman, 16 years old. A young woman old enough to choose to get married. Pratt isn't accused of raping a 4 year old, or sodomizing a 10 year old. Yet he's charged with:
"aggravated kidnapping, unlawful sexual conduct with a 16- or 17-year-old, aggravated forcible sex abuse, forcible sodomy, object rape, lewdness, burglary, criminal trespassing, contributing to the delinquency of a minor and enticing a minor."
That is unconscionable. This man may end up in prison for having sex. The officers investigating concur that the relations were consensual...the girl wasn't forced. But they don't even blink charging him with rape and 'forcible' sexual acts. The charges are disproportionate to the crime.
2. He allegedly betrayed his wife's trust. If true, his wife will have to decide whether to forgive his affair, or leave him.
3. He broke his church's rules of chastity. If true, he will likely lose his membership. So far, I have no problem.
But here is where it gets horrific-
4. He allegedly had consensual sexual relations with a sexually mature young woman, 16 years old. A young woman old enough to choose to get married. Pratt isn't accused of raping a 4 year old, or sodomizing a 10 year old. Yet he's charged with:
"aggravated kidnapping, unlawful sexual conduct with a 16- or 17-year-old, aggravated forcible sex abuse, forcible sodomy, object rape, lewdness, burglary, criminal trespassing, contributing to the delinquency of a minor and enticing a minor."
That is unconscionable. This man may end up in prison for having sex. The officers investigating concur that the relations were consensual...the girl wasn't forced. But they don't even blink charging him with rape and 'forcible' sexual acts. The charges are disproportionate to the crime.
Anonymous | 11:07 a.m. July 13, 2009
I'm a liberal. Thank god!
Americans are innocent until they are proven guilty. In our constitution this is call the presumption of innocence.
I'm not commenting on his guilt. We have courts to decide this. Why are we ruining a man and his family without giving him due process?
Americans are innocent until they are proven guilty. In our constitution this is call the presumption of innocence.
I'm not commenting on his guilt. We have courts to decide this. Why are we ruining a man and his family without giving him due process?
anonymous | 11:41 a.m. July 13, 2009
Assuming these allegations are true, and it sounds like there are mountains of
evidence, I am discouraged to see so many people refer to him as a "great
man." I am a teacher, I know the influence I have over students.
Distinction needs to be made between "great" people and
"influential" people. Just because someone taught some students well
over time, that doesn't make them "great." A "great"
person may slip and fall and make a mistake, but they quickly get back on the
path and make it right. This person repeatedly did what he absolutely knew was
wrong--time and time again. He abused the trust that was put in him. Many
students' testimonies may now be in turmoil--just the opposite of what he
was supposed to be doing. Not to mention what he is putting his family through.
He can be forgiven, but some mistakes you pay for (and others pay for) for the
rest of your life. If these allegations are not true, I feel sorry for him and
for the alleged victim.
KRB | 12:00 p.m. July 13, 2009
There are some narcissists running and posting on this blog. It is hopeless with
this kind of thinking to accept the apparent. My sympathies goes to the young
victim.
To "Skeptic" @ 10:59am | 12:12 p.m. July 13, 2009
If the girl had been 18 instead of 16, and the "affair" was
consensual, there would be no criminal charges. He would have to deal with
betraying his wife and family, and Church discipline, and other similar things,
but not legal problems.
However, since she was only 16, she is not legally able to participate in consensual sex with someone over the age of 18. Her consent is meaningless under the law. I don't know what the "object rape" might be, except for sex toys. (Sorry, didn't know another way to say that.) The kidnapping would involve taking her out of school without her parents' consent. Not sure about the burglary or criminal trespass, unless that is dealing with the locations of the events.
I feel so bad for all involved. He was obviously a good man who helped many people in their times of need, as well as being a great teacher. Good, decent men still make mistakes, and since this one was with an underage girl, that also makes it illegal. It is called "aggravated" because he was in a position of trust.
May God be with the girl, Bro. Pratt, their families, and the Judge.
However, since she was only 16, she is not legally able to participate in consensual sex with someone over the age of 18. Her consent is meaningless under the law. I don't know what the "object rape" might be, except for sex toys. (Sorry, didn't know another way to say that.) The kidnapping would involve taking her out of school without her parents' consent. Not sure about the burglary or criminal trespass, unless that is dealing with the locations of the events.
I feel so bad for all involved. He was obviously a good man who helped many people in their times of need, as well as being a great teacher. Good, decent men still make mistakes, and since this one was with an underage girl, that also makes it illegal. It is called "aggravated" because he was in a position of trust.
May God be with the girl, Bro. Pratt, their families, and the Judge.
please wait | 12:17 p.m. July 13, 2009
I don't know anyone involved. I do know however that sometimes people are
falsely accused as a form of revenge. As far as the witness seeing them skinny
dipping. PULEEEEZ Unless he/she actually spoke to them, I don't trust
that ID. I remember watching my son as swimming lessons, along with about 10
other little boys his same age. When they were in the water I could NOT even
identify my own son since people look very differnt with their hair plastered to
their head. Light hair darkens and without being able to see his swim trunks,
he looked like every other little boy from across the pool. I had a neighbor
who I met at a Mom/Tot swim class, except she wasn't my neighbor yet. When
she moved in, we couldn't figure out where we'd known each other from.
We had a good laugh when we finally figured it out, since you do look different
with wet, stringy hair, no makeup etc. Please let the EVIDENCE in a court being
the TRUTH, not speculation from a newspaper article.
anonymous | 12:19 p.m. July 13, 2009
lets stop worrying and just leave this to the police and judges. live our lives
and leave this alone
TO LP STUDENTS... | 12:37 p.m. July 13, 2009
To all LP seminary students I understand your shock and disappointment. Please
understand that ....
1. People can have both good and bad within them simultaneously. Remember the good things Bro. Pratt taught you and hold on to them.
2. Remember the lesson Christ taught all of us in the New Testament when the woman caught in adultery was brought before him. Everyone wanted to stone the woman but Christ asked each to examine their own heart and the person without sin to cast the first stone. Christ then forgave the woman and told her to sin nor more. Remember ONLY Jesus Christ can judge - not us.
3. The 16 year old girl is a victim and will need HUGE support to over come this.
4. No matter what position we hold in life we are all still subject to Satan and his temptations and we also each have our free agency.
5. READ Heleman 5:12 in the Book of Mormon. Remember, there is only ONE PERSON with whom we base our testimony and that is Jesus Christ. People falter but the Savior never will.
1. People can have both good and bad within them simultaneously. Remember the good things Bro. Pratt taught you and hold on to them.
2. Remember the lesson Christ taught all of us in the New Testament when the woman caught in adultery was brought before him. Everyone wanted to stone the woman but Christ asked each to examine their own heart and the person without sin to cast the first stone. Christ then forgave the woman and told her to sin nor more. Remember ONLY Jesus Christ can judge - not us.
3. The 16 year old girl is a victim and will need HUGE support to over come this.
4. No matter what position we hold in life we are all still subject to Satan and his temptations and we also each have our free agency.
5. READ Heleman 5:12 in the Book of Mormon. Remember, there is only ONE PERSON with whom we base our testimony and that is Jesus Christ. People falter but the Savior never will.
Anonymous | 1:03 p.m. July 13, 2009
I am reserving my opinion on guilt or innocence until the truth has been firmly
established. I plead for all of you to do the same. Until then:
1- Hearts are breaking, don't add to the pain
2- Remember that we all make mistakes
3- Ask what you can do that is constructive
4- Don't turn this into religious warfare, I won't
you are all my brothers and sisters
5- Choose Love
1- Hearts are breaking, don't add to the pain
2- Remember that we all make mistakes
3- Ask what you can do that is constructive
4- Don't turn this into religious warfare, I won't
you are all my brothers and sisters
5- Choose Love
RE: anonymous pt 2&3 | 1:19 p.m. July 13, 2009
To clear up any confusion that some of you may have, pt 2 (10:54) and pt 3
(10:55) are not connected to the 10:43 post. The first section of my statement
was not posted! Apparently the moderator found it offensive that I:
1.Don’t live in Utah
2.Am a recent convert (less than 3 months)
3.Have had to answer questions from my non-member friends and family about why I would join a church where something like this would happen. (I made a point of reminding them that stuff like this is happening in many religions…anyone remember any of the priests?)
4.Think that there is way to much of the “the devil made me do it” line going on here
I don’t regret joining as I have been blessed in many ways, but the timing sure is off!
1.Don’t live in Utah
2.Am a recent convert (less than 3 months)
3.Have had to answer questions from my non-member friends and family about why I would join a church where something like this would happen. (I made a point of reminding them that stuff like this is happening in many religions…anyone remember any of the priests?)
4.Think that there is way to much of the “the devil made me do it” line going on here
I don’t regret joining as I have been blessed in many ways, but the timing sure is off!
My Friend | 1:21 p.m. July 13, 2009
To my friend, Brother Pratt and all who felt of his great influence.
Michael had a great capacity to love, he still does.
He taught many of us about repentance and forgiveness,
I will remember that.
He taught us to build our lives on Jesus Christ, who will get all of us through this.
He taught us to mourn with those that mourn and comfort those that stand in need of comfort.
Michael would be the first to reserve judgment, offer fellowship and look with eyes of compassion. Let's remember that example.
Michael had a great capacity to love, he still does.
He taught many of us about repentance and forgiveness,
I will remember that.
He taught us to build our lives on Jesus Christ, who will get all of us through this.
He taught us to mourn with those that mourn and comfort those that stand in need of comfort.
Michael would be the first to reserve judgment, offer fellowship and look with eyes of compassion. Let's remember that example.
Me | 1:24 p.m. July 13, 2009
Wow I had pratt. This is like the worst thing ever. Me and me brother both
respeceted him so much. My brother is on a mission so he doesn't one about
it yet. Should I tell him?
SJB | 2:06 p.m. July 13, 2009
I've never been on a mission, but I would think that if he is anywhere in
North America he may already know??? I know that missionaries aren't
supposed to watch TV, read the paper, etc..."have eyes only for the Lord
and his work", but everyone in the church is talking about this case, so if
he is attending Sacrament meetings he's probably already heard about it.
If you feel that there is something that he can do (aside from fasting and prayer), then tell him, otherwise, let him continue his mission. You can talk when he gets back, there are more important things for him to be thinking about right now! On the other hand, if he brings it up in correspondence go ahead and give him your thoughts...I just don't see the point or benefit.
Just a thought.
If you feel that there is something that he can do (aside from fasting and prayer), then tell him, otherwise, let him continue his mission. You can talk when he gets back, there are more important things for him to be thinking about right now! On the other hand, if he brings it up in correspondence go ahead and give him your thoughts...I just don't see the point or benefit.
Just a thought.
John Pack Lambert | 2:06 p.m. July 13, 2009
No one has said "the devil made him do it". It is an example of
lack of cultural understanding to claim that those who mention Satan are trying
to absolve this man.
They are just trying to work out how a man who has done so much good, could do such evil. Maybe he has been a liar and putting on a false face for longer, but that is not the issue exactly.
What these people are saying is that Satan is trying to entice us to evil. We have a choice, and are clearly responsible for our own actions. There is no claim that Mr. Pratt should not be punished, but just an assesment of how he came to such a point.
WHile, without evidence the statement that pornography was involved might be pre-mature, the connection between porn and sexual assults is demonstrable. One factor involved though is the defintion of porn, and the fact that different people react to different things differently. Alchohol does not make people violent, but violent people tend more to be violent after drinking. In the same way porn can be an catalyst for problems.
They are just trying to work out how a man who has done so much good, could do such evil. Maybe he has been a liar and putting on a false face for longer, but that is not the issue exactly.
What these people are saying is that Satan is trying to entice us to evil. We have a choice, and are clearly responsible for our own actions. There is no claim that Mr. Pratt should not be punished, but just an assesment of how he came to such a point.
WHile, without evidence the statement that pornography was involved might be pre-mature, the connection between porn and sexual assults is demonstrable. One factor involved though is the defintion of porn, and the fact that different people react to different things differently. Alchohol does not make people violent, but violent people tend more to be violent after drinking. In the same way porn can be an catalyst for problems.
John Pack Lambert | 2:47 p.m. July 13, 2009
The assumption that posters are LDS is often an assumption. If you read
carefully, you will find that many of the posters who are most supportive of Mr.
Pratt are not LDS.
There are, despite some people not being willing to believe it, even people who deney the victim is such.
Personally I think we underestimate the use of manipulation to get sex, and make it too hard to prove rape when the victim is over 18.
However, I also have to admit I am uncomfortable with the claims that just because other people are calous and judgemental elsewhere we must be here.
If you could site specific examples of actual people having acted differently in other cases, you would have a point. However, I still hold the view that 90% of the commentators here would not have commented elsewhere.
I challenge anyone to come up with any specific case of someone here having actually applied a different standard to a different case that can be shown to be analogous in some way.
I am really tired of people accusing everyone else as a group.
There are, despite some people not being willing to believe it, even people who deney the victim is such.
Personally I think we underestimate the use of manipulation to get sex, and make it too hard to prove rape when the victim is over 18.
However, I also have to admit I am uncomfortable with the claims that just because other people are calous and judgemental elsewhere we must be here.
If you could site specific examples of actual people having acted differently in other cases, you would have a point. However, I still hold the view that 90% of the commentators here would not have commented elsewhere.
I challenge anyone to come up with any specific case of someone here having actually applied a different standard to a different case that can be shown to be analogous in some way.
I am really tired of people accusing everyone else as a group.
rattler | 2:53 p.m. July 13, 2009
I personally know of several upstanding members of the church who have committed
serious crimes. Almost anyone is capable of it, Returned Missionaries, Young
Men's Presidents, Bishops and even Stake Presidents. I am a member and
would love to think that all of us are above this type of behavior, but
we're still human and therefore, weak.
Personally, I have been victimized (affair with my wife) by my neighbor and friend who I had worked with in the Young Men's program. He groomed her and she was flattered enough to fall for his cunning. She admitted it, I forgave her, she went through church discipline. He didn't admit it (though there was a lot of evidence) and he got off easy--in this life. He's a coward.
Hopefully, Bro. Pratt will do the right thing and take responsibility for his actions. And yes, the girl is a victim, 100% because of her age.
Personally, I have been victimized (affair with my wife) by my neighbor and friend who I had worked with in the Young Men's program. He groomed her and she was flattered enough to fall for his cunning. She admitted it, I forgave her, she went through church discipline. He didn't admit it (though there was a lot of evidence) and he got off easy--in this life. He's a coward.
Hopefully, Bro. Pratt will do the right thing and take responsibility for his actions. And yes, the girl is a victim, 100% because of her age.
John Pack Lambert | 2:58 p.m. July 13, 2009
To SJB,
I did not hear anyone say anything about this case at Church yesterday. Maybe in some places lots of people are talking about it, but not where I live.
Also, one more time, no one said "the devil made him do it". They said he was tempted by Satan. No one has denied that he was responsible. Just because Satan has lulled many in to believing he does not exist does not mean we should stop speaking of him.
I did not hear anyone say anything about this case at Church yesterday. Maybe in some places lots of people are talking about it, but not where I live.
Also, one more time, no one said "the devil made him do it". They said he was tempted by Satan. No one has denied that he was responsible. Just because Satan has lulled many in to believing he does not exist does not mean we should stop speaking of him.
Stone thrower | 2:59 p.m. July 13, 2009
OK, I am not going to throw a stone but I can freely admit here that I have
never cheated on my wife with a 16 year old. Seems like common sense
doesn't it? I also don't put myself in bad situations like this. If
you are a male teacher, you are a target, don't be alone with students.
rattler | 3:01 p.m. July 13, 2009
continued...
By the way, I love my wife deeply (we've now been married for 21 years, 12 since the ordeal) and the moment that I decided to forgive her was the single most spiritual moment in my life.
You'd have to say that it was a happy ending (except on his part--he'll have to pay one day). This story could also have a happy ending if the correct approach is taken to resolve the matter.
By the way, I love my wife deeply (we've now been married for 21 years, 12 since the ordeal) and the moment that I decided to forgive her was the single most spiritual moment in my life.
You'd have to say that it was a happy ending (except on his part--he'll have to pay one day). This story could also have a happy ending if the correct approach is taken to resolve the matter.
Anonymous | 3:02 p.m. July 13, 2009
"Michael had a great capacity to love, he still does."
LOL
LOL
To supporters | 3:31 p.m. July 13, 2009
You are feeling sorry for someone who does not deserve it. Feel sorry for his
victim.
Anonymous | 3:53 p.m. July 13, 2009
Quit making excuses for this mans evil. This needs to be stopped! We need to
work on saving our children from all these filthy old men.
jcstrat | 3:56 p.m. July 13, 2009
I think that there is a huge misunderstanding for the word "judge".It
isn't that we are not to judge it is that we should not judge
unjustly.Everyday we have to make judgements about people.This is done for our
own safety sometimes. Or maybe the safety of our children.For the most part we
are not judging Mr. Pratt we are simply expressing our feelings and thoughts in
a safe and proper forum.As for Mr. Pratt, where much is given, much is
expected.It sounds from those of you who know him that he had some amazing
talents but, he is human and therefore fallible.This is why you do not put your
faith in people you put your faith in the only ones that are perfect Heavenly
Father and Jesus Christ.I feel sadness and sympathy for his alleged victim and
for all of the innocent people in this situation that have been victimised.This
young woman was a child.She by law is a child.Easily manipulated and coerced
especially at the age she is.From the list of accusations if found guilty Mr.
Pratt has a lot to answer for.
FJ | 4:12 p.m. July 13, 2009
"If he was innocent... why did he invoke his right to an attorney?"
Because he, unlike you, clearly has an IQ superior to that of a handicapped goldfish.
Because he, unlike you, clearly has an IQ superior to that of a handicapped goldfish.
Robert | 5:05 p.m. July 13, 2009
I'd like to remind everyone that while this acusation is very serious, it
is still an acusation. This gentlement is still innocent until proven guilty.
Lets not use this forum to be our Judicial system.
Just another mortal man | 5:11 p.m. July 13, 2009
Been there. Lucky for me she was a "former" student, and of legal
age, so no prosecution. I confessed, got excommunicated, and felt obliged to
quit the teaching job that brought me into contact with attractive college
coeds. Lost the trust and confidence of my wife and children. It was
hellish.
There, but for the grace of God, go I.
I was also one of those described as a great teacher, and was even named as the Educator of the Year at my University. While repenting, I found it impossible to teach with the Spirit. Having been rebaptized, now I focus on teaching people I am not attracted to, like the young men in my ward. The major lesson I learned is that mixing sexual attraction with teaching is a dangerous combination. I wasn't the first to get caught in this trap, and evidently, I won't be the last.
There, but for the grace of God, go I.
I was also one of those described as a great teacher, and was even named as the Educator of the Year at my University. While repenting, I found it impossible to teach with the Spirit. Having been rebaptized, now I focus on teaching people I am not attracted to, like the young men in my ward. The major lesson I learned is that mixing sexual attraction with teaching is a dangerous combination. I wasn't the first to get caught in this trap, and evidently, I won't be the last.
Re 5:11 | 5:50 p.m. July 13, 2009
Did your wife dump you? I do feel sorry for her.
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Michael J. Pratt
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