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LDS African-Americans reflect on Obama, racism

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zulu | 12:59 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Absolutely astonishing...

the history of Mormonism on race is clear, yet people deny, deny deny.

Wasn't it Bill Clinton who said "I did not have sex with that woman...Ms. Lewinski..."

Not sure what to say...up is down, black is white, and so on and so on...

Allen Keys | 2:48 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

I would have voted for Allen Keys, a conservative African American in a heart beat! Obama, I don't agree with on anything! From abortion to terrorism to gun control to bailouts. Wrong, wrong, wrong, Mr, President!

awsomeron | 3:20 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

If you are looking beyond the Color of a Mans Skin. Then why are you so into The 1st African American Elected President.

Obama is not African American, an African American (Not Part),is someone who is totally Black and is the descendent of SLAVES.

The best Obama can do is be Part Black and Part White, or as we say a person of color, or mixed raced.

His Father was not a Slave but was in America on a Student Visa. If he had gone to the School Marcus McCoy went to, and he did what he did in Hawaii, then he very likely would have been hung. Other things also.

Obama is Mixed Raced. Tiger Woods calls him Mixed Raced and Tiger should know. I call him mixed raced and I should know. You acknowledge all your races. If you do not then you are PASSING and that is Vile in any direction.

The media wants to call him African American because it means Gate and Ratings.

My Main Objection to Obama is his stand on ABORTION. Which is against a tenant of my Faith, it is a Major Abomination. Marcus McCoy, RM should be massively offended also.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 6:47 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

I'm not black. But, I'm different. I've been the minority all my life too. It makes me lonely at times, angry some of the time, but in the end wiser and more reliant on Heavenly Father.

I'm concerned about this total acceptance of Obama. He's only 4% African. Yet, it seems many African Americans look to him as their knight in shinning armor. Remember, the truth is what will set us free....and that is very very seldom offered by the media let alone a politician.

Instereo | 8:06 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Amazing, this article is about how there is less racism in the US and in the LDS Church and all the comments so far appear to be just a different sort of racism that doesn't really mask the hate people feel for those that are different.

Happy | 8:45 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

I visited an LDS congregation in Accra, Ghana. Everyone in leadership was a local, there were a few whites in the Ward. Everyone was friendly and happy, and very nicely dressed for church. It is good to see the Church grow and the members grow in Africa.

Robert Oh | 8:46 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

It would be nice for this man to be able to look up on the stand during General Conference and see an Apostle who looks like him.

Anonymous | 8:46 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

So because I disagree with Obama on his politics I'm a racist? I think you are the racist. I'm the one who is informed. Color does not matter, it is the issues.

Shummy | 9:06 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Since this article appeared in Mormon Times, my comments are to and for Mormons supporting Obama.

I'm also concerned about the total excitement and acceptance of Obama. His views and goals for America are completely antithetical to a belief in the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.

First, he's a socialist, at best, believing in taxation well above the 20% the Book of Mormon refers to as evil. His quick signature of the "stimulus bill" is ample illustration of that.

Second, he's in favor of killing babies (born or unborn), which we all know is an abomination. Those two things alone should make anyone who professes to be LDS do everything they can to prevent his election.

Unfortunately, CHANGE and HOPE have been used to shove this evil down the throats of otherwise thinking Americans.

So what if he's "black." Rejecting him is not racist. Race is NOT the issue. He's wrong for America, period.

Bill | 9:06 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Yes, for the next 4 years *any* criticism of the president will label you a racist. Sad but true.

JS | 9:07 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

I agree - I think Obama won because he was black! Not African-American. He ran on the color of his skin, not on issues and that is why he was voted in. Well good, now we see that America is not as recist as before and I am as grateful of that as anyone else - but I think in the long run we got a lousy President of the United States, but that dosen't seem to matter because he has black skin and that seems to be the MOST IMPORTANT thing this man brought to the election.

Sandy | 9:14 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

I'm not racist but I don't agree with Obama or anything he is doing.

I'm a white person and I feel a lot of racism coming from others nowadays who hate white people. It seems that it is ok for another race to make fun of the white race and this is perfectly acceptable.

John Pack Lambert | 9:23 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

It appears from the comments that racism is alive and well in Utah.

Ross | 9:34 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

I think these guys should look past the Black and see what Obama is doing to this country. He and his gang of criminals that he has appointed are destroying the Constitution, especially the 1st ammendment for Conservatives, and the Second for eveyone. What's next, book burning?

I feel this is already one of the most corrupt administrations in our history. It seems like you have to be a tax cheat or some other crook to get appointed by Obama.

Change? You bet we're getting change. Reminds me of the change in Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy. There is so much similarity it's frightening.

re: robert oh... | 9:56 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Oh, Robert! what is there really even to say to your comments, well actually a ton of stuff could be said, but we are only allowed 200 words or less.

So here we go, if you had any idea of how the Lord works you would know without a DOUBT, that the Lord's choices are NOT based on color, race or any other identifiers other than righteousness. I can only say that there will be a day, and probably not to far off, that a black general authority will be sitting on the stand in the conference center during conference.

But!! Know this, the Lord will not put someone in such a calling to appease the outside world and/or media, or even in some cases, the church members themselves. Always remember Robert, this is HIS church, not yours or mine, and HE will call who HE choses, not just to be politically correct or give token callings to have as symbols.

RE: John Pack Lambert | 9:58 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

I swear, you just love to see your name printed even if it's only in a ridiculous comment section. What racism? These people just don't agree with Obama's tactics, policies, and bizarre "ethics." That has nothing to do with his race... which isn't even accurately protrayed. I saw one comment that could be construed into a bit racist made by someone who probably just hasn't had much exposure to other cultures, and certainly had no hatred. And I saw another one that is clearly racist coming from the other end, against those not black. And NEWS FLASH John: plenty of people from other states are commenting on here. I'm not in UT, and often see others mention they aren't living in UT. OH... but what you REALLY meant is lds. The only LDS I know that are racist are a of couple stupid very old men who have never ventured out of their home town and have no clue what they are even talking about. When they die and see reality, they will feel stupid, but certainly aren't filled with hate. And that HARDLY represents an entire religion.

Eyes wide open | 10:11 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Hey, Ross, I totally agree with you. It seems too many people are blind to the facts of what is truly going on in our country.

Anonymous | 10:18 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

1.Less than 15% of the USA population is from African heritage ï¿½ so why should they be entitled to more than 50% of the rest of us.
2.Read the BofM & tell me who this slick guy acts like.
3.The people who are getting houses fore-closed on should not have bought one that they could not afford.
4.I hope that Barrack does a good job but I donï¿½t see how he will ï¿½ no experience
5.For all you LDS & other supposed Christians ï¿½ he supports abortions.
6.He lied about what he was going to do ï¿½ for one thing look at all the people who were in Bill Clintonï¿½s government.
7. May we get thru this 4 years without any larger problems.

Child of God | 10:19 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

This article is not about Obama, it is about hope for all of God's childeren. The BOM states that Alma found that the preaching of the word of God (the gospel) had a greater effect on bringing peace to the land than anything else. I am very glad to see that the preaching of the gospel continues and that all of God's childeren are able to fulling embrace the blessings. I am very hopeful that race continues to become more and more of a none issue. My childeren never use skin color to describe their friends or other people. I try not to and instead desrive people by other characteristics. I have never posted before, but felt a need to. Usually the posts are so full of anger and hate. The point of the article is that race relations have improved in the church and US, but there is still room for improvement.

John Z | 10:37 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

While I don't believe Obama and the Democrats are socialists, socialism is not antithetical to the gospel. Remember the communal economics advocated by Joseph Smith and practised by Brigham Young. And for that matter, neither is being pro-choice in opposition to the gospel. Even the church allows for abortion under certain circumstances. Obama is a breath of frsh air for this country. We'll be better off for him.

something must love you? | 10:48 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Oh, Brother! more blah blah blah.

Rob | 11:05 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

LDS still hold that blacks got their skin color by not fighting as valiantly in the pre-earth life. The Book of Mormon still teaches "And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites" (3 Ne. 2:15). And Alma 3:6-9 still says that the curse of black skin was given to keep the righteous white skinned people from interbreeding with those unrighteous dark skinned people.

Robert Oh | 11:17 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

To anonymous robert attacker at 9:56.

There was no criticism in my comment. After reading the article about a man that sometimes felt like an outsider in his church, all I said was that it would be nice for him to see someone who looks like him in a high leadership position in his church.

Sheeez, and some wonder why some people think Mormons have a persecution complex.

Anonymous | 11:34 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Before we judge Obama as a president we need to see what he accomplishes. I didn't vote for him personally but I do respect the office he holds, and I still believe in democracy and that the government will balance itself out. I am glad to see that minority groups feel accepted in the church, as they should. Race doesn't matter if we come to understand that we are all children of God.

Cats | 11:41 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

TO John Z: I don't know what planet you are living on, but it clearly isn't the same one the LDS Church lives on.

I also don't know why anyone would say that Obama ISN'T African-American. His father was African and his mother was American. I can't imagine what other criteria you would need to be considered African-American.

LOOK, this ariticle is NOT about Obama. It is about the progress that has been made in the Church for acceptance and unity among all of our Father's children. The Lord has said, "if you are not one, you are not mine." If we truly want to do God's work and help pave the way for the Coming of Christ, we need to love and help one another.

I'm thrilled we have made this progress and we need to continue trying to do even better. The Gospel is the Truth and God's plan for all His children. Let us all go forward together in faith and love.

Thanks to everyone for this wonderful article.

Sangradouro | 11:46 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

awsomeron | 3:20 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009 "Obama is not African American, an African American (Not Part),is someone who is totally Black and is the descendent of SLAVES."

Says who and who cares?

Southerner | 11:50 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

JS | 9:07 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009
I agree - I think Obama won because he was black!

Obama won because he had more electoral votes. If you want to dissect the reason "why" people voted for him is a question that is only concerned by people who wanted McCain to win.

Why are Americans such sore losers? The Dems complained that Bush stole the election. The GOP complain that Obama won because he was black. And the "No on Prop 8" voters complain that Prop 8 passed because of the Mormon church.

A vote is a vote. Live with it and move on.

Cats | 11:51 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009

To Rob: The Church actually has NEVER taught that Blacks got their skin color for being less valiant in the pre-existence. That is a cultural tradition that was NEVER taught as official doctrine. Also, the Book of Mormon references are for a completely DIFFERENT group of people, so THAT argument CANNOT be made for this particular issue.

I have learned over the years that there are MANY cultural folk tales that have crept into LDS beliefs that are not based on ANY doctrine but have come to be accepted as such over the years. One must be VERY CAREFUL in passing these along because they can really wreak a lot of havoc when they are not based on ANY doctrine ever taught by the Church or the Prophets.

Please, be careful in the future. Okay?

Anonymous | 12:16 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

You would have to live in UTAH to know the true Mormon religion of the people living there. It is different in Utah. The people are fill with themselves. God is secondary, and racism is big time!

Tom | 12:18 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

I enjoyed this article. I recently talked with a friend just released as a mission president. He said that based on the number of members, the gospel is growing faster in Africa than any other country in the world. I was excited the day I heard that spanish was the number one language in the church. I share similar feelings as these to brothers and look forward to seeing the gospel spread to Gods children of African heritage weather they live in America or any other part of the world. The gospel is for all of Gods children. I have lived in Utah most of my life and know there have been and still are prejudices we need to work on to become the people our Savior wants us to be. I congratulate these two brethren on their faithfulness.

Aaron Shafovaloff | 12:34 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Cats, apparently you haven't read the 1949/51 First Presidency statement,

"The attitude of the Church with reference to the Negroes remains as it has always stood. It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, to the effect that Negroes may become members of the Church but that they are not entitled to the Priesthood at the present time... The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the pre-mortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality" (Official First Presidency statement, August 17, 1951 [some sources date this to 1949], cf. John Lewis Lund, The Church and the Negro, p.89).

This was an institutional error that was never explicitly repudiated with an official apology. I still know Mormons who say they either believe this stuff or are "open" to it.

Chance | 12:38 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

So....let me see if I get this right....If I do not like Obama as a president, I am a racist. If I feel like race issues are constantly crammed down our throats, I am a racist. If I have any problems with Obama at any time during his presidency, I am a racist. If I do not talk about race, believe and promote in "Racism" as a valid overwhelming issue, I am a racist. Now who is promoting segregation? I guess the shoe feels much better when it is on the other foot, huh?

Chance | 12:41 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

The fellow in this story (the photo) seems like a nice guy. I think I would like him, but lets get over it already and pay a bit of attention to what Obama is doing to this country. We LDS have been blamed for racism before, nothing new. blah blah. Get past it. We have to work on providing resistance and ignore the cat calls.

KPHT | 12:53 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Black people are just as racist as are the white people. It goes for all races of people. John Pack Lambert is correct but he left out the other side of things.

veedub | 12:56 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

I don't agree with Obama's politics--far from it. However, I don't think his politics have much of anything to do with his race, and could care less what color he is.

However, I've always been puzzled by the race thing. Why do we automatically consider anyone with a non-white heritage a non-white--even though that may be a small percentage of that person's makeup? It seems Obama is half white and half African, yet he is considered black.

My wife is 100% Mexican heritage, although racially that isn't clear either, since her mother's side is Italian (generations in Mexico) and her father's side is part Spanish and part Mexican Indian. I'm pretty much all northern European heritage, so what are our kids? They could be considered Hispanic, but really they are only 1/4 Hispanic heritage.

My point? I think there's some subtle racism when color still seems to define what someone's heritage is. I'm waiting for the day when we can really ignore that or have intermarried so much that racial features can't be distinguished.

@Anonymous | 12:16 p.m. | 12:57 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Well well Mr Utah expert, you dont know me! I've lived here all my life i've dated two Afro American girls and a hand full of Latinas! So i just tossed your thoughtless remark to the wind buddy. Save your judgement for the jury smarty pants! HA! I love all walks of life, if you want racism to exist just keep up with your thoughtless talk!

Tom | 1:05 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

I find interesting all the individual members that declare church policy. The Church has not said anything negative about our new president. All I have heard has been supportive in a general way. We can share our own views of what we feel is good political policy and even what we believe is in harmony with the gospel but they are individual views. I am not obligated to subscribe to your views and you are not obligated to subscribe to mine. I am not a bad person or even a bad Latter-day Saint if I wish the best for our currant president and believe that he is trying to do his best.

HUH? | 1:07 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

-- Speak for yourself. I am white and I have lived around people who were not white and they were ever bit as racists as the whites. If you haven't walk the walk then please don't comment.

Rob Sivulka | 1:09 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Cats: Whether you believe or not what the First Presidency has taught about how blacks received their skin color (cf. Aaron Shafovaloff's post) is irrelevant to the fact that many LDS still believe this. Further, of course the Book of Mormon references are for a different time. Nonetheless, the God presented there was a racist at one point to curse some with dark skin and then remove it upon repentance. Giving black men the opportunity for the priesthood in '78 doesn't preclude God from cursing individuals with dark skin and removing it upon repentance today.

John Z | 1:09 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Cats: Aaron Shafovaloff is right. Indeed, when I was on my mission in Brazil, we were taught this doctrine officially by the mission presidency and then we had a special lesson exactly on this topic in order to root out those with "the mark of Cain." Appalling, isn't it.

Pauline | 1:29 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Some people in Utah live in a total and complete dream world. It's time some of you people wake up to who you truly are, and do some deep soul searching. For instance, check your mirror image out and then ask yourself this question, as you gaze at yourself straight forward-- AM I A RACIST OR A BIGOT?. The problem with Utah is that its not just the race issue there, but its a way with everyone and everything, if you don't fit into the plastic jello mold there.

Cats | 1:39 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

If I am mistaken, I apologize. But, I have read a number of articles and seen a number of talks given by scholars who make the claim that the Church NEVER adopted this stand as official doctrine. The Church (President Hinckley)takes the position that it doesn't know the reason why the priesthood was withheld from blacks, but that it is now behind us and we need to move on.

As a child, I heard all the stories that were given as to why blacks didn't receive the priesthood. I have later been informed by scholars of the Church that these stories were only speculation on the part of individuals and were never the official position of the Church or the prophets. I also know that sometimes this stuff crept into Church publications and was taught by mission presidents. I know someone who went to Brazil who was taught the same thing.

However, as I said, I have since been informed by scholars, who have researched it that, this stuff was all taught in error. I believe that to be the case and I certainly hope it is.

Ut racists | 1:55 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

You people can learn for yourselves why Utah is a racist state.

The Mormon interpretation of "the curse of Cain", or the curse of black skin that befell Cain's descendant's, is not the same as the "mark of Cain" set upon Cain himself by God. According to Moses 7:5-8Statements concerning the curse of Cain clearly identify both the mark and curse with the "Negro" race, in Latter Day Saint scripture. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young both identify, without question or doubt, the Black people of African descent as descendants of Cain.

John Z | 2:04 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Of course, it was taught in error, but it was still taught.

Aaron Shafovaloff | 2:10 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Cats, whether or not something was "official" still begs the question of whether it was institutionally promoted, and if so, whether there has been an institutional, explicit repudiation. I propose that Mormonism, in practice, oscillates between three models of authority and doctrine:

sola scritpura - Scripture is the final and alone binding source of authority. If it's not in scripture, or if it is not inferred by scripture, it is not doctrinal and it is not binding. This is the view that neo-orthodox Stephen E. Robinson ostensibly takes in How Wide The Divide.

prima scriptura - Scripture is the highest, most final binding source of authority, but it is not the only source of that which is binding and doctrinal. Other sources, such as current church leadership (considered lesser because they are compared with scripture and discarded if in contradiction with scripture) are also binding. This is a view that more sophisticated LDS apologists like Blake Ostler ostensibly take.

prima ecclesia - Modern church leadership is the highest, most final binding source of authority and doctrine, and may override other sources of authority and doctrine, like scripture, if there is contradiction. This is the main view of traditionalists.

Take care.

Corypheus | 2:45 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

The fundamental issue is not racism. I don't care what the president's race is. His race is not relevant. If he was elected primarily for reasons of race, that was a big mistake. The "real" issue is honesty, integrity and the knowledge and ability to do the job. Granted he hasn't had much time as president or anything else that would prepare him for this job. So far, Obama has failed in all categories according to what I've read and heard. Stereotyping not intended, this seems to be a characteristics of many politicians (Republicans and Democrat). I strongly suggest that we clear our minds of the irrelevant race issue and focus on what he and his congressional party is doing or not doing as it were.

Tom | 3:25 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

I agree that there have been some things in our history that I can not explain. The reason that I believe is Because of the 98% of our theology that I find very uplifting and brings me closer to God not the 2% I don't understand. If you believe in the bible as I do then it is not hard to see the influence of individuals personalities and culture in the messages presented their. I have observed that the Mormon people are not more racist than other Americans, and less racist than much of the country. I am grateful for the greater light and knowledge we received 30 years ago. It is part of our theology that we believe that "God will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God." The gospel is still unfolding and I believe we will do best by living in the present.

Greg | 4:01 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Actually, Aaron (@2:10pm), per my understanding, this is really quite simple. The LDS scriptural canon and signed 'official' statements of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles represent the only 'Official' sources of LDS doctrine and teaching. All else--regardless of whether it contains truth or not--is personal opinion, non-canonical teaching, tradition, and/or speculation.

Rodney | 7:09 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

Can't we all just get along?

Anonymous | 7:28 p.m. Feb. 18, 2009

I have to say that this whole election was based on race and everything that Obama says has a racial overtone. I have friends that is not LDS and is black and as we have talked he admitted that everytime Obama speaks he speaks with racial overtones. I grew up in Idaho and Utah and I was not to be concerned with color and I think I have done good about not looking at a persons color, but their hearts. What I can tell the majority of people look at race more than they do a persons heart. I don't think Utah is any more racist than any other state.

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