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LDS Church urged to soften gay stance
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to - DAJC | 12:32 p.m | 12:49 p.m. June 23, 2009
["If you people who are gay want to live with a partner, please don't
call it marriage...call it a union, because marriage has a different meaning and
purpose!"]
what different meaning and purpose? to love and protect? to raise a family? seems to me gays fit that category just fine...
and marriage used to be a contractual arrangement between families, with those getting married having little or no say in it. Is that the marriage you describe as having a different meaning?
mariage has changed dramatically since early times. why do you want to stand in the way of further changes? because you read it in some book, or were told that by someone purporting to have God's ear? that's ridiculous...
what different meaning and purpose? to love and protect? to raise a family? seems to me gays fit that category just fine...
and marriage used to be a contractual arrangement between families, with those getting married having little or no say in it. Is that the marriage you describe as having a different meaning?
mariage has changed dramatically since early times. why do you want to stand in the way of further changes? because you read it in some book, or were told that by someone purporting to have God's ear? that's ridiculous...
teenage lessons | 12:49 p.m. June 23, 2009
when I was a teen , I asked my dad if I could drink. The answer was a resounding
NO! All my friends drank a little and so did their dad's so I was sure if I
was persistent my dad would finally soften his rules regarding drinking and give
me the green light. It never happened. However the more I asked the more angry
he became until I finally realized I may lose my driving privilege too unless I
cooled it with the drinking requests. I was young and dumb and didn't see
the harm in drinking...until my cousin was killed by a drunk driver. My dad was
right all along about drinking but I was too naive to understand why. Today,
Gays keep pounding at the LDS Church to soften their stance on gay marriage and
the answer is always a resounding NO and interestingly enough for the same
reasoning my dad used - BECAUSE IT WILL DESTROY YOU!! Homosexual marriage will
destroy society as well as those poor children who are adopted into this
poisonous environment. Commandments of God are always for our own protection!
Comments continue below
Re To Sick and Tired | 12:56 p.m. June 23, 2009
YES you chose! You chose to act on your urges and curiosity! No baby is born
into this world a Homosexual or Lesbian! God created man in his own image and
created a man and woman to have families. Tell me, can a man get pregnant? Can
two women produce children? Please, since you know so much, tell me how that
works!
Re: Vince | 1:00 p.m. June 23, 2009
Options for alcoholics:
1. If drinking alcohol is truly a choice, then alcoholics could join a program (like alcoholics anonymous) that would help them change their desire to drink?
Have you ever heard of an alcoholic that ever gets rid of any desire to drink alcohol again in his life? Why would the fact that someone struggles with the temptation to have sex with someone of the same gender for their whole life make that behavior any more inevitable than drinking alcohol?
2. The alcoholic can just try to drink recreationally without concuming the large amounts that may harm himself and others.
We all no that doesn't work
3. The alcoholic can learn to control his appetite for intoxicating beverages and abstain from drinking them.
Yes, the alcoholic may not get the momentary pleasure that others get from consuming alcoholic beverages. They may not be able to relax and have fun like all their other friends at the bar. But in the end, would the alcoholic agree that abstinence is the best approach? Why don't you find a recovered alcoholic and ask them and then explain the difference between this and same-sex attraction?
1. If drinking alcohol is truly a choice, then alcoholics could join a program (like alcoholics anonymous) that would help them change their desire to drink?
Have you ever heard of an alcoholic that ever gets rid of any desire to drink alcohol again in his life? Why would the fact that someone struggles with the temptation to have sex with someone of the same gender for their whole life make that behavior any more inevitable than drinking alcohol?
2. The alcoholic can just try to drink recreationally without concuming the large amounts that may harm himself and others.
We all no that doesn't work
3. The alcoholic can learn to control his appetite for intoxicating beverages and abstain from drinking them.
Yes, the alcoholic may not get the momentary pleasure that others get from consuming alcoholic beverages. They may not be able to relax and have fun like all their other friends at the bar. But in the end, would the alcoholic agree that abstinence is the best approach? Why don't you find a recovered alcoholic and ask them and then explain the difference between this and same-sex attraction?
Vince | 1:08 p.m. June 23, 2009
To Molly Mormon
No, I, for one refuse to go to another church.
I left another church thank you very much because of the experiences in the LDS Church.
I brought people into this Church, Molly. (whatever your name is). I, for one, prefer to bring people into the Church than driving them out. I have seen both. The latter is not pretty.
I do not go looking for churches to satisfy my own interpretation of scripture.
I know the meaning of a testimony.
I also know my sense of self.
It is not a temptation. It is not a tendency. It is not a confusion. It is not a choice.
It was confusion when I thought I was a heterosexual, but nope, not a hetero.
No, I, for one refuse to go to another church.
I left another church thank you very much because of the experiences in the LDS Church.
I brought people into this Church, Molly. (whatever your name is). I, for one, prefer to bring people into the Church than driving them out. I have seen both. The latter is not pretty.
I do not go looking for churches to satisfy my own interpretation of scripture.
I know the meaning of a testimony.
I also know my sense of self.
It is not a temptation. It is not a tendency. It is not a confusion. It is not a choice.
It was confusion when I thought I was a heterosexual, but nope, not a hetero.
Sally Coleman | 1:18 p.m. June 23, 2009
As one gay friend said to me "You tell me when you chose to be heterosexual
and I'll tell you when I chose to be homosexual". He felt he had no
choice in his feelings. However, he was aware of his choice of behavior. And
that is the point isn't it - choice.
I have a grown daughter who is gay and although I love her and support her, she knows how I feel about her relationship.
The Lord expects us to avoid sex outside of marriage. That includes heterosexual fornication and adultery. IMHO, homosexual behavior is not any worse than the apparent "so-called socially accepted" morals of the day that are played out daily on TV, magazines, books, etc.
The Lord is not going to change his mind about that kind of behavior even though the world emrbaces it , nor will he change his mind about homosexual behavior.
It is only our job to follow the Lord and love all as Jesus does.
I have a grown daughter who is gay and although I love her and support her, she knows how I feel about her relationship.
The Lord expects us to avoid sex outside of marriage. That includes heterosexual fornication and adultery. IMHO, homosexual behavior is not any worse than the apparent "so-called socially accepted" morals of the day that are played out daily on TV, magazines, books, etc.
The Lord is not going to change his mind about that kind of behavior even though the world emrbaces it , nor will he change his mind about homosexual behavior.
It is only our job to follow the Lord and love all as Jesus does.
Arizona | 1:18 p.m. June 23, 2009
The Church does not single-out gays as a target. It teaches that the marriage
of one man and one woman is the pattern established by God. The gay community
is the first to announce that they are outside of this pattern and to demand
that God change, and that isn't going to happen. Others will follow,
demanding a similar exception for their deviance. All sexual activity outside
of a legal marriage between a man and a woman is prohibited.
Anonymous | 1:20 p.m. June 23, 2009
You people are so naive. I had the choice to come back into the church and
remain celebate the rest of my life. I decided I would do that when I knew that
I would never want to be gay again.
Can you imagine going to church and keeping your distance because you are afraid of falling in love with someone there? Can you imagine a life filled with no touching, no hugging, no physical contact with anyone? That is what my life would have been if I had gone back. That truly sounds like hell on earth.
I have become the best person that I can be. I am honest with myself and others. I am a great parent. I serve my community and country.
I have already decided that if I am to be judged for my life, let it be. I will accept the consequences of being true to myself.
Please, all you judgemental people who think you are so much better than gays - take a look at who you have become. If you in any way feel that you are better than gays, you need to do some soul searching. Please.
Can you imagine going to church and keeping your distance because you are afraid of falling in love with someone there? Can you imagine a life filled with no touching, no hugging, no physical contact with anyone? That is what my life would have been if I had gone back. That truly sounds like hell on earth.
I have become the best person that I can be. I am honest with myself and others. I am a great parent. I serve my community and country.
I have already decided that if I am to be judged for my life, let it be. I will accept the consequences of being true to myself.
Please, all you judgemental people who think you are so much better than gays - take a look at who you have become. If you in any way feel that you are better than gays, you need to do some soul searching. Please.
William D. Wright | 1:26 p.m. June 23, 2009
Every time the word gay is used, instead of homosexual, you are incouraging this
lifestile; so I use sodomite.
In about 1970, there were two sodomits living together, in Miami, fla. They got into an arguement and one of them was killed. The killer cut the body up and drove along an interstate hiway throwing body parts out of his car window.
Several days later, the Miami Herald reported that the homosexuals being only 2% of the whole population commited about 65% of the murders, 75% of the suicides, and had 85% of the veneral infections.
About three years later, there was an ersponsible ruling that homosexual conduct is not a mental disorder. This does not make since to me.
In about 1970, there were two sodomits living together, in Miami, fla. They got into an arguement and one of them was killed. The killer cut the body up and drove along an interstate hiway throwing body parts out of his car window.
Several days later, the Miami Herald reported that the homosexuals being only 2% of the whole population commited about 65% of the murders, 75% of the suicides, and had 85% of the veneral infections.
About three years later, there was an ersponsible ruling that homosexual conduct is not a mental disorder. This does not make since to me.
Love the sinner, hate the sin | 1:27 p.m. June 23, 2009
The LGBT's have it all wrong again. They seem to think this is about the
fact that the LDS church hates them just because they are gay or lesbian.
The LDS Church has more resources to help and support gays and lesbians in their recovery than any other religion.
The fact that a few people commit suicide does not give individuals the right to blame the church or its doctrines for that tragic occurrence.
If someone commits suicide, they do it out of their own free will and choice, not because of the Church.
They have no one to blame but themselves for that choice. No one makes anyone commit suicide.
Stop blaming the church. The church is doing its best to love the sinner while hating the sin.
The LDS Church has more resources to help and support gays and lesbians in their recovery than any other religion.
The fact that a few people commit suicide does not give individuals the right to blame the church or its doctrines for that tragic occurrence.
If someone commits suicide, they do it out of their own free will and choice, not because of the Church.
They have no one to blame but themselves for that choice. No one makes anyone commit suicide.
Stop blaming the church. The church is doing its best to love the sinner while hating the sin.
Shame on Desnews for the title.. | 1:28 p.m. June 23, 2009
Are they trying to be obscene with the title of this article????
i'm only kidding...
i'm only kidding...
Anonymous | 1:40 p.m. June 23, 2009
"The gay community is the first to announce that they are outside of this
pattern and to demand that God change."
No one in the "gay community" is demanding that God change. They just want to be treated as equal Americans in this free country without your beliefs dictating how they can chieve their own pursuit of happiness.
You can believe what you want to. Gays have plenty of churches to pick from that totally accept them. They just do not want to be second class citizens when they are law-abiding Americans, just like you.
No one in the "gay community" is demanding that God change. They just want to be treated as equal Americans in this free country without your beliefs dictating how they can chieve their own pursuit of happiness.
You can believe what you want to. Gays have plenty of churches to pick from that totally accept them. They just do not want to be second class citizens when they are law-abiding Americans, just like you.
The Rock | 1:41 p.m. June 23, 2009
I think that God should apologize for what he did at Sodom and Gomorrah. It was
not fair to all those gay people. How dare God, who gave them life, destroy two
whole cities for misusing their procreative powers?
God should also apologize for Romans chapter 1 in the New Testament.
There is a reconciliation process. It is called repentance.
I wonder, who should repent, God or the gays?
Joseph Smith was repremanded by God for fearing man more than God.
The more the homosexual community protests the LDS church the more convinced I am that the LDS church is right.
God should also apologize for Romans chapter 1 in the New Testament.
There is a reconciliation process. It is called repentance.
I wonder, who should repent, God or the gays?
Joseph Smith was repremanded by God for fearing man more than God.
The more the homosexual community protests the LDS church the more convinced I am that the LDS church is right.
Re: Anonymous @ 1:20 | 1:45 p.m. June 23, 2009
I agree there is way too much judging from many LDS people (I am LDS by the
way). There is also plenty of judging of LDS people from those who are gay (I
also struggle with same-sex attraction). I'm not accusing you of judging
at all, but I think there is a difference between explaining your beliefs and
condemning others for not agreeing with them. As someone who is a devout Mormon
who struggles with same-sex attraction, my beliefs may be somewhat unique (I
believe the church's position is correct, though many members and opponents
of the church don't actually know what that position is.) There is plenty
of hate in many comments from both sides, but there is also honest and sincere
opinions. I say ignore the bigots and try to learn from those who have a
different perspective.
CP Warnick | 1:49 p.m. June 23, 2009
This is more than a gay issue. Its an issue of freedom of religion. The LDS
Church and other churches as well believe that marriage is between and man and a
woman. The constitution allows for freedom to believe and uphold those values
and beliefs.
To 12:56p.m Re To Sick and Tired | 1:49 p.m. June 23, 2009
I did not choose my sexual orientation. Yes, you're right, I did choose to
act on it--Because I see no reason I should live a lonely life void of love and
affection just because of the superstitions of others.
mean spirited | 1:50 p.m. June 23, 2009
These blogs sure do bring out the meanest LDS within the church. You folks all
need to repent and get a life and learn kindness towards others. You folks are
all too full of hate.
Boooo! | 2:07 p.m. June 23, 2009
Wm Wright posting at 1:26 ought to be ashamed of himself. Yes people have a
right to their opinion. But they have no respectable right in civil society to
spread outright lies and to be intentionally insulting.
Gay people responsible for 65% of murders? What complete nonsense will they smear gay people with next?
Gay people responsible for 65% of murders? What complete nonsense will they smear gay people with next?
Re: anonymous 1:20 | 2:07 p.m. June 23, 2009
and Vince.
Here's an "active" LDS heterosexual who supports you and is sympathetic with your very difficult choice. I believe the scriptures say something to the effect of "by which measure ye judge, ye will be judged." To those who judge you, let them walk a mile in your shoes.
God bless
Here's an "active" LDS heterosexual who supports you and is sympathetic with your very difficult choice. I believe the scriptures say something to the effect of "by which measure ye judge, ye will be judged." To those who judge you, let them walk a mile in your shoes.
God bless
Moot point | 2:08 p.m. June 23, 2009
The LDS church may not even be true. Who am I to say?
Harlin | 2:10 p.m. June 23, 2009
It seems to me that those that keep bringing up the fact that the church
"changed its stance on poligamy and blacks getting the priesthood" are
confused. There is nothing in the scriptures that says the blacks couldn't
receive the priesthood or that poligamy was or wasn't approriate. (see the
old testimont with all sorts of wives and concubines) and yet there you CAN find
scriptures about homosexuality being a sin. Now we have modern revelation that
specifies what that means. You can be an active gay Mormon as long as you are
celibate. But for some reason that isn't good enough. Ihave a brother who
is gay and he can't even believe what he is seeing from pro-gay groups and
those of you that think the church is wrong.
Re: 1:49 | 2:13 p.m. June 23, 2009
I respect that. Do you respect my decision not to act on it because of my
"crazy superstitions"?
Anonymous | 2:17 p.m. June 23, 2009
If this is truly about freedom of religion as some claim, then why are churches
like the Unitarian Church and the Congregationalist Church that honor marriage
equality not free to perform marriages between men or women?
Anonymous | 2:21 p.m. June 23, 2009
CP Warnick | 1:49 p.m. June 23, 2009
"This is more than a gay issue. Its an issue of freedom of religion. The LDS Church and other churches as well believe that marriage is between and man and a woman. The constitution allows for freedom to believe and uphold those values and beliefs."
And you may do so in your church. But to force everyone through laws to obey your beliefs is a little overbearing and very un-American.
"This is more than a gay issue. Its an issue of freedom of religion. The LDS Church and other churches as well believe that marriage is between and man and a woman. The constitution allows for freedom to believe and uphold those values and beliefs."
And you may do so in your church. But to force everyone through laws to obey your beliefs is a little overbearing and very un-American.
1:49 | 2:29 p.m. June 23, 2009
I don't believe in telling others how they should live. And I didn't
call them crazy.
Re: 2:17 & 2:21 | 2:39 p.m. June 23, 2009
Government recognition of same-sex marriage will have a profound effect on
society and gay activists know it. It will marginalize any person or
organization that believes that gay marriage is an abomination. The Mormon
Church teaches that people who engage in this kind of activity are causing a
serious detriment to themselves and their families. If the government
instituted policies that said that having intimate same-gender relationships is
just as legitimate as having heterosexual relationships, it would only be a
matter of time before a vast majority of Americans agree with that position. I
think that same-sex marriage is inevitable, but I still oppose it because I
believe that it will cause a lot of damage to people. I don't hate gay
people, I just think that the activity they engage in is extremely harmful to
themselves; both physically and spiritually. I know that is paternalistic. The
Church is here to help save all souls. I respect the right of anyone to do
whatever they want, but I will do everything I can to HELP people that I think
are harming themselves from continuing on their path.
We all struggle | 2:40 p.m. June 23, 2009
A resounding "Hear! Hear!" to Anti-what? | 7:05 a.m.
No, I don't struggle with same-sex attraction, nor do I struggle with alcoholism, but I have a personal, physical struggle that has plagued me for decades and at times has scared me to death. I may someday be free of the temptation, but I am grateful every day for the Savior's love and support through the atonement that allows me to keep ahead of the nearly daily temptations. I learned long ago that giving in to those temptations does NOT bring happiness, but a cheap substitute that has no substance, does not endure and destroys my peace. I find TRUE happiness and joy in following the Savior.
I sympathize with those who struggle with same-sex attraction, but as Sheri Dew has observed, talking about mortality, "We'll almost certainly struggle with some kind of physical appetite, and perhaps several." I find Stephanie Meyer's Twilight Series wonderfully allegorical, with the Cullen family of vampires choosing to go against their "nature" of consuming human blood, choosing animal blood instead. If we all followed our "nature", what a grim world we'd devolve to.
No, I don't struggle with same-sex attraction, nor do I struggle with alcoholism, but I have a personal, physical struggle that has plagued me for decades and at times has scared me to death. I may someday be free of the temptation, but I am grateful every day for the Savior's love and support through the atonement that allows me to keep ahead of the nearly daily temptations. I learned long ago that giving in to those temptations does NOT bring happiness, but a cheap substitute that has no substance, does not endure and destroys my peace. I find TRUE happiness and joy in following the Savior.
I sympathize with those who struggle with same-sex attraction, but as Sheri Dew has observed, talking about mortality, "We'll almost certainly struggle with some kind of physical appetite, and perhaps several." I find Stephanie Meyer's Twilight Series wonderfully allegorical, with the Cullen family of vampires choosing to go against their "nature" of consuming human blood, choosing animal blood instead. If we all followed our "nature", what a grim world we'd devolve to.
I am in! | 2:54 p.m. June 23, 2009
Maybe this "organization" can drop the petition by my house. It would
have the same affect as taking it to Church Head quarters. Times are getting
rough and the faithfull will face so much more, especially from those fellow
saints who allow their sympathies to cloud their judgement and morals. God did
not change his mind about polygamy, but it is not being practiced at this time
because of the unrest in the world, and the Laws of the Land.
tjw | 2:58 p.m. June 23, 2009
Anonymous; Goodness. Why is it that any discussion of the gay/straight
lifestyle comes back to Mormons, Your comment about why is it that Mormons
think they can decide what is moral or immoral is ignorant. Are Mormons the
only ones that are saying that homosexual activity is immoral. Somehow I
don't think so. 2% of the votes in California came from NON mormons. If
Mormons are the ones deciding what is immoral then why are they such a tiny % of
the American people and yet there is a huge majority of US people that are
against it? Some of your people's comments make me laugh. If there is
anything negative then lets blame the Mormons!!!
Anonymous | 3:04 p.m. June 23, 2009
"Government recognition of same-sex marriage will have a profound effect on
society and gay activists know it. It will marginalize any person or
organization that believes that gay marriage is an abomination."
So, conversely, by government NOT recognizing gay marriage, does it marginalize those persons or organizaions that believe that gay marriage is necessary to keep this country one of equality for all?
So, conversely, by government NOT recognizing gay marriage, does it marginalize those persons or organizaions that believe that gay marriage is necessary to keep this country one of equality for all?
162 people signed? | 3:39 p.m. June 23, 2009
Why is this even news?
Wow | 3:40 p.m. June 23, 2009
The church really doesn't love the sinner with comments like these. Sheesh!
Pretty sure Jesus wasn't worried about Gay people when he was on earth - if
he was, please let me know where he addressed it.
Have any of you Mormons actually talked with a gay person and asked them their experience in the church? No, I'm not asking if you know any gay person, but has gay LDS member explained to you his/her experience growing up in the LDS church? If not, maybe you should. Then you will understand why this group is organizing that petition.
To the level headed people reading these comments - I am apologize for how my fellow LDS church members have acted in their insensitive comments. While they may be the majority, they don't represent the entire church members' feelings.
Oh, and P.S. - Blaming suicide rates on being gay alone is ridiculous! Blaming gay suicides on how they are treated by society is rational, and our society (LDS or not) needs to address this problem and change how we treat them. Pretty sure that is what Jesus would say.
Have any of you Mormons actually talked with a gay person and asked them their experience in the church? No, I'm not asking if you know any gay person, but has gay LDS member explained to you his/her experience growing up in the LDS church? If not, maybe you should. Then you will understand why this group is organizing that petition.
To the level headed people reading these comments - I am apologize for how my fellow LDS church members have acted in their insensitive comments. While they may be the majority, they don't represent the entire church members' feelings.
Oh, and P.S. - Blaming suicide rates on being gay alone is ridiculous! Blaming gay suicides on how they are treated by society is rational, and our society (LDS or not) needs to address this problem and change how we treat them. Pretty sure that is what Jesus would say.
re: John C, et al | 3:50 p.m. June 23, 2009
It is a simple truth that there are men and women that are attracted to same sex
relationships. It is also true that there are many men and women that are
attracted to ooposite sex relations ships.
It is the choice that each takes in either acting upon those desires or the choice the refrain from actions that are contrary to the will of God that defines their lives as being on the path of evel or of good. God has not changed the matter of right or wrong.
Pettitioning religious leaders to say that with is contrary to God's explicit declaration of right vs. wrong does not cause God to change.
From the time of Adam, to Noah. to Abraham
It is the choice that each takes in either acting upon those desires or the choice the refrain from actions that are contrary to the will of God that defines their lives as being on the path of evel or of good. God has not changed the matter of right or wrong.
Pettitioning religious leaders to say that with is contrary to God's explicit declaration of right vs. wrong does not cause God to change.
From the time of Adam, to Noah. to Abraham
@William D. Wright | 1:26 | 3:53 p.m. June 23, 2009
Interesting... do you realize that there are many heterosexuals that engage in
sodomy? Why do you chose to apply a word to a group of people for a practice
that is used amongst people of all orientations?
In a living language, words and their meaning have many connotations and because the language is being used those connotations are in constant flux. Think about the word 'sick' which is now applied to something that is cool, outrageous or over-the-top.
You should also update your facts - the highest percentage of STD infections in the U.S. are amongst the teen to late 20's demographic. One reason is that many people feel that kids should be taught 'abstinence-only' and that will protect them. We now see the fallout of that decision.
I have some descriptive words that I will use to describe you: "Fuddy-duddy" and "head-in-the-sand."
In a living language, words and their meaning have many connotations and because the language is being used those connotations are in constant flux. Think about the word 'sick' which is now applied to something that is cool, outrageous or over-the-top.
You should also update your facts - the highest percentage of STD infections in the U.S. are amongst the teen to late 20's demographic. One reason is that many people feel that kids should be taught 'abstinence-only' and that will protect them. We now see the fallout of that decision.
I have some descriptive words that I will use to describe you: "Fuddy-duddy" and "head-in-the-sand."
The Church is Anti-Sin | 4:43 p.m. June 23, 2009
As I see it, the Church is Anti-Sin, Not anti-gay. I believe the Church
welcomes homosexuals into the Church but discourages the practice of homosexual
behavior. Its really quite simple.
taliban | 4:45 p.m. June 23, 2009
to - Re: 2:17 & 2:21 | 2:39 p.m
["I will do everything I can to HELP people that I think are harming themselves from continuing on their path."]
do you have any idea how big brother and gestapo-ish that sounds? who are you to decide whether people are harming themselves?
you sound exactly like a taliban enforcer...
["I will do everything I can to HELP people that I think are harming themselves from continuing on their path."]
do you have any idea how big brother and gestapo-ish that sounds? who are you to decide whether people are harming themselves?
you sound exactly like a taliban enforcer...
Yahoo! | 5:13 p.m. June 23, 2009
Excellent!!! I'm so happy for this!!! Now all we need is for them to launch
a website asking Al Qaeda to soften their stance and apologize for the hurtful
things they say about Americans! I can't wait for everything to work out
and we'll all be happy and live under love and rainbows! I'm going to
go ask Osama for a hug!
Jaime | 6:24 p.m. June 23, 2009
"As I see it, the Church is Anti-Sin, Not anti-gay. I believe the Church
welcomes homosexuals into the Church but discourages the practice of homosexual
behavior. Its really quite simple."
------------
If this were the case then the multitudes of religious zealots would campaign against homosexual acts, not against the civil rights of homosexuals. LDS has no interest in protecting the civil rights of homosexuals.
Anyone who states they are not anti-gay but do not believe gay people should engage in any homosexual acts should just fess up to being anti-gay. It might give you some more merit since at least you could claim the credibility of being honest about it. The "pro-gay but anti-homosexual act" stance isn't fooling any reasonable person.
That being said, this comment will disappear soon just like my previous comment. Apparently the editors of this news outlet feel the need to edit comments that don't comply with a "Salt Lake City" attitude. I'm glad that up here in Seattle we have free speech and open minds.
------------
If this were the case then the multitudes of religious zealots would campaign against homosexual acts, not against the civil rights of homosexuals. LDS has no interest in protecting the civil rights of homosexuals.
Anyone who states they are not anti-gay but do not believe gay people should engage in any homosexual acts should just fess up to being anti-gay. It might give you some more merit since at least you could claim the credibility of being honest about it. The "pro-gay but anti-homosexual act" stance isn't fooling any reasonable person.
That being said, this comment will disappear soon just like my previous comment. Apparently the editors of this news outlet feel the need to edit comments that don't comply with a "Salt Lake City" attitude. I'm glad that up here in Seattle we have free speech and open minds.
Jimbin | 6:44 p.m. June 23, 2009
God says it is wrong, I believe him. That is the end of the discussion!
mormon coloring book | 6:59 p.m. June 23, 2009
I refer anyone with questions about the LDS church's position on gay
marriage to page 25 of the mormon coloring book, just remember not to color
outside the lines or god will send you to......well you know.
While they're at it | 7:22 p.m. June 23, 2009
I'd like them to soften their stance on pornography and adultery... and
let's throw gambling in there just for kicks - the Vegas trifecta
To DAJC | 8:51 p.m. June 23, 2009
You must stand corrected: Not only is the Church true, is is indeed PERFECT.
The people in it are definitely not perfect, myself included, but the Church in
the way it is organized, just exactly as it was in Christ's day, is
absolutely 100% perfect.
Suicide | 12:08 a.m. June 24, 2009
People who commit suicide are usually mentally unstable not because they were
rejected by another person or organization. If the prime reason why you commit
suicide is because you have been alienated or rejected, then we should all be on
suicide watch because who hasn't felt that way in some shape or fashion!
Anonymous | 12:33 a.m. June 24, 2009
You people are seriously freakish.
CharlieBrown2292 | 4:09 a.m. June 24, 2009
Children develop a sense of their own identity and become emotionally fulfilled
through an ongoing relationship with parents of both sexes. Since mariage
guarantees this sacred threesome, it shouldn't be a surprise for anyone to
know that the LDS Church will never make any compromise in defining mariage as
the union of a man and a woman. Besides not understanding their religion, those
who oppose this principle are willing to please the gay community at the expense
of future generations.
Sarah Nichole | 5:31 a.m. June 24, 2009
There are many comments here about how God changed His mind about polygamy or
the priesthood, or how the LDS stance on homosexuality has changed over the
years.
The Lord's mind has been in the same place on these issues for all time. Just the policy on how we deal with them changes with the time. Polygamy has always been okay, under the proper circumstances and direction, and always been improper unless authorized by God. The priesthood has always had restrictions, whether by lineage, race or personal worthiness. And homosexual behavior has always been considered a sin, whether the person is excommunicated for it or just put under other church sanctions.
Policy changes are not the same thing as doctrinal changes, and no amount of petitioning is going to change the doctrine OR the policy unless the Lord deems it appropriate.
The Lord's mind has been in the same place on these issues for all time. Just the policy on how we deal with them changes with the time. Polygamy has always been okay, under the proper circumstances and direction, and always been improper unless authorized by God. The priesthood has always had restrictions, whether by lineage, race or personal worthiness. And homosexual behavior has always been considered a sin, whether the person is excommunicated for it or just put under other church sanctions.
Policy changes are not the same thing as doctrinal changes, and no amount of petitioning is going to change the doctrine OR the policy unless the Lord deems it appropriate.
Re: Vince | 5:52 a.m. June 24, 2009
"That my orientation/identity does not fit the parameters of what some
would call "revelation" --- (sorry - Prop 8 is not revelation,
people)..."
No, Prop 8 certainly isn't a revelation, but guess what, Vince? It says the exact same thing that actual revelations have said, aside from adding "in the state of California" at the end. The Family: A Proclamation to the World is a summation of all LDS church doctrines and revelations on the subject of marriage, family and gender roles. One of the things that it teaches - pulled from multiple other sources, including divine revelation - is that marriage is between man and woman.
Sexual orientation is not sexual behavior. They are two very different things. One is able to be attracted to anybody they have feelings for and still be an active member in good standing, so long as he/she doesn't act on his/her attraction. But acting on your attractions outside of the parameters the Lord has set - legal marriage between man and woman - will require much repentence to overcome, and will probably require church disciplinary action against you.
No, Prop 8 certainly isn't a revelation, but guess what, Vince? It says the exact same thing that actual revelations have said, aside from adding "in the state of California" at the end. The Family: A Proclamation to the World is a summation of all LDS church doctrines and revelations on the subject of marriage, family and gender roles. One of the things that it teaches - pulled from multiple other sources, including divine revelation - is that marriage is between man and woman.
Sexual orientation is not sexual behavior. They are two very different things. One is able to be attracted to anybody they have feelings for and still be an active member in good standing, so long as he/she doesn't act on his/her attraction. But acting on your attractions outside of the parameters the Lord has set - legal marriage between man and woman - will require much repentence to overcome, and will probably require church disciplinary action against you.
Celibacy doesn't justify stance | 7:14 a.m. June 24, 2009
Celibacy is a way of life for many LDS members. LDS believe that sexual
relations outside of marriage are sin. There are many young women who grow up in
the church unable to attract a mate, and face a long life of forced celibacy as
a result. Ironically there is no female force in the church trying to bring back
polygamy so that this sort of trouble could be alleviated. There is no female
force in the church trying to redefine chastity. The assumption that LDS church
leaders 'just don't relate' to homosexuals is ridiculous. That
doesn't mean that life as an active member of the church is going to be a
cakewalk, if the path ahead means living a chaste life to the end of the road,
but then, I would imagine nearly every married man in the church must experience
extended periods of humiliating celibacy, in which his wife is unable to do
according to his appetites, and those appetites must be stymied with chastity,
fidelity and self-discipline.
Sadly so many end in failure, even among the married. Perhaps if one were to focus on forgetting oneself none of these debates would be necessary.
Sadly so many end in failure, even among the married. Perhaps if one were to focus on forgetting oneself none of these debates would be necessary.
Re: Anonymous 1:20 p.m. | 7:46 a.m. June 24, 2009
"Can you imagine a life filled with no touching, no hugging, no physical
contact with anyone? That is what my life would have been if I had gone
back."
Um. I'm a single adult, and I'm completely celibate, and I touch people, and hug them, and have physical contact with others daily. That's not being celibate, that's being anthropophobic.
If you can't hug somebody or touch them on the arm without wanting to sleep with them, I'd suggest that maybe it's time to talk to a therapist.
Um. I'm a single adult, and I'm completely celibate, and I touch people, and hug them, and have physical contact with others daily. That's not being celibate, that's being anthropophobic.
If you can't hug somebody or touch them on the arm without wanting to sleep with them, I'd suggest that maybe it's time to talk to a therapist.
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why would gays even care what this church thinks? other than them telling all their little drones to contribute to a lost cause - since prop 8 won't stand for long - it's impossible for it to - this church has no real power. They are good at convincing weak-willed people to give them 10% of their check, but other than that they are pretty useless.
I suggest gays simply forget about these loonies and concentrate on presentng their civil rights case to the american people. The younger set is ready to allow gay marriage, and as soon as the old horses die off it won't be an issue.
besides, all the money the drones are spreading around to promote false accusations about gays is actually helping the economy. So let them spend their money that way - it's a boost to the economy and just shows how antiquated they are...