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LDS Church urged to soften gay stance
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Not impressed | 1:04 a.m. June 23, 2009
How many people passed prop 8 and somehow we feel the need to cover an anti-
Mormon petition with a purported 162 names on it?
Yawn.
Yawn.
John C. | 2:18 a.m. June 23, 2009
It is just fascinating to me the way people think revelation works. From the
beginning of time God ordained a man and woman as his plan for happiness and has
said through countless prophets that the gay life style is immoral, but now
people think that because they make more noise about it, God will change is
mind. Yes we know God destroyed Sodom and Gomorra because of it, were sure Hes
had a change of heart by now. Is that what you people really think?
I also love the tactic they use, that if anyone has a different opinion then theirs, then it is a hate issue. Oh Please..
Yes we are members of the LDS church, we are also members of this society and we have the right to voice our opinion on what is best for the society in which we live.
I also love the tactic they use, that if anyone has a different opinion then theirs, then it is a hate issue. Oh Please..
Yes we are members of the LDS church, we are also members of this society and we have the right to voice our opinion on what is best for the society in which we live.
Comments continue below
Bot | 4:10 a.m. June 23, 2009
When marriage loses its unique status, women and children most frequently are
the direct victims. Giving same-sex relationships or out-of-wedlock heterosexual
couples the same special status and benefits as the marital bond would not be
the expansion of a right but the destruction of a principle. . If the
one-man/one-woman definition of marriage is broken, there is no logical stopping
point for continuing the assault on marriage.
If feelings are the key requirement, then why not let three people marry, or two adults and a child, or consenting blood relatives of any age? . Marriage-based kinship is essential to stability and continuity in our state. Child abuse is much more prevalent when a living arrangement is not based on kinship. Kinship imparts family names, heritage, and property, secures the identity and commitment of fathers for the sake of the children, and entails mutual obligations to the community.
If feelings are the key requirement, then why not let three people marry, or two adults and a child, or consenting blood relatives of any age? . Marriage-based kinship is essential to stability and continuity in our state. Child abuse is much more prevalent when a living arrangement is not based on kinship. Kinship imparts family names, heritage, and property, secures the identity and commitment of fathers for the sake of the children, and entails mutual obligations to the community.
Bot | 4:12 a.m. June 23, 2009
The US Supreme Court declared in 1885 that states' marriage laws must be
based on "the idea of the family, as consisting in and springing from the
union for life of one man and one woman in the holy estate of matrimony; the
sure foundation of all that is stable and noble in our civilization, the best
guaranty of that reverent morality which is the source of all beneficent
progress in social and political improvement.''
Bot | 4:13 a.m. June 23, 2009
Marriage reflects the natural moral and social law evidenced the world over. As
the late British social anthropologist Joseph Daniel Unwin noted in his study of
world civilizations, any society that devalued the nuclear family soon lost what
he called "expansive energy," which might best be summarized as
society's will to make things better for the next generation. In fact, no
society that has loosened sexual morality outside of man-woman marriage has
survived.
Analyzing studies of cultures spanning several thousands of years on several continents, Harvard sociologist Pitirim Sorokin found that virtually all political revolutions that brought about societal collapse were preceded by a sexual revolution in which marriage and family were devalued by the cultures acceptance of homosexuality.
Analyzing studies of cultures spanning several thousands of years on several continents, Harvard sociologist Pitirim Sorokin found that virtually all political revolutions that brought about societal collapse were preceded by a sexual revolution in which marriage and family were devalued by the cultures acceptance of homosexuality.
Timberwolf | 5:09 a.m. June 23, 2009
Why should the church soften it's stance against gay unions, after all the
work it's done over the years to promote the sanctity of marriage and the
family?
Those in this group that are Lds should follow the directions of their leaders and quit fighting against them, the real issue is not tolerance it's morality, if you cannot grasp this concept maybe you can't grasp the rest of the church's concepts either.
Those in this group that are Lds should follow the directions of their leaders and quit fighting against them, the real issue is not tolerance it's morality, if you cannot grasp this concept maybe you can't grasp the rest of the church's concepts either.
Anti gay policies | 5:40 a.m. June 23, 2009
Sure the LDS church opposes gay activities. They do so because these activities
are wrong. No amount of verbage will change that. No amount of protest will
change church policy against it. Get over it.
K | 5:47 a.m. June 23, 2009
LDS apology, the church does not have blood on it's hand. Just like being
gay is able to not let you be a member in the church, so are blood transfusions
for the Jehovah's witnesses, baptism of babies in the catholic church.
each church has a set of requirements, and if you don't make them, then you
can't become a member. I feel bad for the boy who killed himself, but that
was not the churches fault. He knew the rules of the church, and didn't
want to change. This is the belief of the church, so I don't see them
softening on this one.
fred | 6:02 a.m. June 23, 2009
The church has always been against homosexuality, and will forever. You're
not going to change their mind.
To LDS apology 12:57 | 6:13 a.m. June 23, 2009
Homosexuals have a higher rate of suicide and mental illness in ALL countries,
even in the Netherlands which might be the most gay-friendly nation on the
planet.
Perhaps it is you who should apologize.
As for the site, it is full of inaccuracies, including the suicide information above. It should be noted that the Utah suicide rate is actually on the LOW side for the intermountain west. Look it up.
It also perpetuates the myth that same-sex attraction is inborn and unchangeable. Science begs to differ with the first assertion, and my own experience shows that a normal heterosexual life can be had even if one self-identifies as gay earlier in life.
While same-sex attraction is not chosen, to pursue the associated lifestyle definitely is a choice.
All people can do a better job of nurturing their neighbors who are attracted to the same sex, no doubt. It is an important part of the therapy process. However, if petitions like this are to attain any credibility, they should first expunge their dishonest and false claims.
Perhaps it is you who should apologize.
As for the site, it is full of inaccuracies, including the suicide information above. It should be noted that the Utah suicide rate is actually on the LOW side for the intermountain west. Look it up.
It also perpetuates the myth that same-sex attraction is inborn and unchangeable. Science begs to differ with the first assertion, and my own experience shows that a normal heterosexual life can be had even if one self-identifies as gay earlier in life.
While same-sex attraction is not chosen, to pursue the associated lifestyle definitely is a choice.
All people can do a better job of nurturing their neighbors who are attracted to the same sex, no doubt. It is an important part of the therapy process. However, if petitions like this are to attain any credibility, they should first expunge their dishonest and false claims.
Paul in MD | 6:24 a.m. June 23, 2009
One of the primary differences between the LDS church and other Christian
denominations is that we believe doctrine comes from God through the prophet.
Changes to doctrine do not come from the "grass roots".
We believe that we are each entitled to revelation and inspiration from God relating to our spheres of responsibility. I am responsible for my family, so I am entitled to revelation to guide my family. I don't have responsibility for my ward, so I can't walk up to the bishop and say "you're doing thus and such wrong, I had a revelation and it should be done this way."
By the same token, a group of people who disagree with church teachings and policy don't have the responsibility or authority to tell the brethren in Salt Lake that they have it wrong.
I don't pretend to understand all the issues faced by homosexuals, but I do not believe that this or any other petition is going to open the door to full fellowship in the LDS church for them. Nor do I believe it should.
We believe that we are each entitled to revelation and inspiration from God relating to our spheres of responsibility. I am responsible for my family, so I am entitled to revelation to guide my family. I don't have responsibility for my ward, so I can't walk up to the bishop and say "you're doing thus and such wrong, I had a revelation and it should be done this way."
By the same token, a group of people who disagree with church teachings and policy don't have the responsibility or authority to tell the brethren in Salt Lake that they have it wrong.
I don't pretend to understand all the issues faced by homosexuals, but I do not believe that this or any other petition is going to open the door to full fellowship in the LDS church for them. Nor do I believe it should.
Think Again | 6:55 a.m. June 23, 2009
Church doctrine doesn't change just because a group who doesn't like
it and doesn't want to abide by it starts a petition. Neither does
upholding Church doctrine equal hatemongering. Yes, it really is that simple.
One man + one woman = marriage. It's always been that way and always will
be.
Svoboda | 6:55 a.m. June 23, 2009
1) You can be a LDS church member and still "think" you are gay.
2) The LDS stand on homosexuality is abundantly clear. One thing about the LDS church is it does not waffle on it's beliefs.
3) You might as well try to swim up Niagra Falls if try and change the Church regarding this.
Anonymous | 7:00 a.m. June 23, 2009
People think they know more than the lord on that matter. As Ezra TAft Benson
said pride is not concerned with what is right but who is right.
anti-what? | 7:05 a.m. June 23, 2009
Every time I hear gays whining about the Church's stand on their
"lifestyle," as a recovering alcoholic, I have to laugh. How many
alcoholics are there in the Church? Should the Church soften it's stand on
the Word of Wisdom and allow "practicing" alcoholics to, say, hold
leadership positions? Attend the Temple? Teach Primary?
No. A "practicing" alcoholic must cease "practicing" (drinking) before holding leadership positions or going to the Temple. Nobody questions that -- you would be laughed at for trying.
Alcoholics have to stop drinking alcohol, and start drinking kool-aid. It took me over 20 years of being on my toes before I actually had a taste for non-alcoholic drinks. Now, after 33 years of sobriety, I am still not "completely safe," but am much better.
Ditto with the gays. You can be a gay member of the Church, just like I am an alcoholic member of the Church. We just cannot "practice" our respective physical challenges. And, yes, you might spend decades living with your challenge before you overcome it.
That's not hate; that's not uncaring: It is the actual and real Plan of Salvation and Atonement in action.
No. A "practicing" alcoholic must cease "practicing" (drinking) before holding leadership positions or going to the Temple. Nobody questions that -- you would be laughed at for trying.
Alcoholics have to stop drinking alcohol, and start drinking kool-aid. It took me over 20 years of being on my toes before I actually had a taste for non-alcoholic drinks. Now, after 33 years of sobriety, I am still not "completely safe," but am much better.
Ditto with the gays. You can be a gay member of the Church, just like I am an alcoholic member of the Church. We just cannot "practice" our respective physical challenges. And, yes, you might spend decades living with your challenge before you overcome it.
That's not hate; that's not uncaring: It is the actual and real Plan of Salvation and Atonement in action.
Anonymous | 7:08 a.m. June 23, 2009
And please stop telling us that being married as a gay person is a civil right.
You can't choose to be white/black but you sure can choose to be gay. Like
any other behavior defect in man, being gay can't simply be accepted and
demand rights based on their behavior. Should the government treat all behavior
abnormalities as civil rights too?
Humans that have a healthly mental state don't define themselves based on their sexual orientation. No need to announce to the world that we are not gay. No one cares. Marriage was ordained for the bearing and rearing of children. That's a responsibility and ability that God didn't give to gay people.
Humans that have a healthly mental state don't define themselves based on their sexual orientation. No need to announce to the world that we are not gay. No one cares. Marriage was ordained for the bearing and rearing of children. That's a responsibility and ability that God didn't give to gay people.
Enough Already | 7:09 a.m. June 23, 2009
Read the Bible. 2 Timothy Chapter 3. Stop wanting the LDS church to condone your
immoral behavior. You do have the right to choose what you do with your life,
but don't expect and even demand the LDS church or anyone else to agree
with you or support your immoral actions. For the Lord cannot look upon sin with
the least degree of allowance. Now, with that said, should you wish to repent
and come unto Christ, I believe that the LDS church or any other church would
welcome you with open arms as I believe there is much good that is and can be
done by those who are gay and lesbian. I wish the energy and efforts and money
that have been and will be used to perpetuate the gay and lesbian causes could
be used to do good in the world for others.
mk | 7:18 a.m. June 23, 2009
The Church cannot change it's stance on this because it is the NOT the
Church's place to do so.
God the Father and his Son head up the church and the leaders here are only his spokesmen. We do what we are told to do, by a loving and wise Father who knows what is best for us.
Those people who keep trying to change the Lord's mind are like little children whinning because their parent won't let them do something that they cannot see to be dangerous or wrong.
God the Father and his Son head up the church and the leaders here are only his spokesmen. We do what we are told to do, by a loving and wise Father who knows what is best for us.
Those people who keep trying to change the Lord's mind are like little children whinning because their parent won't let them do something that they cannot see to be dangerous or wrong.
TO: anti-what? | 7:21 a.m. June 23, 2009
Very well put. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Re: anti-what? | 7:26 a.m. June 23, 2009
First of all, congratulations on three decades of sobriety! That's a major
accomplishment - or a series of thousands of daily accomplishments - and you
should be very proud of yourself.
Secondly, I agree completely with your comments. We all have temptations and challenges that we struggle with, and some of them are very, very difficult to overcome. It doesn't mean we stop trying to do what the Lord asks of us. You wouldn't tell a heroin user to just accept his situation and stop trying to overcome his natural inclinations, and the LDS church isn't going to tell its people to stop trying to overcome the natural man and live the laws that Heavenly Father has put forth. They're ultimately to our benefit, and it can be done.
There are many single adults in the LDS church who live lives of celibacy for various reasons, and it only becomes an issue if they make it one.
Secondly, I agree completely with your comments. We all have temptations and challenges that we struggle with, and some of them are very, very difficult to overcome. It doesn't mean we stop trying to do what the Lord asks of us. You wouldn't tell a heroin user to just accept his situation and stop trying to overcome his natural inclinations, and the LDS church isn't going to tell its people to stop trying to overcome the natural man and live the laws that Heavenly Father has put forth. They're ultimately to our benefit, and it can be done.
There are many single adults in the LDS church who live lives of celibacy for various reasons, and it only becomes an issue if they make it one.
Break the tablets | 7:33 a.m. June 23, 2009
LDSapology reminds me of the children of Isreal building the golden calf and
worshiping Idols when Moses went up on the mountain. Their pride and selfishness
cause them to become bold and misguided.
GayApology | 7:35 a.m. June 23, 2009
I, in the spirit of love and peace, call on the gay movement to discontinue
their policies and stop their hatred toward religions and people of faith
everywhere. I understand that homosexuality has been in existence for thousands
of years and despite their efforts, issues of gender and sexuality do not
continue to evolve and should not change the definition of marriage.
Marc | 7:39 a.m. June 23, 2009
The Church never preaches hate toward anyone practicing homosexuality. The
Church preaches tolerance and love...it always has. We members must uphold that
standard as the Savior taught. Tolerance does not equate to acceptance and it
never will.
We must maintain the standard with kindness and love. The liberal left wants to paint us as mean, hateful, conspiratorial, and vengeful.
Many of us have not yet learned to reject the sin and not the person. That takes living closer to the spirit to know how to do.
I believe if we more fully understood the atonement we could be more appropriately be tolerant of the person and not the sin. I know the Savior sincerely showed love to all, but rejected the sin.
Listen to the tone of those who quote scripture.
Maybe we should read scripture more to understand the atonement and quote it less to attempt proving a point.
We must maintain the standard with kindness and love. The liberal left wants to paint us as mean, hateful, conspiratorial, and vengeful.
Many of us have not yet learned to reject the sin and not the person. That takes living closer to the spirit to know how to do.
I believe if we more fully understood the atonement we could be more appropriately be tolerant of the person and not the sin. I know the Savior sincerely showed love to all, but rejected the sin.
Listen to the tone of those who quote scripture.
Maybe we should read scripture more to understand the atonement and quote it less to attempt proving a point.
Evets | 7:39 a.m. June 23, 2009
I agree with most of the prior postings. Pressure does not change doctrine.
Now I predict that as the day wears on the gays around the country that have their web search engines set to find gay related articles will discover this one and we will be flooded by pro-gay and "Mormons are hate mongers" postings to this article. My advice to them....Quit wasting your time!
Now I predict that as the day wears on the gays around the country that have their web search engines set to find gay related articles will discover this one and we will be flooded by pro-gay and "Mormons are hate mongers" postings to this article. My advice to them....Quit wasting your time!
To John C., Svaboda, etc. | 8:01 a.m. June 23, 2009
I'm a good LDS member, but I have to make a few comments:
1. Many outside the church believe we "caved" in 1979 and with the polygamist manifesto. Revelation or no, they're right about one thing--there was a lot (a lot) of noise surrounding the church. Thus, if the church has caved from political pressure in the past, how can you be so sure they won't again?
2. Yes, living the gay lifestyle is against God's will, but you're living in the dark ages if you still believe is simply a "choice" to be gay. Sorry, folks, but the majority are born that way. Thus, it IS discrimination to withhold their rights. On the flip side, it's a choice to be Mormon, and many evangelicals and athesist find that choice rehensible. What would you have thought if your beloved George Bush (a Methodist) banned the temple ceremony. You'd call it discimination and bigotry, right? Bush could respond, "Nah, it's just a choice--a bad one, because it's all secrecy and exclusion, and God loves everyone. No harm in removing bad choices." Rediculous, right?
1. Many outside the church believe we "caved" in 1979 and with the polygamist manifesto. Revelation or no, they're right about one thing--there was a lot (a lot) of noise surrounding the church. Thus, if the church has caved from political pressure in the past, how can you be so sure they won't again?
2. Yes, living the gay lifestyle is against God's will, but you're living in the dark ages if you still believe is simply a "choice" to be gay. Sorry, folks, but the majority are born that way. Thus, it IS discrimination to withhold their rights. On the flip side, it's a choice to be Mormon, and many evangelicals and athesist find that choice rehensible. What would you have thought if your beloved George Bush (a Methodist) banned the temple ceremony. You'd call it discimination and bigotry, right? Bush could respond, "Nah, it's just a choice--a bad one, because it's all secrecy and exclusion, and God loves everyone. No harm in removing bad choices." Rediculous, right?
And here come the... | 8:05 a.m. June 23, 2009
venimous gays in 3...2...1...
Is it the only church? | 8:08 a.m. June 23, 2009
I wonder...where is the apology website for all of the other denominations who
oppose homosexuality and supported Prop 8? Ask the other churches to change
their religious beliefs.
My advice is to seek to establish a law that will give civil unions insurance benefits, etc. Marraiges are clearly defined and have been for centuries. Civil unions are not marraiges and should not be classified as the same.
I find it ironic that the gay movement has no issue with trying to tell religious groups to change their beliefs yet cry "hate" when religious groups try to tell the gay movement to change their beliefs. Hypocritical stance.
We believe differently and have the right to do so.
My advice is to seek to establish a law that will give civil unions insurance benefits, etc. Marraiges are clearly defined and have been for centuries. Civil unions are not marraiges and should not be classified as the same.
I find it ironic that the gay movement has no issue with trying to tell religious groups to change their beliefs yet cry "hate" when religious groups try to tell the gay movement to change their beliefs. Hypocritical stance.
We believe differently and have the right to do so.
RECONCILIATION? | 8:11 a.m. June 23, 2009
True reconciliation requires that homosexuals of this issue be willing to
honestly examine their attitudes, behaviors (including curent & past
behaviors)with understanding and forgiveness.
I for one except their apology. But reserve the love, the will, and right to disagree with Changing the definition of marriage plain and simple
Dad of a gay son
I for one except their apology. But reserve the love, the will, and right to disagree with Changing the definition of marriage plain and simple
Dad of a gay son
FJT | 8:12 a.m. June 23, 2009
The church teaches that temple marriage is an essential element in the plan of
salvation, and therefore marriage and family become the goal of every member.
Engaging in any kind of homosexual behavior is considered to be a violation of
the law of chastity, a very serious sin. Homosexuality is seen to distort
loving relationships and prevent people from receiving the blessings that can be
found only in family life. It is difficult to imagine the awful intensity of
conflicted feelings for someone who is taught these doctrines from early
childhood but who is, nonetheless, homosexual by virtue of their inherited
biology. In addition to the desperation and sense of inferiority or even
self-hatred, they are immediately faced with the prospect of either denying
themselves a committed, loving relationship in this life, or denying their true
and natrual feelings and entering into marriage with a member of the opposite
sex in an attempt, usually unsuccesful, to find some degree of happiness. The
church offers no way out. It traps the homosexual in a web of self-loathing,
guilt and unhappiness. Yet they claim to love all homosexuals.
Anonymous | 8:14 a.m. June 23, 2009
Here's a question: why do Mormons get to decide what's
"moral" and what isn't? You're all so caught up in calling
repentence when you should realize that a person born with tendencies, and never
taught against them, is at worst living in ignorance, and is therefore
unaccountable. Nothing more. Me thinks you all need to focus a little more on
loving the sinner and hating the sin.
To Marc: you are generally correct, and thank you for your comment on the tone of these posts. Again, though, who's defining the sin?
To Evets: Only Mormons believe it WASN'T pressure that gave the blacks the priesthood, or caused the cessation of polygamy, etc. Your preaching doesn't convince them of anything, so logically, of course, you can't expect them to care, to cease their blogging, to cease building their websites, etc.
To Marc: you are generally correct, and thank you for your comment on the tone of these posts. Again, though, who's defining the sin?
To Evets: Only Mormons believe it WASN'T pressure that gave the blacks the priesthood, or caused the cessation of polygamy, etc. Your preaching doesn't convince them of anything, so logically, of course, you can't expect them to care, to cease their blogging, to cease building their websites, etc.
Agree on Tone | 8:16 a.m. June 23, 2009
Sheesh, people, can you all sound a bit less grumpy? I'm a good Mormon and
generally disagree with the "you're always holier than thou"
criticism against us, but maybe they're just reading these blogs more than
I am.
Why don't we stop pounding our chests and be a little bit nicer, huh?
Why don't we stop pounding our chests and be a little bit nicer, huh?
Sarah | 8:17 a.m. June 23, 2009
LDS apology, I agree! The church has thousands of suicides, trials of wives and
children, not to mention the horrors of day to day living for many, many gay
Mormons.
I am the wife of a gay Mormon man. We have 4 children. We struggle with but continue to be active in the church.
Many men marry because the church used to teach it would "fix" them. They have no consideration for the family of such a man.
I have many gay friends and see the struggles they go through each day as their active LDS family and friends disown them, regardless of their behavior (even if they are living church standards). How Christlike is that?
As members of the church we are not to follow our leaders blindly.
From Brigham Young: The greatest fear I have is that the people of this Church will accept what we say as the will of the Lord without first praying about it and getting the witness within their own hearts that what we say is the word of the Lord.
I plead with most of the commentators here to be more Christ-like and pray to fully understand this issue.
I am the wife of a gay Mormon man. We have 4 children. We struggle with but continue to be active in the church.
Many men marry because the church used to teach it would "fix" them. They have no consideration for the family of such a man.
I have many gay friends and see the struggles they go through each day as their active LDS family and friends disown them, regardless of their behavior (even if they are living church standards). How Christlike is that?
As members of the church we are not to follow our leaders blindly.
From Brigham Young: The greatest fear I have is that the people of this Church will accept what we say as the will of the Lord without first praying about it and getting the witness within their own hearts that what we say is the word of the Lord.
I plead with most of the commentators here to be more Christ-like and pray to fully understand this issue.
True Happiness | 8:23 a.m. June 23, 2009
Our friends, family members and co-workers in the activist faction of the
homosexual community are seeking acceptance so they can feel better about the
lifestyle many of them have chosen. This desire for societal acceptance will
not end with the marriage issue. It has been my experience that until we, with
humility, align their lives with the choices that lead to true happiness and
peace, we will never find it. Society and the LDS church can offer all the
acceptance that is being so desperately sought, but that won't change the
inner turmoil caused by disobedience to God's law.
Mike | 8:30 a.m. June 23, 2009
What I believe is the most ignorant thing about this petition is that it first
off. It wasn't the Leaders of the LDS Church that voted in California and
then secondly they weren't the ones in supreme court staying the vote. This
is simply a joke. If you wanted to have your way so badly you sure did a poor
job at the political game and you're simply mad that you lost. GET OVER
IT!!!! Complain to the state of California!!
Two things | 8:31 a.m. June 23, 2009
-The LDS Church should not and cannot change its stance on homosexuality. It
would invalidate the Church and its doctrine.
-Having said that there is NO reason to exclude and shun anyone who is not accepted by the Church due to behavioral choices. I do not have the place to judge my neighbor but am strictly told to love him. That love will be shown in increase when any sort of Church discipline is taken.
Those who profess to be LDS will understand and have seen the actions of the General Authorities of the Church. I cannot imagine any of them, once appropriate action has been taken regarding someone's membership, shunning and remaining prejudicial against that person. I only see an increase of love and concern about helping the person recover and rejoin the faithful. We would all do well to learn such lessons of care, the world would be a better place if we treated everyone better. Hate would leave, wars and contentions would subside, and we'd live in a more peaceful, caring place.
-Having said that there is NO reason to exclude and shun anyone who is not accepted by the Church due to behavioral choices. I do not have the place to judge my neighbor but am strictly told to love him. That love will be shown in increase when any sort of Church discipline is taken.
Those who profess to be LDS will understand and have seen the actions of the General Authorities of the Church. I cannot imagine any of them, once appropriate action has been taken regarding someone's membership, shunning and remaining prejudicial against that person. I only see an increase of love and concern about helping the person recover and rejoin the faithful. We would all do well to learn such lessons of care, the world would be a better place if we treated everyone better. Hate would leave, wars and contentions would subside, and we'd live in a more peaceful, caring place.
Acole | 8:34 a.m. June 23, 2009
Read 4th Nephi one more time. If you cannot follow God's plan, don't
ask God to change it, you made a choice to deviate from that plan in hope of a
destiny somewhere else than with God. Don't ask me or anyone who does not
accept your deviance to be more gentle or more accepting. It's your choice
to be different from the normal, live with it!
Solymnar | 8:50 a.m. June 23, 2009
Separation of church and state anyone?
Why should any religion care if a state recognizes civil unions? In no way does it force or compel a given religion to do the same. In no way does it increase or decrease the number of "practicing" gays as put by the representative recovering alcoholic (and bravo to you sir btw).
Yes it is genetically linked making some people predisposed to behave that way. Just like some poeple are predisposed towards being susceptable to alcoholism. We let alcoholics have state recognized unions practicing or not. If they cause problems for others they are penalized for it by the state.
I've been happily married for over nine years. My wife nor I would feel our church recognized marrige is remotely threatened by a state recognized civil union for gays. To be fair the word marriage shouldn't be used because that's not the right definition, but if they want to have their partnership recognized by the state...why should that bother me or a given religious institution?
Of course gays trying to press a religion to chance its stace is equally silly to me. /shrug
People love drama.
Why should any religion care if a state recognizes civil unions? In no way does it force or compel a given religion to do the same. In no way does it increase or decrease the number of "practicing" gays as put by the representative recovering alcoholic (and bravo to you sir btw).
Yes it is genetically linked making some people predisposed to behave that way. Just like some poeple are predisposed towards being susceptable to alcoholism. We let alcoholics have state recognized unions practicing or not. If they cause problems for others they are penalized for it by the state.
I've been happily married for over nine years. My wife nor I would feel our church recognized marrige is remotely threatened by a state recognized civil union for gays. To be fair the word marriage shouldn't be used because that's not the right definition, but if they want to have their partnership recognized by the state...why should that bother me or a given religious institution?
Of course gays trying to press a religion to chance its stace is equally silly to me. /shrug
People love drama.
Anonymous | 8:51 a.m. June 23, 2009
Why not ask the church to soften its stance on Incest and Pedifilia also? Maybe
throw in Beastiality too? Just because some choose to do it, no matter how many
or how boldly, doesn't make it normal or right or smart for that matter. To
those who ask the church to change its policy due to the wrong choices and paths
their family members have taken, you must decide where your loyalty and faith
are placed... God-centered or Family-centered?
Anonymous | 8:56 a.m. June 23, 2009
I am the mother of two sons. I have 3 first cousins who are homosexuals and
several friends. Knowing that a son could have homosexual feelings, I've
thought about it a great deal. I knew I would always love any son who was
homosexual, but I would encourage him to follow the Lord's counsel and
marry a woman or be celibate. I've known gay men to do both. It's
not easy, but God has helped them.
As a mother, I feel for those who have sons who have committed suicide. I still feel it is wrong to allow homosexual marriage, for many reasons as others have said. I am not "homophobic". I know that the Lord will hold me accountable for how I treat others.
Consider the plight of a man who has a strong sex drive... he's married and loves his wife. A sexy woman passes by and he finds himself having lustful thoughts. Normal? Yes. Should he abandon his wife and family to pursue the other woman because it's "natural"? Not if he wants God's greatest reward. We are here to overcome the natural man - it will be worth it.
As a mother, I feel for those who have sons who have committed suicide. I still feel it is wrong to allow homosexual marriage, for many reasons as others have said. I am not "homophobic". I know that the Lord will hold me accountable for how I treat others.
Consider the plight of a man who has a strong sex drive... he's married and loves his wife. A sexy woman passes by and he finds himself having lustful thoughts. Normal? Yes. Should he abandon his wife and family to pursue the other woman because it's "natural"? Not if he wants God's greatest reward. We are here to overcome the natural man - it will be worth it.
There is hope | 9:03 a.m. June 23, 2009
The church as an institution has already softened some on the issue. For
example, the BYU Honor Code.
And did the church ever have their promised meeting with Affirmations?
Well, gays can hope. After all, the church steps all over it's own doctrine in embracing illegal aliens.
And did the church ever have their promised meeting with Affirmations?
Well, gays can hope. After all, the church steps all over it's own doctrine in embracing illegal aliens.
An old friend. | 9:06 a.m. June 23, 2009
I had a good friend who was gay. He was also celibate, had a current temple
recommend, and struggled every day with his tendancies. He was one of the
loneliest and most courageous people I have had the priviledge of meeting.
He kept the commandments.
When I died, he had moved away, his brother found our Email exchanges and advised me of his death. I was moved to learn that I had eased his lot in life and I know that his courage will be well received the judgement and he will be healed.
He kept the commandments.
When I died, he had moved away, his brother found our Email exchanges and advised me of his death. I was moved to learn that I had eased his lot in life and I know that his courage will be well received the judgement and he will be healed.
Absolute | 9:10 a.m. June 23, 2009
The Gay support group can protest all it wants. The Church loves the sinner,
but not the sin. It is not within the latitude of the Church to change
God's doctrine. It is an absolute truth established by the Lord. The
doctrine is clear, the Lord created Adam and Eve and stated that a man should
"cleave unto to his wife, and non else." Opinion nor petitions will
and cannot change the doctrine - because it is God's doctrine, not
man's! PETITIONERS SHOULD READ THE SCRIPTURES, IT IS CLEAR WHAT THE LORD
HAS SAID AND WHAT HAPPENED TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH - BECAUSE "THEIR SIN IS
VERY GRIEVIOUS," HE COVERED THE CITIES WITH THE DEAD SEA.
BYU REPORT | 9:16 a.m. June 23, 2009
Everyone seems pretty certain that the Church never changes its stance on
homosexuality. Keep in mind that 100 years ago Church members were
excommunicated just for being gay. Contrast that with the Church's stance
today which is essentially, "leave it to the local leaders" when it
comes to the particulars of homosexuality.
There are bishops that think that any expression of homosexuality is a sin. But others draw the how-far-can-you-go line for gay church members at the same place they do for straight members. That is, while premarital sex of any kind is a sin, dating is not; neither is kissing, holding hands, etc.
Can a gay 17-year-old go on a date tonight and still worthily bless the sacrament on Sunday? It depends on who his bishop is.
There are bishops that think that any expression of homosexuality is a sin. But others draw the how-far-can-you-go line for gay church members at the same place they do for straight members. That is, while premarital sex of any kind is a sin, dating is not; neither is kissing, holding hands, etc.
Can a gay 17-year-old go on a date tonight and still worthily bless the sacrament on Sunday? It depends on who his bishop is.
bigsamoan | 9:19 a.m. June 23, 2009
I have nothing against gay people and the lifestyle they have chosen to live.
I'm all for them receiving the same benefits all married people get and are
entitled to...just don't call their union marriage. I can't stomach 2
men or 2 women choosing to live together and cohabitate and then insist that
society should change to accept their unions and place them on an equal level
with traditional marriage between one man and one women. How stupid is it for
one man to call his partner/spouse his husband or a woman to call her partner
her wife! I saw that on NBC a while ago when Ellen Degenerus's partner was
talking about her and their relationship. And the idea that they can't
help it because God made them that way, Please, is God really that inept that
he couldn't make you normal like the rest of us? Heaven forbid! The truth
is homosexuality is a CHOICE! You chose to be gay. God did not make you gay and
I dread the thought of any of you telling Him to his face that he made you that
way.
waiting ... | 9:20 a.m. June 23, 2009
I'm waiting for tomorrows flip side story ...
"Gays urged to soften LDS Church stance"
... don't hold your breath for this one ...
"Gays urged to soften LDS Church stance"
... don't hold your breath for this one ...
I Have Struggles of My Own | 9:31 a.m. June 23, 2009
If Jesus were here today, walking in our midst, what would He do? For LDS, who
believe the scriptures were inspired by/through Him, we already have the answer.
He would weep with those who struggle, He would put His arms around them and eat
with them, He would befriend them, and perhaps He would heal some of them, and
He would implore them/command them, as He did to the woman in adultery, to go,
and sin no more.
We know the Lord's position on homosexuality. It's clearly laid out in the scriptures, and for those who have made temple covenants, we understand a little of the reasoning behind the doctrine. Modern prophets have reaffirmed the ancient mandate repeatedly.
For those who struggle, know that others struggle with their own burdens too. You are not alone. We love you and want you. But God will not alter His commandments because some struggle in a particular area.
Don't give up. Don't ever give up.
We know the Lord's position on homosexuality. It's clearly laid out in the scriptures, and for those who have made temple covenants, we understand a little of the reasoning behind the doctrine. Modern prophets have reaffirmed the ancient mandate repeatedly.
For those who struggle, know that others struggle with their own burdens too. You are not alone. We love you and want you. But God will not alter His commandments because some struggle in a particular area.
Don't give up. Don't ever give up.
re: John C. | 9:35 a.m. June 23, 2009
"It is just fascinating to me the way people think revelation works. From
the beginning of time God ordained a man and woman as his plan for happiness and
has said through countless prophets that the gay life style is immoral, but now
people think that because they make more noise about it, God will change is
mind."
Well, apparently God changed his mind about polygamy, so maybe homosexuality will be next.
Well, apparently God changed his mind about polygamy, so maybe homosexuality will be next.
A Deist | 9:35 a.m. June 23, 2009
An organized religion be more compassionate & tolerant? Funny stuff that.
@ "LDS Apology" | 9:36 a.m. June 23, 2009
Explain to me how the Church "has blood on its hands" because a
troubled young man decided to take his own life? By the way, homosexuals make
that choice at a rate higher than that of the rest of the population. It is a
dangerous lifestyle and truly carries with it psychological problems. Read the
research. The American Psychological Association still stubbornly will be
politically correct and refuse to call it a psychological problem, but they only
do a disservice to thousands by ignoring so many of their own numbers to do so.
There are many with homosexual tendencies who have been helped to overcome those
temptations - why are mainstream homosexuals unwilling to acknowledge their
existence? Is it fair to ignore and revile those who had the desire to change
and worked hard to do so?
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But I can't forget that my neighbor's grandson committed suicide when the church rejected him for being gay. The church has blood on its hands.