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Jazz plan to re-sign Millsap — unless offer's 'crazy'
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Hard work pays off | 11:06 p.m. July 1, 2009
It is good to see a 2nd round pick have this kind of success with hard work
and hustle both on the court and in the weight room. I would love to see the
Jazz resign Milsap but wish him the best whatever happens.
I was wondering where he would have gone in this years draft, I think 3 or 4, now he is there for the taking just cough up 10 million a year. and the Jazz with their salary cap troubles arnt' going to pay 23 million a year to keep him.
I was wondering where he would have gone in this years draft, I think 3 or 4, now he is there for the taking just cough up 10 million a year. and the Jazz with their salary cap troubles arnt' going to pay 23 million a year to keep him.
todd "meanwhile suprise!" | 11:18 p.m. July 1, 2009
Meanwhile, the competition gets likely better, post#1 beat me to it. So watch
Ariza goes to Portland or Houston, Hedo to Portland
If that happens "sloan lovers" or i am sorry "holics" you still love your squad Kev
By the way Avery could become Pistons coach anyday, then again many of you prefered "jer"
what a joke...
If that happens "sloan lovers" or i am sorry "holics" you still love your squad Kev
By the way Avery could become Pistons coach anyday, then again many of you prefered "jer"
what a joke...
Comments continue below
Unrestricted Free Agents | 11:27 p.m. July 1, 2009
left include Kidd, Varajao, Smith, Szczerbiak, Bass, Bibby, Pachulia, Andersen
(Birdman), Iverson, Wallace, McDyess, Artest, Wafer, Nesterovic, Ariza, Odom,
Andre Miller, Barnes, Hill, Gooden, Marion and a host of lesser names.
Restricted agents include several big names. Childress, Big Baby Davis, Kleiza, Jack, McRoberts, Novak, Brown, Session, Lee, Robinson, Gortat, Diogu, and Delfino.
Would you prefer any of the above over Millsap? Only two of them is likely to get more than the mid level exception from a cap team. Only POR and OKC are likely bidders who will exceed 5.6 mill. SAC does not seem to be very active and ATL has its own FAs.
This is a very weak market. That is why Boozer, Okur and Korver all folded their bluffs.
The market is weak.
Restricted agents include several big names. Childress, Big Baby Davis, Kleiza, Jack, McRoberts, Novak, Brown, Session, Lee, Robinson, Gortat, Diogu, and Delfino.
Would you prefer any of the above over Millsap? Only two of them is likely to get more than the mid level exception from a cap team. Only POR and OKC are likely bidders who will exceed 5.6 mill. SAC does not seem to be very active and ATL has its own FAs.
This is a very weak market. That is why Boozer, Okur and Korver all folded their bluffs.
The market is weak.
Anonymous | 12:42 a.m. July 2, 2009
I think the offer sheets that Paul might received is between 10 to 12 million
which the Jazz can match, otherwise if it higher than 12 million then the Jazz
may say goodbye to him, unless we trade immediately Boozer for role players and
future draft picks to save some salary cap..good luck to Jazz
Anonymous | 12:59 a.m. July 2, 2009
I still believe that Boozer is gone.
5 years 40 to 45 million is what a team will offer Millsap. The Jazz will resign him at that
5 years 40 to 45 million is what a team will offer Millsap. The Jazz will resign him at that
Scenario | 1:06 a.m. July 2, 2009
OK City still needs to save money for next year re-signings, so they cant offer
$10 Million+. In this tight market, anything over $6M or $7M would seem to be
too much for an undersized player that needs more time to prove himself a
starter for a FULL Season. $7M is already 10 times his past salary, any more
than that we should cut and run.
The Jazz should not overpay for potential, look what happened when they did that for Ostertag and Kirilenko! Still paying the hefty price for that huge mistake!
The Jazz should not overpay for potential, look what happened when they did that for Ostertag and Kirilenko! Still paying the hefty price for that huge mistake!
todd from santa ana | 1:16 a.m. July 2, 2009
i wish boozer was gone, but who will take him now? Dumars doubted they will do
it now if you read his quotes. They made 2 big signings. If Millsap stays this
cap is way way over for one year i do not think end of world. However, we need
to free up payroll so next year we can be in serious running for names.
Portland if they can get Ariza will be closing on La, Denver and SPurs. They become 4th best in West at Worse. You still have fine Dallas squad who finished pretty well. The Clippers I feel will be vastly improved, baron Davis is fired up about this season. Houston if Gortat signed still playoff team, New Orleans wow done nothing either, but just like last season.
Portland if they can get Ariza will be closing on La, Denver and SPurs. They become 4th best in West at Worse. You still have fine Dallas squad who finished pretty well. The Clippers I feel will be vastly improved, baron Davis is fired up about this season. Houston if Gortat signed still playoff team, New Orleans wow done nothing either, but just like last season.
Re: Anonymmous 12:59 | 1:23 a.m. July 2, 2009
I think you're wrong. Milsap will not be offered $9MM per year. I
don't think the Jazz should sign him for more than $4-$5MM per year. If he
gets offered more than that I say let him go.
I hate the Lakers but think Odom or Ariza would fit in well with the Jazz. I have no idea who is after them, but the Jazz won't get either.
I love BirdMan, but he'll likely stay in Denver. A defender like BirdMan or Odom would help the Jazz a lot.
Boozer is staying with the Jazz to finish out his contract. He has good value to the Jazz - if he doesn't break a nail putting him out of commission he's 20/10 guy and a big expiring contract. If the Jazz trade him they'd better get good value.
I hate the Lakers but think Odom or Ariza would fit in well with the Jazz. I have no idea who is after them, but the Jazz won't get either.
I love BirdMan, but he'll likely stay in Denver. A defender like BirdMan or Odom would help the Jazz a lot.
Boozer is staying with the Jazz to finish out his contract. He has good value to the Jazz - if he doesn't break a nail putting him out of commission he's 20/10 guy and a big expiring contract. If the Jazz trade him they'd better get good value.
Chuck Nunn | 1:57 a.m. July 2, 2009
Millsap is not getting a $10M per year offer. He's not at that stage in his
career yet. He'll get an offer of between $5M and $6M, and Utah will match.
Don't hold your breath for a Boozer trade either. Jerry Sloan is on the
record about how pleased he is to have both Boozer and Okur back, so I'll
believe there's a trade when I see it. The drama is gone out of Utah's
offseason, check out Oracle for more ...
Peace out from the Jazz Oracle!
Peace out from the Jazz Oracle!
Eugene | 4:41 a.m. July 2, 2009
Milsap has proven his worth with guts and work ethic. If the ball is in the
air, Paul usually is the guy who retrieves it.
The Jazz will have to pay to keep him, but please work out a deal to trade Booze sooner than later!
If not, Milsap as a starter sounds real good to me! Boozer as his back-up would make Carlos work harder and attempt some "D". If he is hurt again this year, he stands to end his career in Utah since no other team would take him although the Jazz would significantly lower his salary.
Milsap is only going to get better if given more playing time.
The Jazz will have to pay to keep him, but please work out a deal to trade Booze sooner than later!
If not, Milsap as a starter sounds real good to me! Boozer as his back-up would make Carlos work harder and attempt some "D". If he is hurt again this year, he stands to end his career in Utah since no other team would take him although the Jazz would significantly lower his salary.
Milsap is only going to get better if given more playing time.
The Market is saying | 7:11 a.m. July 2, 2009
the Jazz payroll is bloated. The Jazz have over paid their veterans for years.
It is one of the major problems with this club. It is built into the Sloan
biases and system.
However, it is a function of the management philosophy. Compare the Jazz to SA (how many rings). They understand the word role player. Role players are inter changing parts. There is little need for continuity. How often has SA changed parts and kept their aging team at peak performance?
The root of the problem is a blind faith in the Sloan system that never can afford enough of the right veterans to win more than a trip to the playoffs. The system is complex, so continuity can improve performance, but the system is expensive and slows the development of cheaper younger players. The system also insures enough medium success that the Jazz get low draft picks.
There is a reason that many ex Jazz players do not find success elsewhere. They never did have a lot of talent.
Sloan thrives on taking flawed players and improving them. However, he can't improve them enough. They are still flawed.
Start with enough talent. Get a new system.
However, it is a function of the management philosophy. Compare the Jazz to SA (how many rings). They understand the word role player. Role players are inter changing parts. There is little need for continuity. How often has SA changed parts and kept their aging team at peak performance?
The root of the problem is a blind faith in the Sloan system that never can afford enough of the right veterans to win more than a trip to the playoffs. The system is complex, so continuity can improve performance, but the system is expensive and slows the development of cheaper younger players. The system also insures enough medium success that the Jazz get low draft picks.
There is a reason that many ex Jazz players do not find success elsewhere. They never did have a lot of talent.
Sloan thrives on taking flawed players and improving them. However, he can't improve them enough. They are still flawed.
Start with enough talent. Get a new system.
The Sloan System | 7:43 a.m. July 2, 2009
at least run by Sloan and supported by past management practices is a self
limiting system.
It has mechanisms built into the system that prevent championships. But it also tends to produce playoff teams under the salary cap. That of course is not true this year.
I am not apposed to the system if it were run and implemented better. It has several advantages. However, years of experience and mediocre results strongly indicate something needs to be changed.
The fans focus on the players and their weaknesses but the true problems are with the implementation of the system. Sloan and management retain and over pay players (instead of replace)who work hard but who lack enough talent to ever make the system produce a championship.
The root problems are in the Sloan biases and management approach of treating the players like family. That has advantages but it is not working.
Instead of taking a flawed player and giving them years to work, the Jazz need to recruit talent and replace players based on performance.
There is a built in bias against making needed changes until there is a crisis.
It has mechanisms built into the system that prevent championships. But it also tends to produce playoff teams under the salary cap. That of course is not true this year.
I am not apposed to the system if it were run and implemented better. It has several advantages. However, years of experience and mediocre results strongly indicate something needs to be changed.
The fans focus on the players and their weaknesses but the true problems are with the implementation of the system. Sloan and management retain and over pay players (instead of replace)who work hard but who lack enough talent to ever make the system produce a championship.
The root problems are in the Sloan biases and management approach of treating the players like family. That has advantages but it is not working.
Instead of taking a flawed player and giving them years to work, the Jazz need to recruit talent and replace players based on performance.
There is a built in bias against making needed changes until there is a crisis.
Kirilenko's contract | 7:51 a.m. July 2, 2009
The Jazz are in trouble because of Larry giving Kirilenko max money a few years
back. Andrei is worthless and is the most overpaid player in the league.
If the Jazz lose Millsap | 8:12 a.m. July 2, 2009
it will not be the end of the world. He is not the starting PF the Jazz need to
win a championship. He will eventually develop into good PF on a playoff team
but he has too many flaws to be better than Boozer and Boozer is not good
enough.
Sometimes you have to let good people go to replace them with better. Letting go is not a strength for the Jazz. Would you rather have Mo Williams or DWill? Since the Jazz are dependent on PG, DWill is necessary.
The Jazz drafted Suton as insurance for losing Boozer, Okur or Millsap. Millsap is a better rebounder but Suton is a better shooter. Neither are particularly fast nor agile. Suton is probably a better defender. Both need to improve post moves.
If Millsap is gone and the Jazz can't use Koufos or Suton as a replacement, just look at the list of free agents. A back up PF is not a problem.
The Jazz need up grades at all starting positions except DWill. The current players are under performing and overpaid.
The Jazz need to learn to let go so they can get better.
Sometimes you have to let good people go to replace them with better. Letting go is not a strength for the Jazz. Would you rather have Mo Williams or DWill? Since the Jazz are dependent on PG, DWill is necessary.
The Jazz drafted Suton as insurance for losing Boozer, Okur or Millsap. Millsap is a better rebounder but Suton is a better shooter. Neither are particularly fast nor agile. Suton is probably a better defender. Both need to improve post moves.
If Millsap is gone and the Jazz can't use Koufos or Suton as a replacement, just look at the list of free agents. A back up PF is not a problem.
The Jazz need up grades at all starting positions except DWill. The current players are under performing and overpaid.
The Jazz need to learn to let go so they can get better.
astroboy | 8:17 a.m. July 2, 2009
Regardless of all the other things surrounding the Jazz roster and payroll,
Milsap is not worth 10M+/year. The Jazz should not break the bank to keep an
(albeit above average) role player on the roster. It would be nice to see both
sides show a little loyalty in negotiations and settle on a deal in the 5-7M
range, which is still just above what he's probably worth, but still allows
the Jazz to get value out of him.
PS loved the analysis by 'the market' @7:11am, I agree that the Jazz system all the way from management down to playing style is conditioned for mediocrity and stunts the growth of young players and well and hinders the flow of interchangeable players. SA is absolutely the perfect example, get a few great players and continually reload around them.
PS loved the analysis by 'the market' @7:11am, I agree that the Jazz system all the way from management down to playing style is conditioned for mediocrity and stunts the growth of young players and well and hinders the flow of interchangeable players. SA is absolutely the perfect example, get a few great players and continually reload around them.
Anonymous | 8:23 a.m. July 2, 2009
Do you guys really think that your rants on this message board will change
things? Just sit back and enjoy the drama. It is still interesting to be a
Jazz fan!
THEeyepatch | 8:25 a.m. July 2, 2009
With all the big free-agent signings, were just happy to get back the same old
players. If we make the playoffs next season it will be a shock to me. Typical
Jazz: meet the status quo!
todd from santa ana | 8:29 a.m. July 2, 2009
hmmm maybe my one game boycott idea from last season could be
reintroduced...Sloan elated to have Snoozie and Okur back...
Better play like Phoenix and win every game 120-119
Only way i see it
Better play like Phoenix and win every game 120-119
Only way i see it
the same team? | 8:30 a.m. July 2, 2009
Paying the luxury tax to hold on to 8th in the West? Does that really make sense
to anyone? Everyone folds on their "I'm getting out" talk and
returns for their option years. Are we expecting that the Jazz can do better
than last year with the same players?
Anonymous | 8:35 a.m. July 2, 2009
Even if OKC front loads a contract starting at 10 to 12 mil the first year and 5
to 6 the next 3 years the jazz could still match that if they're looking
long term. I don't see Milsap as an all star, like Boozer can be, but he
will be a solid player for years to come. ANd the fact is the Jazz are better
with both Boozer and Milsap and I would love to see them play together for one
more season. If everyone stays healthy the Jazz could make a championship run
with their current roster.
I don't think the Jazz should trade Boozer, unless they could get future lottery picks, or players with similar contracts
As to the reason why SA was so good for so long, it has little to do with systems, coaches, or savvy managers. The fact is if SA hadn't won the draft to get Tim Dunkin they wouldn't have any championships
I don't think the Jazz should trade Boozer, unless they could get future lottery picks, or players with similar contracts
As to the reason why SA was so good for so long, it has little to do with systems, coaches, or savvy managers. The fact is if SA hadn't won the draft to get Tim Dunkin they wouldn't have any championships
LA is willing to let | 8:37 a.m. July 2, 2009
Ariza go and pursue Odom.Why? For LA the SG, PF and to some extent the C are
crucial positions for the triangle offense. The SF and PG are less important.
Ariza is younger and has more potential than Odom but back up PF is more important to their success. It is easier for them replace the skills that Ariza brings.
For the Jazz PG and PF are the crucial positions. Neither, Boozer nor Millsap are good enough at that position. They are both good but not good enough. Okur is also not good enough at C.
AK got a max contract because he was playing PF and the Jazz thought he could get them back to the playoffs fast. In the meantime Boozer displaced him.
The Jazz have to let go of Boozer and eventually Millsap in order to win the West. The have to have the ideal PF, a better C and enough better role players to win the West.
They really need a better coach, defense, more outside shooters and rebounding.
They need to aggressively upgrade as the right opportunities develop.
The test of this organization is now. Will they let go to get better?
Ariza is younger and has more potential than Odom but back up PF is more important to their success. It is easier for them replace the skills that Ariza brings.
For the Jazz PG and PF are the crucial positions. Neither, Boozer nor Millsap are good enough at that position. They are both good but not good enough. Okur is also not good enough at C.
AK got a max contract because he was playing PF and the Jazz thought he could get them back to the playoffs fast. In the meantime Boozer displaced him.
The Jazz have to let go of Boozer and eventually Millsap in order to win the West. The have to have the ideal PF, a better C and enough better role players to win the West.
They really need a better coach, defense, more outside shooters and rebounding.
They need to aggressively upgrade as the right opportunities develop.
The test of this organization is now. Will they let go to get better?
Utah Man | 8:39 a.m. July 2, 2009
RE: "The Market Is Saying"
Such insight on how to make an NBA franchise work. I'm blown away! What is it you do for a living? GM in the Eastern Conf.? Player Personnel? I'm wondering what your philosophy is on the Jackson/Riley systems? Maybe your expertise is in how to run a small market franchise and still be competitive and profitable with the larger market teams. I suppose you would think that the Jazz organization should be a non-profit enterprise. Therefore they could get a "new system" which would allow them to sign the "Big Name" players w/ talent that the Jazz have never had. Alot of people don't like Coach Sloan's style. I would prefer to know what I'm getting when I lay down the bucks$$$ for season tickets and Sloan has provided winning basketball consistently for a very long time. More power to Sloan for doing it with the "flawed/no talent" players you suggest the Jazz have! SA does have rings and many changing parts. There system isn't much different from the Jazz. Would you call Tim Duncan a role player or a star? Send them your resume!
Such insight on how to make an NBA franchise work. I'm blown away! What is it you do for a living? GM in the Eastern Conf.? Player Personnel? I'm wondering what your philosophy is on the Jackson/Riley systems? Maybe your expertise is in how to run a small market franchise and still be competitive and profitable with the larger market teams. I suppose you would think that the Jazz organization should be a non-profit enterprise. Therefore they could get a "new system" which would allow them to sign the "Big Name" players w/ talent that the Jazz have never had. Alot of people don't like Coach Sloan's style. I would prefer to know what I'm getting when I lay down the bucks$$$ for season tickets and Sloan has provided winning basketball consistently for a very long time. More power to Sloan for doing it with the "flawed/no talent" players you suggest the Jazz have! SA does have rings and many changing parts. There system isn't much different from the Jazz. Would you call Tim Duncan a role player or a star? Send them your resume!
delusional | 8:46 a.m. July 2, 2009
"Boozer for role players and future draft picks to save some salary
cap..."
I love it! Fans are insane enough to think we're going to get value in return if we trade Boozer. Once we have Millsap signed, any team out there knows that they're doing the Jazz a favor by taking Booze off their hands. And they're not going to give up "draft picks and role players" for the opportunity to do us a favor (and get a fragile Booze for part of a year).
I love it! Fans are insane enough to think we're going to get value in return if we trade Boozer. Once we have Millsap signed, any team out there knows that they're doing the Jazz a favor by taking Booze off their hands. And they're not going to give up "draft picks and role players" for the opportunity to do us a favor (and get a fragile Booze for part of a year).
Today's game is about | 8:49 a.m. July 2, 2009
length, speed, and agility. It is about defense, rebounding and outside
shooting. Those are all weaknesses for the Jazz.
As Coach Sloan implements his system it is too dependent on the PF position. He needs to open it up so that it is more versatile and gets more of a balanced contribution from the other positions.
He surely needs a better defensive scheme and effort.
For the first time in years the Jazz are in a position to fix most if not all of the problems on this team. If they seize this opportunity Sloan might get a ring. If not he needs to retire and the team needs virus cleaner and a reboot.
As Coach Sloan implements his system it is too dependent on the PF position. He needs to open it up so that it is more versatile and gets more of a balanced contribution from the other positions.
He surely needs a better defensive scheme and effort.
For the first time in years the Jazz are in a position to fix most if not all of the problems on this team. If they seize this opportunity Sloan might get a ring. If not he needs to retire and the team needs virus cleaner and a reboot.
Re:the market is saying | 8:58 a.m. July 2, 2009
Let me get this right, you are bashing sloan that his system "slows the
development of cheaper younger players" and then in the next sentence you
are bashing sloan because players that succeed here "do not find success
elsewhere"? Does this make sense to anyone else?
SO Kirilenko being an allstar his 4th year in the league is slowly developing?
So Williams being considered the second best PG in the game after his 2nd year is slow developing?
So Milsap who ever otherteam passed on in the draft (some a couple times) and is now ranging from 6 to 12 million a year is slow developing?
So having astarting roster where the oldest guy on the floor was only in his 7th year in the league is slow developing?
There may be reasons to bash Sloan.... but some of you guys are pathetic in the reasons you try and use
SO Kirilenko being an allstar his 4th year in the league is slowly developing?
So Williams being considered the second best PG in the game after his 2nd year is slow developing?
So Milsap who ever otherteam passed on in the draft (some a couple times) and is now ranging from 6 to 12 million a year is slow developing?
So having astarting roster where the oldest guy on the floor was only in his 7th year in the league is slow developing?
There may be reasons to bash Sloan.... but some of you guys are pathetic in the reasons you try and use
Best case | 9:16 a.m. July 2, 2009
for the Jazz is for OKC to chicken's out on Millsap or over pay for him.
Overpaying hurts them on resigning Key Franchise players. If they chicken out
Millsap is a good back up PF for the Jazz.
Millsap is going to be good (not great). Like Boozer he is a good enough PF to prevent the Jazz from winning in the next 5 years.
The Jazz need the ideal PF to replace Boozer to take the next step. Millsap in not the ideal PF in todays game. He is a great person and great story but the Jazz can't build the franchise around him.
But there will be a strong tendency for the Jazz to make do with Millsap for years since he knows the system and he is good (not great).
That approach has gotten the Jazz 22 years with Sloan as coach and still no ring.
It is time to upgrade. Certainly the Jazz can get a better team with 80 Million! Especially in todays market.
Why should Greg pay $40,000 for a Camry when he should get a Lexus for that money?
Millsap is going to be good (not great). Like Boozer he is a good enough PF to prevent the Jazz from winning in the next 5 years.
The Jazz need the ideal PF to replace Boozer to take the next step. Millsap in not the ideal PF in todays game. He is a great person and great story but the Jazz can't build the franchise around him.
But there will be a strong tendency for the Jazz to make do with Millsap for years since he knows the system and he is good (not great).
That approach has gotten the Jazz 22 years with Sloan as coach and still no ring.
It is time to upgrade. Certainly the Jazz can get a better team with 80 Million! Especially in todays market.
Why should Greg pay $40,000 for a Camry when he should get a Lexus for that money?
Random | 9:57 a.m. July 2, 2009
I think what a lot of people are overlooking is that the Jazz *have* to overpay
to get free agents to play in Utah. Name me one free agent that has signed with
Utah that wasn't overpaid. No free agent says that Utah is a place that
they are targeting to live/play in (see Derek Harper for the reasons why). It
just doesn't happen. No free agents want to come to Utah to play, and the
only way to get them to Utah is to overpay, or to draft/trade for them. It is
that simple. Blaming the management for overpaying Okur, Boozer, and to a
lesser extent AK (yes, they didn't have to go *that* high to keep him) is
incorrect, as they do have to pay to get or keep quality players in Utah.
even with the same players ... | 10:09 a.m. July 2, 2009
this team will be different and better for 2 reasons:
1) Sloan's head and heart will be back "in the game". Please remember he had 3 very close family & friends die last year and even he admitted he wasn't his "tough self" last year.
2) Crossing all our fingers & toes, we will be healthy - between D-Will missing the start of the season to Memo missing the 1st round, and Boozer, AK, Millsap, and Korver in between
If everyone is healthy for the whole season, good things can happen!
1) Sloan's head and heart will be back "in the game". Please remember he had 3 very close family & friends die last year and even he admitted he wasn't his "tough self" last year.
2) Crossing all our fingers & toes, we will be healthy - between D-Will missing the start of the season to Memo missing the 1st round, and Boozer, AK, Millsap, and Korver in between
If everyone is healthy for the whole season, good things can happen!
TOR may be going after | 10:15 a.m. July 2, 2009
Turkoglu. If POR can't get Turkoglu they may go after Ariza who is mad at
LA.
I do not think POR will start a bidding war with OKC for Millsap but they could.
Now to clarify some of the above concerns. Many teams play their rookie draftees their first year. They get playing time and develop much faster.
The Jazz almost never play rookies even when they are more talented than the Vets they should replace.
When Sloan finally does start playing them they tend to do well. Not necessarily because he developed them but because they were good players to begin with.
Millsap has always been able to rebound. If you rebound well in College you generally rebound well in the NBA. It is a skill that almost always transfers.
Like Boozer and Millsap, I consider Sloan to be good not great. If the Jazz can upgrade him they should do so, the same for KOC.
If there is no better coach available, then Sloan needs to make some modifications to what he has been doing for 22 years, as it is not good enough.
The team is an 80 million Camry instead of a Lexus.
I do not think POR will start a bidding war with OKC for Millsap but they could.
Now to clarify some of the above concerns. Many teams play their rookie draftees their first year. They get playing time and develop much faster.
The Jazz almost never play rookies even when they are more talented than the Vets they should replace.
When Sloan finally does start playing them they tend to do well. Not necessarily because he developed them but because they were good players to begin with.
Millsap has always been able to rebound. If you rebound well in College you generally rebound well in the NBA. It is a skill that almost always transfers.
Like Boozer and Millsap, I consider Sloan to be good not great. If the Jazz can upgrade him they should do so, the same for KOC.
If there is no better coach available, then Sloan needs to make some modifications to what he has been doing for 22 years, as it is not good enough.
The team is an 80 million Camry instead of a Lexus.
Ben Woodside | 10:23 a.m. July 2, 2009
Bring in Ben Woodside and let Price walk! You'd be saving money and
upgrading the PG position. Woodside would be one of the best shooting PG's
in the NBA right now. His shot is a thing of beauty.
One more time | 10:30 a.m. July 2, 2009
Every system has it's weaknesses and unintended consequences. Every team
makes some bad drafts and also just gets lucky once in a while.
Over time there is a tendency for the Sloan system to develop players more slowly than other systems. There is a Vet Bias. That is expensive. It also prevents the team from getting enough cheap talent.
Overtime there is also a tendency for that same system to take flawed role players, develop them and then keep them and over pay them because they know the system.
When they leave the system most of them do not do well because they lack talent and are flawed.
I think it would be an improvement to start with more talent especially at key positions (PF/C) and rotate whenever a better option becomes available.
As the Sloan system has been run it has tended to produce mediocre playoff teams under the salary cap. If that is what you want don't advocate any changes.
If you want a ring then some things have to be changed.
The system as it is now is mediocre. That has to be changed.
Over time there is a tendency for the Sloan system to develop players more slowly than other systems. There is a Vet Bias. That is expensive. It also prevents the team from getting enough cheap talent.
Overtime there is also a tendency for that same system to take flawed role players, develop them and then keep them and over pay them because they know the system.
When they leave the system most of them do not do well because they lack talent and are flawed.
I think it would be an improvement to start with more talent especially at key positions (PF/C) and rotate whenever a better option becomes available.
As the Sloan system has been run it has tended to produce mediocre playoff teams under the salary cap. If that is what you want don't advocate any changes.
If you want a ring then some things have to be changed.
The system as it is now is mediocre. That has to be changed.
Dumars Playing Games | 11:05 a.m. July 2, 2009
Dumars denied reports that the team was pursuing Gordon and then signed the guy
the first day of free agency.
Detroit is not smart to keep Prince AND Hamilton if they can get a true PF like Boozer. See, the Pistons can't make a trade for Boozer until the signings of Gordon and Villanueva are final next week. Once the signings are final, they can make the trade for Boozer which might take them a little over the salary cap. So over the next week, the Pistons will do everything to downplay Boozer so the Jazz will get less for him.
Also, the Jazz can't really trade Boozer until they see what OKC does. If they put a price tag of $10+ million on Millsap, the Jazz have to walk away OR make a trade involving more than just Boozer.
Detroit is not smart to keep Prince AND Hamilton if they can get a true PF like Boozer. See, the Pistons can't make a trade for Boozer until the signings of Gordon and Villanueva are final next week. Once the signings are final, they can make the trade for Boozer which might take them a little over the salary cap. So over the next week, the Pistons will do everything to downplay Boozer so the Jazz will get less for him.
Also, the Jazz can't really trade Boozer until they see what OKC does. If they put a price tag of $10+ million on Millsap, the Jazz have to walk away OR make a trade involving more than just Boozer.
Haha | 11:06 a.m. July 2, 2009
Think of it this way Jazz fans... Millsap wil get Harprings money as a
replacement next year... Is that not a bargain? I don't know if Millsap
will be a great PF, but I don't know that he won't either. For half
the price a Booz there is no comparison!
The Jazz will have to trade Boozer for next to nothing because they need to get under the cap. Hopefully the Jazz can swindle some picks or something like that. The sooner the better because he'll likely get hurt this year and no one will want him.
The Jazz will have to trade Boozer for next to nothing because they need to get under the cap. Hopefully the Jazz can swindle some picks or something like that. The sooner the better because he'll likely get hurt this year and no one will want him.
Best Move | 11:09 a.m. July 2, 2009
First, I'm a Milsap fan. Let me get that out there.
But, the Jazz need to let Milsap go. Instead of sinking a load of money into Milsap, a backup, why don't the Jazz upgrade at shooting guard? They could go for Ariza, who can defend and shoot. Then, use Kirilenko as the backup power forward. That is the position he flourished in anyways, so why not give him Milsap's time last year and get something out of his bloated contract.
Then, the Jazz have a solid starting 5. Brewer can play some time at the SmallForward position. We'll have a guy in Ariza that people actually have to guard on the perimiter (unlike Brewer). That is a better move than signing Milsap to a contract where we already have 2 players that play there (AK47 and Booz).
That is the best way move to make this team better.
But, the Jazz need to let Milsap go. Instead of sinking a load of money into Milsap, a backup, why don't the Jazz upgrade at shooting guard? They could go for Ariza, who can defend and shoot. Then, use Kirilenko as the backup power forward. That is the position he flourished in anyways, so why not give him Milsap's time last year and get something out of his bloated contract.
Then, the Jazz have a solid starting 5. Brewer can play some time at the SmallForward position. We'll have a guy in Ariza that people actually have to guard on the perimiter (unlike Brewer). That is a better move than signing Milsap to a contract where we already have 2 players that play there (AK47 and Booz).
That is the best way move to make this team better.
todd from santa ana | 11:21 a.m. July 2, 2009
oh lets see Avery was available. Bill laimbeer and Rick mahorn, Jeff Van Gundy,
all could have potentially improved the Jazz. People like comfort and not
winning, maybe it would take a 45 win 9th place conference record to finally
trigger people to say i am not satisfied with being average. Today only 2 more
"sloanaholics" by my unofficial tally...The Jazz are over the cap
anyway, so could go after Ariza, and all these others- All this talk about
summer about "change" and zero change
I agree on this all of you may have to wait "forever" for Snoozie to go. More likely he will do ok this year Jazz go out to Portland or denver in Round one, and Snooze will get a new 4 or 5 year contract.
Better run every game and try and win 120-119 because no one will stop anyone, with this roster that means Goran and Koustos are still going to get very and I mean limited time
You may want to hire Paul Westhead to get guys in condition, 3 a day practices and run run run
LOYOLA MARYMOUNT STYLE!!!
I agree on this all of you may have to wait "forever" for Snoozie to go. More likely he will do ok this year Jazz go out to Portland or denver in Round one, and Snooze will get a new 4 or 5 year contract.
Better run every game and try and win 120-119 because no one will stop anyone, with this roster that means Goran and Koustos are still going to get very and I mean limited time
You may want to hire Paul Westhead to get guys in condition, 3 a day practices and run run run
LOYOLA MARYMOUNT STYLE!!!
todd to best move | 11:25 a.m. July 2, 2009
trevor would be a 6'8 shooting guard?
JazzSpazz | 11:27 a.m. July 2, 2009
Re: Chuck Nunn
So you don't think Sloan and the front office are just blowing smoke and saying the right things right now? I have had my fingers crossed that they are just biding their time, but with the speed at which teams the Jazz may have struck deals are moving ahead without us (i.e. Detroit, LAC), I am starting to fear that they are happy with the status quo. You seem to be well connected so it's always great to get your insight.
By the way, how to do you feel about the status quo? I think paying the luxury tax for the same team we had last year, especially with a Boozer/Okur front line, is insanity. It makes more sense to me for the team to aggressively go into either rebuild mode or try to acquire missing pieces, but that's just me.
re: "The Market is Saying"
I couldn't agree more.
So you don't think Sloan and the front office are just blowing smoke and saying the right things right now? I have had my fingers crossed that they are just biding their time, but with the speed at which teams the Jazz may have struck deals are moving ahead without us (i.e. Detroit, LAC), I am starting to fear that they are happy with the status quo. You seem to be well connected so it's always great to get your insight.
By the way, how to do you feel about the status quo? I think paying the luxury tax for the same team we had last year, especially with a Boozer/Okur front line, is insanity. It makes more sense to me for the team to aggressively go into either rebuild mode or try to acquire missing pieces, but that's just me.
re: "The Market is Saying"
I couldn't agree more.
Re: Sloan's system | 11:28 a.m. July 2, 2009
Running the system, the Jazz can't make it to the promised land. The rules
have changes such that on the defensive end the system gets destroyed by the off
guards. On the offensive end, it's great, but if they couldn't get it
done with two of the greatest players at their position (they key positions for
the system) ever, what chance do they have with Boozer and Williams? Not
knocking Williams, but Boozer can't make it happen.
Bejazzled | 11:31 a.m. July 2, 2009
I love Millsap! He played above expectations and is deserving of negotiating
power. I just hope he sees that he's good for the Jazz and that they are
good for him. The Jazz got all the parts to go to the playoffs a couple years
back, but we knew then that they needed to keep it together for a few years to
make a championship run. These are young guys with more potential as a team, yet
to tap.
If every other Jazz player (asking for more money) even played up to their own expectations of themselves (like Millsap), the Jazz have the potential to win championships.
Can all the other guys play up to the potential of the price tag they've ask for? We'll see! I'm not convinced that these Jazz players can't put it together better than they have. But we need to see it. Get healthy, play hard, and play together! Prove to us that keeping this team together is worth it, because the Jazz franchise is putting their money and belief where their mouth is, in hopes that the parts materialize as a whole. Come on, Jazz! Now's the time!
If every other Jazz player (asking for more money) even played up to their own expectations of themselves (like Millsap), the Jazz have the potential to win championships.
Can all the other guys play up to the potential of the price tag they've ask for? We'll see! I'm not convinced that these Jazz players can't put it together better than they have. But we need to see it. Get healthy, play hard, and play together! Prove to us that keeping this team together is worth it, because the Jazz franchise is putting their money and belief where their mouth is, in hopes that the parts materialize as a whole. Come on, Jazz! Now's the time!
Cap'n Parrotdead | 11:41 a.m. July 2, 2009
I was disappointed to see Boozer opt in. Trade him for Rip Hamilton? You
betcha, if Dumars is silly enough to go for it.
I'd love to see the Jazz pursue Turkoglu. He'd be a perfect fit for the Jazz.
I'd love to see the Jazz pursue Turkoglu. He'd be a perfect fit for the Jazz.
ATB | 11:48 a.m. July 2, 2009
I think anything over $25-$30M for 4 years is overpriced and crazy.
So, if I were running show, I would be willing to give PM that contract, not much more. I would back end load it, if possible, to reduce luxury tax.
I would see if I could get a good center in exchange for Boozer. If not, then I would keep him as he is going to bust tail this year and have career numbers to set himself up for next summer- same for Okur.
I would buy out or trade Harpring to lower luxury tax. Sign two cheap bench/role players.
The team, barring injuries, will be good this year, particularly given the inventives on a couple of the better players. Next year is when the drama begins.
So, if I were running show, I would be willing to give PM that contract, not much more. I would back end load it, if possible, to reduce luxury tax.
I would see if I could get a good center in exchange for Boozer. If not, then I would keep him as he is going to bust tail this year and have career numbers to set himself up for next summer- same for Okur.
I would buy out or trade Harpring to lower luxury tax. Sign two cheap bench/role players.
The team, barring injuries, will be good this year, particularly given the inventives on a couple of the better players. Next year is when the drama begins.
todd from santa ana | 11:53 a.m. July 2, 2009
status quo can be blamed first to the jazz fans in the state of Utah. If
everyone had written greg like I did and address all this and flood his office,
this would not have happened.
oh well....
The few people that can see the truth cannot cover everyone. Jerry have pity for if possible, he has to deal with the mental midget group this has become away from home anyway.
oh well....
The few people that can see the truth cannot cover everyone. Jerry have pity for if possible, he has to deal with the mental midget group this has become away from home anyway.
Ariza | 12:17 p.m. July 2, 2009
I say keep Paul if possible but he is not worth 10 mil a year. His production
fell of after he started for a lot of games in a row. I think the Jazz need to
somehow get Ariza. He is a good 3 point shooter and a much better defender than
the Jazz have right now. Maybe they can do a sign and trade with Price Harp and
CJ to get him. Or maybe even throw in Fes. He would be a great 3 for the Jazz
and it would help out a lot on the defensive end.
Ridiculous comments!! | 12:28 p.m. July 2, 2009
Luxury tax for the 8 seed?
This team had #1 most games missed due to injury last season and we still made the playoffs and were in the running for the 3 or 4th seed with 8 games to go!!
We were decimated with injuries all year and end up an 8 seed. Not bad.
Anyone with a brain knows that a healthy version of this team is EASILY TOP 3 in the W. Conference, especially that Yao is toast.
Get a clue.
As far as these ridiculous predictions about the Jazz paying $10 million for Millsap??? You must have rocks for brains because there is not a chance of it.
That is waaaaaaaay too much for Millsap. Not to mention his salary will basically be dollar for dollar luxury tax so that would be the same as paying $20 million for Millsap for the upcoming season!!
Think people think!!
Not a chance!! 5-7 million max!!
Even if Millsap goes AK could easily play the backup 4 position and we would likely see a more productive AK as a result.
Boozer destroys AK's game.
This team had #1 most games missed due to injury last season and we still made the playoffs and were in the running for the 3 or 4th seed with 8 games to go!!
We were decimated with injuries all year and end up an 8 seed. Not bad.
Anyone with a brain knows that a healthy version of this team is EASILY TOP 3 in the W. Conference, especially that Yao is toast.
Get a clue.
As far as these ridiculous predictions about the Jazz paying $10 million for Millsap??? You must have rocks for brains because there is not a chance of it.
That is waaaaaaaay too much for Millsap. Not to mention his salary will basically be dollar for dollar luxury tax so that would be the same as paying $20 million for Millsap for the upcoming season!!
Think people think!!
Not a chance!! 5-7 million max!!
Even if Millsap goes AK could easily play the backup 4 position and we would likely see a more productive AK as a result.
Boozer destroys AK's game.
todd to above | 12:39 p.m. July 2, 2009
that explains with a "healthy squad" how the team finished 8-15 does
it not?
Your comeback would be road games.
gee Other teams have never had this. I remember countless Magic Led LAker teams would win a tough decent game vs bad jazz teams go into Denver the next night against a better at time Nuggets with issel, vandeweghe and Lakers would still win back to back.
It is mind set and coaching and character...
Your comeback would be road games.
gee Other teams have never had this. I remember countless Magic Led LAker teams would win a tough decent game vs bad jazz teams go into Denver the next night against a better at time Nuggets with issel, vandeweghe and Lakers would still win back to back.
It is mind set and coaching and character...
Re:todd from santa ana | 12:47 p.m. July 2, 2009
You are becoming an annoyance on these blogs like Sloan Hater before you. I
believe you are really him with a changed name since it seems he was banned from
being here. Isn't Santa Ana in California. So you are a Laker fan? Explains
everything! Laker fans are in the same mold of Rocky Anderson and do not belong
here. I am sick of seeing your kind protesting in Downtown SLC over you know
what. Sloan likes his players to be real men and your kind does not fit that
bill. Please leave.
agree | 12:50 p.m. July 2, 2009
with best move (@11:09)- although if a trade for Boozer is imminenet then I
could see keeping Millsap around for ~6 mill/year. Otherwise the perimeter
needs help either via free agency (if anyone will come here) or trade (Miles,
Boozer, etc.)
SJ Bobkins | 12:54 p.m. July 2, 2009
Why aren't we talking about picking up a force like Ron Artest who wants
out of Houston? He makes $9 million less than AK "the bawling
stockman" and brings to Utah what itneeds most, toughness. How many close
road games were then proceeded by a 20 point drubbing at the hands of a lessor
team? The team has all the pieces but for someone to battle under the basket.
It's convienient how Jazz centers somehow find themselves high in the key
when play gets physical. Don't bring up the suspension as a negative, that
was years ago. With all the anti Boozer talk why aren't we hearing anyone
adressing the biggest problem, a bench setter making $4 million more than
Carlos. The sun will shine a little brighter when Igor and his cases of Kleenex
exit the Jazz.
@Re:Sloan | 12:59 p.m. July 2, 2009
I am aware of the systems' weaknesses and I agree that if Sloan did not
make it happen with Stockton and Malone he is not likely to make it with DWill
and ?.
However, when Boozer was out and Millsap was on a terror with no back up. Johnson modified the system. Millsap could not run some of Boozer's plays. So Johnson made some new ones.
They had to run more plays thru the C, SF,SG and sometimes the PG. If there had been a good back up for Millsap the team would have been a winner.
1. If the offense is modified
2. If the PF and back up are good enough
3. If the role players are good enough
4. If the right coach is running it
5. If there is a decent defense
The system can be made to work.
The only reason to keep the system is if the Jazz keep Sloan and he may not be able to make his own system work.
Better defense by the SG would be a great help, but interior D and being able to D inside out teams like SA are major problems.
However, when Boozer was out and Millsap was on a terror with no back up. Johnson modified the system. Millsap could not run some of Boozer's plays. So Johnson made some new ones.
They had to run more plays thru the C, SF,SG and sometimes the PG. If there had been a good back up for Millsap the team would have been a winner.
1. If the offense is modified
2. If the PF and back up are good enough
3. If the role players are good enough
4. If the right coach is running it
5. If there is a decent defense
The system can be made to work.
The only reason to keep the system is if the Jazz keep Sloan and he may not be able to make his own system work.
Better defense by the SG would be a great help, but interior D and being able to D inside out teams like SA are major problems.
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Paul Millsap will be getting a big pay raise. He is a restricted free agent — meaning the Jazz can match any offer.
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However, there are a number of much better players left who are more established, and proven than Millsap who will be competing for OKC's cap money. Among others there is Lee who has better numbers and a bigger delusion about what he is worth in this market. However, the rumor tonight is that Ariza is leaving LA. Artest is leaving HOU?
Would you rather have Ariza or Millsap? How about Gortat or Millsap? Turkoglu is also available but POR is working on getting him.
OKC really needs an up grade at C more than they need to shuffle Durant and Green.
Don't bet on OKC busting the bank to get Millsap.