Deseret News | Reader comments: UHSAA punishes Bingham principal, Hillcrest drill team

Reader comments
Principal, drill team punished

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Anonymous | 11:17 p.m. April 22, 2009

This was expected. Since when has the UHSAA done anything proactive for the association? Okay folks, its okay to break whatever rule you want, the pricetag is a mere 500 dollars. Pennys when it comes to how expensive drill can be.

Sad | 6:28 a.m. April 23, 2009

This is a sad ruling! I work at a Utah HS, NOT directly involved, and the kids at my school told me about the 'changes' which violated the rules. They said nothing would be done and they were right! It's too bad the UHSAA would rather levy blame on people who open their mouths and point out honest issues, rather than punish, and I mean really punish, those who violate the rules, which many call 'cheating'!

Typical | 6:37 a.m. April 23, 2009

This just shows what is wrong with society. A team cheats, admits it, but we slap the wrist and say don't do it again. This is why we cut education but build more prisons. Of course, I would cut education as well for obviously, we aren't very smart. That is why we say "don't cheat" because it's a fact that cheaters prosper!

Comments continue below

From Afar | 6:41 a.m. April 23, 2009

Being from another school, I applaud Mr. Hicks. I was at the meet and everyone that knows anything about drill, saw what took place. A blatant attempt to win at all costs. It's about time someone stood up and took a stand vs. those that try and win the wrong way. A great lesson can be learned from Principal Hicks!

Huh? | 6:45 a.m. April 23, 2009

How did this "investigation" become more focused on the principal than Hillcrest's blatant cheating? Did they ever look at the judge's scoring discrepancies?

UHSAA | 7:21 a.m. April 23, 2009

Typical UHSAA....Too afraid of the public backlash to actually take a stand on an issue...Weak minded people that feels threatened when someone other than a UHSAA employee tries to do something to better High School activities....Their incompetence makes me sick, and I can't believe that more people to do stand up against them.....Down with the UHSAA!

No Defense | 7:32 a.m. April 23, 2009

Any respect that the UHSAA had has evaporated! Protecting an official at any cost, under any circumstance, will not raise the standard of officiating at any level. And the victory of Hillcrest will always be remembered as 'tainted'.

Anonymous | 7:51 a.m. April 23, 2009

...and what does all this matter? And will someone tell me how, in this country, we make rules prohibiting criticism? Isn't that the American way? I guess that's where Al Gore is coming from.

My goodness, who cares if someone criticizes the officials? Who really cares? And in an event that is determined solely by the judges, those judges should be subject to review, and criticism.

Anonymous | 8:47 a.m. April 23, 2009

A school CHEATS - breaks the rules - GETS TO KEEP the State Championship title and the person who had the courage to bring this to the "governing body" of Utah high school athletics is the one who they punish and focus on!!! This is crazy. Anyone who watches and understand drill saw how Hillcrest broke the rules. Why bother with rules - especially if they get to keep the title after it being PROVEN that these rules were broken.

riverton dancer parent | 8:50 a.m. April 23, 2009

can't believe i would support bingham, but if its a basketball game, can you change the rules and give a kid say, 6 fouls instead of 5? mr hicks was right, and hillcrest basically cheated, improved their routine and won...competitions that are judged are already very difficult to determine a winner as opposed to other sports....put an astrisk by the hillcrest trophy because they earned it the wrong way!

Laurels | 8:58 a.m. April 23, 2009

I have a difficult time believing Hillcrest's coaches were not aware of the 16 count rule and violated it accidentally. Hillcrest's drill team is annually a contender for top state awards.

Even if the coaches were negligent in their knowledge of the rules, the UHSAA's refusal to enforce the rules is incomprehensible. Hillcrest's win should be invalidated. They broke the rules that everyone else had to follow.

Additionally, the judges brought in to judge these competitions should know the rules as well. If they don't understand the rules, then they are incompetent. If they do understand the rules, and ignore them, then there is validity in the concerns Principal Hicks brought up.

It would appear the UHSAA is more concerned about muzzling criticism than ensuring schools that compete in these competitions behave ethically and adhere to the rules that have been established.

Boo/Hiss at Hillcrest for cheating. Shame on the UHSAA for letting them get away with it.

Are you kidding? | 9:05 a.m. April 23, 2009

From the article it appears that the Hillcrest coaches admitted that they made a mistake! A mistake is not cheating - have you ever seen that rule book? It's huge and very difficult to keep track of every single rule and it's not very clear. 16 kicks or 16 counts? How can people say NOTHING was done? Folks were dragged into a hearing, they admitted they made a mistake, they were fined and put on probation - how is that nothing? This has gone on for months, reported in the media - how is that nothing? It may not be the outcome you wanted but it's not nothing! A principal taking his concerns to the proper comittee is the correct action - making false accusations in public as a principal is not!

What a Joke | 9:08 a.m. April 23, 2009

The UHSAA blew it. Here they had a situation where they could really make a statement and put schools on notice about improper behavior and the consequences thereof, but instead they just opened the door for more of the same problem. Now a school that cheats can just say, "Well Hillcrest did it and still won, so why can't we?" They want Utah students to learn that dishonesty brings dire consequences, but then they let a team keep a championship that was awarded based on dishonesty? HUH? Then they fine Mr. Hicks for violation of sportsmanship for speaking the truth? Um....CHEATING is the biggest violation of sportsmanship there is!! Hillcrest does not deserve the title. They know it and everyone else does, too. What a joke.

Just saying . . . | 9:27 a.m. April 23, 2009

Brighton finished 2nd NATIONALLY.

HS Drill | 9:32 a.m. April 23, 2009

...is out of control on almost all levels. Parents need to get a grip and be less hands on and the pressure from administrators to coaches could be lessened as well...I guess the same could be said for many of the activities within the HS arena. Work hard, compete, learn lessons, go home, scrapbook it, and move on with life. This is High school.

RE Are yo kidding me? @9:05 | 9:35 a.m. April 23, 2009

MISTAKE! I'm a coach of another sport and I KNOW THE RULES! This is the peak of competition in this area in the State! To be a State Champion you have to know what you're doing! You don't "luck" into it! They violated to rules for a reason. What that reason was I don't know! I do know that as a coach I make adjustments, WITHIN THE RULES!, to allow for team success. I'm sure the Hillcrest coaches were no different! Don't even try to pass this off as just a 'mistake'!! That's deserves a "Are you Kidding Me!"

As per nothing done remarks: all the talk in the world means nothing without action! Time and money was spent, discussions held, and in the end it all meant nothing. A principal is lighter in the wallet, as are a few coaches. Money can't 'make it right' for those athletes who were denied a State Championship because of a violation of the rules!

And... If the accusations made in public are true... more power to the principal! Based upon the ruling against the Hillcrest coaches, the accusations were true - NOT FALSE!

what | 9:48 a.m. April 23, 2009

What punishment do you people think would have been appropriate for Hillcrest? They were punished, what more do you want done?

Really? | 9:52 a.m. April 23, 2009

unbelievable!! Hilcrest dragged themselves into this when they "made their mistake" (cheating) and the fact that UHSAA has turned this into a money maker off a principal who genuinely cared about his team and the fairness of the sport is disgraceful. These rules have been in place for many years, and the coaches are well aware of how it works. Maybe the rules on how a principal is not supposed to be supportive of his/her teams should be made more clear. Bingham students are lucky to have the support of their princial and what a message UHSAA has conveyed. Now who fines them for their "unsportsman like conduct" in condenming the man for standing up for what was right? Shame on Hilcrest and even more shame on the UHSAA!!!

re: Are you Kidding? | 9:53 a.m. April 23, 2009

Interesting the different approaches to discipline. The soccer gal from Riverton that was stripped of her wins at a track meet because she competed in too many events. It was an honest "mistake", but that didn't stop them from taking away her victories. Or what about the girl that roled her shorts in a track meet? It was an honest "mistake", but she too was stripped of her achievement in State last year. A rule is a rule as was stated on this site many times. This seems like a double standard to me. The other part that frustrates me is punishing the "whistle blower". There are rules against this too. The principal didn't make false accusations, but asked for a review of the circumstances. It all starts with what the winning team did that may have caused the judging to be tainted. Once again....a rule is a rule. It needs to be enforced.

UHSAA at least be consistent in your enforcement of the rules. I am sure the gals/schools that ran track would have willingly paid a small fine to keep their wins.

Me, Myself and I | 10:21 a.m. April 23, 2009

I think the key point in this article isn't whether or not the judge cheated, but the fact that a team or its coaches did! An open and admitted breach of the rules which would have forfeited a basketball, football or other sports team's win was over looked and only the coaches were punished? I know it wasn't the students fault they were just doing what they were instructed to do but that doesn't mean the team should be spared and the coaches slapped on the wrist. In their first year of participation in the UHSAA American Leadership Academy won two football games. Both wins were stripped from the team because A COACH let an ineligible player play in those games. The team paid the price as they should have, as Hillcrest should have had their wins at the state competition taken from them. Yes it's unfair, but since when is life fair? In any team sport or activity you choose by being on that team to not only share in the glory but also the embarrassment and shame when someonebe it a coach or teammate cheats!

Anonymous | 10:31 a.m. April 23, 2009

What do you mean 16 counts or 16 kicks? The rule book says 16 counts!! That is 8 kicks, and don't for one second tell me that those coaches don't know that rule, it has been a rule forever! And since they've been coaching probably 15+ years I guarantee they know the rule, they just chose to break it so that they could win. I have a friend who is a drill coach and she told me that at all the coaches meetings they are given a rule book and told it is their resopnsibility to know it, and claiming ignorance will not get you out of being penalized. OH unless you are Hillcrest. Please, that tiltle should be stripped and the coaches fired for teaching impressionable teenagers to cheat if it gets you ahead!

Anonymous | 10:45 a.m. April 23, 2009

How does the UHSAA let this happen? Why have rules if certain schools are aloud to break them? Don't tell me those coaches don't know the rule- they just wanted to win. When you've been coaching as long as they have, you know the rules and this isn't a new one! They just opened Pandora's Box for all sport programs to cheat if it gets them ahead. What a great expamle to set for teenagers, if you can't win with what you've got- cheat! If I were a parent of a Hillcrest Drill Member I would pull her and take her to a program with integrity. Those coaches should be fired.

WOW! | 10:58 a.m. April 23, 2009

What a joke!! At any other level of sport if an individual or team is found cheating they would be stripped of the title, trophy, medal, whatever and usually get humiliated by the press and I guarantee they would never cheat again. Allowing Hillcrest to keep the title does nothing and who cares about probation what does that do. They should not be able to compete for the state title for at least one year!

BUT | 11:10 a.m. April 23, 2009

IT's DRILL TEAM!!!

It's really not even a sport, this should be covered in the women's section or something

Drill Team Supporter | 11:15 a.m. April 23, 2009

Interesting that so many "anonymous" people seem to be experts about this event. To label people that you do not know personally as "cheaters", "liars" and "unethical" is outrageous. How many other routines and teams were illegally video taped and compared AFTER the outcome of the meet was announced? Is Hillcrest really the only team to have changed their routine or just the one to be under a microscope because they were the winners that day? I don't applaud unsportsmanlike behavior and I was witness to the harassment following the state meet as was everyone in the building. I am someone who has been involved closely with this process and I know the details from both sides and am well educated in the sport. EVERYTHING about drill team is subjective and the outcome from all of this is the most appropriate action that could be taken...it wasnt too long ago that the Bingham Drill Team was accused of a hazing incedent, also a very big deal...I dont recall hearing of a punishment at all. Mistakes are made. Young athletes, coaches & officials do not deserve to be harassed over participating in an activity that they love.

A couple things | 11:31 a.m. April 23, 2009

1st - the Hillcrest coaches DID know that changing the routine more than 16 counts was against the rule. If they say they didn't they're lying.

2nd - The discrepancies between the judges scores and Hillcrest changing their routine have NOTHING to do with each other. Binghams principle was fined for complaining about officiating, not pointing out that Hillcrest cheated. He was not punished for bringing the rules violation to light.

I think he did the right thing and I'm glad he did it. However, I think that the rule about the officiating is a good one and he should be fined for breaking it. I do hope that there will be an investigation into the scoring discrepancies. Perhaps if something is discovered, his punishment could be reversed.

TO: What | 11:33 a.m. April 23, 2009

TO: what | 9:48 a.m. April 23, 2009

They should lose their title, that's "what".

Drill Fan | 11:48 a.m. April 23, 2009

The Hillcrest coaches have been coaching for MANY years and they KNOW the rules. They knew exactly what they were doing and they knew they would get away with it. This is not the first time. It is, however, the first time someone chose to take a stand. The Bingham Principal has my support.

Judging is always controversial because almost anyone can be a judge. You just have to go to a clinic and pass a test. It is a known fact that many judges have ties to certain schools and coaches. Judging needs to be revamped...again. There needs to be stricter requirements to be a judge. One judge can make a difference and did.

Hillcrest is an outstanding drill team. However, they were not the best THAT day and they did not follow the rules, they knew they didn't--they were willing to take the risk, they won. They will do it again. Sad for everyone involved.

To: Drill Team Supporter | 12:22 p.m. April 23, 2009

Nice Comment!!! If other teams cheated they should be disqualified as well! I love the attitude of everybodys cheating so we will too. Sounds like a sophmore not a mother!!!!! I agree that there is not place for harassment at all, but mistakes require consequenses, ot atleast they used too!!!!

Cleaver | 12:48 p.m. April 23, 2009

Hillcrest Coached knew the rule. They helped write the rule book. They also knew that there would be no punishment. The rule of changing 16 counts has been the rule forever, but the rule book just says that "a team in not allowed to change more that 16 counts between region and state". It does not state what will happen if you break the rule. Hillcrest coaches were smart to break the rule knowing no punishment. Good for them for finding a loophole.

Anonymous | 12:53 p.m. April 23, 2009

First parents need to lighten up. Second, when the competition is over, it's over. If it wasn't noticed and dealt with before the event concluded, it's too late.

to - Cleaver | 1:10 p.m. April 23, 2009

Hope you aren't a parent of one of my players. Cheating and loopholes are ok as long as you don't get caught? You are not who I would want my kids to be around. How about being able to report to yourself or look in the mirror? Have a good day but I would never feel good about cheating...period!

Joe | 1:19 p.m. April 23, 2009

Drill isn't a sport. Girls parents pay thousands of dollars for them to practice 24/7, carry 1000 pound bags around school and than to top it off, the championship is a 4 30 second routines, judged by desperate house wives hoping to help friends win championships.

Have your girls do cheerleading or take a cooking class.. No one can cheat you out of cooking.

seriously | 2:07 p.m. April 23, 2009

does anyone even know the definitions of mistake and cheating....well let me inform you.
mistake: an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgement caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge. a misunderstanding or misconception.
cheating: to defraud, to deceive, influence by fraud, to elude.
i think you all should get over it! seriously. its not like they knew they were going to win, that is up to the judges, so if they got second place, would they have still brought it up?

re: seriously | 2:28 p.m. April 23, 2009

Say that to the girls that ran track and were disqualified for rolling their shorts or competing in too many events. They didn't know they were going to win either, but did and were disqualified. USHAA rules were enforced. They didn't cheat, but made a mistake...now apply your rule.

dugger | 2:33 p.m. April 23, 2009

RE: Joe
Try try at a cheap shot against women sports. Let's examine HS football under your logic: a few wannabe had-beens coaching a bunch of testosterone-laden, no talent teenagers in a game that only produces injuries. They'd be better off learning to roof a house, because none of them will ever make a living at football.

THIS IS ABOUT CHEATING, and the UHSSA letting cheaters keep their title. This is more of a life lesson than the sports themselves. Try to look at the big picture instead of your petty prejudices.

re: TO: what | 2:55 p.m. April 23, 2009

So if you take away their title, doesn't that punish kids for following their coaches? All the Hillcrest kids did was go and dance, they did not coach and did not judge, why punish the kids?

What' all the FUSS | 2:55 p.m. April 23, 2009

I happened to be at the State Competition this year and Bingham just edged out Brighton for the title. I saw some great routines from Lone Peak, Davis, Copper Hills, and others. I was especially proud of the way the girls from the other schools came over to celebrate with Bingham and Brighton, what a classy bunch of students. Great Job Girls!!!!!

HHS Drill Dad-Part I | 3:21 p.m. April 23, 2009

First, I was a HHS Drill Dad for three years in the past and have seen the hardworking dedicated coaches and drill team ladies at work. They, like all drill teams I am sure, work very hard at their craft, art, and in my opinion, sport, athletic at least. The coaches give their all, all year long, beyond the competitions, beyond the school hours; they are awesome on many levels.
These HHS coaches have produced premium routines and young ladies for years and they did not have to cheat to achieve the amazing results for a decade plus.
Having said that, it is disappointing that a mistake was made. I agree these seasoned coaches knew the rules and knew them well. Whether it was a mistake or a cheat, it is still disappointing that the team and efforts of the young ladies on the drill team would have to suffer for those decisions and that those would did follow the rules were not rightly and satisfactorily treated the way they deserve. It is terrible that other drill teams who competed have to suffer as well for the mistake of HHS coaches, the judging and final rulings.

Interesting | 3:27 p.m. April 23, 2009

I think it is funny Bingham's principal knows so much about what is and what isn't cheating. I have never been involved in drill, but I have been involved with HS athletics over the past 20+ years. There are certain schools in which "cheating" is so much a part of the athletic programs it is laughable. Bingham, Skyline, Provo, Timpview, Highland, Cottonwood, and Hillcrest all immediately come to mind. This argument about cheating is basically the Pot calling the Kettle Black. The UHSAA is all about "pretending to" uphold rules when specific schools are involved (a few mentioned above), while upholding the rules when a school isn't "special" enough to get a pass on cheating and keep ill gotten gain.

Honest Question Here | 3:27 p.m. April 23, 2009

What exactly did Hillcrest do to break the rules?

An honest question because I'm unfamiliar with the background in this issue. 16 kicks? 16 counts? Did they change the routine when they weren't allowed to?

Re: Interesting | 3:57 p.m. April 23, 2009

I agree there are a lot of schools given a pass when it comes to following the rules. Including recruitment of athletes by coaches and administrators to teaching kids how to injure other teams players. Don't even get me started on the officials/judges at events.

I was going to add to the list of schools you provided but when thinking about the schools I kept agreeing and thinking he/she already has mentioned them.... thought of one you missed Alta.

Cheating is not fair to anyone | 4:53 p.m. April 23, 2009

Cheating by coaches is not fair to athlete.

Breaking a rule is not fair to athlete, so those that say Hillcrest did not cheat they still broke a rule.

It's not fair to those that could have won if Hillcreat did not cheat (break the rules), it's not fair to the girls on the Hillcrest drill team (because for the most part I don't believe the students are at fault for most of the cheating that takes place in HS sports).

So for those adults that cheat (or break rules) are punishing all the students. As you can see Hillcrest's coaches cheating (or breaking rules) hurt all of the girls on all of the teams. They hurt there own girls just as much if not more then the girls from the other teams.

No punishment the UHSAA could have come up with would have fixed everything for all the girls that are being punished for what the Hillcrest coaches did.

So the problem I have it that the punishment was not the same as the Crosscountry & Track athletes mention in the above comments.

At least be as fair and consistent as possible.

The players earned that.

All school cheat | 5:09 p.m. April 23, 2009

I've only really worked for one school. But I have known enough coaches for dozens of schools to know that not only the school already named above, but almost (if not every school) has cheated in almost every sports.

Most of the things are little (or at least people thing they are little things). But they teach all players that cheating is ok, the only difference is what level each player thinks is ok. So will say only little things are ok, others will say anything you think you can get away with is ok.

Almost every parent and player forgets that all these sports don't really mean much in the big picture (no matter what your big picture is).

Being happy, having friends, taking care of your family, church (if you believe in something), all of thse type things are important.

Sports don't mean anything in the long run.

The kids do, what they learn does, the people they can become because of what they learned from sports does. But the actual sports don't.

Yes, I have coached and love sports. I have coached 3 sports over a 16 year period, and have won lots.

Another point of view | 6:09 p.m. April 23, 2009

There are to groups I wouldn't want to belong to next year. Hillcrest Drill Team because they will be criticized, scrutinized, belittled and taunted by the masses. They can't be awarded the State title again or this will all blow up BIG TIME again, no matter how well they perform. Next I wouldn't want to be a judge. Talk about being under a huge microscope from here on out. Their names are on the State programs and the judging sheets are out there for the media now. So let's all give a big thanks to Brenda Searle and her twinner for hurting the entire sport of drill ( yes to you uneducated hillbillies it is a sport). Where do you keep the trophy?

Anonymous | 6:11 p.m. April 23, 2009

So say a basketball team lets a couple great players play, and their GPA was below the required 2.0. They go on to win the championship because of these these two great players. After the game, it is found out that these coaches let these kids play with such a GPA. Do we just slap them on the wrist, and say never let it happen again. NO! you strip them of their title, they deliberately cheated and they know they did. This is the same situation, these coaches cheated and they knew they were doing it. My hats off to Tom Hicks! Way to stand up for what is right

Here we go again with | 7:24 p.m. April 23, 2009

blaming those that say it is wrong instead of getting after the quilty party. The Husky coaching staff got off way too easy. Their title should be taken away. I have heard the argument already about "why make the kids suffer" for a coaches mistake. No one would ever go to jail then. "It was my upbringing, my dad was too tough on me, etc, excuses, excuses, excuses. Kids cheat on tests and we say don't do it again. People rape others and get out on good behavior. We need to take a stand against wrongdoing so these things don't continue to happen.

awsomeron | 7:36 p.m. April 23, 2009

Drill Team, is a Sport, it takes Skill, Timing, Training, Dedication. Sadly it is a Judged Sport as opposed to a Points Sport. In Judged Sports you have an added problem of the Human factor. What People Think, and what they say or have said, sometimes affecting the judgment.

You take that Risk when you sign up.

Drill Team, Flag Team, are Hard Work, Fun, and Great Socialization.

The Judge | 8:25 a.m. April 24, 2009

The judge was from California and is new this year. In California, they score much lower than they do here. when local drill teams go to out of state competitions, they will sometimes score in the 80s. There is almost never a score below 90 given in Utah. Her scores may have been much lower for Bingham and Brighton than the other judges, but I would be willing to bet that they were consistently lower than the other judges for every school. The Bingham principle should have checked that out first!

to The Judge @ 8:25 | 8:53 a.m. April 24, 2009

It's not the scoring number it's the ranking that this judge gave. She ranked both Bingham and Brighton (which were Hillcrest's main competition) 10th on one dance each when all of the other judges had both of these schools ranked at the very top. It would be different if other judges had done anything even close to this judges ranking, but this was not the case. How much more obvious could this judge make her intentions? These judging sheets have been posted on KUTV's website, anyone can see them. This judge's low ranking insured that Hillcrest would be first. It was very obvious what was going on when only ONE judge sees it this way and her low rankings just happen to penalize Brighton and Bingham. Anyone who was at the competition can see right through this. This judge ranked these two top teams consistently at the bottom while ranking other schools who obviously were not at the same level much higher. It's so blatant it's almost funny. That is if wasn't so unfair to all involved. It made a mockery of the competition.

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