Reader comments
SB81 to take effect amid many challenges
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Paul | 7:26 a.m. June 28, 2009
It makes you wonder how the people at the Sutherland Institute would feel if
their IDs were used by illegals. Maybe they can put some information out, like
names, addresses, and SSNs, to help illegals. It only seems fair.
I would certainly hope Utah can get its act together and pass a real SB81 - one that requires all employers to check their employee's status.
I would certainly hope Utah can get its act together and pass a real SB81 - one that requires all employers to check their employee's status.
MaryJ | 7:49 a.m. June 28, 2009
Sutherland only wants the legislature to make laws for violent criminals?
Comments continue below
Lou | 8:23 a.m. June 28, 2009
Sutherlund Institute? Isn't this the old Eagle Forum? Their web page
lists some of their members.
AILAMember | 10:00 a.m. June 28, 2009
You are right, entering the country illegally is a crime. It's the
equivalent of a B misdemeanor. Can you recall any legislative endeavor like
this one aimed at speeding and shoplifting, both of which are much more
prevalent and more damaging?
Regarding the fake ID's. Most illegal aliens work under their own name using a made up SS#. Very few "steal" the IDs of others, even in most of those cases they don't realize the number actually belongs to someone. Furthermore, it's not uncommon for a legal resident or U.S. citizen to actually sell their info to family and friends for use.
Lastly, all those aliens using fake IDs are paying taxes into the system, but aren't getting any back. The last estimate I saw of taxes paid to the gov't using incorrect SS#s was in the area of 500 Billion dollars. That's money that the aliens paid in but cannot reap any benefits from (i.e. they don't get unemployment, welfare, food stamps, etc).
There is no good, conservative argument against immigration (of any sort). Immigration has ALWAYS worked to this country's advantage.
Regarding the fake ID's. Most illegal aliens work under their own name using a made up SS#. Very few "steal" the IDs of others, even in most of those cases they don't realize the number actually belongs to someone. Furthermore, it's not uncommon for a legal resident or U.S. citizen to actually sell their info to family and friends for use.
Lastly, all those aliens using fake IDs are paying taxes into the system, but aren't getting any back. The last estimate I saw of taxes paid to the gov't using incorrect SS#s was in the area of 500 Billion dollars. That's money that the aliens paid in but cannot reap any benefits from (i.e. they don't get unemployment, welfare, food stamps, etc).
There is no good, conservative argument against immigration (of any sort). Immigration has ALWAYS worked to this country's advantage.
No good, leftist argument | 1:50 p.m. June 28, 2009
You're incorrect in assuming that anyone has a right to move to this
country and obtain employment. It is a privilege, not a right, and it is
conditional.
By your logic it isn't a criminal's fault if they unknowingly use a stolen gun while robbing a convenience store, so they should be forgiven the base criminal act of armed robbery. Lets remember that many of them not only take jobs away from people who are here legally, they send millions of dollars out of this country weakening our economy by removing money which could have been spent here. And in cities like San Francisco which refuse to enforce the laws already on the books, illegals are not only a huge burden on the medical system, many illegally receive housing assistance which could be spent for legal residents or other more pressing needs. They do receive welfare, food stamps, etc. Just ask Obama's aunt.
There is no good, leftist argument for illegal immigration because criminals ALWAYS are a burden to society. There is no such thing as a victimless crime. Society as a whole pays for it.
By your logic it isn't a criminal's fault if they unknowingly use a stolen gun while robbing a convenience store, so they should be forgiven the base criminal act of armed robbery. Lets remember that many of them not only take jobs away from people who are here legally, they send millions of dollars out of this country weakening our economy by removing money which could have been spent here. And in cities like San Francisco which refuse to enforce the laws already on the books, illegals are not only a huge burden on the medical system, many illegally receive housing assistance which could be spent for legal residents or other more pressing needs. They do receive welfare, food stamps, etc. Just ask Obama's aunt.
There is no good, leftist argument for illegal immigration because criminals ALWAYS are a burden to society. There is no such thing as a victimless crime. Society as a whole pays for it.
red herring | 2:34 p.m. June 28, 2009
It kind of like getting upset when someone takes fruit off of your tree because
they are hungry(undocumented immigrants)
while ignoring the fact that someone else is taking all of the money out of your bank account.(AIG,GM, stock market collapse, and your 401k going bye-bye)
The real burdens to out economy, are the to "to big to fail" companies.
The amount each of us is spending to bail them out, is not where close to what little, it may cost us due to undocumnted workers.
As I see it, most of the "undocumented" just want to work, and if a naturally born citizen of this country, can not compete with a undocumented worker, then it is the american citizens own fault, for not taking advantage, of all the opportunities this country has given them.
In the end, the right thing to do, is to just go outside, and give the hungry person a bag, to put the fruit in, and tell them to take all they can carry.
while ignoring the fact that someone else is taking all of the money out of your bank account.(AIG,GM, stock market collapse, and your 401k going bye-bye)
The real burdens to out economy, are the to "to big to fail" companies.
The amount each of us is spending to bail them out, is not where close to what little, it may cost us due to undocumnted workers.
As I see it, most of the "undocumented" just want to work, and if a naturally born citizen of this country, can not compete with a undocumented worker, then it is the american citizens own fault, for not taking advantage, of all the opportunities this country has given them.
In the end, the right thing to do, is to just go outside, and give the hungry person a bag, to put the fruit in, and tell them to take all they can carry.
undocumented immigrants | 2:59 p.m. June 28, 2009
undocumented immigrants are breaking the law by being here and consequently
forced to continue breaking laws to remain here. They can't legally work.
They steal or make up a Social Security # that causes major problems for the
legal/real owner. They can't get a driver's license. They frequently
work for lower than minimum wage, causing hardship for them and other people in
similar jobs. . .
the list goes on and on. . . . . . .
the list goes on and on. . . . . . .
$2.00 a hour | 3:01 p.m. June 28, 2009
Did you know the servers at Red Robin and Wingers only get $2.00 an hour?
This is the problem of undocumented workers. They are so desperate for work and food- they lower the wages being paid to everyone!
This is the problem of undocumented workers. They are so desperate for work and food- they lower the wages being paid to everyone!
Stewart | 3:28 p.m. June 28, 2009
It would really be nice if DesNews staff writers would read through SB-81 before
reporting on the the issue. If they did they would know that there is really no
enforcement mechanism, other than getting sued by citizens losing their jobs to
illegal aliens. As far a the "cross deputizing" of police officers the
county and city police could already do this before SB-81 was passed.
This law was passed a year and a half ago, and hearings where held around the state for a year. Those that attended know that the citizens want this law to go into affect.
As for doing work Americans won't do, I think that this has been disproved in our present economic situation. I have a neighbor who lost some of her hours at her regular job and so she went to work at a motel, "doing work Americans won't do." Flooding the labor market with illegal aliens is the cheap labor users' way of depressing wages. In the last 40 years we have seen the cost of living (inflation) go up by nearly 700% while wages for the unskilled labor has only gone up 100%-200%
This law was passed a year and a half ago, and hearings where held around the state for a year. Those that attended know that the citizens want this law to go into affect.
As for doing work Americans won't do, I think that this has been disproved in our present economic situation. I have a neighbor who lost some of her hours at her regular job and so she went to work at a motel, "doing work Americans won't do." Flooding the labor market with illegal aliens is the cheap labor users' way of depressing wages. In the last 40 years we have seen the cost of living (inflation) go up by nearly 700% while wages for the unskilled labor has only gone up 100%-200%
simple | 3:41 p.m. June 28, 2009
send em home, they miss their homeland do me and them a favor send em all
home...their attitude has been one of " we deserve" all the while my
kids are having a hard time getting a job to start their working history. give
the true American people a break! otherwise rename the country to mexico 2
WatchDog | 6:46 p.m. June 28, 2009
My! What a lot of whiners we have!
To AILA member. Love some of your misinformation.
" Regarding the fake ID's. Most illegal aliens work under their own name using a made up SS#. Very few "steal" the IDs of others, even in most of those cases they don't realize the number actually belongs to someone.
That SSN belongs to someone! They may not know whom, but they are screwing up someone's ID! Set aside the felony theft, whomever has, or gets legally assigned the stolen SSN has big trouble that may take years and years to resolve. Obviously, you as well as they, do not realize the damage they do, nevertheless, they are creating significant problems for someone.
To AILA member. Love some of your misinformation.
" Regarding the fake ID's. Most illegal aliens work under their own name using a made up SS#. Very few "steal" the IDs of others, even in most of those cases they don't realize the number actually belongs to someone.
That SSN belongs to someone! They may not know whom, but they are screwing up someone's ID! Set aside the felony theft, whomever has, or gets legally assigned the stolen SSN has big trouble that may take years and years to resolve. Obviously, you as well as they, do not realize the damage they do, nevertheless, they are creating significant problems for someone.
MaryJ | 6:46 p.m. June 28, 2009
Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any
citizen of any country other than the United States who:
Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.
Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.
Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.
Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.
Re: $2.00 an hour | 7:07 p.m. June 28, 2009
Many restaurants only pay that small pittance for labor. The real money made by
the worker is in tips. So don't forget to tip. And maybe the minimum server
wage should be raised. How a restaurant is allowed to have 10 people working the
floor (with no benefits) and only pay $20 per hour total for the labor is way
beyond me.
RE:AILAMember | 7:38 p.m. June 28, 2009
Since when do we deport people for speeding? Filling out tax forms illegally is
a felony, accepting work is a felony separate from entering the country.
It's trespassing and theft. In it's simplest forms. That's why every Industrialized country in the world prosecute illegal aliens.
Eagles Forum? Figures. If this law is thrown out, we can adopt the laws of Arizona. They have withstood the court tests. They go after the business owners. I would think that would scare "Sutherland" and the Chamber of commerce more.
The people want ours laws enforced.
It's trespassing and theft. In it's simplest forms. That's why every Industrialized country in the world prosecute illegal aliens.
Eagles Forum? Figures. If this law is thrown out, we can adopt the laws of Arizona. They have withstood the court tests. They go after the business owners. I would think that would scare "Sutherland" and the Chamber of commerce more.
The people want ours laws enforced.
Anonymous | 7:57 p.m. June 28, 2009
Re: $2.00 per hour,
If anyone, illegal or not, are dumb enough to take a job for 2 bucks an hour, then, because THEY agreed to such a silly salary, that is what they should get.
I as a customer, should not be expected to cover the employer who has figured out a way to suck the tips out of the employee by not paying a living wage.
If anyone, illegal or not, are dumb enough to take a job for 2 bucks an hour, then, because THEY agreed to such a silly salary, that is what they should get.
I as a customer, should not be expected to cover the employer who has figured out a way to suck the tips out of the employee by not paying a living wage.
Anonymous | 7:58 p.m. June 28, 2009
Hey Sutherland! When do I get to choose which law I want to break with no
punishment involved?
RE: Anonymous | 7:58 p.m. | 10:26 p.m. June 28, 2009
Should you be able to break laws without a punishment?
Reason | 1:58 p.m. July 1, 2009
To the dumb struck person who said, "send em all home" wow really??
haha don't make me laugh! you send them all home go ahead... watch what
happens to the already horrible economy! Maybe ask yourself "am I really
concenred about someone working illegally? Or am I just Being racist?"
Because you just basically said all illegal immagrants are Mexican. Mexico 2??
let me remind you in history class they taught us that most of these western
states, belonged to mexico, and we got them by blackmailing some dude lol please
just stop. If this bill doesn't affect you directly and harshly then shut
up!
To all you | 2:24 p.m. July 1, 2009
. . . bleeding hearts using spin, sophistry, justification, and obfuscation to
try and make us feel like hypocrites for demanding adherence to the rule of law
-- it's not working.
As a people, we believe in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. Period.
A little reminder -- we're the victims here. Not the illegal immigrants.
We're the ones picking up the tab for people who, as a group, pay the smallest percentage of their income in taxes and use the largest share of public services. We're the ones whose car insurance bill is skyrocketing because of an epidemic of uninsured motorists -- most of them illegal immigrants. We're the ones losing good jobs in the trades to illegals willing to work for nothing, so long as it's paid in cash.
Spare me your contempt. It no longer affects me. Illegal immigration does, however.
As a people, we believe in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. Period.
A little reminder -- we're the victims here. Not the illegal immigrants.
We're the ones picking up the tab for people who, as a group, pay the smallest percentage of their income in taxes and use the largest share of public services. We're the ones whose car insurance bill is skyrocketing because of an epidemic of uninsured motorists -- most of them illegal immigrants. We're the ones losing good jobs in the trades to illegals willing to work for nothing, so long as it's paid in cash.
Spare me your contempt. It no longer affects me. Illegal immigration does, however.
Vive la SB-81 | 4:59 p.m. July 2, 2009
To all you.....
Well said!!!
Well said!!!
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Illegal border crossings are against Federal law and punishable by deportation and possible fines, forged documents are a felony, lying to obtain work is felony. Illegally coming here is just a start of laws that have to be broken to work here illegally.
Let's protect our poor American workers, including the poor legal immigrants who come here. No more excuses for not enforcing our immigration laws. No more stealing American jobs, no more human trafficking and slave labor to support some of Utah's business community that lack morals.