Deseret News | Mormon Twentysomething on MormonTimes.com: Don't listen to the marriage cynics

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Mormon Twentysomething on MormonTimes.com: Don't listen to the marriage cynics

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Anonymous | 9:38 a.m. July 6, 2009

I don't think age really has anything to do with divorce rates. For instance, in Mexico the average age of marriage is 20 years old, yet there divorce rate is about 30%.

Arbitrary | 9:47 a.m. July 6, 2009

More often than not marriages fail because one or both parties are unwilling to put in the work required of marriage. Marriage must be a compromise on both partners end. Problems must be worked out. If you are unwilling to work at it, don't bother getting married.

Emily | 9:57 a.m. July 6, 2009

LDS church puts families and marriages first in importance and I don't think anything will ever change their priorities.

Comments continue below

Sarah Nicole | 10:10 a.m. July 6, 2009

Great article McKay. Thanks for bringing attention to how many people in and out of the Mormon Church are so cynical about marriage these days. I do not know the solution to overcome this problem. I feel a little hopeless at reading how many people do not consider marriage sacred or special.

baffled | 10:12 a.m. July 6, 2009

why is everyone so down on the institution of marriage? Surely there are many people who have great marriages?

USU Girl | 10:15 a.m. July 6, 2009

I've been married for 7 months now. I married at 20 years old and my husband was 21 and just off his mission. I can relate to what Mr. Copins has gone through because when I told my family and friend that we were going to get married I was met with shock and disbelief that we would even consider getting married at such a young age.

Marriage is personal and between you, your spouse and the Lord. Only you can decide if and when marriage is right for you.

My 2 Cents | 10:27 a.m. July 6, 2009

Why are people trying to link Age and Divorce? I'm pretty sure that correlation does not mean causation.
In determining if marriage is the right decision, I think things need to be taken on a case by case basis. I know plenty of 18 year olds that are more mature that some 30 year olds as well as the other way around. It is a personal decision and I think we are in no place to judge people. I had some mission companions that were adamant that people should be older before they got married and I thought to myself (knowing their maturity) that their opinion was one that reflected well what they themselves should probably do.

The ShamWow Guy | 10:29 a.m. July 6, 2009

The reality of this day and age is that most of the members of the LDS faith will have either experienced divorce through their parents or they will experienced divorce first-hand. This is a much different and diverse membership than the Church has ever had to deal with. The dynamics and unique problems this creates are something that the Church has already started to address.

LV Student | 11:36 a.m. July 6, 2009

The rising divorce rate in the Mormon church is a silent problem that nobody wants to admit or acknowledge.

Anonymous | 12:30 p.m. July 6, 2009

re: Gwen | 11:16 a.m. July 3, 2009

If love transcends ethnicity, religious preference, etc... then so be it. Why limit yourself?

There have to be some similiarites, common interests, values, etc... but it takes hard work from both parties regardless.

Seeking Facts | 1:56 p.m. July 6, 2009

LV Student.
Can you site your source? Seriously. I would like to read about that.

Anon | 1:57 p.m. July 6, 2009

Who's to say that if you get married young, that you HAVEN'T found the right one? I've been married for almost 3 years now and we dated for about 2 years before we got married. I was 21 and he was 23. I'd like to think we've got a pretty good track record so far! People who say getting married young is stupid. And, why is it so stupid? Because, well, you're young? What makes you think getting married later in life will make you all the more happy? I would think getting married later would make you even more bitter and cynical toward the whole idea since you are set in your ways and didn't want something serious when you were younger - You just wanted to "play". All of the "Shacking up is better" comments are rediculous. Sure, if you're into that kind of thing, fine. But as a faithful LDS member, I was looking for much more in my eternal companion than just that.

Answring a question | 2:08 p.m. July 6, 2009

2 answers -

#1) As a faithful LDS person I believe the concept of "THE ONE" is completely faulty. We ask God if we can exercise our free agency with this man or woman and he says, "sure" and we assume there was only one. Saturday's Warrior has given us this doctrine.

#2) As a man of the world, getting married young makes it more likely that a marriage is doomed. It is a fact and it doesn't mean YOUR marriage is, or anybody's, but it makes the risk much higher. It is HILARIOUS that the writer says, after two weeks, "the water is just fine".

Wait for the rapids kid, hope you do well.

LV Student | 2:13 p.m. July 6, 2009

To Seeking Facts,

There are several studies which show that LDS divorce rate is on the rise. A pretty comprehensive study (but a little out-dated) is:

William Lobdell, Holy Matrimony: In an Era of Divorce are Mormon Temple Weddings Built to Last? in Los Angeles Times, 8 April 2000.

DMH | 2:31 p.m. July 6, 2009

I think that unless both people entering into marriage know who they are individually and are comfortable with themselves, there is no way the marriage can work. You have to know who you are and also know who the person you are marrying is. You need to be able to talk to each other as friends without any unreasonable expectations from your spouse. I have been married for almost 14 years and it has been a lot of work, but I know who I am and I know what I want in my marriage. I also know how to approach my husband to discuss our problems in a loving manner. We dated each other for a whole year before we got married and we talked about what each of us expected from our life together. We have received many blessings and have had heartaches, too. However, we continue to live the Gospel and as long as you do that it does not matter if you are married or single.

Anonymous | 2:32 p.m. July 6, 2009

Divorce rate is higher today because women leave their husbands when they are treated poorly. In the 1920s and 30s women felt like they couldn't leave. Unfortunately 50% of men don't deserve to be with a woman because they don't treat them like they should.

RE: WSU Cougar | 2:39 p.m. July 6, 2009

WSU Cougar said "I married very soon after my mission. I can't imagine life as a single. Being married is so much better."

Question is how would you know if it is better living married or single when you were married at age 21?

I love how Mormons get on this board and continually talk down science. It doesn't matter what the topic is, the Mormons know better than science and statistics. In reality (a world few Mormons know) it is best to get married after a few years of real world living. Anecdotal evidence doesn't do it for me; sure those who get maried young can make it work, but you stack the deck against yourself. Marriage isn't easy so you might as well avoid variable that make it more difficult for your marriage to succeed. Or you can just ignore and get divorced young, but who knows you might be the outlier.

test of time | 3:03 p.m. July 6, 2009

Lots of experts commenting. It makes me laugh. I've been happily married for about 4 years now, which means I'm no where near qualified to tell you what makes a successful marriage. I'm trying to figure that out everday, and I hope at the end of my life I will have the answers. Opinions, methods, and ideas about what makes a successful marriage change with time. I think this article rubbed people the wrong way because it was coming from a 22 year old who knows nothing yet about marriage, just as I don't. The only people who should be giving opinions or writing articles about marriage are those who have been married for 50 years plus. The rest of you should keep quiet for a few more years.

Anonymous | 4:23 p.m. July 6, 2009

@ test of time:

I disagree with your premise completely. The only people who know anything about marriage are those have been married 50 years plus? The world is very different today than it was 50 years ago, and fresh challenges are facing this generation that someone who has been married 50 years or more would know nothing about. The point of this article was to debunk faulty statistics utilized by the "cynics" and to remind everyone that the decision is between the two parties and the Lord. Anyone else who thinks they know anything about your relationship (no matter how long they've been married) is wasting their time.

Re: CJ3 | 4:29 p.m. July 6, 2009

Oh gee whiz, really, is there really a world outside of my little Utah bubble? Oh gosh golly gee I didn't know that. Thank you for letting me know, you are so smart. I feel more tolerant already. Hey wait a second. I have lived in 5 different states and 2 different countries. Hmmm... didn't really notice members outside of Utah being more tolerant. Most LDS people I know are very tolerant, in and out of Utah.

And BTW. Most divorces are caused by selfishness. Which is growing rampantly inside and outside the LDS Church. Members who truly live their religion are extremely unlikely to get divorced.

Anonymous | 4:43 p.m. July 6, 2009

Why do people place so much importance on money and careers? You can always get richer, always get another promotion, etc. As you wait to become more qualified for marriage, or to establish a more stable life, you may wake up and realize you missed out on years of invaluable memories and fun. There's a great danger in saying, "maybe tomorrow" because tomorrow will never come if you always push it off and rationalize your way out of commitment.

What is everyone waiting for? Is there a certain job position and income you should be at before you are "mature" enough to get married?

Is there a certain number of months you have to date before deciding you love someone and have a good idea of who they are? Is there a certain number of steady relationships you should be in before you're mature enough for marriage?

I submit that there is not. Everyone's different. Let their choices and situations be.

McKay- good luck. Way to take charge today, instead of waiting for tomorrow.

Ghost | 5:13 p.m. July 6, 2009

As other have said more eloquently than I can, if you serve your spouse and put them ahead of yourself, you will always love them and divorce will never come into the picture. Today, as a society, we are more concered with ourselves than our spouses. That causes divorce.

Anonymous | 6:34 p.m. July 6, 2009

As usual, McKay is burying his head in wishful-thinking sand.

Solid research shows that the 6% figure cited by Judd is extremely inaccurate because members of the Church who have their marriage sealed in a temple ceremony and who subsequently divorce most often do NOT have their temple sealing cancelled! They only divorce civilly and avoid the rather complex and embarassing "cancellation of temple sealing" (divorce) procedures. Thus, their divorces are not counted in Judd's figures.

Additionally, because men can be sealed to more than one spouse in the temple, including living spouses, remarrying in a second temple ceremony counts as TWO temple marriages and ZERO temple divorces -- thus reducing the apparent divorce rate among LDS!

The truth is 24% of Mormon marriages end in divorce -- a number statistically equal to the divorce rate among all Americans. Members of non-denominational churches (typically Fundamentalist in teaching) and born-again Christians experience a significantly higher divorce rate! Meanwhile, those of us who are Agnostics and Atheists have a much LOWER rate of divorce than even Temple-married Mormons!

I know a young couple who listened to McKay's type of wishful-thinking 3-years-ago. They divorced last week.

CJ3 | 8:59 p.m. July 6, 2009

Thanks for proving my point with your belittling sarcasm, Re: CJ3.

Steve out in Herriman | 10:13 p.m. July 6, 2009

McKay,

43% of people who marry at age 22 or younger will divorce. Just google it to find out.

Good luck, and here's hoping that you are in the 57% that will make it.

John in Michigan | 10:23 p.m. July 6, 2009

If there is any lesson to be learned from McKay's early marriage, it would be that we all should wait, pray and not rush into marriage.

CJ3 | 11:44 p.m. July 6, 2009

Alright, I'll toss one out there, too.

My Mormon parents have each been married 3 times...each time to a Mormon.

That's 4 out of 6 marriages failed, at various ages.

I didn't care for the mathematical results on that, btw. lol

On a side note: "Mormon" is a proper noun and should be treated as such

McBee | 1:40 a.m. July 7, 2009

Married young works, if you want to be miserable and regret missing out on your youth. I lost two years on a mission, four to a miserable marriage. There is to much pressure on these items. Let people grow and become there on person without putting to much pressure.

John C. | 3:42 a.m. July 7, 2009

I find it quite interesting that on a site dedicated to members of the LDS church, how many anti LDS have to make their negative comments. They just can’t let us alone can they.
As a side note my wife and I where married 3 months after I got home from my mission and 25 years later I still wouldn’t want to be with anyone else.
Someone else has already said it but I would like to add to it. Selfishness and pride will kill any relationship, weather you marry young or older. We in general have become a selfish society. That is why I believe marriage is hurting even in the church. When you get married ya just have to grow up.

Anti-LDS?? | 8:05 a.m. July 7, 2009

John most of the commenters on this site are LDS. Are you suggesting that I, an RM who pays 10% annually, am anti-LDS? Also, what does the weather have to do with this? Whether or not you are happy after 25 years does not mean that other people will be happy from following your foolish example. Getting married young is not wise and creates all sorts of problems for couples. If those couples would wait a few years they could be just as happy and have a much greater chance at success, that is all the commentators are trying to get across. Marriage is a sacred institution and should not be entered into lightly, I think that is the point of the anti-young marriage crowd. As LDS we need to get over the persecution complex.

Time Not Age | 8:54 a.m. July 7, 2009

I wish there were statistics about marital success based on time spent on the courtship period. I believe there are many people who are younger with more than enough maturity to make a marriage successful and many who are older who do not have that maturity. To me, the much bigger problem in our LDS culture is the pressure marry quickly once you find the "one". No marriage will be perfect but there are certain personality mismatches or differences in general (how to approach conflict or finances for example) that are VERY TOUGH to overcome in a marriage no matter how "active" in the Church you both may be. The Lord blessed us each with a unique personality and not all personalities are good matches. Some are actually very poor matches. But that is often masked by the euphoria and emotions (not spirit) of early courtship.

Forget age - if you are mature enough to SLOW DOWN, enjoy your courtship without the pressure to rush into anything, enjoy the butterfly stage without making marital decisions during them, and get to know each other well - your chances for a successful marriage will increase dramatically!!!!!

Bigger Question For McKay | 9:33 a.m. July 7, 2009

I could care less how old you are. The real question that may impact your marital success down the road is how long did you and your wife spend getting to know one another? Do you know how each responds to stress, conflict, dissapointment? I hope you do. It is very easy for our youth to put on their best face for a month or two or three. But that is not what real marriage is all about. You also have to get down in the trenches and together deal with the difficulties of marriage and life in general. Hopefully you spent enough time getting to know one another to know if your partnership is one that can do that together well or not. The Gospel and the Lord is an important part of a marriage - but it is not the answer for all problems in a marriage.

LDS youth and older singles - you can still be living the Gospel to it's fullest if you just slow down and make your courtship a time to really, really get to know one another. Anyone who encourages you to rush is doing you a huge disfavor!!

SLC gal | 10:20 a.m. July 7, 2009

Oh my gosh, the guy got married. It's not earth shattering people!!! Everyone has to decide whats right for him or her! Congrats Mckay!!!!!!!!!

Simmer down | 10:57 a.m. July 7, 2009

Wow! That is what I love about these comment boards.. people getting all worked up over such stupid trivial things. I would really hate to run into any of you on the street just in case you have something to say about, well, anything! It's so nice to be reminded of how rude and stupid our modern day society is. Thanks guys! Alright, I'm done here. You may now continue to make your shallow and judgmental comments.

It's a gamble no matter what | 11:18 a.m. July 7, 2009

There are no guarantees in marriage no matter who, where or when you marry. We've been married for 22 years -- have five kids -- dated for SEVEN years before marrying and our marriage has not been problem free. We’ve been through good and bad times together — and have learned to love and support each other even when we didn’t agree about everything. McKay mentioned listening to the spirit and to leaders and parents when considering marriage. I would caution those considering marriage to listen ONLY to the spirit — and it helps to be able to discern the spirit from our own desires. Parents and "leaders" can be wrong. They may mean well, but the only being who KNOWS what is best for you is your Father in Heaven. Consider what others have to say - they may see things you don't, but understand they are not infallible in their opinions and what they say should be considered carefully -- very carefully. Understand that we all grow and change throughout our lives and expect your spouse to change — and allow and even encourage positive change. Learn to be flexible and enjoy the ride!

DCnTN | 4:55 p.m. July 7, 2009

Twenty eight years ago this fall, at age 21 I married a beautiful 22 year old girl. We got engaged in 19 days. In retrospect that was a rash thing to do and we were lucky it never came back to haunt us. Prince Charles and Princess Diana got married just a few weeks before us. We were penniless and I felt like a failure as I watched all the pomp and ceremony of the royal wedding.

But we had something on our side. It was character. We had a temple marriage that we were both worthy to be in. We had both dated a lot and knew what we were looking for. My fiance had just graduated from college.

It has worked out unbelievably well and we have a wonderful marriage. I can't help but contrast it our marriage with Charles and Diana's. They should have had every statistical advantage in the world in their favor, yet had a most unhappy marriage.

What kind of person you are and your attitude towards marriage trumps all.

Anonymous | 5:29 p.m. July 7, 2009

To DCnTN

How wonderful for you that you are a superior person of "character", above the rest of the world in your personal righteousness and moral superiority!

Do the words "arrogant" and "hypocrite" mean anything to you?

Re: DCnTN | 7:01 p.m. July 7, 2009

I guess your saying it was the temple marriage that made it work? Pulleeeze.

DCnTN | 11:14 a.m. July 8, 2009

to Anon 5:29. Arrogant, yes, hypocrite, no. Sorry I ruffled your feathers.

Kathy | 1:32 p.m. Aug. 6, 2009

I have a question....if two people that were sealed to their spouses in the temple and have an affair with each other that breaks up both their previous marriages, can they ever be sealed to each other?

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