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Budgets: a balance game
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They love it? | 7:10 a.m. May 10, 2009
Since when do students at UVU "love athletics" like Jacobsen says?
We're lucky to get 200 students to a home basketball game! That's
really lovin' it, eh?!?!
AggieFan74 | 9:09 a.m. May 10, 2009
Any notion that BYU is in "same" position as other Utah schools in
regard to making significant cut backs to fund althletic programs is a complete
joke and misrepresentation by BYU administrators. For once let's be totally
honest and stop all the BYU misinformation campaign. As is obviously the case,
BYU is funded by the LDS Church who, most likely, has enough cash and other
financial assessts to bankroll several NFL teams (maybe the entire league-who
knows). Whats more, the BYU program is "indirectly" funded by
"donations" from students, employees and alumni from all the other
Utah colleges and universities. I believe it's a safe bet that BYU will
take advantage of the hard times at other rival schools and actually increase
funding for recruiting, facilities, and coaching salaries. This is one Aggie
fan who would like to see BYU dropped from both the basketball and football
schedules. There is no up-side to trying to compete with an in-state school who
can out-spend the Aggies a 100 to 1 on their athletic programs. The Aggies will
continue to lose and put up with a lot of foul trash talk from BYU types.
Comments continue below
Mike Johnson Fallon NV | 9:46 a.m. May 10, 2009
UVU averaged 2089 fans per game this past year. Still below most Division I
schools, but it has been increasing.
usu athletics | 10:40 a.m. May 10, 2009
the few fans that show up do a good job. But not one sport (including
basketball) is worth all the fuss up there.
Howard S. | 10:41 a.m. May 10, 2009
How much of BYU's surplus is related to their portion of Utah's Sugar
bowl payout?
womens sports=debts | 10:44 a.m. May 10, 2009
It's due to having to equalize everything. Equal amount of sports, but the
problem with that is womens sports doesn't bring anything in AT ALL.
Getting rid of women sports or not having title 9 would not only save money for
schools, but they'd make money.
Mr. Aggie fan is hilarious | 11:49 a.m. May 10, 2009
Maybe the reason BYU was in the black was because they actually sell out their
football stadium. Also, they sell out 3-4 games in men's basketball a
year, plus men's volleyball, women's soccer, are always well attended.
I bet there are more people that attend a BYU women's soccer game than
your pathetic football team.
I feel bad for the Utah team. They earn the BCS payout but have to split it between all non-BCS teams. They spent well over a million dollars just traveling to New Orleans. They deserved to keep a majority of the payout.
I feel bad for the Utah team. They earn the BCS payout but have to split it between all non-BCS teams. They spent well over a million dollars just traveling to New Orleans. They deserved to keep a majority of the payout.
Aggie Fan, thanks for the laugh | 12:06 p.m. May 10, 2009
So you're blaming USU's mediocrity on the LDS Church
"bankrolling" their athletics. How about you attend a BYU volleyball
game and observe the turnout, so you can get a good look at who's doing the
bankrolling.
But yeah, I can't blame you for not wanting the embarassment of having to get blown out by them once a year.
But yeah, I can't blame you for not wanting the embarassment of having to get blown out by them once a year.
WhoAmISir | 12:12 p.m. May 10, 2009
Something to think about. The MWC is pushing to get parity from the BcS. It
would be interesting to see the discrepancies between the AQ Haves and the
Non-AQ Have-Nots. Sounds like a golden opportunity to show Congress and Senate,
along with the rest of the country, the economic and monopolistic impact of the
BcS and why there needs to be a revamping of the system for D1 college football.
Take a read on the story in the other paper today - marketplace - RIGHT.
Uncle George | 12:49 p.m. May 10, 2009
Aggie Fan 74 needs to get a grip on reality. With his logic, you could say that
the LDS church funds most of USU budget because 70% of Utahs taxpayers are
Mormons.
AggieFan74 | 4:05 p.m. May 10, 2009
Regarding all you BYU Fans: Wake up and Smell the coffee (oh that's right-I
mean smell the diet coke)! Lets see, because you sell out the 65,000 seat Lavell
Edwards Stadium and 23,000 seat Marriott Center you're saying that pays all
the bills-huh!!!! The average cost to finance a Division I college athletic
program in 2008 was $45.0 million. Because BYU is far superior to other programs
and is in the very upper echelon of the entire college sports scene, my guess is
that BYU spends somewhere in the neighborhood of $65.0 to $75.0 million to
maintain all althletic programs and related facilities. Do the math (and assume
a third of all attendence are students) and you will soon find out that an
"average" football and/or basketball ticket needs to be in the $200
per game range to pay the bills. This number does not include payment on any
construction debt for the on-campus NFL and NBA sized facilities. Yea!! I can
see how attendance pays for athletics at BYU-HA! HA! HA! Hey Uncle George, go
the closest Utah County Library and look up "taxes" versus
"donations."
Must remain anonymous | 4:39 p.m. May 10, 2009
BYU doesn't use one penny of LDS Church support for it's athletic
programs. Even its athletic facilities are build using funds from wealthy
individuals (Why do you think it's called the MARRIOTT center)?
The BYU athletic program is required by the University to operate without using any tithing funds.
All you critics who spout off about BYU having an edge because of the Church's deep pockets are ignorant of the facts.
Like has been said before on these posts, too many people confuse their misinformed ideas for facts.
The BYU athletic program is required by the University to operate without using any tithing funds.
All you critics who spout off about BYU having an edge because of the Church's deep pockets are ignorant of the facts.
Like has been said before on these posts, too many people confuse their misinformed ideas for facts.
Henry Drummond | 4:42 p.m. May 10, 2009
First of all I wish to thank Mike Sorensen for a well researched article. This
is probably the best exposition of the finances of college sports I have
seen.
We usually hear that athletic programs are self-supporting. That "self-support" comes at a cost though. I remember well when BYU expanded its stadium. People in the Development Office told me it almost completely dried up donations for anything else at BYU. Its very difficult to get donations for other worthwhile academic programs when they have to compete with an athletic program that frankly gives them more free advertising than the cancer research center can.
We usually hear that athletic programs are self-supporting. That "self-support" comes at a cost though. I remember well when BYU expanded its stadium. People in the Development Office told me it almost completely dried up donations for anything else at BYU. Its very difficult to get donations for other worthwhile academic programs when they have to compete with an athletic program that frankly gives them more free advertising than the cancer research center can.
Food for thought | 4:47 p.m. May 10, 2009
If BYU doesn't use any church funds to operate its athletic department, but
must rely on "donations" from individuals, TV rights fees and gate
receipts, etc. What does it tell you about the quality of a BYU education if
their alumnni can make such large donations to the BYU sports programs while USU
and U of U graduates can't (or won't) make the donations?
I guess Mr. Gomm was right. If the UofU guys are pumping the gas for the BYU graduates, it's no wonder the U of U doesn't get enough donations to make its athletic department whole.
If USU is $1 million in the red, the quality of education there must be even worse.
It's the law of the harvest folks. It's just applied in a very practical way.
I guess Mr. Gomm was right. If the UofU guys are pumping the gas for the BYU graduates, it's no wonder the U of U doesn't get enough donations to make its athletic department whole.
If USU is $1 million in the red, the quality of education there must be even worse.
It's the law of the harvest folks. It's just applied in a very practical way.
MTN | 5:01 p.m. May 10, 2009
Surely BYU and Utah are in better shape because of their wonderful TV package
with the Mtn.
RE: AggieFan74 | 6:00 p.m. May 10, 2009
You need to quit making assumptions about a program you obviously know nothing
about. Not one penny of church funds goes into the athletic program at BYU. I
you ever want to be educated on the matter, take a short trip to Legacy Hall and
look at the list of donors on the wall outside of the football offices. I donate
a lot of money to the program, and I know for a fact that I am a very small fish
compared to some many who donate. Why do you think we expect success from the
program? And why do you think that the stadium is always sold out. Cougar fans
are very passionate about their sports, always, and not just one sport, or once
every 4 years.
Ben H, | 6:25 p.m. May 10, 2009
Dear AggieFan74,
FYI, no tithing funds are used to finance the athletic programs at BYU as you imply.
FYI, no tithing funds are used to finance the athletic programs at BYU as you imply.
Dallas Aggie | 7:57 p.m. May 10, 2009
I am grateful that all of our schools have athletic programs. As far as BYU and
funding goes, I think the best method to avoid contention is just let each take
care of their own business. I am glad that we Aggies are improving our funding
abilities. We definitely are improving and I look forward to a great football
season this year. Go Aggies!
Idahoan | 10:24 p.m. May 10, 2009
The BCS games bring in so much money for those conferences with the automatic
qualification. Yet schools in these conferences are struggling with athletic
budgets. There's something wrong with this picture. Maybe coaches'
salaries are too high? Maybe schools and conferences are trying to keep up with
and get ahead of each other?
I feel for the schools like BYU, Utah, Utah State, etc. I don't think they are the ones trying to be so extravagant. I have little pity for the schools from BCS conferences that have huge deficits in huge budgets. I think they got hooked on the BCS money and wanted more, so they upgraded and spent lavishly. Also, the huge payouts that BCS schools give FCS and non-BCS schools has to be hurting. Maybe they should quit paying other teams just so they can destroy them. Maybe other teams should stop accepting the payouts also. And quit making coaches millionaires!
I feel for the schools like BYU, Utah, Utah State, etc. I don't think they are the ones trying to be so extravagant. I have little pity for the schools from BCS conferences that have huge deficits in huge budgets. I think they got hooked on the BCS money and wanted more, so they upgraded and spent lavishly. Also, the huge payouts that BCS schools give FCS and non-BCS schools has to be hurting. Maybe they should quit paying other teams just so they can destroy them. Maybe other teams should stop accepting the payouts also. And quit making coaches millionaires!
BCS | 8:05 a.m. May 11, 2009
What a shame that Utah has to redistribute so much of its BCS game money with
the lowly members of the MWC, and other non-BCS conferences, who can't man
up and get into a game themselves. Seeing that the athletic department will be
short next year, and then seeing a huge percentage of the BCS money going
elsewhere, is a big kick in the gut.
Especially when BYU is doing just fine financially. Maybe they should rename the part of LES that is being renovated after Kyle since it's his efforts to lead his team to fulfill their "Quest" that are allowing other programs to share the BCS pool.
Sad that Bronco is rewarding with BCS money after he talked all last summer about being "Perfect" only to watch Kyle and the Utes put their money in Bronco's mouth.
Especially when BYU is doing just fine financially. Maybe they should rename the part of LES that is being renovated after Kyle since it's his efforts to lead his team to fulfill their "Quest" that are allowing other programs to share the BCS pool.
Sad that Bronco is rewarding with BCS money after he talked all last summer about being "Perfect" only to watch Kyle and the Utes put their money in Bronco's mouth.
Re:BCS | 9:45 a.m. May 11, 2009
Now you know how BYU felt all those years they were going to bowl games and
sharing their money with Utah while Utah stayed home and still collected a
paycheck. We also know that most of the TV money that has come into the
conference over the years has been because of BYU and their national audience.
RE: Remain Anonymous | 10:07 a.m. May 11, 2009
Wow!! Not one penny eh!! You sound very authoritative and have gone out of your
way to put your name and reputation where your mouth is!! You must work at the
Salt Lake City Home Office. I don't blame you, I would hide too!! Let see,
the Marriott Center was named after the Marriott Family who bank rolled the
entire facility. So how did Lavell Edwards bank roll the $50 to $70 mil football
stadium-following your logic of course. BYU allumni must be the wealthest bunch
of college graduates on the plannet. The majority of the 117 Division 1
schools(with the exception of the BCS Schools) are having to cut athletic
programs that BYU somehow funds and remains in the black. Anyone can get the
financial records of the athletic departments of any of the Utah based colleges
except BYU. Thank God we have all you anonymous sources to clear the air!! I
don't mind a private school spending big money to promote the cause but at
least be honest about what is going on!!!
@10:07 | 10:25 a.m. May 11, 2009
I don't see you stating your name or sources. Where do you get all your
information that tithing money is used to fund athletics at BYU? If your so
interested in who donates to BYU, why don't you go to campus and be
educated on the matter. Their donors names are proudly displayed on a wall at
Legacy Hall. And a lot of them are not graduates of BYU, but rather members of
the church that owns and operates BYU. So I'm curious, who made you the
whistle blower for how tithing funds are used anyway?
Farm System | 10:28 a.m. May 11, 2009
I think the NFL should start contributing to college football in a big way. I
think it is ridiculous that we use our education system as the feeder system for
professional sports in this country. We are subsidizing the development of
professional athletes using our publicly funded high schools and universities.
I love college sports, but if the NBA and NFL want to use our colleges as their
farm leagues, they need to start paying for them.
BYU's BCS payout | 11:08 a.m. May 11, 2009
thanks to Utah, BYU got a small slice of the BCS pie. That's true.
However, BYU is smarter than Utah. They went out and got a guaranteed BCS game to start the '09 season with Oklahoma. Utah's share of that BCS-quality payout? Zilch. LOL
However, BYU is smarter than Utah. They went out and got a guaranteed BCS game to start the '09 season with Oklahoma. Utah's share of that BCS-quality payout? Zilch. LOL
Knowwhat | 11:11 a.m. May 11, 2009
Aggiefan74, that big blue education didn't help your reading skills. I
think the article stated BYU's athletic budget was $30 million, that is way
below your average DI $45 million you used for your remedial math and budget
theory.
Re: Farm System | 11:15 a.m. May 11, 2009
That's actually a fairly good point. Nevertheless, neither the American
Instititute of Certified Public Accountants (AICPA), nor any of my employers
since graduation, have contributed to my alma mater, from which they have been
using as a "Farm System" for qualified applicants and employees in the
Financial markets.
WA Coug | 11:46 a.m. May 11, 2009
Cut teams! Who needs a sand volleyball team anyway?!? (I know Utah schools
don't have sand volleyball)
re: BYU's BCS Payout | 12:43 p.m. May 11, 2009
Yes, they are much "smarter." They are playing the role typically
left to teams like Utah State. Agree to play a team who needs a cupcake on the
schedule, and take a huge pay day so the home team can give their fans a good
showing, and a lot of points.
I think Utah will take earning its BCS money as they have done twice, while the Cougars will either sit back and wait for Utah to drop some scraps from the table, or go play Oklahoma and take $3 million to be a punching bag for 3 hours.
Your "Smarter" obviously doesn't involve any sense of INTEGRITY. Keep begging at the table and Kyle might throw you something again soon.
I think Utah will take earning its BCS money as they have done twice, while the Cougars will either sit back and wait for Utah to drop some scraps from the table, or go play Oklahoma and take $3 million to be a punching bag for 3 hours.
Your "Smarter" obviously doesn't involve any sense of INTEGRITY. Keep begging at the table and Kyle might throw you something again soon.
Mark | 2:28 p.m. May 11, 2009
Did a Ute fan really just call someone else out for not having integrity? Ha ha
ha!
Max Drax | 2:49 p.m. May 11, 2009
Or, to state it more accurately, BYU is a very good, very well-respected
program. Its tradition, fan base, and brand power enabled it to get invited to
open the season against the nation's (likely) #1 team in the very first
game ever played in the nicest football stadium in America.
No disrespect to Utah State, but you think they wanted the Aggies (or a team at that level) at that game? Not a chance.
The organizers of that game wanted a team with a lot of national respect, and a team with great nationwide support.
That the team they chose is also the one whose athletic department is in the best shape right now is no pure coincidence.
No disrespect to Utah State, but you think they wanted the Aggies (or a team at that level) at that game? Not a chance.
The organizers of that game wanted a team with a lot of national respect, and a team with great nationwide support.
That the team they chose is also the one whose athletic department is in the best shape right now is no pure coincidence.
That aggie fan | 3:38 p.m. May 11, 2009
is pretty pathetic at his attempts to bash, trying to be clever in bringing
football and religion into view. Looks like the Aggie Constitution is engraved
in your brain pretty well: "I solemnly promise to hate BYU in every form by
the time I leave this noble and prestigious university."
If tithing pays for athletics as you say, then thanks for your donations every time you get paid! Helps keep BYU in business!!
If tithing pays for athletics as you say, then thanks for your donations every time you get paid! Helps keep BYU in business!!
Re: Max Drax | 3:42 p.m. May 11, 2009
I actually thought you had a great post until I read the last line. Do you think
that the organizers of the game thought, "oh hey, BYU has an impressive
balanced budget, let's invite them"?
Re: Mark and 12:43 BCS payout, everyone knows that BYU has the corner on the market of people with integrity. The suggestion that anyone in the school does not have it is absurd. Also, the suggestion that anyone outside of BYU has integrity is equally insulting.
I can honestly say that I hope BYU wins this game. Good luck. It will be tough, but I think you will actually have a better team this year than last (the line will be worse, but if Max spreads the ball around, things could go well). If Max can get over the shell shock of last season and not get into a first quarter hole, their is a chance (albeit small) that BYU could surprise.
Re: Mark and 12:43 BCS payout, everyone knows that BYU has the corner on the market of people with integrity. The suggestion that anyone in the school does not have it is absurd. Also, the suggestion that anyone outside of BYU has integrity is equally insulting.
I can honestly say that I hope BYU wins this game. Good luck. It will be tough, but I think you will actually have a better team this year than last (the line will be worse, but if Max spreads the ball around, things could go well). If Max can get over the shell shock of last season and not get into a first quarter hole, their is a chance (albeit small) that BYU could surprise.
National Respect???? | 3:50 p.m. May 11, 2009
Really. Losers of the Vegas Bowl? Third place in the MWC? Can't hang
athletically with the best teams, in their own conference?
You were invited because:
1) You had an opening.
2) You might draw a few LDS members from the Dallas area.
3) Granted you're not Utah State, but you're also not a team that posses any threat to Oklahoma. You are a homecoming opponent.
4) You will hurt much of the credibility that Utah and TCU established last season by winning big bowl games versus national opponents, which the BCS conferences love.
5) Oklahoma needs a respectible opponent to destroy to start their bid for a repeat Heisman Trophey, and a National Championship.
With the money Utah has redistributed to BYU with two BCS bowl appearances, your athletic department should be doing well financially. Not to mention getting paid $3 million to help the Sooners feel better about themselves after losing in January.
You were invited because:
1) You had an opening.
2) You might draw a few LDS members from the Dallas area.
3) Granted you're not Utah State, but you're also not a team that posses any threat to Oklahoma. You are a homecoming opponent.
4) You will hurt much of the credibility that Utah and TCU established last season by winning big bowl games versus national opponents, which the BCS conferences love.
5) Oklahoma needs a respectible opponent to destroy to start their bid for a repeat Heisman Trophey, and a National Championship.
With the money Utah has redistributed to BYU with two BCS bowl appearances, your athletic department should be doing well financially. Not to mention getting paid $3 million to help the Sooners feel better about themselves after losing in January.
Aggie graduate | 10:09 a.m. May 12, 2009
I am an Aggie graduate, a return missionary, an active member of the church. I
stopped paying my tithing for a brief period and donated that money to USU
instead. They need it more. It felt good for a few months but now I could not
justify continuing to pay all of my tithe to USU and am back to full tithe
status to the church now. I figure that my few months of donating to USU
instead of the church would make up for the small percentage of my lifetime
tithes that would have gone and will be going to BYU. I am opposed to funding
that institution in any way. I have nothing against anyone who chooses to go
there; great for them but not for me or my family. We are Aggies.
Christian not Cougar | 10:25 a.m. May 12, 2009
Attitudes and comments such as those presented by Cougars on this message board
are the reason that BYU is the #1 hated college sports franchise in America.
I'm an active member of the LDS faith, but I didn't go to school in Utah. And honestly, I don't get it. We talk of Christ, we preach of Christ, and we worship Christ. And then we turn around and slam state instutions and their supporters because they are dealing with a budget crisis? We demean the quality of their education? We provide a flawed analogy to the Law of the Harvest? I guess I just thought that we were supposed to be better than all of that.
State institutions are struggling across the board, not just in their athletic programs and not just in Utah.
BYU has the unique luxury of being funded by LDS church. Roughly $15K/year of the cost of education for each BYU student is funded by the LDS church. This includes student athletes. At least be gracious about it.
BYU has the unique responsibility of representing all LDS people. I would prefer that my donations and my faith be represented with more dignity.
I'm an active member of the LDS faith, but I didn't go to school in Utah. And honestly, I don't get it. We talk of Christ, we preach of Christ, and we worship Christ. And then we turn around and slam state instutions and their supporters because they are dealing with a budget crisis? We demean the quality of their education? We provide a flawed analogy to the Law of the Harvest? I guess I just thought that we were supposed to be better than all of that.
State institutions are struggling across the board, not just in their athletic programs and not just in Utah.
BYU has the unique luxury of being funded by LDS church. Roughly $15K/year of the cost of education for each BYU student is funded by the LDS church. This includes student athletes. At least be gracious about it.
BYU has the unique responsibility of representing all LDS people. I would prefer that my donations and my faith be represented with more dignity.
Non-Cougar Christian | 3:17 p.m. May 12, 2009
For a non-Cougar Christian you seem pretty preoccupied with where to allocate
your hatred.
Christian not Cougar | 4:47 p.m. May 12, 2009
I don't have hatred toward anyone. I am made uneasy by BYU fans when they
exhibit poor behavior over sports related issues or talk about BYU sports and
money in the same sentence.
Yes. I do hold them to a higher standard. I do so because they indirectly represent me and things that are very important to me, even though I didn't attend BYU.
If Cougar fan insists on bragging about the financial status of their Athletic Department or talking down state institutions, or belittling people on a message board, he should not be surprised when people are not open to learning more about the faith and good works of the LDS people.
That is the real Law of the Harvest.
Yes. I do hold them to a higher standard. I do so because they indirectly represent me and things that are very important to me, even though I didn't attend BYU.
If Cougar fan insists on bragging about the financial status of their Athletic Department or talking down state institutions, or belittling people on a message board, he should not be surprised when people are not open to learning more about the faith and good works of the LDS people.
That is the real Law of the Harvest.
Dallas Aggie | 7:34 p.m. May 12, 2009
Have to agree that BYU should exhibit the best sportsmanship in the country
because of who they represent....The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day
Saints. Oh well, I am sure the Prophet knows what is best for BYU and their
athletic department. I just hope that the BYU fans can be gracious of how much
support comes from so many non BYU members of the Church. Good luck against OU
in DFW this September.
re: Christian not Cougar | 1:50 p.m. May 13, 2009
"Attitudes and comments such as those presented by Cougars on this message
board are the reason that BYU is the #1 hated college sports franchise in
America."
And your source for this "fact" is....? Yep, thought so. There isn't a source for it and it isn't a fact.
The other problem with your comment is the assumption all Cougar fans need to basically be perfect ("We talk of Christ, we preach of Christ, etc.). Here's a little "fact" that may shock you: Not all Cougar fans are members of the LDS or any other Church. So do you know that all the "bad" comments are from LDS members?
And finally, you're reading sports trash talk between fans. It's more like recreational fun than anything. So excuse us for not being perfect. Even Joseph Smith Jr had a little fun with trash talking. Or are you not familiar with the story of when a scruffy looking Porter Rockwell showed up unexpectadley at a gathering and Joseph, before seeing who it was, hollered "Throw the drunken Missourian out!" Even he had a little bias in him.
And your source for this "fact" is....? Yep, thought so. There isn't a source for it and it isn't a fact.
The other problem with your comment is the assumption all Cougar fans need to basically be perfect ("We talk of Christ, we preach of Christ, etc.). Here's a little "fact" that may shock you: Not all Cougar fans are members of the LDS or any other Church. So do you know that all the "bad" comments are from LDS members?
And finally, you're reading sports trash talk between fans. It's more like recreational fun than anything. So excuse us for not being perfect. Even Joseph Smith Jr had a little fun with trash talking. Or are you not familiar with the story of when a scruffy looking Porter Rockwell showed up unexpectadley at a gathering and Joseph, before seeing who it was, hollered "Throw the drunken Missourian out!" Even he had a little bias in him.
Christian not Cougar | 9:49 a.m. May 14, 2009
1. BYU owns the distinction of being proclaimed the #1 hated college sports
franchise by Sports Illustrated. I don't necessarily agree with that, but
I can understand some of why they were crowned with that honor.
2. Cougars fans don't need to be anything. They can choose to be whatever they want. However, it is a fact that BYU and their athletic teams are sponsored by the LDS church and they are inextricably tied to the LDS church. BYU team and fan behavior does end up reflecting on the LDS church, even if every one of the BYU fans on this site are non-LDS and have never stepped foot in an LDS chapel or on the BYU campus.
3. I'm all for fun banter between sports fans. However, when the focus of the trash talk centers around "I'm better financed than you", it makes me wonder if we are embodying the hope and dreams of so many thousands like my great great grandfather who sacrificed every worldly possession he had to join the LDS church and move to Utah. Perhaps I should take their sacrifices a little more lightly.
2. Cougars fans don't need to be anything. They can choose to be whatever they want. However, it is a fact that BYU and their athletic teams are sponsored by the LDS church and they are inextricably tied to the LDS church. BYU team and fan behavior does end up reflecting on the LDS church, even if every one of the BYU fans on this site are non-LDS and have never stepped foot in an LDS chapel or on the BYU campus.
3. I'm all for fun banter between sports fans. However, when the focus of the trash talk centers around "I'm better financed than you", it makes me wonder if we are embodying the hope and dreams of so many thousands like my great great grandfather who sacrificed every worldly possession he had to join the LDS church and move to Utah. Perhaps I should take their sacrifices a little more lightly.
Tom Hatch | 4:17 p.m. May 14, 2009
Very much enjoyed your story on the collegiate athletic budgets. Very
informative and filled a wonderful need. I'd like to suggest two other
stories, one a major project like this one and the other requiring a Google
search and a phone call or two.
The project is sports archives. What do athletic departments save, how far back do their archives go, what kind of records are saved (boxscores, play-by-plays, photography, releases, filmings and DVDs, and, well, you get the idea)? How available is this information to the public, parents, families, the media, etc? I think this is a story trivia lovers would love. For example, if Shawnee Slade's mom wanted end-of game stats and DVDs on each BYU women's game in which Shawnee played, could she get them?
The other is an update on ex-Ute women's star Leilani Mitchell, who had a decent season with the New York Liberty and played last winter in France. Google has lots of stuff on her, but will she be back with the Liberty for the coming season? I think there was lots of interest in her.
Keep the good work.
Thanks.
The project is sports archives. What do athletic departments save, how far back do their archives go, what kind of records are saved (boxscores, play-by-plays, photography, releases, filmings and DVDs, and, well, you get the idea)? How available is this information to the public, parents, families, the media, etc? I think this is a story trivia lovers would love. For example, if Shawnee Slade's mom wanted end-of game stats and DVDs on each BYU women's game in which Shawnee played, could she get them?
The other is an update on ex-Ute women's star Leilani Mitchell, who had a decent season with the New York Liberty and played last winter in France. Google has lots of stuff on her, but will she be back with the Liberty for the coming season? I think there was lots of interest in her.
Keep the good work.
Thanks.
Tithing goes to Athletics | 4:56 p.m. May 14, 2009
1. Tuition at BYU is subsidized by tithing
2. Athletic tuition is also subsidized by tithing
3. Tithing goes towards athletics
Bottom line is that the UofU and USU athletic departments are paying FULL PRICE for their student athletes to attend school. The BYU student athletes scholarships are being subsidized by tithing. Although the mormon church is not lying about tithing money not going directly to the athletic department, they are saving the athletic department money by paying for scholarships directly to the university.
All BYU is doing is finding loopholes to get tithing money into the athletic department without being held accountable for it.
2. Athletic tuition is also subsidized by tithing
3. Tithing goes towards athletics
Bottom line is that the UofU and USU athletic departments are paying FULL PRICE for their student athletes to attend school. The BYU student athletes scholarships are being subsidized by tithing. Although the mormon church is not lying about tithing money not going directly to the athletic department, they are saving the athletic department money by paying for scholarships directly to the university.
All BYU is doing is finding loopholes to get tithing money into the athletic department without being held accountable for it.
@aggiefan74 | 12:45 p.m. May 18, 2009
Delusional, paranoid, misinformed - typical traits of the sad aggie mindset. Get
out of the battle of wits. You are half armed at best.
AggieFan74 | 6:16 p.m. May 18, 2009
OK I have read all the Blogs regarding the funding of BYU athletics. RE:
@aggiefan74: Yea you're probably right, and you're not the first to
call this long time Aggie delusional, paranoid and misinformed. Help me out
here: just exactly where does all the money come from that funds the LDS Church
which, to the best of my dim-wit Aggie mindset, leads me to make the reasonable
assumtion that it's tithing. For anyone to say that tithing does not go to
BYU athletics is ridiculous and completely disingenuous. Yea- maybe tithing
does not go directly to BYU athletics but indirectly there is no argument. FYI:
I am LDS and I have had this conversation with relatively high ranking members
and no one I have talked with face-to-face denies that tithing is the conrner
stone of church financing including the financing of BYU. Look-I do not
necessarily hate BYU as a religious instition. What I hate is the arrogance of
BYU administrators and fans who think the university is above other state
schools by talking trash non-stop. Show more class-like it or not, Aggies, Utes,
Wildcats, etc, help fund your university.
Dallas Aggie | 7:34 p.m. May 18, 2009
I have to agree that without tithing there would be no BYU, and thus there would
not be an athletic program at BYU. It is fairly simple logic. In the end who
cares? I love the Aggies and most BYU alum (not all) love their cougar sports.
I am a member of the Church and hope that BYU represents the Church
exceptionally well in every game they play even against the Aggies, except that
I definitely will be cheering the Aggies onto victory and not the cougars in
those head to head events. I can't wait for football to start! Go Aggies!
AggieFan74 | 9:03 a.m. May 19, 2009
Hey "Dallas Aggie"- Who cares?? There aren't enough words to
adequately address your "who cares" attitude in this blog!! Suffice it
to say that BYU has "quietly" and "reverently" undermined
Aggie athletics for years. Briefly, BYU campaigned to keep USU out of the WAC
when the league expanded to a "so called" super conference. BYU has
gone after Aggie athletes during the time they are supposed to be on LDS
missions. etc, etc, etc. The fact of the matter is that BYU could not care less
about showing any level of respect for USU athletics or as an academic
institution. BYU athletic administrators (behind closed doors) see USU as a
cheap win in football and basketball. BYU fans waste no time with trash talking
USU into oblivion. And it's not going to get any better. The LDS church
will continue to pump big money into BYU athletics because it's a "so
called" missionary tool. USU just does not have the money to compete with
private institions with deep pockets. It's time to get real!! USU needs to
drop BYU from their football and basketball schedules and focus on being a
competitive WAC program!
Christian not Cougar | 9:17 a.m. May 20, 2009
C'mon now. Let's not get too sideways about all of this. The USU-BYU
games benefit both schools and the State of Utah. If the Aggies could have been
more competitive in FB over the past 30 years they would have helped how they
are perceived by BYU.
It is what it is. BYU looks down on USU, partially because the series has not been very competitive for a long time. The only way to change that is to dig out. Become more competitive and make the games fun and well-contested. I hope Utah State finally has administration and a coaching staff that will make that happen.
In any negotiation, you always have a walk-away point and if BYU won't schedule and play on a level basis, then fine...walk away. But don't walk away just because BYU likes to be the big fish. That isn't anything new and it's not going to change.
It is what it is. BYU looks down on USU, partially because the series has not been very competitive for a long time. The only way to change that is to dig out. Become more competitive and make the games fun and well-contested. I hope Utah State finally has administration and a coaching staff that will make that happen.
In any negotiation, you always have a walk-away point and if BYU won't schedule and play on a level basis, then fine...walk away. But don't walk away just because BYU likes to be the big fish. That isn't anything new and it's not going to change.
Dallas Aggie re: AggieFan74 | 12:29 p.m. May 20, 2009
Hey bud - Simmer down. I agree that there have been efforts on both the parts U
of U and BYU to undermine our programs at USU (academically and athletically).
I just choose to ignore them, as I can't make any difference in those
realms. I would rather not be bitter and angry. It has taken me a long time to
get over it and just be a loyal and ardent Aggie fan, without raising my blood
pressure when discussing the inequalities of our state and private institutions.
But I must admit that we need those games with U of U and BYU at home to boost
our attendance records. All in all, we are definitely on the short end of the
stick, which makes it that much more fun everytime we beat them. Enjoy the ride
and cheer up. Our aggies are destined to achieve great things, and I appreciate
your sincere loyalty to USU. But just know that you are not the only fan or
loyal supporter. I just would rather be positive than negative. It is a choice
we can all make. Smile...it will make you feel better.
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That college athletics is a money-making enterprise is a common misconception (the Ohio States and Notre Dames of the world being the exception). The goal, it seems, is to break even.
At any rate, the U. is involved in some major construction projects to improve athletic facilites, am I right?