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LDS Church urged to soften gay stance

The referred-to web site LDS apology is excellent, and I hope helps with reconciliation.

But I can't forget that my neighbor's grandson committed suicide when the church rejected him for being gay. The church has blood on its hands.

How many people passed prop 8 and somehow we feel the need to cover an anti- Mormon petition with a purported 162 names on it?

Yawn.

It is just fascinating to me the way people think revelation works. From the beginning of time God ordained a man and woman as his plan for happiness and has said through countless prophets that the gay life style is immoral, but now people think that because they make more noise about it, God will change is mind. Yes we know God destroyed Sodom and Gomorra because of it, were sure Hes had a change of heart by now. Is that what you people really think?
I also love the tactic they use, that if anyone has a different opinion then theirs, then it is a hate issue. Oh Please..
Yes we are members of the LDS church, we are also members of this society and we have the right to voice our opinion on what is best for the society in which we live.

When marriage loses its unique status, women and children most frequently are the direct victims. Giving same-sex relationships or out-of-wedlock heterosexual couples the same special status and benefits as the marital bond would not be the expansion of a right but the destruction of a principle. . If the one-man/one-woman definition of marriage is broken, there is no logical stopping point for continuing the assault on marriage.

If feelings are the key requirement, then why not let three people marry, or two adults and a child, or consenting blood relatives of any age? . Marriage-based kinship is essential to stability and continuity in our state. Child abuse is much more prevalent when a living arrangement is not based on kinship. Kinship imparts family names, heritage, and property, secures the identity and commitment of fathers for the sake of the children, and entails mutual obligations to the community.

The US Supreme Court declared in 1885 that states' marriage laws must be based on "the idea of the family, as consisting in and springing from the union for life of one man and one woman in the holy estate of matrimony; the sure foundation of all that is stable and noble in our civilization, the best guaranty of that reverent morality which is the source of all beneficent progress in social and political improvement.''

Marriage reflects the natural moral and social law evidenced the world over. As the late British social anthropologist Joseph Daniel Unwin noted in his study of world civilizations, any society that devalued the nuclear family soon lost what he called "expansive energy," which might best be summarized as society's will to make things better for the next generation. In fact, no society that has loosened sexual morality outside of man-woman marriage has survived.

Analyzing studies of cultures spanning several thousands of years on several continents, Harvard sociologist Pitirim Sorokin found that virtually all political revolutions that brought about societal collapse were preceded by a sexual revolution in which marriage and family were devalued by the cultures acceptance of homosexuality.

Why should the church soften it's stance against gay unions, after all the work it's done over the years to promote the sanctity of marriage and the family?
Those in this group that are Lds should follow the directions of their leaders and quit fighting against them, the real issue is not tolerance it's morality, if you cannot grasp this concept maybe you can't grasp the rest of the church's concepts either.

Sure the LDS church opposes gay activities. They do so because these activities are wrong. No amount of verbage will change that. No amount of protest will change church policy against it. Get over it.

LDS apology, the church does not have blood on it's hand. Just like being gay is able to not let you be a member in the church, so are blood transfusions for the Jehovah's witnesses, baptism of babies in the catholic church. each church has a set of requirements, and if you don't make them, then you can't become a member. I feel bad for the boy who killed himself, but that was not the churches fault. He knew the rules of the church, and didn't want to change. This is the belief of the church, so I don't see them softening on this one.

The church has always been against homosexuality, and will forever. You're not going to change their mind.

Homosexuals have a higher rate of suicide and mental illness in ALL countries, even in the Netherlands which might be the most gay-friendly nation on the planet.

Perhaps it is you who should apologize.

As for the site, it is full of inaccuracies, including the suicide information above. It should be noted that the Utah suicide rate is actually on the LOW side for the intermountain west. Look it up.

It also perpetuates the myth that same-sex attraction is inborn and unchangeable. Science begs to differ with the first assertion, and my own experience shows that a normal heterosexual life can be had even if one self-identifies as gay earlier in life.

While same-sex attraction is not chosen, to pursue the associated lifestyle definitely is a choice.

All people can do a better job of nurturing their neighbors who are attracted to the same sex, no doubt. It is an important part of the therapy process. However, if petitions like this are to attain any credibility, they should first expunge their dishonest and false claims.

One of the primary differences between the LDS church and other Christian denominations is that we believe doctrine comes from God through the prophet. Changes to doctrine do not come from the "grass roots".

We believe that we are each entitled to revelation and inspiration from God relating to our spheres of responsibility. I am responsible for my family, so I am entitled to revelation to guide my family. I don't have responsibility for my ward, so I can't walk up to the bishop and say "you're doing thus and such wrong, I had a revelation and it should be done this way."

By the same token, a group of people who disagree with church teachings and policy don't have the responsibility or authority to tell the brethren in Salt Lake that they have it wrong.

I don't pretend to understand all the issues faced by homosexuals, but I do not believe that this or any other petition is going to open the door to full fellowship in the LDS church for them. Nor do I believe it should.

Church doctrine doesn't change just because a group who doesn't like it and doesn't want to abide by it starts a petition. Neither does upholding Church doctrine equal hatemongering. Yes, it really is that simple. One man + one woman = marriage. It's always been that way and always will be.

1) You can be a LDS church member and still "think" you are gay.
2) The LDS stand on homosexuality is abundantly clear. One thing about the LDS church is it does not waffle on it's beliefs.
3) You might as well try to swim up Niagra Falls if try and change the Church regarding this.

People think they know more than the lord on that matter. As Ezra TAft Benson said pride is not concerned with what is right but who is right.

Every time I hear gays whining about the Church's stand on their "lifestyle," as a recovering alcoholic, I have to laugh. How many alcoholics are there in the Church? Should the Church soften it's stand on the Word of Wisdom and allow "practicing" alcoholics to, say, hold leadership positions? Attend the Temple? Teach Primary?

No. A "practicing" alcoholic must cease "practicing" (drinking) before holding leadership positions or going to the Temple. Nobody questions that -- you would be laughed at for trying.

Alcoholics have to stop drinking alcohol, and start drinking kool-aid. It took me over 20 years of being on my toes before I actually had a taste for non-alcoholic drinks. Now, after 33 years of sobriety, I am still not "completely safe," but am much better.

Ditto with the gays. You can be a gay member of the Church, just like I am an alcoholic member of the Church. We just cannot "practice" our respective physical challenges. And, yes, you might spend decades living with your challenge before you overcome it.

That's not hate; that's not uncaring: It is the actual and real Plan of Salvation and Atonement in action.

And please stop telling us that being married as a gay person is a civil right. You can't choose to be white/black but you sure can choose to be gay. Like any other behavior defect in man, being gay can't simply be accepted and demand rights based on their behavior. Should the government treat all behavior abnormalities as civil rights too?

Humans that have a healthly mental state don't define themselves based on their sexual orientation. No need to announce to the world that we are not gay. No one cares. Marriage was ordained for the bearing and rearing of children. That's a responsibility and ability that God didn't give to gay people.

Read the Bible. 2 Timothy Chapter 3. Stop wanting the LDS church to condone your immoral behavior. You do have the right to choose what you do with your life, but don't expect and even demand the LDS church or anyone else to agree with you or support your immoral actions. For the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance. Now, with that said, should you wish to repent and come unto Christ, I believe that the LDS church or any other church would welcome you with open arms as I believe there is much good that is and can be done by those who are gay and lesbian. I wish the energy and efforts and money that have been and will be used to perpetuate the gay and lesbian causes could be used to do good in the world for others.

The Church cannot change it's stance on this because it is the NOT the Church's place to do so.
God the Father and his Son head up the church and the leaders here are only his spokesmen. We do what we are told to do, by a loving and wise Father who knows what is best for us.
Those people who keep trying to change the Lord's mind are like little children whinning because their parent won't let them do something that they cannot see to be dangerous or wrong.

Very well put. Thank you for sharing your experience.