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Utah Jazz: Millsap's potential suitor list is getting narrower
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Okur is a decent guy | 11:23 p.m. July 2, 2009
I hope he has figured out that the economy is bad and likely to stay bad. It
must be a shock to the NBA players who are so used to their salaries going up to
have the bottom fall out.
Go look at all of the free agents who are going to take massive pay cuts because the best offer (if they get an offer) is the MLE at 5.6. Artest just took a pay cut. Ariza is signing for the MLE. There are a lot of big names and egos who are scrambling to find an average deal before those dry up.
If I were OKC I would simply wait.They have cap space and a lot of one year contracts. They can wait for a really good ideal player to fall into their lap. They want a big or two who are cheap and have experience. Millsap does not quite fit that.
OKC knows they are in the drivers seat on FAs. They are the only team left with space that is likely to be able to use it. Why blow a lot of money on Millsap other than to hassle Utah into spending to much?
Go look at all of the free agents who are going to take massive pay cuts because the best offer (if they get an offer) is the MLE at 5.6. Artest just took a pay cut. Ariza is signing for the MLE. There are a lot of big names and egos who are scrambling to find an average deal before those dry up.
If I were OKC I would simply wait.They have cap space and a lot of one year contracts. They can wait for a really good ideal player to fall into their lap. They want a big or two who are cheap and have experience. Millsap does not quite fit that.
OKC knows they are in the drivers seat on FAs. They are the only team left with space that is likely to be able to use it. Why blow a lot of money on Millsap other than to hassle Utah into spending to much?
todd from santa ana | 2:06 a.m. July 3, 2009
of course Okur likes SLoan because he does not have to defend....And he does not
anyway. Paycuts or not Artest to the Lakers so they aptly replace Ariza and add
excellent defense even they lose some of Ariza length, blocks and court
coverage...
Kevin O Connor. Incredible he can get a #2 guard loike Hamilton but does not want the 3 year $35 million extension because in long run where is money saved?
It should be "what spots do the Jazz need strengthened to compete for the world championship:?
As you all know it is about "fun and competitive"
We will get many comments on the ESPN article I am sure...
Kevin O Connor. Incredible he can get a #2 guard loike Hamilton but does not want the 3 year $35 million extension because in long run where is money saved?
It should be "what spots do the Jazz need strengthened to compete for the world championship:?
As you all know it is about "fun and competitive"
We will get many comments on the ESPN article I am sure...
Comments continue below
Oh yeah! perfect fit .. | 4:42 a.m. July 3, 2009
.. I stewed over this many times as a potential option for trades.
.. lets go O'connor trade Boozer for Rick Hamilton and Teyshaun Prince.
. It will fix your problem throw-in Mo Almond or Brewer or definately CJ Miles. Any one or two of them with booze for Hamilton and Prince is definately an upgrade. They just signed Gordon and Vilanueva to play with Stucky.
Anyways this allows you to give millsap his worth 30-40+ mil 5year deal.
Then let it play out after you get your last piece .. a true defensive center .. ie a Dampier type center to come off the bench.
Jerry Sloan can use AK/Millsap at the 4 and you would have some of the most physical defenders to match up with the Kobe's/LeBron's and Wades of the league. I guarantee a conference finals appearance.
Let's just look at HX what got you there last time. Mental playoff confidence that fisher brought in 07. Biggest mistake just letting fisher get away. my depth chart.
pg Williams Price/Maynor
sg Hamilton Korver
sf Prince Harpring
pf Millsap Kirlenko
C Memo Dampier or someone for the bench that actually plays Defense
.. lets go O'connor trade Boozer for Rick Hamilton and Teyshaun Prince.
. It will fix your problem throw-in Mo Almond or Brewer or definately CJ Miles. Any one or two of them with booze for Hamilton and Prince is definately an upgrade. They just signed Gordon and Vilanueva to play with Stucky.
Anyways this allows you to give millsap his worth 30-40+ mil 5year deal.
Then let it play out after you get your last piece .. a true defensive center .. ie a Dampier type center to come off the bench.
Jerry Sloan can use AK/Millsap at the 4 and you would have some of the most physical defenders to match up with the Kobe's/LeBron's and Wades of the league. I guarantee a conference finals appearance.
Let's just look at HX what got you there last time. Mental playoff confidence that fisher brought in 07. Biggest mistake just letting fisher get away. my depth chart.
pg Williams Price/Maynor
sg Hamilton Korver
sf Prince Harpring
pf Millsap Kirlenko
C Memo Dampier or someone for the bench that actually plays Defense
The Jazz are designed | 7:43 a.m. July 3, 2009
around the PF and AK just does not match up with most PFs. He is not the right
starter at the PF. He can back up if needed but that is not ideal.
Hamilton and Prince are pricy and really do not solve the Jazz problems. Hamilton does not shoot the 3 among other things.
The Jazz need to be patient and the get the right (and right priced players) for each position.
Harp is gone one way or another. The Jazz need one complete player at the 2/3 spot, one who can shoot and defend (Not Korver or Brewer). He does not need to be a big name nor have a big price. Just get the capability. That with Harp might get the Jazz back to a sustainable salary just under the luxury tax.
They also need the right PF (not Boozer or Millsap). I have not seen one among the FAs. The Jazz insist on Cs who can shoot the 3. But they need a C who also has an inside game.
Overall they need better defenders not talk about nastiness.
Fix the above problems and maybe they win the West.
Hamilton and Prince are pricy and really do not solve the Jazz problems. Hamilton does not shoot the 3 among other things.
The Jazz need to be patient and the get the right (and right priced players) for each position.
Harp is gone one way or another. The Jazz need one complete player at the 2/3 spot, one who can shoot and defend (Not Korver or Brewer). He does not need to be a big name nor have a big price. Just get the capability. That with Harp might get the Jazz back to a sustainable salary just under the luxury tax.
They also need the right PF (not Boozer or Millsap). I have not seen one among the FAs. The Jazz insist on Cs who can shoot the 3. But they need a C who also has an inside game.
Overall they need better defenders not talk about nastiness.
Fix the above problems and maybe they win the West.
Ah Oh | 8:07 a.m. July 3, 2009
Millsap is learing that maybe he's not worth as much as his agent thinks he
is.
Hamilton would be a great fit in Utah's system.
Hamilton would be a great fit in Utah's system.
Jazz Cop | 8:39 a.m. July 3, 2009
Hamilton is a huge upgrade at the shooting guard, he's an easy player to
like, he's always hustling. Now that detroit has gordon, they're
remaking their team--it seems like a good trade for both parties. It creates a
jam at the two guard for the jazz, but miles and brewer can also play the
three.
As for villanueva, he was probably the best forward who was available. If that's what he signed for, I don't think lee will get as much, and millsap won't get as much as lee.
As for villanueva, he was probably the best forward who was available. If that's what he signed for, I don't think lee will get as much, and millsap won't get as much as lee.
I am not sure if Millsap | 9:37 a.m. July 3, 2009
should get any more than CJ got. OR he can sign a one year deal and become an
unrestricted FA next fall.
The Jazz have approached this team more like a family than a business. That is nice and a nice management style but it has to be rethought along the lines of SA. SA has no hesitation to replace a player with a better player if needed.
The Jazz tend to get players with flaws, develop them, keep them, over pay them and then get killed by the flaws.
It has got to stop or this team will never be any better.
Millsap will have all of the limitations of Boozer without the soap opera. Further, he will not have Boozer's moves.
Most other teams are realizing that if they take Millsap out of the Jazz system that he does not fit their system as well and he will not produce the same numbers.
He is a nice guy and a hard worker and will be a great back up PF. He can start for many also ran, cellerdweller teams.
He is not the PF for the Jazz.
The Jazz have approached this team more like a family than a business. That is nice and a nice management style but it has to be rethought along the lines of SA. SA has no hesitation to replace a player with a better player if needed.
The Jazz tend to get players with flaws, develop them, keep them, over pay them and then get killed by the flaws.
It has got to stop or this team will never be any better.
Millsap will have all of the limitations of Boozer without the soap opera. Further, he will not have Boozer's moves.
Most other teams are realizing that if they take Millsap out of the Jazz system that he does not fit their system as well and he will not produce the same numbers.
He is a nice guy and a hard worker and will be a great back up PF. He can start for many also ran, cellerdweller teams.
He is not the PF for the Jazz.
If the Jazz lose Millsap | 10:08 a.m. July 3, 2009
they can probably trade CJ to HOU for Landry. He cost 3 mill and his contract is
a team option in 2010-2011.
Landry does essentially what Millsap does. Last year Landry had big salary expectations but HOU signed him cheap anyway and that was in a good economy.
Utah has to stop over paying it's role players.
Actually Fez is the player HOU would love to have. They might fork over quite a bit for him. They might even give up Aaron Brooks. However, I like Fez and think he will be useful if Boozer is gone.
Landry does essentially what Millsap does. Last year Landry had big salary expectations but HOU signed him cheap anyway and that was in a good economy.
Utah has to stop over paying it's role players.
Actually Fez is the player HOU would love to have. They might fork over quite a bit for him. They might even give up Aaron Brooks. However, I like Fez and think he will be useful if Boozer is gone.
Totally replaceable | 10:22 a.m. July 3, 2009
Compare Millsap's numbers with Koufos's.
Millsap had 13.5 points and 8.5 rebounds in 30 minutes.
Koufos had 4.7 points and 2.9 rebounds in 11+ minutes. Koufos in his second year should be able to rebound as well and maybe score better than Millsap. Plus Koufos is taller and can compete against tall line ups.
Suton should be able to do as well as Koufos plus shoot the 3.
There is not reason to get excited about Millsap. He is replaceable and quite cheaply and easily. There is nothing in Millsaps game that indicates he is going to be the next Kevin Garnett.
Millsap had 13.5 points and 8.5 rebounds in 30 minutes.
Koufos had 4.7 points and 2.9 rebounds in 11+ minutes. Koufos in his second year should be able to rebound as well and maybe score better than Millsap. Plus Koufos is taller and can compete against tall line ups.
Suton should be able to do as well as Koufos plus shoot the 3.
There is not reason to get excited about Millsap. He is replaceable and quite cheaply and easily. There is nothing in Millsaps game that indicates he is going to be the next Kevin Garnett.
Rip would be great | 11:30 a.m. July 3, 2009
No only is there no way Detroit would give us Rip and Price for Boozer, its not
even financially sound. We can only afford one or the other. Rip is going to
make 10.8 mil and Prince is going to make 9.5 mil. Boozer is in the books for 12
mil. Sorry, the numbers dont add up. A Boozer for Rip trade is more realistic,
but they just signed a PF to a 5 year contract, why would they want to take on
another PF at 12 mil for 1 year? It doesn't make sense. Unless maybe they
got villanueva as trade bait for boozer, but i doubt it, since they got
Villanueva before Boozer even decided on his contract option. Maybe a Boozer/CJ
trade for Villanueva/Prince? I dont know if the numbers add up, or if i even
like that trade if they do.
The Jazz | 11:54 a.m. July 3, 2009
have lots of options. Lets hope they start running the organziation like a
business instead of a family reunion.
I | 3:09 p.m. July 3, 2009
dont think suton will pan out to be honest, and I think Millsap should be paid
under 10 mil, because he does have his limitations. And I hope the Jazz will
somehow be able to trade either AK or Voozer because it will relieve some of the
cap problems.
^ | 3:10 p.m. July 3, 2009
Boozer*
Dear Paul | 3:26 p.m. July 3, 2009
If you really want a decent contract?
1. Most real agents have long term working relationships with 25-30 GMs and other members of team organizations. The emphasis there is on long term and working. Your uncle has a long term working relationship with no one.
Get a Real Agent. A good one will more than pay for his fees.
2. The market is bad. Don't let your hopes and ego destroy your career. Look what Ariza just did to his. The market next year will probably be just as bad. Try to get a 3 year deal with the last 2 as player options. As your game develops and as the market improves, the Jazz will renegotiate or you will get your big contract. The above contract gives you flexibility.
3. Don't drink the OKC kool aid. They have no one on there roster who makes more than 6 Million. That is by design. They are not going to start busting the bank with you. They messed with the Jazz on CJ. If they do it with you, the Jazz may return the favor when Durant, Green, and others are FAs.
More later
1. Most real agents have long term working relationships with 25-30 GMs and other members of team organizations. The emphasis there is on long term and working. Your uncle has a long term working relationship with no one.
Get a Real Agent. A good one will more than pay for his fees.
2. The market is bad. Don't let your hopes and ego destroy your career. Look what Ariza just did to his. The market next year will probably be just as bad. Try to get a 3 year deal with the last 2 as player options. As your game develops and as the market improves, the Jazz will renegotiate or you will get your big contract. The above contract gives you flexibility.
3. Don't drink the OKC kool aid. They have no one on there roster who makes more than 6 Million. That is by design. They are not going to start busting the bank with you. They messed with the Jazz on CJ. If they do it with you, the Jazz may return the favor when Durant, Green, and others are FAs.
More later
Dear Paul continued | 3:33 p.m. July 3, 2009
4. Clay Bennett used to own part of the SA Spurs. He knows what he is doing. You
do not fit that well into to the long run OKC plans. You may just be a stepping
stone in a trade down the road.
5. So far the PR effort by your "representatives" looks like a lot of obvious smoke. You need some professionals to handle this. You probably have about 15 hanger ons, planning on spending your raise. Ditch them.
6. You have worked hard and done well. However, the timing for a big raise is not optimal. Your game still needs improving before you are established and proven. Take this one step at a time and get ready for the right time and opportunity. Cut a short term flexible deal now. Position for a good long term deal later.
5. So far the PR effort by your "representatives" looks like a lot of obvious smoke. You need some professionals to handle this. You probably have about 15 hanger ons, planning on spending your raise. Ditch them.
6. You have worked hard and done well. However, the timing for a big raise is not optimal. Your game still needs improving before you are established and proven. Take this one step at a time and get ready for the right time and opportunity. Cut a short term flexible deal now. Position for a good long term deal later.
pay millsap | 4:42 p.m. July 3, 2009
the money. you will be sorry if you dont
Anonymous | 5:09 p.m. July 3, 2009
The reason that the Jazz made it to the conference finals was not because of
Fisher (although he helped). The reason the Jazz made it to the conf. finals was
because of Golden State and Don Nelson. Dallas has by far the best team in the
league that year. They lost because Nelson knew the Dallas system and
organization and could exploit their weaknesses. Dallas would have mauled the
Jazz and probably gone on to win the title. So the Jazz are on about the same
level as we were two summers ago.
With LA signing Artest, SAS getting Jefferson, POR signing Turkaglu, and Denver about to sign Grant Hill, the Jazz are falling more and more behind. We still have one of the better teams in the west, but we have definitely not made the moves to stay on par with LA and SAS.
Signing Milsap as our long term starting PF is not a good idea. He is a good role player, but not much more than that. He is shorter and not as strong as Boozer and doesn't have anywhere near the same offensive game. His D is better, but not that much.
With LA signing Artest, SAS getting Jefferson, POR signing Turkaglu, and Denver about to sign Grant Hill, the Jazz are falling more and more behind. We still have one of the better teams in the west, but we have definitely not made the moves to stay on par with LA and SAS.
Signing Milsap as our long term starting PF is not a good idea. He is a good role player, but not much more than that. He is shorter and not as strong as Boozer and doesn't have anywhere near the same offensive game. His D is better, but not that much.
Anonymous | 6:18 p.m. July 3, 2009
Milsap is another 2nd round high energy players. He reminds me a lot of Ronny
Turiaf from last years lakers team. He got a deal starting around 4.5M a year. I
think Milsap is a bit high talent than Turiaf, but not much. His contract should
start around 6M a year, but not much more. I hope he stays in Utah, but not for
the 10M a year he is hoping for.
The Ariza deal for | 7:55 p.m. July 3, 2009
the MLE pretty much establishes the market. It is unlikely that Millsap, Lee and
other bright young talents will get a much more.
Scott Berensen | 9:05 p.m. July 3, 2009
What about going after Shawn Marion? Now that Hedo's going to Toronto it
looks like he will be available. I think he would be a great pickup for the
Jazz. He not only puts up solid offensive numbers...but he is a terrific
defender as well. In addition, he is player that can play multiple positions
well. I think his versatility would be a tremendous benefit for the Jazz. And
I don't think he would be to costly...and he's still young enough to
have many more good years in him.
If we can't get him...Prince would be another good prospect to try and land. He's a lot like Marion...versatile...and a threat both offensively and defensively...and "long". Just a thought.
If we can't get him...Prince would be another good prospect to try and land. He's a lot like Marion...versatile...and a threat both offensively and defensively...and "long". Just a thought.
OKC is in a position where | 10:47 p.m. July 3, 2009
they can just sit and wait and play mind games with Utah. They have cap space,
they can cut all kinds of 3rd party sign and trade deals. If they work it right
they can go after a lot of non FAs.
Millsap is not just competing against the FAs that are left. He is competing against all of the currently signed players who might get sent out in a "fire sale" sometime this year. That is about 1/2 of the NBA.
Who knows what OKC could get. They might get a much better deal than SA (Jefferson) or CLE (Shaq) or LA (Artest).
They should be able to get the ideal player for cheap if they wait and make the right trade sometime this year.
Why pay Millsap big bucks?
Teams with Cap Space can take their time and steal some team trying to get under the luxury tax blind.
There is a reason why OKC has no player making more that 6.5 Mill. Their owner is smart. He knows OK will give him another 3 years at least to build a play off team.
Millsap is not just competing against the FAs that are left. He is competing against all of the currently signed players who might get sent out in a "fire sale" sometime this year. That is about 1/2 of the NBA.
Who knows what OKC could get. They might get a much better deal than SA (Jefferson) or CLE (Shaq) or LA (Artest).
They should be able to get the ideal player for cheap if they wait and make the right trade sometime this year.
Why pay Millsap big bucks?
Teams with Cap Space can take their time and steal some team trying to get under the luxury tax blind.
There is a reason why OKC has no player making more that 6.5 Mill. Their owner is smart. He knows OK will give him another 3 years at least to build a play off team.
Miles | 10:52 p.m. July 3, 2009
The Jazz are crazy if they offer Millsap anything over 5 million a year. He is
a role player. Just like Harpring who was overpaid. We could just let Millsap
go and allow AK to backup the 4 position. We do not need Millsap as much as we
need Boozer and we don't really need Boozer. Shawn Marion would be
horrible in Jerry's system. The bigger problem is most players would be
horrible pickups in Jerry's system. In Jerry's system you need a
great PG and PF. Everyone else could be a role player with more role on defense
than offense. You need one 3 point shooter on the floor at all times. We
could cut our payroll by 30 million that way.
Actually Millsap is competing | 11:03 p.m. July 3, 2009
against the whole NBA. Teams under the cap can make trades where the salaries
don't match.
OKC can trade small amounts of cash or a 2nd round pick back for just about any player in the league that they want. If the other team is desperate to dump enough salary to get under the luxury tax, OKC could steal some promising young talent and 1st round draft pick for next to nothing this year.
Or they could trade one of their cheap "practice players" for a great young player with a lot of upside who still has a reasonable price (4 mill or less).
OKC and SAC will have teams begging them for deals this year.
I am not sure it makes sense for OKC to make an offer on Millsap except to force the Jazz to pay more. However, they did that once (CJ) and Utah may be under the cap when OKC has to resign some of their key players. Utah might return the favor.
It is better to leave Utah alone and not bid on Millsap. OKC can get a better player for a lot cheaper and maybe an extra draft pick to boot.
OKC can trade small amounts of cash or a 2nd round pick back for just about any player in the league that they want. If the other team is desperate to dump enough salary to get under the luxury tax, OKC could steal some promising young talent and 1st round draft pick for next to nothing this year.
Or they could trade one of their cheap "practice players" for a great young player with a lot of upside who still has a reasonable price (4 mill or less).
OKC and SAC will have teams begging them for deals this year.
I am not sure it makes sense for OKC to make an offer on Millsap except to force the Jazz to pay more. However, they did that once (CJ) and Utah may be under the cap when OKC has to resign some of their key players. Utah might return the favor.
It is better to leave Utah alone and not bid on Millsap. OKC can get a better player for a lot cheaper and maybe an extra draft pick to boot.
FIRST OF ALL | 12:41 a.m. July 4, 2009
I am sick of hearing about San Antonio's brilliant cap work. If you have
Tim Duncan (who fell in their laps, Tony Parker(Who fell in their laps) and Manu
then you could put anyone around them and they will look very good. The
Jazz's problem is Williams, Okur and Boozer are a lot more guardable and
play a lot less defense than those three so the Millers have to have better
tallent to support them. $$$$$$$! One more thing the market is showing that
Milsap is only worthy of midlevel money. Thank goodness the market is poor so
GMs are not being stupid and over paying!
The Answer is? | 12:46 a.m. July 4, 2009
None of the Above! I love Milsap but he doesn't have the tallent to carry
a team. He is a second round guy for a reason. People say Charles Barkley was
short too but he had an incredible pair of legs and despite great rebounding was
known as a bad defender. Barkley and Malone never one it all. Both were short
for power forwards. Lenth is irreplacable! The Jazz need to resign Milsap and
then trade a bunch of expiring contracts for a top flight big man or let them
expire and bet on the Knicks pick!
What? | 12:48 a.m. July 4, 2009
First off, I love Millsap because of his effort and nose for the ball in
rebounding. However, why on earth would the Jazz just give him $7-$8 million+ a
year over 5 years IF nobody else offers him anything near that amount? Perhaps
the fact that he has not yet proven he can play a full year as starter without
slowing down and not getting the 20 points 10 board average that most players
get that expect to get near that $10 million threshold?
I think $6 million/yr is the most the Jazz should pay considering they are in the luxury tax and he will always be a 3rd/4th option role player at best, not a franchise player! Remember, I still like the guy a lot, but the Jazz can't afford to keep overpaying players like A.K., Boozer, Ostertag etc and remain competitive!
I think $6 million/yr is the most the Jazz should pay considering they are in the luxury tax and he will always be a 3rd/4th option role player at best, not a franchise player! Remember, I still like the guy a lot, but the Jazz can't afford to keep overpaying players like A.K., Boozer, Ostertag etc and remain competitive!
ocarcara | 5:33 a.m. July 4, 2009
I am sick of the lack of efford from Buzzer and now he comes and say he want to
stay here. The jazz must send him maybe trade with toronto. We need players that
want to be here and by Deron's side make the jazz a top team, I am sick of
just making the play-offs.
The Jazz have cap problems | 7:13 a.m. July 4, 2009
because they tend to over pay. I am hoping that is in the past. Some teams
around the league are contenders and can get role players cheaper as they are
willing to take a pay cut to play on a contender.
Even though the Jazz tend to have a good team.
The Jazz have Sloan who a lot of players do not want to play for. They have Sloan's system which requires years to learn. It is not the same as moving from one system that you know to another with minor adjustments.
It is also SL which is not (fortunately) NY, LA, CHI, MIA etc.
Some teams manage their caps well and others don't. Utah has tended to overpay veterans and tended to not get enough talent (hold total salary down). Utah has tended to be in the bottom 1/3 of the league in total salary.
You do not win championships by being cheap while you over pay the players you have.
Bad cap management has as much to do with no ring as anything.
Even though the Jazz tend to have a good team.
The Jazz have Sloan who a lot of players do not want to play for. They have Sloan's system which requires years to learn. It is not the same as moving from one system that you know to another with minor adjustments.
It is also SL which is not (fortunately) NY, LA, CHI, MIA etc.
Some teams manage their caps well and others don't. Utah has tended to overpay veterans and tended to not get enough talent (hold total salary down). Utah has tended to be in the bottom 1/3 of the league in total salary.
You do not win championships by being cheap while you over pay the players you have.
Bad cap management has as much to do with no ring as anything.
CJ3 | 9:42 a.m. July 4, 2009
Having Millsap come back at a reasonable price is the best thing that could
happen to the Jazz. Having all the key guys back, for that matter.What did LA do
to go a step further last year from the year before?
Not a thing, but stay together and get healthy.
LA was labled soft, but buckled down on D when required. Let's hope the Jazz do the same.
Not a thing, but stay together and get healthy.
LA was labled soft, but buckled down on D when required. Let's hope the Jazz do the same.
MarionMan | 10:11 a.m. July 4, 2009
Millsap led the team in 3 categories: Rebounds, blocks and field goal%. No other
teammate did that. PAY THE MAN! ! !
CJ3 | 11:11 a.m. July 4, 2009
Actually, MM, Jazz leaders in those specific stat cats were:
FG%
Fesenko 58% (played in over 20 games...doesn't seem like it, huh?)
Millsap 53%
Blks
Kirilenko 1.1
Millsap 1.0
Rebs
Boozer 10.4
Millsap 8.6
FG%
Fesenko 58% (played in over 20 games...doesn't seem like it, huh?)
Millsap 53%
Blks
Kirilenko 1.1
Millsap 1.0
Rebs
Boozer 10.4
Millsap 8.6
stats | 1:40 p.m. July 4, 2009
neither boozer, kirilenko, or fesenko played enough games to qualify to lead a
team in anything.
@CJ3&MarionMan | 2:12 p.m. July 4, 2009
Millsap had a bad April. When the Jazz needed him the most he regressed. He was
average in the last 10 games and the playoffs.
I like Millsap and I hope the Jazz get him cheap. He is fine as a back up PF and should be paid accordingly.
Boozer is the PF of last decade. Millsap is a throw back to Barkley without the shot. He is basically a rebounding specialist.
Both are outdated types of PFs. The new PF is more along the lines of Josh Smith and Lamar Odom. Long fast, athletic, and very quick.
Both Boozer and Millsap look better than they really are because they play in the Sloan system which is also outdated and designed for an old type PF. Utah is the best that they will ever do because they fit (more or less) the system. Both are too short and slow and can't defend the new type of PF.
Even if POR over pays for David Lee (assuming they actually can get him) that is no reason for Millsap to get paid a lot. If 5+ mill is to much for Gortat/Ariza, how much is to much for Millsap?
I like Millsap and I hope the Jazz get him cheap. He is fine as a back up PF and should be paid accordingly.
Boozer is the PF of last decade. Millsap is a throw back to Barkley without the shot. He is basically a rebounding specialist.
Both are outdated types of PFs. The new PF is more along the lines of Josh Smith and Lamar Odom. Long fast, athletic, and very quick.
Both Boozer and Millsap look better than they really are because they play in the Sloan system which is also outdated and designed for an old type PF. Utah is the best that they will ever do because they fit (more or less) the system. Both are too short and slow and can't defend the new type of PF.
Even if POR over pays for David Lee (assuming they actually can get him) that is no reason for Millsap to get paid a lot. If 5+ mill is to much for Gortat/Ariza, how much is to much for Millsap?
Defense | 2:17 p.m. July 4, 2009
One of the reasons the Jazz defense is so bad is because the Sloan system
requires outdated phototype players who can't guard the new types of PFs,
Cs, and SG,s.
Sloan gets players who fit his outdated system and that means they lack the speed, agility and quickness needed to defend the new types of players that are required by the modern game.
Sloan gets players who fit his outdated system and that means they lack the speed, agility and quickness needed to defend the new types of players that are required by the modern game.
todd to defense 217 | 3:07 p.m. July 4, 2009
super post....Again all of this comes back to SLoan and the
"sloanaholics"
A good 75 percent of it-
remember the ESPN POOL, Sloan (and the holics) 5th most popular coach by the fans in the Nba
Greg Miller 8th most popular owner in the NBA by the fans.
They hear this and think "we told you also"
Long As SLoan is here and has carte blanche, I say the Jazz will be unlikely even to get back to the NBA finals even if they had the talent.
If people would cancel the season tickets or do what I suggest boycott the home opener, much to the anger of the "Holics", that is what sends the message.
ALthough it is now too late. I disagreee with minor tinkering. I would be more open to it if someone else coached the Jazz. No one will give anyone a chance unless it is Hornacek. Everybody is scared.
People in life that do not go for the gusto or sit content will never advance in life.
There would be nothing better than an "outsider" like Avery or Laimbeer or Van Gundy even to come in here and do a thorough impartial analysis
A good 75 percent of it-
remember the ESPN POOL, Sloan (and the holics) 5th most popular coach by the fans in the Nba
Greg Miller 8th most popular owner in the NBA by the fans.
They hear this and think "we told you also"
Long As SLoan is here and has carte blanche, I say the Jazz will be unlikely even to get back to the NBA finals even if they had the talent.
If people would cancel the season tickets or do what I suggest boycott the home opener, much to the anger of the "Holics", that is what sends the message.
ALthough it is now too late. I disagreee with minor tinkering. I would be more open to it if someone else coached the Jazz. No one will give anyone a chance unless it is Hornacek. Everybody is scared.
People in life that do not go for the gusto or sit content will never advance in life.
There would be nothing better than an "outsider" like Avery or Laimbeer or Van Gundy even to come in here and do a thorough impartial analysis
@Todd | 7:15 p.m. July 4, 2009
The biggest questions are
1. Is the Sloan system capable of beating the triangle, the low post, high post and other prevalent systems used in the NBA?
If it is not then a coaching change and a number of player changes have to be made before the Jazz move forward.
2. Is the Sloan system capable of beating the other systems if another coach runs or modifies it?
That requires fewer changes in personnel.
3. How much of the problem is in the Jazz management practices?
That means changing the way the Jazz operate and deal with Sloan. I already see some of that now. I think there has been some shift in power away from Sloan since Greg started. I think L Miller was some of the problem like over paying.
I think Stockton might be a good coach if he wanted the job. Van Gundy is great on defense but weak on offense. Avery is pretty egotistical. Laimbeer is a ?
I suspect the Jazz would choose one of the existing assistants for the first coaching change. Some of the others would leave. Another more radical change may follow if the new coach did not produce.
1. Is the Sloan system capable of beating the triangle, the low post, high post and other prevalent systems used in the NBA?
If it is not then a coaching change and a number of player changes have to be made before the Jazz move forward.
2. Is the Sloan system capable of beating the other systems if another coach runs or modifies it?
That requires fewer changes in personnel.
3. How much of the problem is in the Jazz management practices?
That means changing the way the Jazz operate and deal with Sloan. I already see some of that now. I think there has been some shift in power away from Sloan since Greg started. I think L Miller was some of the problem like over paying.
I think Stockton might be a good coach if he wanted the job. Van Gundy is great on defense but weak on offense. Avery is pretty egotistical. Laimbeer is a ?
I suspect the Jazz would choose one of the existing assistants for the first coaching change. Some of the others would leave. Another more radical change may follow if the new coach did not produce.
The most important questions | 7:27 p.m. July 4, 2009
for the Jazz next year are not Millsap. They are
1. How to get this team to play defense?
2. How to get this team to win on the road?
3. Who will be the next generation PF (not Millsap)?
4. What other trades need to be made to produce a contender?
5. What changes are made to stay out of the luxury tax in the longer run?
The team needs more outside shooting. It needs an upgrade at SG/SF. Harp will be gone. CJ WAS not good enough, might step up. Korver can't defend well enough. Brewer has to improve shooting or needs a replacement.
Center is a question but the Jazz are committed to an outside shooting C. Koufos should be capable. Fez may provide an low post C.
The PF is the biggest ? Millsap is not better than Boozer. The Jazz are unlikely to contend with Millsap at PF. PG and PF are the most important positions in the Sloan system. It can not contend without the right PF.
Sloan knows that but loves his projects (Millsap, Collins, Price, Brewer) etc.
Do Sloan and the Jazz really want to win? Get the right PF.
1. How to get this team to play defense?
2. How to get this team to win on the road?
3. Who will be the next generation PF (not Millsap)?
4. What other trades need to be made to produce a contender?
5. What changes are made to stay out of the luxury tax in the longer run?
The team needs more outside shooting. It needs an upgrade at SG/SF. Harp will be gone. CJ WAS not good enough, might step up. Korver can't defend well enough. Brewer has to improve shooting or needs a replacement.
Center is a question but the Jazz are committed to an outside shooting C. Koufos should be capable. Fez may provide an low post C.
The PF is the biggest ? Millsap is not better than Boozer. The Jazz are unlikely to contend with Millsap at PF. PG and PF are the most important positions in the Sloan system. It can not contend without the right PF.
Sloan knows that but loves his projects (Millsap, Collins, Price, Brewer) etc.
Do Sloan and the Jazz really want to win? Get the right PF.
todd to 715 post | 7:43 p.m. July 4, 2009
I notice you do not give your name but i see several posts recently by you
lately and I think by the tone. For example, yesterday was one to the extent of
be patient, greg is making slow gains. You write well, good takes, I am always
willing to listen. A lot of great thoughts. However, picking Phil or Ty to
replace Sloan is not progress. This is the kind of thing I talk about. They
think alike, they have been together so long. For me, if A Jazz person was
going to be the coach I would go for someone like Thurl Bailey
more......Somehow, I think it would be a better defense team and I feel he is of
high intelligence when he speaks of the game and breaks it down. I agree Avery
is arrogant that is good to a point, but sure if he angers players every day it
will be rough for him. I like Laimbeer. He was a tough guy., but I have
listened to him in Shock games being wired in locker room, during timeouts. I
think he would work well and he has a presence...
@Todd | 9:33 p.m. July 4, 2009
If Sloan feels well he will keep coaching until he gets a ring. I think the best
hope is to try to get a shift in the management culture above him so his power
is reduced. He will start adapting to some extent or he will quit.
His relationship to the GM is highly unusual in professional sports. He has veto power over the GM and he is the defacto GM or informal GM. However, he is officially and formally only the coach. That allows him to deal with players on a day to day basis while claiming not to be involved with messy issues like salary.
If Greg starts shifting power to more of a group decision making approach where the power is distributed across the other positions I think you will start to see some (not a lot) of changes.
Larry had no formal education. He was an astute risk taking carsalesman/entrepreneur. Greg if I am not mistaken has a formal business back ground. He is more likely to manage base on sound business principles and less likely to fly it by his pants.
To Greg the Jazz is the PR arm of his dealerships/enterprises.
His relationship to the GM is highly unusual in professional sports. He has veto power over the GM and he is the defacto GM or informal GM. However, he is officially and formally only the coach. That allows him to deal with players on a day to day basis while claiming not to be involved with messy issues like salary.
If Greg starts shifting power to more of a group decision making approach where the power is distributed across the other positions I think you will start to see some (not a lot) of changes.
Larry had no formal education. He was an astute risk taking carsalesman/entrepreneur. Greg if I am not mistaken has a formal business back ground. He is more likely to manage base on sound business principles and less likely to fly it by his pants.
To Greg the Jazz is the PR arm of his dealerships/enterprises.
@Todd again | 9:50 p.m. July 4, 2009
I think the Jazz have primarily been run by L Miller and J Sloan for years.
Larry was very personally involved just like Cuban and the MAVs only he was less
obvious about it. He cared deeply about the Jazz, basket ball, winning and also
got personally attached to the players.
Now that Greg is the owner things are starting to change. He does not care much about basketball. However, he does care about his standing in the community, his father's legacy and running the empire well. He would like to win for a host of reasons but he is not personally involved in day to day operations nor personally attached to players.
He is probably still getting a feel for the organization and still deciding who he can get good advice from. He knows he does not know basketball and that is good. It will take him some time to figure out who in the organization makes good decisions and the power will gradually transfer to them.
In the past nobody crossed Sloan. With Larry gone that might start to change. His informal power may start to erode if he does not produce quickly.
Now that Greg is the owner things are starting to change. He does not care much about basketball. However, he does care about his standing in the community, his father's legacy and running the empire well. He would like to win for a host of reasons but he is not personally involved in day to day operations nor personally attached to players.
He is probably still getting a feel for the organization and still deciding who he can get good advice from. He knows he does not know basketball and that is good. It will take him some time to figure out who in the organization makes good decisions and the power will gradually transfer to them.
In the past nobody crossed Sloan. With Larry gone that might start to change. His informal power may start to erode if he does not produce quickly.
Our biggest mistake | 7:41 p.m. July 5, 2009
was signing miles to 16 mil over 4 years, what a bust,he actually makes AK`s
contract look decent.Dump miles,harpring(love him but he`s done),knight and
collins,Sloan is a good coach,doing the best job with what he has,SUPPORT OUR
JAZZ,fill up ESA every night!!!! GO JAZZ!!GO SLOAN!!!
NYJazzFan | 11:34 a.m. July 6, 2009
Utah should sign Milsap for the MLE, nothing more.. Trade Boozer for Curry
(NYK). Curry avg 19pts and 7bds playing at half speed. If he were to play under
sloan and in this system he would avg 20pts and 10bds easy.. He is a better
defender than all the bigs on the current Jazz roster (with exception of AK). He
can guard all the bigs in the league.. Comments?
THEeyepatch | 6:31 p.m. July 6, 2009
The "Arm Chair" GM's are certainly out today. Here's
something to ponder, Jazz don't make the playoffs next year.......PERIOD!
Trade him for who, sign who for him, don't lose this player, don't
sign that player......please. Then you have your financial advisors...please.
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Would not Millsap's numbers also drop. Further, there are some major holes in Millsap's game. Is he anything more than a rebound specialist, who hustles. He can't shoot the 3. His range is limited. He has trouble defending tall athletic front lines just like Boozer.
AK's numbers dropped about 25% when he moved from PF to SF. If Millsap's numbers dropped that much, how much is he really worth?
The bigger problem for the Jazz is if they keep him. He is not going to solve Boozer's limitations and he is going to have his own serious limitations. He is not the PF that Utah needs to win a championship.
During the next 2 years Utah needs to get the right PF. If Utah does that what is Millsap's role? Especially if he has been starting? Do the Jazz sign him and then trade him for the right PF?
It is better to let Millsap go than to pay to much for him.