Deseret News | Teachers struggle with district cuts

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Teachers struggle with district cuts

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Re: Salary | 7:00 p.m. July 6, 2009

$80,000????? In Jordan District? You are misinformed.

Performance Pay | 7:25 p.m. July 6, 2009

It's not a viable reality. You'd soon have teachers doing unethical things to boost their numbers. Sad, but true.

Utah Dem | 7:34 p.m. July 6, 2009

To share the burden - this would only mean something in the Jordan district where the school board president makes $24,000 and some members are making $18,000; the Ogden district's board members make $3,750 per year.

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Westg323 | 7:42 p.m. July 6, 2009

Those who think teachers are overpaid should look at how much administrators and employees at the District level make. Society pay more to those jobs they value more. We apparently value athletes and high profile personalities more than the most important people in our child's lives outside of our own families.
Teaching is an art that requires patience, organizational skills, persistence and endurance. It's easy to judge if you have never done it.

new teacher | 7:43 p.m. July 6, 2009

I am a 40+ year-old former stay-at-home mother of 5 who is finishing an Elementary Education degree. I will be teaching my first year this coming fall.

I am really looking forward to it.

All of these negative comments and don't really mean a lot to me. I know what I want to do and why. I know what the salary is. I've had all my kids in the public school system and know that there are great teachers and not-so-great.

My husband is leaving the ruthless business world to teach high school and we're both excited for the change.

We're old enough to know that nothing is perfect. There are troubles in every profession. There are also great people and whiners found in every profession as well.

Do what you want and enjoy it.

Outside looking In | 7:47 p.m. July 6, 2009

I work as an educator in a neighboring state. We get paid more than Utah and some of your best and brightest are moving our way. It has been my experience in talking with these folks that UTAH values education as long as they don't have to pay for it. The old something valuable for nothing. It is the same reason so many scams are successful in your state. Don't you folks realize that every dollar spent on salaries changes hands at least seven times in the community.

new teacher | 8:27 p.m. July 6, 2009

I am a new teacher in the davis school district, last year was my second year. Here is my schedule.

7:30-1 pm (my prep is my last period)

1-2:00 correct papers, get lesson plans ready, etc

2-3:00 work on the baseball field, watch film for football, whatever sport I am in I need to get ready for practice or a game.
3-5 baseball and or football practice.
Now if it is baseball, there are some times I do not get home until 6:30 or 7
During football, I will be up all night watching film and getting ready for the next game.
So during those sports seasons I rarely see my family, and next year we are playing JV games after Varsity games for baseball, which means I won't be home until 10pm.

Now I am not complaining about my salary or anything with the pay. I knew that going in. I just love teaching YOUR kids!!!! SO get off teachers and quit saying we whine to much.

Guess what, I am going boating tomorrow, and fishing next week, then back to football. Gotta love it!!!!!!!!!

to: JSD Administrators | 8:33 p.m. July 6, 2009

Still waiting to hear the reason for your unwillingness to share in the budget crisis. When JSD lost HALF it's schools and students, it only eliminated 7% of it's district administrators! HOW CAN THAT BE? If a school lost half it's student population, it would also lose about 50% of it's teachers and the remaining teachers would be forced to double up on responsibilities! That's the real world. Why is nobody questioning this move by JSD admin? Few district administrators are hurt by the decision not to fund steps and lanes. Teachers in JSD are willing to sacrifice. WHY WON'T YOU? Why not take furlough days instead of just eliminating PDD? YES -- we get it. The state legislature eliminated PDD, not the JSD board. But you (and the board) have the power to make this more equitable, like every other district. But it will have to affect you, too!! Your unwillingness to share in the cuts speaks volumes about where your priorities are. Teachers and community members expect fairness!!!

to: JSD Parents | 8:44 p.m. July 6, 2009

You should be outraged that your property taxes are skyrocketing while district administrators (almost all of them) retained their jobs in the split. No big deal, except that they CUT administrative jobs in schools!! We will have elementary schools with 1200 - 1500 students and no vice principals. We will have high schools with 2700 students and only 3 VPs and maybe 4 counselors. Don't expect any services. At least one high school has already cut some programs because they don't have the personnel to oversee them. JSD patrons should demand district leaders make some sacrifices BEFORE schools do! Students are the ones to suffer. Does anyone really think students are better off because 93% of district administrators kept their jobs in the split? Personnel should be kept in (or moved to) schools --- you know, where the work with kids actually takes place. Parents and taxpayers should demand it or we'll remain unreasonably top-heavy and our students will pay the price!

mike | 8:52 p.m. July 6, 2009

I work for the state and have job requiring a degree but don't make as much a teacher. Wish I made as much as my brother who teaches and who gets the summer off.

Great lively debate misses point | 9:06 p.m. July 6, 2009

If you are a teacher and also belong to the union (UEA) you deserve minimum wage. Please quit and benefit us all. The UEA is the single greatest impediment to public education and the ascent of teachers. If you want to be treated like a professional and earn professional wages, why do you belong to a blue collar labor union?

Canuckview | 9:25 p.m. July 6, 2009

I am amazed at the hate mongering towards teachers in so many of the comments I have read. It is no surprise at the lack of respect shown to teachers though by parents or admin, it is almost a given these days. As for babysitting, I don't get paid enough to babysit so I teach. I have taught for 25 years and if I were doing it for the pay then I would have left long ago...there are some of us who just enjoy teaching. BTW I do get my summers off...that is why I have done 3 years at a teacher training college, 2 years correspondence, 1 year of history/geography, 2 years of special ed and in Sept start another 2 years of a PE course. 10 years of training has earned me the right to do enjoy my summers...which I do work part time.

Merrell | 9:25 p.m. July 6, 2009

I am the Mr. Merrell that is featured in this story and was torn when the Deseret News approached me. I hope the implications won’t be too severe but I feel I need to stand up for myself and other young teachers.

I want to make it perfectly clear that I love my job as a teacher. The students, parents, community, and administration/staff at Bingham are incredible. The fulfillment I get from seeing my students learn and progress would be impossible to duplicate in another profession. I know I can make more money in the “real world” but I gladly chose to teach because of my students.

I feel an unfair burden is being placed on young teachers. With the current budget I will lose nearly 15% of my salary while an administrator will see no decrease.

The question I am facing is not whether to leave the teaching profession but whether to leave Bingham High School and Jordan School District. I can’t imagine how it would feel to leave the school I love so much. I hope the district will evaluate alternatives that will share the burden of the budget across all employees.

to: From Jordan School District | 9:58 p.m. July 6, 2009

So please explain why more building administrators were eliminated than district administrators, when the district was cut in half. For the students? Really? Population in the schools is way up, but building administrators have been cut. Been waiting for awhile now for an explanation on this. WHen and where can this explanation be expected? AMy Stewart is probably not writing another story, so please let me know when I can expect this explanation!

Former Teacher | 10:57 p.m. July 6, 2009

This sickens me... Teaching was the best job I ever had - except for the pay. I was laid off 3 weeks before school started, and after 4 enjoyable years, I was forced to recareer. Sad thing is, I'd never go back. Lack of respect, lack of financial incentive. In the end it wasn't worth it to me to try again the next year. Best of luck to the teacher in the article....

seanP | 11:23 p.m. July 6, 2009

That's what we get for letting the goverment run differnt businesses.

Bill | 5:14 a.m. July 7, 2009

I know it is difficult to take a cut in pay; been there, done that. But at least you have a job. In the private sector of this economy, you'ed probably be fired. So grid your teeth and hang in there. A thought, "Would your teaching improve with a pay raise?" or "Will you lower your teaching because you did not get a pay raise?"

I taught for 30 years and saw a number of teachers who did not improve their teaching skills -- 20 years on the job and one year of experience vrs 20 years of experience.

Everyone is hurting. Should you be any different?

FYI | 8:15 a.m. July 7, 2009

RE: Prospective Teacher | 11:01 a.m. July 6, 2009

Listen follow your dream!! There are a lot of great things about teaching. Just do your homework and know what you are getting into.

Go talk to teachers that are willing to tell you the truth.

There is a ton of politics and low pay is just one small problem attached to being a teacher.

Administration is one of the big problems. There simply is no support and after many, many years I have come to realize that the meetings and ideas put on the table twenty five years ago were never implemented.

Education in America is failing because it is so underfunded. Teachers are frowned upon and most parents are not willing to support them. Simply put school districts are happy just maintaining the status quo.

If you love to coach and work with kids it is an awesome experience. But the politics may kill you in the end. It is a lot of work and prepare yourself for a second job almost certainly even if your spouse works. Good Luck!!

I noticed someone on here put a Jordan teacher makes 80K...just another uniformed hater.

A-1 | 8:17 a.m. July 7, 2009

Hey Teachers | 10:19 a.m. July 6, 2009

You are correct administrators make thousands and thousands more than the average teacher.

What's you point??

Did you even read the article?

Do you know administrators are not taking a cut and if they are they can afford it (check their wages, there in lies part of the problem), while teachers continue to struggle.

You really should learn the facts or read the article before posting your illiterate comments.

Another uneducated HATER...typical!!

Go back to school and become a teacher.

All you uneducated haters that think it is so easy to get a degree...GO DO IT!!

Truth be told you can't.

You dropouts need to get some perspective or better yet get a life.

BOO WHO!!

Teachers just need to learn how to throw a good old fashion strike. What has being nice ever gotten you?

District Admin | 9:25 a.m. July 7, 2009

Let me first say that I think there are too many administrators at the district level in every district I've seen. Sometimes it seems like jobs are created to help a friend out. But, when you cut a district in half you don't cut the number of district administrators in half. If we were to have a district that only had the necessary district admin positions, and then cut that district in half, you still have one math specialist, one science specialist, etc. Many positions have one person in them and a district split would actually create a few jobs so that each district could fill those positions.
That said, I restate my position that there are too many district level jobs. It seems like every person I know at my school district has a secretary or two, and a team that all does the same thing. I would like some of these positions eliminated so that some of that money can stay with the teachers -not to pay them more, but to keep more teachers. I'm scheduled to have 35-40 kids in each of my classes next year. My room fits 30 desks...

I love teachers, not whiners | 10:21 a.m. July 7, 2009

I love how everyone working in public education has started commenting on the story and accusing everyone else of hating teachers.*

The one problem is that we, the non-teachers, don't hate teachers. In fact, we think very highly of many of them. They've changed our lives for the better.

WHAT WE DO HATE ARE WHINERS who act as if they never knew what they were signing up for and who can't appreciate having a $35,000 salary plus $15,000 in benefits including retirement and tons of holidays at a time when millions of Americans would be happy just to have a job!!!! You should be counting your blessings instead of wallowing in self-pity. But of course, it's all for the children, right???

*This tactic is straight from education politics 101. If someone ever questions the education establishment, just accuse them of hating teachers and you'll silence any dissent. It's a very effective tactic no matter how dirty.

The Issue | 10:41 a.m. July 7, 2009

The sad thing in this story is that Mr. Merrell looked at Jordan District's salary schedule and decided it would be worth his time, effort, and money to purse his Masters Degree. Based on the salary schedule, he knew that doing so would help him make more money. He wasn't asking for a handout, but was willing to do extra work to get a higher pay. Then after it was completed they said, "Oh, never mind...no lane changes this year."

That's ridiculous.

There are plenty of districts in the state that have found a way to deal with budget cuts without taking away steps and lane changes that teachers plan and work for.

Re: FYI @ 8:15 | 2:47 p.m. July 7, 2009

Education is NOT failing because of "lack of funding",
it is failing because of societal Problems (political correctness, no real morals-just different opinions) and also a large dose of mismanagement!

Reality T.V | 4:19 p.m. July 7, 2009

Dude thought teaching and coaching would be cool. Now the reality of low pay, politics and disrespect has hit him.

Get out while you can!

To the person saying we should get a lottery and spelled it with one 't' come on people!!

Honestly, the more I read the comments posted here the more I realize the value of teachers and higher learning.

Teachers should have the OPTION of retiring at 25 years. If they choose to stay on beyond that then so be it but the retirement system stops at 25 years. Retire and go do something else. Stephenson continues to set teachers up for failure. His pet projects keep getting him re-elected.

Additionally, there are so many ineffective administrators and positions. Administrators should be put back in the classroom at some point. They simply loose touch with what teachers deal with on a daily basis. Let alone draw huge salaries. A good old boys network!!!

I believe as time goes on you will see fewer and fewer people coming out of college and staying in teaching. As it stands now the typical teacher lasts 3-5 years.

Like dude here; it won't take long.

Secure | 4:28 p.m. July 7, 2009

Let me get this straight!! Because I have taught for over twenty years earned a Masters Degree plus forty. Coached every sport under the sun, worked community education,weekends and summers (every year of teaching) I am lucky to have a job.

That does not compute..the negative posts here make teaching sound so easy yet, those making the negative posts more than likely do not have any formal education.

Yes, I am lucky...lucky that I worked hard, stuck with it wanted to provide for my family and now I am secure.

Come one, come all!!! Pay your dues earn a degree or two, put twenty plus years in (all the while working two jobs) and feel the security.

Any takers??

Just as I thought...WIMPS!!!

Go back to your crying!!!

david jay | 4:51 p.m. July 7, 2009

I wanted to be a teacher. I worked nights and weekends to get my degree while on active duty in the military. I would gladly work for $35K per year. BUT....BUT I can't be a teacher because I didn't take the "proper" education courses. I got a 90th percentile on the NTE (National Teacher's Exam). I think they changed the test due to people like me who got good scores based on life experiences. As long as the "administrators" control the purse strings and the business of education there will be problems like this. I call it the education mafia. All children left behind. Dumbing down. Take your pick of terms, but the answer is still the education industry has created and grown its own problems. Good luck young teacher. BTW all of my elementary and most of my high school teachers were little old ladies who were married to farmers. Some didn't even have degrees and the eighth grade teacher was an additional duty principal.

A 3 Month Break? | 9:07 a.m. July 8, 2009

I get a kick out of the IGNORANCE of the people that think educators get a 3 month break and that it is an "easy" profession. I doubt most of them could deal with an irrate parent, deal with a student with a weapon, a student with ADHD or a student whose parents are abusive. How would they deal with students calling them mean and unfair when they receive their grades? After school is out, we grade papers and projects; attend various meetings; sit on budget and planning committees; write e-mails and contact parents whose children are failing. Far from being a glorified babysitter.

Many of my fellow faculty members teach summer school, take on part-time jobs at fast food places, do community coaching, and other jobs to make ends meet. I don't see many Lexus' and BMW's in the faculty lot. However, I would suggest that 6 layers of Administration could be cut to augment supplies and other resources.

To those who had bitter experiences in HS, the DRAMA is over, Grow Up. I suggest you go rent Mr. Holland's Opus, and see what we do to make ends meet.

Alpine Educator | 9:40 a.m. July 8, 2009

I must say first that I LOVE TEACHING! I find it an amazingly fulfilling and uplifting experience every time I enter the classroom. I am saddened that this is the argument we are having - but I am even more sickened by the wanton disregard for education itself. I do not believe that throwing more money will improve fix this problem. I would love to be paid more, but I am okay - my benefits are good (this is not to say that all districts are equal in that category)! If we want to get rid of poor teachers, it is not through more money that we do it! It is through parental involvement! Parents have a right to know what is going on inside their child's classroom - so go find out! I am a high school teacher and I feel that if parents would come in and make surprise visits to a teachers classroom during school hours - poor teachers would quickly become good teachers. When there is a chance someone would be "popping" in to check on you and see what you are doing - everyone would be more prepared. Perhaps then society would be willing to pay higher salaries.

Savant | 10:29 a.m. July 8, 2009

It's a sad story, but teachers are not exempt from the economic downturn the rest of us are experiencing.

My neighbors are both teachers and great people. But I have noticed they get summers off, are home every morning when I'm leaving for work and every evening when I return. One of them got gastric by-pass surgery and the other got laser eye surgery, courtesy of their taxpayer-funded insurance policy (mine would not cover either, by the by).

They get holidays off that we in the business world didn't even know existed. They have combined fewer years of post-high school education than I have and yet they complain that I make almost as much as the two of them together.

Hmmm, let me see. I work more hours, have more education and have taken more risk. Yep, sounds fair to me that I should make more money.

Why Do I Stay? | 1:20 p.m. July 8, 2009

I have taught 7th grade math for almost enough years to retire. Every year the legislature slams our professionalism. Funds education with the largest class sizes and the lowest funding per student in the nation. I know I will go to heaven because I have spent my time in hell.

I STAY because I can reach,help,support,encourage, or make a change in a student's life. Hopefully, more than one.

I am a proud member of NEA UEA and GEA. These associations negotiate for my benefits, provide continuing education, protect me from bad administrations, false student complaints, and out-of-control parents.

Am I paid what I am worth? ABSOLUTELY NOT!! And next June, I will decide if I care enough to teach another year. At the very least, I will have early retirement benefits that will justify the low pay, the STRESS, the heartache, and memories of the students that I was able to reach.

Cool Like Dat | 5:46 p.m. July 8, 2009

RE:Why Do I Stay? | 1:20 p.m. July 8, 2009

"I know I will go to heaven because I have spent my time in hell".

Thanks for the truth and the laugh...AWESOME.

I hope you retire and live a long and happy life.

Many of us are in the same boat!!

Made my day...thanks again!!

Re: Mr. Merrell | 6:30 p.m. July 8, 2009

I left Jordan District after just two years there. It was the best move I ever made for my career and my family. I wouldn't hesitate one second to find a better district to work for. Once you reach five years, you're pretty much stuck there for life because other districts won't give you more than five years of experience on the pay scale. Get out while you can! Probably every district in the state is a better option than Jordan right now.

Anonymous | 12:24 p.m. July 9, 2009

Administrators are overburdening our education systems without adding any educational value. They are bureaucrats and are like leeches, sucking the life-giving blood out of the school systems. In my day, Administrators also taught. That is the way it should be today. Each administrator should teach at least one class.

Commenting | 2:00 p.m. July 9, 2009

I am glad to see a non-sports story near the top of comments. I am glad people care almost as much about education as sports.

Listen Up! | 9:48 a.m. July 10, 2009

Teachers work 75% of the year, therefore their salaries are 75% of the average annual salary for non teachers. It is VERY common for those in the Business world to work overtime each week. a 50-60 hour week is extremely common. Teachers also work 50 hour weeks but only do so for 9 months of the year. I work 50 hour weeks for 12 months a year. Just do the math and its clear why teachers make 75% of my salary. The pay is fair. The numbers prove it.

latecomment | 1:29 p.m. July 10, 2009

To give one more thought to think about. His MBA is a masters degree just like an administrators masters degree. A new administrator makes approximatly 25,000 more then a new teacher with a masters degree. Teachers are a key part to a school and why is an administrator with a masters degree making so much more then a teacher with a masters degree? If anyone can answer that let me know.

Teacher | 2:49 p.m. July 10, 2009

Yes I will say that teachers don't get paid a lot of money. Those of you who work 12 months a year, 50 hours a week have your job because SOMEONE TAUGHT YOU how to do your job. So thank a teacher for your lovely salary.

Whether it is getting an outside job or working to make their curriculum better, most teachers still work during the summer.

I am so sick of people dogging on teachers. Then again, those people who dog on teachers don't care about making their kids education better. They say "We care about education, We care about education." Then they do nothing to make it better. Stop being hypocrites!

Wondering Why | 7:18 p.m. July 10, 2009

I'm a high school teacher. I sat in a conference last winter where State office of Education officials went on and on about how important we (skills and career teachers) are and how we contribute to our students' ability to earn a solid wage. They presented an array of statistics showing the average salary for the occupations we are preparing the students for. They were much higher than our own (what are they telliong us?). They also talked about the growing demand for skilled workers.

Why does anyone expect to have high quality education in the public school system when the teachers are only making half of what their students will be making? You either have to be really dedicated or really stupid to be a teacher. As a society, we need to decide what kind of teachers we want and then be honest about it.

Teach because you love it | 2:53 p.m. July 11, 2009

This article helps clarify the some problems in education.
Hats off to Mr. Merrill and the others who dared tell the truth about the result of poor management decisions in education. I reread the article and it talks more about shared sacrifice than low pay. The districts that cut into teachers are like companies that save money by cutting sales staff and manufacturing workers, but protect management. The short term gain is never permanent, the best leave for better positions, better companies, and the less competent remain. In private industry, profits slump and bankruptcies follow. Look at GM: does anyone believe that demoralizing workers and dealerships will result in top line products? Education is different in that the public is stuck with the poor decisions of the administrators. And bad administrators breed bad morale, bad morale leads to poor education for our kids. I think the advice to Mr. Merrill to jump to a new district is excellent. Jordan is a sinking ship, destined for GM status, until the public demands new leadership.

As to the HATERS, put their kids and taxes into a special district, and keep them away from my kids' teachers.

To Prospective Teacher: | 9:09 p.m. July 11, 2009

Teaching and coaching has brought me a ton of great memories. I know I have been fortunate to touch many lives and have my life and family uplifted by the students, parents and fellow colleagues I've been around. I'm a 20 year veteran of this profession and I would say the first two were a struggle, the next 8 or so were great and the last 10 have been hard and getting harder year by year. It isn't the students but things like NCLB, administrators, and somewhat the parents of recent. Along with that, my pay has lessened over the past few years and opportunities to make money additionally in education have dried up. Slowly and slowly, my ability to pay my bills, save money for my own children's education etc. has become ever more difficult--my standard of living has decreased.

I would love to tell you to go into teaching as it has been rewarding in many ways for me. However, with the current state of education (at least in Utah) as it is, and the likelihood that these issues will get worse, do something else--hopefully something that still benefits humanity.

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Jeffrey D. Allred, Deseret News

Bingham High School teacher Vince Merrell holds his daughter, Brooke, along with wife Meagan at their home.

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Teachers struggle with district cuts

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Teachers struggle with district cuts