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Was Duchesne farmer the Sundance Kid?
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Anonymous | 8:27 a.m. March 2, 2009
Ghosttown Bob,
The informant on the death certificate for Julia Ann Long Parker was her son M. A. Parker, he shows Julias mother as Mary Jane Stafford born Uniontown, Fayette County, Pennsylvania. I would consider her son, Marshall Andrew Parker as the best family source of knowledgeable information.
The informant on the death certificate for Julia Ann Long Parker was her son M. A. Parker, he shows Julias mother as Mary Jane Stafford born Uniontown, Fayette County, Pennsylvania. I would consider her son, Marshall Andrew Parker as the best family source of knowledgeable information.
Double Eagle | 11:42 a.m. March 2, 2009
Horse Creek Cowboy
I am surprized that Dan would even be willing to engage in discussion when he is belittled, made fun of and assailed.
HCC. On a previous blog out of a total of 275 posts, Mr. Buck posted 43 times, he belittled, made fun of and assailed anyone and everyone, who dared an opinion. He then continually referred to his numerous web sites, where he belittles, makes fun of and assails everyone. What goes around, comes around.
I am surprized that Dan would even be willing to engage in discussion when he is belittled, made fun of and assailed.
HCC. On a previous blog out of a total of 275 posts, Mr. Buck posted 43 times, he belittled, made fun of and assailed anyone and everyone, who dared an opinion. He then continually referred to his numerous web sites, where he belittles, makes fun of and assails everyone. What goes around, comes around.
Comments continue below
AC | 5:53 p.m. March 2, 2009
"HCC. On a previous blog out of a total of 275 posts, Mr. Buck posted 43
times, he belittled, made fun of and assailed anyone and everyone, who dared an
opinion. He then continually referred to his numerous web sites, where he
belittles, makes fun of and assails everyone. What goes around, comes
around."
You know DE, there are those that are big enough to come forward, stand up and take the medicine they fully deserve. In other words, be man enough to be held accountable! Then there are those that when FACTS/QUESTIONS are presented of things they have done for a number of years, they are unable to defend what they have done. There are certain actions that really have no defense, in a decent world. Some also believe, one can run and hide just so long. When the mirror reflects what is, some refuse to look in the mirror. You are welcome to draw your own conclsions.
AC
You know DE, there are those that are big enough to come forward, stand up and take the medicine they fully deserve. In other words, be man enough to be held accountable! Then there are those that when FACTS/QUESTIONS are presented of things they have done for a number of years, they are unable to defend what they have done. There are certain actions that really have no defense, in a decent world. Some also believe, one can run and hide just so long. When the mirror reflects what is, some refuse to look in the mirror. You are welcome to draw your own conclsions.
AC
Jerry Nickle | 7:01 p.m. March 2, 2009
OK
Ghost Town Bob you just dont know when your beat, so lets try a different approach. The only record you have found for your William Henry Long is his Army record. Your William Henry Long is the source for this record. He was born in Fayette County Pennsylvania around 1857. You have not provided the census records from Fayette County, which would show his parents birthplace and names which could be compared with mine. My William Henry Long is the source for his marriage license and four
Jerry Nickle | 7:02 p.m. March 2, 2009
census records. All These records show my William Henry Long was born around
1867. Your William Henry Long is ten years older than mine so they are
different men. The only thing they have in Common is they both spent time in
Wyoming and this is what you use to conclude they are the same man. A bit
ridicules dont you think?
PS
My William Henry Longs mothers given name was Ann, just like Harry longabaughs mothers given name. But as you say there are thousands of Anns so it means nothing. What is your William Henry Longs mothers given name? Is it Ann?
PS
My William Henry Longs mothers given name was Ann, just like Harry longabaughs mothers given name. But as you say there are thousands of Anns so it means nothing. What is your William Henry Longs mothers given name? Is it Ann?
Ghosttown Bob | 8:35 p.m. March 2, 2009
Jerry, first of all, thank you for your kind comment about the E. Place
reference in Donna Ernst's book.
Now concerning William Long. you mention that William Henry Long's calculated birth year is 1867 as evidenced from the censuses and his marriage record.
The records showing 1867 are as follows:
1910 census William Long's age is 43 (born ca. 1867)
1920 census William Long's age is 53 (born ca. 1867)
1930 census William Long's age is 63 (born ca. 1867)
William Long's marriage reocrd in 1894 lists his age as 27 (born ca. 1867).
Other records in Utah give other dates for William Henry Long's birth:
-the 1900 census give an age of 36 (born ca. 1864)
-William Henry Long's Death Certificate gives a birth date of: Feb 2, 1860
-William Henry Long's tombstone has a birth date of 2 Feb, 1860
-William Hnery Long's obituary gives an age of 76 in 1936 (born 1860)
Now concerning William Long. you mention that William Henry Long's calculated birth year is 1867 as evidenced from the censuses and his marriage record.
The records showing 1867 are as follows:
1910 census William Long's age is 43 (born ca. 1867)
1920 census William Long's age is 53 (born ca. 1867)
1930 census William Long's age is 63 (born ca. 1867)
William Long's marriage reocrd in 1894 lists his age as 27 (born ca. 1867).
Other records in Utah give other dates for William Henry Long's birth:
-the 1900 census give an age of 36 (born ca. 1864)
-William Henry Long's Death Certificate gives a birth date of: Feb 2, 1860
-William Henry Long's tombstone has a birth date of 2 Feb, 1860
-William Hnery Long's obituary gives an age of 76 in 1936 (born 1860)
Ghosttown Bob | 8:48 p.m. March 2, 2009
You presume that all of the census data comes from William Henry Long. That is
not necessarily the case. Census takers took information from whomever answered
the door. The information could just as easily come from Luzernia. His age on
his birth record probably did come from him. The data on the 1900 census could
have come from him, or Charles Anderson, or Emery Hector those with whom he was
living at the time. The date from the obituary, death cert., and tombstone all
presumably come from Evinda, his daughter.
In summary, from your own records that have been presented, William Henry Long could have been born in 1860, 1864, or 1867.
Now, from the 1880 census: William Long's age is given as 21 (born 1859)
from the 1870 census William Long's age is given as 13 (born 1857)
from the 1860 census William Long's age is given as 3 (born 1857)
From his military records in 1886 William Long lists his age as 21 (born 1865)
in 1891 William Long lists his age as 26 (born 1865)
In summary, from your own records that have been presented, William Henry Long could have been born in 1860, 1864, or 1867.
Now, from the 1880 census: William Long's age is given as 21 (born 1859)
from the 1870 census William Long's age is given as 13 (born 1857)
from the 1860 census William Long's age is given as 3 (born 1857)
From his military records in 1886 William Long lists his age as 21 (born 1865)
in 1891 William Long lists his age as 26 (born 1865)
Ghosttown Bob | 9:02 p.m. March 2, 2009
As you can see William Henry Long in Utah records could have been born anywhere
from 1860 to 1867. William Long in the earlier census records and military
records could have been born anywhere between 1857 and 1865. This looks like a
pretty good overlap to me.
Now concerning his mother's name I quote your previous website material: "He never told anyone within the Morrell/Allred family circle whi his parents were other than to mention more than on one occasion that his mother was named Ann." This, and Williams Henry Long's death certificate are the only sources for his mother's name. Hardly conclusive. On the other hand William Long's mothers name in the 1880, 1870, and 1850 censuses is listed as either Mary J. or Mary Jane. The Ancestral File however lists his mother's name as Mary Ann Stafford. Just the same, hardly conclusive.
Now concerning his mother's name I quote your previous website material: "He never told anyone within the Morrell/Allred family circle whi his parents were other than to mention more than on one occasion that his mother was named Ann." This, and Williams Henry Long's death certificate are the only sources for his mother's name. Hardly conclusive. On the other hand William Long's mothers name in the 1880, 1870, and 1850 censuses is listed as either Mary J. or Mary Jane. The Ancestral File however lists his mother's name as Mary Ann Stafford. Just the same, hardly conclusive.
Ghosttown Bob | 9:26 p.m. March 2, 2009
As for birth places. Your previous website material states: "Bill Long is
born by his own stories either in Wyoming, Eastern US or Idaho." William
Henry Long's death certificate lists Basin, Big Horn, Wyoming as his birth
place. His Obituary lists the Big Horn Basin, Wyoming. The 1900 census lists
Montana as his birth place, the 1910, 1920, and 1930 censuses list Idaho as his
birth place. Hardly conclusive
William Long in the 1880 lists his birth place as Pennsylvania. In the 1870 and 1860 census his birthplace is also listed as Pennsylvania. His parent's birth places in the 1880, 1870, and 1850 censuses are also listed as Pennsylvania. William Long is listed in the 1860 census of Springfield, Fayette Co., PA. In William Long's 1886 military record his birth place is listed as La Fayette Co., PA, while in his 1891 record his birth place is listed as Fayette Co., PA.
I think this pretty well sums up the census, birthplace, and parents issue.
All the best.
Bob
William Long in the 1880 lists his birth place as Pennsylvania. In the 1870 and 1860 census his birthplace is also listed as Pennsylvania. His parent's birth places in the 1880, 1870, and 1850 censuses are also listed as Pennsylvania. William Long is listed in the 1860 census of Springfield, Fayette Co., PA. In William Long's 1886 military record his birth place is listed as La Fayette Co., PA, while in his 1891 record his birth place is listed as Fayette Co., PA.
I think this pretty well sums up the census, birthplace, and parents issue.
All the best.
Bob
Ghosttown Bob | 9:29 p.m. March 2, 2009
Correction: "His age on his birth record probably did come from him."
should read: "His age on his marriage record probably did come from
him."
Jerry Nickle | 10:21 p.m. March 2, 2009
Bob
How could your man be born in 1865 and be on the 1860 census record? Oh please give me a break.
How could your man be born in 1865 and be on the 1860 census record? Oh please give me a break.
Anonymous | 12:11 a.m. March 3, 2009
Little Buck,
Julia Ann Long was born April 1853 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania, Minnie Long was born June 1860 in Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania, that means William Long was born between 1854 and 1859, somewhere in Pennsylvania, but not necessarily in Fayette County, Pennsylvania. In the 1860 census, Amelia, Washington, Franklin, Julia and William are living with their grandmother Catharine Long in Springfield, Fayette County, Pennsylvania.
Julia Ann Long was born April 1853 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania, Minnie Long was born June 1860 in Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania, that means William Long was born between 1854 and 1859, somewhere in Pennsylvania, but not necessarily in Fayette County, Pennsylvania. In the 1860 census, Amelia, Washington, Franklin, Julia and William are living with their grandmother Catharine Long in Springfield, Fayette County, Pennsylvania.
AC | 9:03 a.m. March 3, 2009
Some of us are truly amazed at what can be learned about someone else's
character, without even digging a hole.
AC
AC
Ghosttown Bob | 11:38 a.m. March 3, 2009
Jerry: I was just stating what was on the records - what he, or his family
claimed was his age. I'm not claiming he was born in 1865.
Anonymous - I have not called you names, are you so little that you have to result to name calling? In the 1860 census Amelia, Washington, Franklin, Julia and William are living with their parents, Alexander and Mary J. Long in Springfield, Fayette County, PA. Catherine Long their grandmother is living with the family as is an Ercillia Long age 15. This was on Aug. 15 1860. Minnie Long had not been born yet. Are you sure you are not confusing Minnie Long, sister to William Long with Minnie daughter of Edwin and Emeline (Maria) Long Clergyman of Montgomery County, PA in 1860. This is much closer to Schuylkill County than Fayette County. This Edwin Long is found on the 1850 census of Owensburg, Schuylkill, County, Pennsylvania.
Anonymous - I have not called you names, are you so little that you have to result to name calling? In the 1860 census Amelia, Washington, Franklin, Julia and William are living with their parents, Alexander and Mary J. Long in Springfield, Fayette County, PA. Catherine Long their grandmother is living with the family as is an Ercillia Long age 15. This was on Aug. 15 1860. Minnie Long had not been born yet. Are you sure you are not confusing Minnie Long, sister to William Long with Minnie daughter of Edwin and Emeline (Maria) Long Clergyman of Montgomery County, PA in 1860. This is much closer to Schuylkill County than Fayette County. This Edwin Long is found on the 1850 census of Owensburg, Schuylkill, County, Pennsylvania.
Anonymous | 2:15 p.m. March 3, 2009
Ghosttown Bob,
Now how do you know Minnie hasnt been born yet? Alexander and Mary arent living in the household, in the 1860 census. Ercillia Long age 15, is Drucilla Long, granddaughter, of Nathan and Catherine Long, you will find her in the 1850 census, for Springfield, Fayette County, Pennsylvania. Now if you can place Minnie Long, daughter of Edwin Long, in Johnson County, Iowa in 1881, marring a man from neighboring Iowa County, I might have the wrong Minnie Long. As the 1880 census indicates, there is only one Minnie Long in all of Iowa, born in Pennsylvania, and she is the daughter of Alex and Mary Long, and Minnies daughter was born 29 Sep 1883, in Iowa City, Johnson County, Iowa, Im fairly confident I have the right Minnie. As for name calling, what do you call this? "Great Anon Y Mouse." I thought perhaps you wanted to be just like Dan, you not only make the same arguments he does, your beginning to sign off just like he does, All the best. (All the best, Dan Buck.)
Now how do you know Minnie hasnt been born yet? Alexander and Mary arent living in the household, in the 1860 census. Ercillia Long age 15, is Drucilla Long, granddaughter, of Nathan and Catherine Long, you will find her in the 1850 census, for Springfield, Fayette County, Pennsylvania. Now if you can place Minnie Long, daughter of Edwin Long, in Johnson County, Iowa in 1881, marring a man from neighboring Iowa County, I might have the wrong Minnie Long. As the 1880 census indicates, there is only one Minnie Long in all of Iowa, born in Pennsylvania, and she is the daughter of Alex and Mary Long, and Minnies daughter was born 29 Sep 1883, in Iowa City, Johnson County, Iowa, Im fairly confident I have the right Minnie. As for name calling, what do you call this? "Great Anon Y Mouse." I thought perhaps you wanted to be just like Dan, you not only make the same arguments he does, your beginning to sign off just like he does, All the best. (All the best, Dan Buck.)
Anonymous | 2:24 p.m. March 3, 2009
Ghosttown Bob | 12:36 p.m. Jan. 29, 2009
In your own words.
William Long was born 1857, possibly Feb. 2. in Springfield twp., Fayette County PA. His parents were Alexander and Mary Jane Long.
Around 1880 William moved with his sister Minnie to Ft. D.A. Russell, near Laramie, Wyo.
Henry Parker in 1880 was working as a Freighter and wagon master, hauling freight out from Laramie.
18th Infantry was transferred from Northern Montana to Ft. Leavenworth Kansas. Their route took them through Laramie, Wyo. and Ft. D.A. Russell to the railroad.
In your own words.
William Long was born 1857, possibly Feb. 2. in Springfield twp., Fayette County PA. His parents were Alexander and Mary Jane Long.
Around 1880 William moved with his sister Minnie to Ft. D.A. Russell, near Laramie, Wyo.
Henry Parker in 1880 was working as a Freighter and wagon master, hauling freight out from Laramie.
18th Infantry was transferred from Northern Montana to Ft. Leavenworth Kansas. Their route took them through Laramie, Wyo. and Ft. D.A. Russell to the railroad.
Anonymous | 2:26 p.m. March 3, 2009
Continued
Lets see, you knew all along that William Longs mothers name was Mary Ann Stafford Long???
William and Minnie Long were in census district 26, which included Camp Carlin, before June 2, 1880, when the census was taken. Of course, when one looks at the census, it only shows Fort. D. A. Russell, District 26.
1880 United States Federal Census > Wyoming > Laramie > Fort D A Russell > District 26
Henry Parker was wagon master at Camp Carlin, in 1880, the railroad at Cheyenne would have been a little closer than the one at Laramie. Now why would the 18th Infantry pass through Laramie, Wyoming, when they came down from Northern Montana? Ill bet, they passed through Fort Laramie first, then Fort D. A. Russell, then caught a train at Cheyenne, Wyoming.
Bob, the evidence is overwhelming, you didnt do the research.
Lets see, you knew all along that William Longs mothers name was Mary Ann Stafford Long???
William and Minnie Long were in census district 26, which included Camp Carlin, before June 2, 1880, when the census was taken. Of course, when one looks at the census, it only shows Fort. D. A. Russell, District 26.
1880 United States Federal Census > Wyoming > Laramie > Fort D A Russell > District 26
Henry Parker was wagon master at Camp Carlin, in 1880, the railroad at Cheyenne would have been a little closer than the one at Laramie. Now why would the 18th Infantry pass through Laramie, Wyoming, when they came down from Northern Montana? Ill bet, they passed through Fort Laramie first, then Fort D. A. Russell, then caught a train at Cheyenne, Wyoming.
Bob, the evidence is overwhelming, you didnt do the research.
A C | 2:47 p.m. March 3, 2009
Having just received Mrs. Ernst's newest book, I was pleased to read Mr.
Buck's opinions, in the "forward" section. Some things just
won't change.
Your time won't be wasted by my opinions of detail accuracy, others will do a much better job of that.
But I will not close without pointing out a small detail, that I believe was brought to Mrs. Ernst's attention a few years ago. Since it involves a lady well known to the Ernst & Buck teams, it needs to be shared.
Page 222 lists BOOKS & ARTICLES. Item 8 is shown as follows:
Betenson, Lula Parker. BUTCH CASSIDY, MY BROTHER. Salt Lake City, Utah: Brigham Young University Press, 1984. I find it amazing that Mrs. Betenson is still causing issues for some of our historians.
Lula Parker Betenson passed away May 5, 1980. Her book noted above, I believe was published in 1975. Not 1984.
A C
Your time won't be wasted by my opinions of detail accuracy, others will do a much better job of that.
But I will not close without pointing out a small detail, that I believe was brought to Mrs. Ernst's attention a few years ago. Since it involves a lady well known to the Ernst & Buck teams, it needs to be shared.
Page 222 lists BOOKS & ARTICLES. Item 8 is shown as follows:
Betenson, Lula Parker. BUTCH CASSIDY, MY BROTHER. Salt Lake City, Utah: Brigham Young University Press, 1984. I find it amazing that Mrs. Betenson is still causing issues for some of our historians.
Lula Parker Betenson passed away May 5, 1980. Her book noted above, I believe was published in 1975. Not 1984.
A C
Anonymous | 7:25 p.m. March 3, 2009
Having checked on the point AC made about the error in the publishing date of
Mrs. Betenson's book, by Donna Ernst, I have to agree. My copy of Mrs.
Betenson's book was published by Brigham Young University Press, Provo,
Utah, in 1975. Not in 1984, as stated by Mrs. Ernst. Even if Mrs. Ernst is
using a later printing, isn't it always professionally proper to use the
date of first publication, when referencing another book, as a source of
information?
One has to wonder, as a book like this is read, is what I am reading accurate information, or words used to fill a page.
Would someone please explain what a "historian" is actually required to do, when putting their book on the market.
Thank you.
One has to wonder, as a book like this is read, is what I am reading accurate information, or words used to fill a page.
Would someone please explain what a "historian" is actually required to do, when putting their book on the market.
Thank you.
Ghosttown Bob | 1:56 p.m. March 4, 2009
Anonymous:
Concerning the 1860 census - No, Minnie was not born as of Aug. 15, 1860 and yes Alexander Long age 40 Master Cooper born Penn. and Mary J. ---- age 39 born Penn. were living with the family in in Springfield Twp., Fayette Co., PA see page 757. Apparently you "didn't notice" that the house number and family number were not at the top of the page signifying that there were more entries on this family on the preceding page, or didn't notice that the Ancestry site had missed a page in their imaging. You could have easily crossed checked with either the microfilm edition of the census or Heritage Quest. (I think I am supposed to insert here: "You don't know what you are talking about." or "You lost give it a break" or "the evidence is overwhelming, you didnt do the research")
By the way does "I'll bet . . ." = "the evidence is overwhelming?"
Concerning the 1860 census - No, Minnie was not born as of Aug. 15, 1860 and yes Alexander Long age 40 Master Cooper born Penn. and Mary J. ---- age 39 born Penn. were living with the family in in Springfield Twp., Fayette Co., PA see page 757. Apparently you "didn't notice" that the house number and family number were not at the top of the page signifying that there were more entries on this family on the preceding page, or didn't notice that the Ancestry site had missed a page in their imaging. You could have easily crossed checked with either the microfilm edition of the census or Heritage Quest. (I think I am supposed to insert here: "You don't know what you are talking about." or "You lost give it a break" or "the evidence is overwhelming, you didnt do the research")
By the way does "I'll bet . . ." = "the evidence is overwhelming?"
Ghosttown Bob | 2:10 p.m. March 4, 2009
"1880 United States Federal Census > Wyoming > Laramie > Fort D A
Russell > District 26" must mean you know how to use the Ancestry
site.
What would Alexander and Mary Jane Long be doing in Schuylkill County, on the other side of Pennsylvania giving birth to Minnie when their house was in Fayette County?
This seems to be getting rather far afield from the main topic of William Henry Long unless you are trying to prove how good a researcher you are. Anonymous do you feel so threatened by my findings that you have to prove your point by overwhelming the topic with useless information to show how much research you have done?
What would Alexander and Mary Jane Long be doing in Schuylkill County, on the other side of Pennsylvania giving birth to Minnie when their house was in Fayette County?
This seems to be getting rather far afield from the main topic of William Henry Long unless you are trying to prove how good a researcher you are. Anonymous do you feel so threatened by my findings that you have to prove your point by overwhelming the topic with useless information to show how much research you have done?
Ghosttown Bob | 2:18 p.m. March 4, 2009
I feel bad that Horse Creek Cowboy was chased off this comment board like Dan
Buck. I found HCC's comments some of the more insightful that I have seen.
He is obviously informed. I, for one would like to hear more of what he has to
say.
Anonymous | 3:12 p.m. March 4, 2009
"I feel bad that Horse Creek Cowboy was chased off this comment board like
Dan Buck."
You should feel good Mr. GTB, you are only half wrong.
You should feel good Mr. GTB, you are only half wrong.
The Shadow | 3:57 p.m. March 4, 2009
It is impossible to have a meaningful discussion with Dan Buck if you disagree
with him. No one is going to take his abuse. Show us where Dan Buck has engaged
with someone he disagrees with respect and dignity. It cant be done.
A C | 4:31 p.m. March 4, 2009
Mr. GTB says, "I feel bad that Horse Creek Cowboy was chased off this
comment board like Dan Buck."
Mr. GTB. On a previous "comment board" , a lady, who was a member of the Parker family was "chased off" by your Daniel Buck, when he informed her, he knew more about her family than she did. (of course we now know what he knew, was based on what had "reportedly" been said.)
How "bad" do you feel for her, GTB? Would like more examples, Sir?
Mr. Buck was chased off, because most are tied of his tactics. Period.
A C
Mr. GTB. On a previous "comment board" , a lady, who was a member of the Parker family was "chased off" by your Daniel Buck, when he informed her, he knew more about her family than she did. (of course we now know what he knew, was based on what had "reportedly" been said.)
How "bad" do you feel for her, GTB? Would like more examples, Sir?
Mr. Buck was chased off, because most are tied of his tactics. Period.
A C
Jerry Nickle | 5:28 p.m. March 4, 2009
GTB writes
This seems to be getting rather far afield from the main topic of William Henry Long
You are absolutly right. What does your army deserter have to do with this subject.
Will Dan Buck show us the three 1901 Argintina documets?
Will he show us the reciept for Butchs Feb 4, 1901 purchase of the beautiful gold watch for Etta?
He can use an alies like another person I know or he can post through you.
This seems to be getting rather far afield from the main topic of William Henry Long
You are absolutly right. What does your army deserter have to do with this subject.
Will Dan Buck show us the three 1901 Argintina documets?
Will he show us the reciept for Butchs Feb 4, 1901 purchase of the beautiful gold watch for Etta?
He can use an alies like another person I know or he can post through you.
Queen Ann | 5:50 p.m. March 4, 2009
First GTB you are to be admired for taking on the job of apparent spokesman and
defender of Mr. Buck. As I do have feelings of sympathy for you, I offer my
help.
Being fair to you, the subject of how he has made a habit of belittling those who don't agee with him, has been somewhat covered in previous postings and needs no further comment.
To give you a chance, let us try a different approach. Is it not a fair assumption that one who is to be honored and treated with respect, would have done something in their lives to earn these this? I think most would agree that is fair, wouldn't you? This gives you a chance to do something that has not been shown on a number of previous comment boards. Mr. Buck has many times been asked this question, (with no response) now here is your chance to share this information.
What do you consider Mr. Buck's greatest accomplishment to be? And I know you will be fair to all.
Queen Ann
Being fair to you, the subject of how he has made a habit of belittling those who don't agee with him, has been somewhat covered in previous postings and needs no further comment.
To give you a chance, let us try a different approach. Is it not a fair assumption that one who is to be honored and treated with respect, would have done something in their lives to earn these this? I think most would agree that is fair, wouldn't you? This gives you a chance to do something that has not been shown on a number of previous comment boards. Mr. Buck has many times been asked this question, (with no response) now here is your chance to share this information.
What do you consider Mr. Buck's greatest accomplishment to be? And I know you will be fair to all.
Queen Ann
Anonymous | 8:17 p.m. March 4, 2009
Ghosttown Bob |
Do you recall your post on the blog 12:36 p.m. Jan. 29, 2009?
Now that the hoopla has died down about William Henry Long, it is about time to reveal real story.
Bob, youre the one who told us about the Long family, Alexander, Mary Jane, Julia Ann, William, Minnie and Henry Parker. Now that you actually know something about William Long, it is about time to reveal the true story.
Do you recall your post on the blog 12:36 p.m. Jan. 29, 2009?
Now that the hoopla has died down about William Henry Long, it is about time to reveal real story.
Bob, youre the one who told us about the Long family, Alexander, Mary Jane, Julia Ann, William, Minnie and Henry Parker. Now that you actually know something about William Long, it is about time to reveal the true story.
Ghosttown Bob | 7:52 a.m. March 5, 2009
Gee . . . I think I have just gone through an "intervention" . . . Is
this the part where we do the group hug??
Ghosttown Bob | 8:21 a.m. March 5, 2009
Queen Ann: With all due respect I am not a spokesman or a defender of Dan Buck.
I have never personally spoken with him, and other that what has been on these
boards have never exchanged anything with him. I did once write an email to him
which he did not answer. Actually I disagree with several of his theories.
Personally I found the book the he and his wife wrote difficult to read, and
lacking in proper documentation. It read more like a travel log, jumping from
one subject to another than historical research. However Dan's other
articles are much better written and documented.
Frankly, I am more of a dis-interested bystander in this whole Dan Buck vs the mob thing going on here. Have you actually gone back and read the things said about Dan? The attacks are personal. Then HCC gets on here, makes a few insightful comments, and the very first reply to him has more personal attacks: "Horse C C has described what makes for a good horse race... Get a grip HorseCC...good luck in the third grade." among others.
Frankly, I am more of a dis-interested bystander in this whole Dan Buck vs the mob thing going on here. Have you actually gone back and read the things said about Dan? The attacks are personal. Then HCC gets on here, makes a few insightful comments, and the very first reply to him has more personal attacks: "Horse C C has described what makes for a good horse race... Get a grip HorseCC...good luck in the third grade." among others.
Anonymous | 8:47 a.m. March 5, 2009
Ghosttown Bob,
Evidently Bob, you prefer the low ground, attacking rather than defending yourself. One such as yourself must avoid being baited into a defenseless position. Myself, I prefer to defend the high ground and bait my advisory into a defenseless position. As I expected, you jumped on the 1860 census, no mention of Camp Carlin, Laramie or Henry Parker. Its rather obvious, dont you think Bob, attacking the 1860 census is a diversionary tactic, employed several times by you to evade a legitimate question. To date, you have provided nothing, but census information. When I posted the factual information 11:34 a.m. Feb. 26, 2009, you then posted 9:52 p.m. Feb. 28, 2009 claiming you already knew it, B/S. You may have factual information about the Longs and Parkers now, you certainly didnt in the beginning. Youve once again proven some people just can not resist telling how smart they are and how dumb we are, every time you respond to my posts, it tells us more about you and what you really know about William Henry Long, than you realize.
Evidently Bob, you prefer the low ground, attacking rather than defending yourself. One such as yourself must avoid being baited into a defenseless position. Myself, I prefer to defend the high ground and bait my advisory into a defenseless position. As I expected, you jumped on the 1860 census, no mention of Camp Carlin, Laramie or Henry Parker. Its rather obvious, dont you think Bob, attacking the 1860 census is a diversionary tactic, employed several times by you to evade a legitimate question. To date, you have provided nothing, but census information. When I posted the factual information 11:34 a.m. Feb. 26, 2009, you then posted 9:52 p.m. Feb. 28, 2009 claiming you already knew it, B/S. You may have factual information about the Longs and Parkers now, you certainly didnt in the beginning. Youve once again proven some people just can not resist telling how smart they are and how dumb we are, every time you respond to my posts, it tells us more about you and what you really know about William Henry Long, than you realize.
Ghosttown Bob | 9:17 a.m. March 5, 2009
You ask what Dan Buck's greatest accomplishment has been. Well, he has made
public a wealth documentation on Robert Parker and Harry Longabaugh in South
America using South American sources. Many of these have never been seen in
English translation before. I realize that some of these documents Jerry and
others have disputed as to their authenticity, that is still open for debate,
most are, however public documents and can be verified. I might disagree with
his conclusions in those documents but I don't think that Dan Buckknowingly
used false documents. Dan has brought to light a part of Parker's and
Longabaugh's lives that was largely unknown before.
Am I a fan of Bucks? Not necessarily, but I do respect him for what he has found.
Am I a fan of Bucks? Not necessarily, but I do respect him for what he has found.
Anonymous | 10:49 a.m. March 5, 2009
Ghosttown Bob,
You seem to be allergic to criticism. Not wanting to cause you to blow a fuse, I agree, its time to move on.
I must say, I certainly have enjoyed our exchange, although, you provided nothing useful or factual in proving whether William Long and William Henry Long were one and the same. Your probably a decent fellow.
You seem to be allergic to criticism. Not wanting to cause you to blow a fuse, I agree, its time to move on.
I must say, I certainly have enjoyed our exchange, although, you provided nothing useful or factual in proving whether William Long and William Henry Long were one and the same. Your probably a decent fellow.
Jerry Nickle | 11:55 a.m. March 5, 2009
This Saturday March 7, with out camera, we are going to Alma New Mexico where
Butch had a salon and worked at the nearby W S ranch. We are then going to
Frisco New Mexico. It was forty miles from Frisco that Pinkerton detective
Charlie Siringo discovered Butch spent the winter of 1900-1901. Butch was here
on Feb 4, 1901 not in New York City buying a beautiful gold watch for Etta. We
will go through Wilcox Arizona and try and find where Pinkerton informant Blake
Graham met Butch In May 1901. Maybe there is a historical marker there. We will
travel through Globe Arizona where Butch went after he met Graham. After
leaving Globe Butch went north and met up with Sundance and the gang robbed the
train at Wagner Montana on July 3, 1901.
It has been falsely reported Butch was in Argentina during this time.
It has been falsely reported Butch was in Argentina during this time.
a non a mouse | 12:35 p.m. March 5, 2009
"Am I a fan of Bucks? Not necessarily, but I do respect him for what he has
found.", says GTB.
If I understand you correctly, Mr. GTB, Mr. Buck collects newspapers, he also apparently keeps records of what some relatives of our "Outlaw" friends have "reportedly" said. (THAT MEANS THEY MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE ACTUALLY EVER SAID IT) He also keeps very accurate records of his (claimed) phone interviews, as has been shown, with, was it Mrs. Charter. Last, but not least (this is what probably elavated him to the level of "foremost authority"), he was able to remove the remains of Mr. Zimmer, in his fabled trek to SO. Am., where he was successful. Now I got it.
Oh GTB, did you mean to address his "tactics" with those that might not agree with him, or you might deal with that at a later time.
It would seem to some, these comments have nothing to do with Mr. Buck's personal life, they appear to be directed at what he has done as a (professional?) historian, publishing material for sale to the public.
A N A M
If I understand you correctly, Mr. GTB, Mr. Buck collects newspapers, he also apparently keeps records of what some relatives of our "Outlaw" friends have "reportedly" said. (THAT MEANS THEY MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE ACTUALLY EVER SAID IT) He also keeps very accurate records of his (claimed) phone interviews, as has been shown, with, was it Mrs. Charter. Last, but not least (this is what probably elavated him to the level of "foremost authority"), he was able to remove the remains of Mr. Zimmer, in his fabled trek to SO. Am., where he was successful. Now I got it.
Oh GTB, did you mean to address his "tactics" with those that might not agree with him, or you might deal with that at a later time.
It would seem to some, these comments have nothing to do with Mr. Buck's personal life, they appear to be directed at what he has done as a (professional?) historian, publishing material for sale to the public.
A N A M
Jerry Nickle | 1:42 p.m. March 5, 2009
It cannot be denied Dan Buck did make some very important contributions. We
that are interested in this subject should realize he is a very important part
of this discussion. Maybe the day will come when we, including Dan Buck, can
forget the past differences and move on.
Ghosttown Bob | 2:40 p.m. March 5, 2009
Well said, Jerry.
Thanks
Thanks
Anonymous | 2:43 p.m. March 5, 2009
We quote the GTB. "I feel bad that Horse Creek Cowboy was chased off this
comment board like Dan Buck. I found HCC's comments some of the more
insightful that I have seen. He is obviously informed. I, for one would like to
hear more of what he has to say."
HCC. On a previous blog out of a total of 275 posts, Mr. Buck posted 43 times, he belittled, made fun of and assailed anyone and everyone, who dared an opinion. He then continually referred to his numerous web sites, where he belittles, makes fun of and assails everyone. What goes around, comes around.
Mr. GTB, Are the above comments the ones you are referring too, that you would like to see more of?
HCC. On a previous blog out of a total of 275 posts, Mr. Buck posted 43 times, he belittled, made fun of and assailed anyone and everyone, who dared an opinion. He then continually referred to his numerous web sites, where he belittles, makes fun of and assails everyone. What goes around, comes around.
Mr. GTB, Are the above comments the ones you are referring too, that you would like to see more of?
Jerry Nickle | 3:30 p.m. March 5, 2009
Dan Buck made some important contributions yes but the three 1901 Argentina
documents and the Feb 4, 1901 receipt for the gold watch hurt his credibility.
He made some other South American discoveries that have benefited but he should
understand he is not the leading expert on the subject. He needs an attitude
adjustment.
I am the first person to realize Butch did not go to Argentina in 1901. Every writer since Charles Kelly including Dan Buck believed he did. Should Dan Buck now relinquish the leading expert title to me?
I am the first person to realize Butch did not go to Argentina in 1901. Every writer since Charles Kelly including Dan Buck believed he did. Should Dan Buck now relinquish the leading expert title to me?
Jerry Nickle | 3:47 p.m. March 5, 2009
GTB
If Anonymous had not been in my corner you would have beat me to death with your army deserter. I dont have the ability to do genealogy research like you do. The best way to handle you and Dan Bucks criticism is know the subject better than you two do. We are doing pretty well.
If Anonymous had not been in my corner you would have beat me to death with your army deserter. I dont have the ability to do genealogy research like you do. The best way to handle you and Dan Bucks criticism is know the subject better than you two do. We are doing pretty well.
Anonymous | 4:18 p.m. March 5, 2009
Someone said, "Dan Buck needs an attitude adjustment." A more astute
diagnosis has never been made.
Now would anyone care to venture (roughly) when this "adjustment" will take place?
Now would anyone care to venture (roughly) when this "adjustment" will take place?
Ghosttown Bob | 8:17 a.m. March 6, 2009
Anon I was referring to Horse Creek Cowboy, not Dan Buck. Why did your comments
always revert back to Buck? Do you feel that the only way your theory can
succeed is by completely discrediting Buck? If you want to discredit Dan's
research, discredit his research, don't just sit and trade insults with
him, it will get you nowhere. It just makes you all look bad.
Have you gone back and really looked at Buck's comments and what others have said about him? It looks to me like you all have been rolling around in the mud and are all in need of a good shower.
Maybe with spring approaching the rains will come and wash you all clean.
Have you gone back and really looked at Buck's comments and what others have said about him? It looks to me like you all have been rolling around in the mud and are all in need of a good shower.
Maybe with spring approaching the rains will come and wash you all clean.
Ghosttown Bob | 8:36 a.m. March 6, 2009
Jerry
Well you do have the advantage of having a full time researcher on your side. Since I have a life, I don't ever spend more that a half hour a day or so on this. I am blessed however by having access to a plethora of sources. Anon. has little or no idea of how much I have collected. We could debate for a year and not run out of material. I suspect, though, that it has been more fun for me than it has been for her.
I know with the construction business down you must have a lot of extra time on your hands and you can direct your resources to your project. I just hope that you realize that in the end it will all be in vain. With what little you have to go on, without DNA evidence your hoped for "peer review" will never materialize. The critics will eat you alive.
Pier: "Sitting on the dock of the bay. . . wasting time hmmm . . . wasting time." (Otis Redding)
Well you do have the advantage of having a full time researcher on your side. Since I have a life, I don't ever spend more that a half hour a day or so on this. I am blessed however by having access to a plethora of sources. Anon. has little or no idea of how much I have collected. We could debate for a year and not run out of material. I suspect, though, that it has been more fun for me than it has been for her.
I know with the construction business down you must have a lot of extra time on your hands and you can direct your resources to your project. I just hope that you realize that in the end it will all be in vain. With what little you have to go on, without DNA evidence your hoped for "peer review" will never materialize. The critics will eat you alive.
Pier: "Sitting on the dock of the bay. . . wasting time hmmm . . . wasting time." (Otis Redding)
Ghosttown Bob | 8:48 a.m. March 6, 2009
Jerry
You said: "Dan Buck made some important contributions yes but the three 1901 Argentina documents and the Feb 4, 1901 receipt for the gold watch hurt his credibility."
I think this is an important area of inquiry that needs to be followed up on. Not to necessarily discredit Dan, but to find the truth. It should be made the subject of honest historical inquiry. As for Dan Buck or you being the leading authority. That is not decided by either you or him, but by others as you present your findings and gain credibility. Jerry, I don't intend for this to be insulting or derogatory, but as advice, please, if you go about this in the wrong way you will just be seen as another crackpot, documentary and all.
You said: "Dan Buck made some important contributions yes but the three 1901 Argentina documents and the Feb 4, 1901 receipt for the gold watch hurt his credibility."
I think this is an important area of inquiry that needs to be followed up on. Not to necessarily discredit Dan, but to find the truth. It should be made the subject of honest historical inquiry. As for Dan Buck or you being the leading authority. That is not decided by either you or him, but by others as you present your findings and gain credibility. Jerry, I don't intend for this to be insulting or derogatory, but as advice, please, if you go about this in the wrong way you will just be seen as another crackpot, documentary and all.
Anonymous | 9:39 a.m. March 6, 2009
"It looks to me like you all have been rolling around in the mud and are
all in need of a good shower." Mr. GTB sayeth.
Then he follows with: Pier: "Sitting on the dock of the bay. . . wasting time hmmm . . . wasting time." (Otis Redding)
Do we see a "follow the leader" pattern here? You say others need a cleansing shower to remove the mud, then you choose to point out the spelling error by Mr. Nickle. Real class.
Be sure and use soap GTB Iver.
Then he follows with: Pier: "Sitting on the dock of the bay. . . wasting time hmmm . . . wasting time." (Otis Redding)
Do we see a "follow the leader" pattern here? You say others need a cleansing shower to remove the mud, then you choose to point out the spelling error by Mr. Nickle. Real class.
Be sure and use soap GTB Iver.
Jerry Nickle | 11:36 a.m. March 6, 2009
GTB
I Completely agree with you. I hope we can all move forward together and discuss or differences in friendly terms. I dont have all the answers, but maybe I can contribute something. Lets have fun not a war of words.
We are off to Alma tomorrow to take a few pictures and see if we can find the WS ranch. I am going to take this newspaper article and use it to become squinted with the locals there. I am hoping they will show us the area. When I get back I will report what found here.
Ghosttown Bob | 1:22 p.m. March 6, 2009
Thanks Jerry, I think there is much that we can discuss in a fruitful way that
will help everyone arrive at the truth. Sorry about the Pier/Peer allusion - I
was using it to prove a point.
Anon. This is a good example of what I have been talking about here. I made a good-natured jab. You then jumped all over it and was offended when no offense was intended. You expect from others what you do not expect from yourself. You seem to take yourself too seriously. I seem to remember that when I left the Ft. off of Ft. Laramie, you jumped all over it trying to prove your point. You could have just asked did you mean Laramie, or Ft. Laramie? Then the discussion could have continued. Instead it cut off any chance of a good discussion.
Anonymous, I feel no ill will towards you or any of Jerry's other supporters. I may think you are dead wrong however.
By the way I use Irish Spring, what do you use??
Anon. This is a good example of what I have been talking about here. I made a good-natured jab. You then jumped all over it and was offended when no offense was intended. You expect from others what you do not expect from yourself. You seem to take yourself too seriously. I seem to remember that when I left the Ft. off of Ft. Laramie, you jumped all over it trying to prove your point. You could have just asked did you mean Laramie, or Ft. Laramie? Then the discussion could have continued. Instead it cut off any chance of a good discussion.
Anonymous, I feel no ill will towards you or any of Jerry's other supporters. I may think you are dead wrong however.
By the way I use Irish Spring, what do you use??
Anonymous | 1:57 p.m. March 6, 2009
Ghosttown Bob
You would have been better served having a full time researcher. Your access to a plethora of sources, failed you miserable. Ft. D.A. Russell, near Laramie, Wyo.???
Henry Parker in 1880 was working as a Freighter and wagon master, hauling freight out from Laramie.??? 18th Infantry was transferred from Northern Montana to Ft. Leavenworth Kansas. Their route took them through Laramie, Wyo. and Ft. D.A. Russell to the railroad.??? Etc. Etc. Etc. Revision to my last post 10:49 a.m. March 5, 2009,
you provided nothing useful or factual, period. No doubt probably a slipmouth.
You would have been better served having a full time researcher. Your access to a plethora of sources, failed you miserable. Ft. D.A. Russell, near Laramie, Wyo.???
Henry Parker in 1880 was working as a Freighter and wagon master, hauling freight out from Laramie.??? 18th Infantry was transferred from Northern Montana to Ft. Leavenworth Kansas. Their route took them through Laramie, Wyo. and Ft. D.A. Russell to the railroad.??? Etc. Etc. Etc. Revision to my last post 10:49 a.m. March 5, 2009,
you provided nothing useful or factual, period. No doubt probably a slipmouth.
Anonymous | 2:52 p.m. March 6, 2009
Mr. GTB, do you have a clue as to how many different folk have posted on this
babble board, under "anon"? This "one" was unaware of your
"Ft" Laramie comment. I have tried to avoid your
"information", which you have been "jabbing" Jerry with.
Some feel your "jabbing" had the sole purpose of showing how wrong
Jerry is with his claim. Over and over.
You have put a lot of effort into showing how wrong Jerry is. Wrong he may be. But don't you feel the entire hand should be dealt, before you grab the pot?
If you think "soap" will wash off your defending one who has made a career of bad-mouthing those who disagree with him, may I suggest "lye" soap.
There have been numerous comments made, suggesting you give Jerry a chance. If he is wrong, the facts will determine it, not you or Buck. As has been shown, Buck has proven something. What he is, what he knows and what he doesn't know. Why not allow Jerry the same courtesy? That is all I ask.
If you locate the correct Ft. Lar "anom", jab him. Better wait for DNA though.
A Non
You have put a lot of effort into showing how wrong Jerry is. Wrong he may be. But don't you feel the entire hand should be dealt, before you grab the pot?
If you think "soap" will wash off your defending one who has made a career of bad-mouthing those who disagree with him, may I suggest "lye" soap.
There have been numerous comments made, suggesting you give Jerry a chance. If he is wrong, the facts will determine it, not you or Buck. As has been shown, Buck has proven something. What he is, what he knows and what he doesn't know. Why not allow Jerry the same courtesy? That is all I ask.
If you locate the correct Ft. Lar "anom", jab him. Better wait for DNA though.
A Non
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Go ahead and tell us about Minnie Long, I'm interested.
HCC: thanks for the info on Camp Carlin. Yes, Camp Carlin was the supply depot for most of the Forts in Northern Wyoming and Montana, including the Big Horn Basin. All places William Long was apparently familiar with.