Deseret News | Man hurt when gun blasts toilet

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Man hurt when gun blasts toilet

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BuggerHook | 5:37 a.m. Jan. 17, 2009

The guy probably tried to catch the gun as it was falling and pulled the trigger. There's no way it would go off by striking the ground.

too long | 6:36 a.m. Jan. 17, 2009

This story has been a headline of Davis County news for three days. Could you please just move on? There has got to be more news out there!!

Broken Up | 8:55 a.m. Jan. 17, 2009

To: too long 6:36 - If you will notice this story comes up under the "Most commented" section, which indicates the story still has "legs."

Unless you are mayor of centerville or town historian why don't you let this story die a peaceful death, on it's own, unlike that poor, defenseless toilet at Carl.....Jr's.....I'm sorry for crying.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 5:55 p.m. Jan. 17, 2009

These concealed carry wierdos are filled with mental illness. I would be my bottom dollar this guy chickened out at the last minute when trying to commit suicide then had a lot of explaining to do about how the toilet got shot. This dude needs a full psychiatric evaluation as do all concealed carry wierdos!

Beverly | 11:05 p.m. Jan. 17, 2009

Re-- anonymous,
It looks like you are pretty whacked yourself to make a judgment of someone you do not know. Maybe you need to check yourself in and get off the streets.

Anonymous | 11:18 p.m. Jan. 17, 2009

I used a hammer and nail to chip off built up calcium deposits on our toilet...not a good idea...a small hole developed and husband had to replace toilet. And I'm not from Utah. Had a good laugh from this story anyway.

Against concealed carrying | 2:00 a.m. Jan. 18, 2009

There should be no such thing as a concealed weapons permit. Carrying a concealed firearm needs to be a one-way ticket to jail.

On the other hand, I do think that since firearms are legal and keeping and carrying is constitutionally protected, anyone who carries one in public should do so FULLY TRAINED, with a permit, and with the weapon visible.

If anybody besides law enforcement is going to be allowed to carry guns, I'd rather *know* who has one than have a bunch of people running around with weapons hidden in their pants and purses.

Dave | 10:43 a.m. Jan. 18, 2009

Has he never heard of the safety catch? If this guy is so irresponsible as to allow an accident like this to happen, his concealed weapon permit should be revoked.

Theenaray | 12:18 p.m. Jan. 18, 2009

You never know when a rogue toilet is going to attack. Luckily, this man was prepared.

Donna | 12:32 p.m. Jan. 18, 2009

Against concealed carrying.

Well, I hope you are never in a situation where you wished you had a gun to protect your loved ones from a crazed killer, or a mad dog. Who knows what the future may bring. Our world is not as safe as you may think. If a gun is handled properly than it can be a good thing. You need to get over your personal fear. Perhaps take a gun class. Learn the safety side of owning a gun. Don't make judgments of one person who had an accident.

Ramsees | 8:30 p.m. Jan. 18, 2009

I find it interesting that so many people on this thread are saying that the man shouldn't of had a round chambered in the gun. Of course there is a round in the gun. If your being assaulted you aren't just going to be able to say "hold on just a second I need to load my gun so I can protect myself." NO that ain't going to work If the gun went off there must have been a mechanical mistake. Nobody was hurt anyways so there is no reason to make a big deal.

Still against concealed carrying | 6:10 a.m. Jan. 19, 2009

I'd rather that nobody had to feel the need to carry a gun around. But since people apparently do, I say again that anybody who is going to carry a gun should be required to carry it VISIBLY. Never hidden.

I have a healthy fear of guns -- because I do know how to use them safely, and also how easy it is for deadly accidents to happen. This guy is lucky he isn't dead.

If people are going to be carrying guns around, I say it should be a requirement that the gun be visible, not concealed.

To Anonymous 5:55 | 6:44 a.m. Jan. 19, 2009

I know a number of very sane and intelligent people who have concealed carry permits, some of them pillars of the community (not in Utah - if that matters to some). Most don't carry regularly, only in circumstances when it makes sense.

You obviously have a tendency to jump to conclusions, have an irrational fear of guns, and have a vivid imagination of the unlikely.

You scare me more than the man in the story. Maybe you need an evaluation?

Anonymous | 9:59 a.m. Jan. 19, 2009

I heard of blowing up the toilet! but this is a little to literal for me.

Janice | 3:46 p.m. Jan. 19, 2009

Re: Still against concealed carrying

You said: should be required to carry it VISIBLY. Never hidden.

UMMM, That would not be too brilliant, because then it would make it easy for some crazed, wacko nut to confiscate the gun from you.

Alan T. | 7:34 p.m. Jan. 19, 2009

Owners of firearms have a great responsibility, and those who carry them concealed have even greater responsibility. One of those people making a serious mistake doesn't make it wrong, crazy, or paranoid for the rest of us to do so responsibly. For some, the act of going about in society being completely unarmed, and thus disadvantaged when it comes to preventing violent crime, is just as if not more irresponsible. I don't consider policeman to be hired henchmen that I pay to do the rough and dirty work - preventing crime and promoting lawful behavior is a burden which belongs to every responsible citizen; policeman are here to help, and just spend more time at it than the rest of us do. The man whose weapon discharged in the restaurant was *lucky* that the toilet and his arm were the only real casualties - but it defies logic to try to make this mean that firearms are bad, and concealed weapon permit holders are paranoid vigilantes, etc. Making a claim like that says more about *you* than the subject of your rant.

FirearmsInstructor | 8:00 p.m. Jan. 19, 2009

Ok first off, every state in the union has firearm carring citizens, legal or not is another story, how about cops being tased or shot by their partner, or even better a chief shooting himself last year. This kind of thing happens in every state, every day. It's old news, how about the stories of citizens who carry legally, doing good and preventing a crime. Don't hear anything negative about that do we!

protect your rights | 1:32 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009

CCW holders need to protect us from marauding loons like "what is my political affiliation." Maybe next we should take away your right to make stupid statements.

KahrGirl | 10:10 a.m. Jan. 22, 2009

I've read all the comments, and just like any topic, everyone has an opinion. I carry a Kahr PM9 and have a CHL in the state of Texas. This story has some humor to it due to the man being in a restroom, but I'm thankful that nobody was seriously hurt. Truth is this young man made a mistake and he was not honest with the police about what happened. The Kahr will only fire if the trigger is intentionally pulled. The design features an internal striker block and Kahr's have passed every drop test mandated on them. A Kahr is a safe firearm to carry for personal defense. I'm shocked the police took his word on what happened and blamed the hardware over user error. In most cases of accidental discharges, the error is human, not hardware.

Gun Nut Logic | 12:06 p.m. Jan. 22, 2009

Of course guns don't go off when you drop them!

Guns are subject to the most rigorous consumer product safety standards imagina...

...oh wait...

...that's right...

...guns are basically the only consumer product in America NOT regulated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

Thanks NRA!

Guns do NOT kill people | 7:02 p.m. Jan. 23, 2009

I always carry 'Condition 1'. Carrying without a round in the chamber is as good as leaving your weapon at home. Do you think a mugger will wait for you to draw, remove safety, rack slide, and fire?

IF the weapon has an external safety, I will leave it Condition 1, but never 'red'. Safety off. However my favorite concealed weapons have no manual safety, and are always Condition 1. If someone is trying to kill me or my family, I draw + pull trigger. Making it anymore complicated than that is asking for trouble.

Also, most modern autoloaders have a Drop Safety, including Kahrs. I highly doubt this happened as reported in the story. Barring a defective weapon, the firing pin should be stationary, even during a dramatic drop, until the trigger is pulled.

To: Anonymous, Jan 17th | 2:09 p.m. Jan. 26, 2009

Im still not understanding why we are weirdos. We are law abiding people just like any other person. Because we want to protect ourselves and our families we are considered weird. I will never understand that one. You are the U.S. citizen that wants everything given to to them. The same person who is ready to sue another citizen because the coffee was hot and they didn't know. This country is coming apart at the seams because of people like you who will just sit and watch this country waste away and blame everybody else. I hope for your sake you don't have a situation where you wish you had a firearm to protect yourself or your family.

Idaho Guy | 11:59 a.m. Jan. 27, 2009

Gun problems occure most often with guns not properly secured (gunsafe - proper holster). A $600.00 firearm and a $20.00 holster does not cut it. Alot of problems could be solved by a quality gunsafe and a quility holster. The gun should have never ben allowed to fall. Enough on the subject.

Stinky | 11:47 a.m. Jan. 28, 2009

I hope they nailed the jerk to the wall. There's no such thing as an accident with a gun. Concealed Carry Licenses are all about taking responsibility for your safety and NEVER even by negligence, endangering your neighbors.

And a Kahr doesn't go off on impact. He's lying about that. He fumbled the re-holster or was playing with the darned thing. He needs to lose his license for either one.

Prop | 1:14 p.m. Jan. 29, 2009

I think this story could most certainly be used in supporting an anti-gun campaign. Even though no one was seriously hurt and the man had the gun legally things could have been a lot worse.

CaputLapidis | 1:14 p.m. Feb. 3, 2009

I have drop tested Kahr PM40s several times in a facility designed for such tests and they have NEVER discharged except when the trigger is pulled. Glocks have never accidentally discharged, either. Not true of one or two other makes.

CaputLapidis | 1:19 p.m. Feb. 3, 2009

Dave writes

"Has he never heard of the safety catch? If this guy is so irresponsible as to allow an accident like this to happen, his concealed weapon permit should be revoked."

DAO pistols like the Kahr do not have "safety catches" or any externally mounted, mechanical positive safety device. They do have striker blocks and other safety features, however.

carl | 7:37 a.m. Feb. 5, 2009

"Having a concealed carry permit is one thing. Having a round chambered and ready to fire in the restroom of a fast food joint is unacceptable. I support the NRA and the right to carry, but come on, this guy could of killed somebody due to his carelessness. Who needs to have a round chambered and ready to fire???"

Answer ... anyone who carries for self-defense. Having to chamber a round can easily cost you your life when attacked. As was stated, the cops carry with a round chambered for the same reason.

The reality is that well over 2 million defensive handgun uses occur in this country each year. The number of accidental shootings pales in comparison to the number of lives saved by defensive use of handguns by law-abiding citizens who legally carry.
In fact, the police are seldom present when innocents are attacked by violent criminals and those would-be victims need to be responsible for protecting themselves. The police, according to many court rulings are under no obligation to protect you. The invariably arrive after the fact and end up drawing a chalk outline around the victim's body. Not a desirable outcome.

Mike Heath | 9:53 a.m. Feb. 8, 2009

Agree that quality guns like this one are drop proof as designed, and that the story is incomplete. Also amazed once again at the invective and hateful tone of people who have never survived or been exposed to deadly violence, and don't know what they are talking about. Truly, they are the ones who are frightening.

Bean | 10:51 a.m. Feb. 8, 2009

So according to my research (having never actually held the kahr P40) it is a double action gun, so even if it had been dropped the hammer wouldn't have been back, so it couldn't have been fired. I have experience with the kel-tec P3AT which is a similar gun. This gun is designed to be a long, hard trigger pull as the "safety" so it doesn't actually have a safety switch. I still don't see how this particular gun could have fired while dropped, I believe that even with a round chambered this gun is still double action because that is it's so called safety. (at least this is how it is with the kel-tec)

Variac | 2:27 p.m. Feb. 11, 2009

As an active firearms enthusiast with a knowledge of semi-auto handguns, I seriously find it hard to believe a KAHR pistol could fire a round after being dropped, the trigger and striker mechanism aren't capable of firing if the double action trigger is not pulled. This story is very suspicious.

Little Rock Rick | 12:50 p.m. Feb. 14, 2009

Have you ever tried Carl's Jr. gut bombs? I'm surprised there's an intact porcelein bowl left in the place!

Hey, has anyone thought of substituting toilet bowls for those expensive clay pigeons they have at the range? Just about every restaurant has AT LEAST 6-8 "targets" in the men's room! Might be fun to do a little shooting after dinner!

Proudly CCW | 11:29 a.m. Feb. 25, 2009

I have to agree with Variac et. al. If this guy was carrying a revolver made in 1938 and dropped it, yeah it could go off, but a Kahr?

As for the deluge of propaganda against CCWs I can only remit a statement that I confess is blatantly plagiarized from another gun forum on the internet. I wish I could take credit for this wisdom but I can't.

"When seconds mean the difference between life or death, the police are only minutes away".

Sid | 1:37 p.m. Feb. 26, 2009

Wouldn't have happened with a Glock.

Phil | 5:25 p.m. March 2, 2009

Trust me, the only way that gun fired was due to a jack-ass putting his finger on the trigger when he wasn't supposed to. I carry a Kahr P9 (same exact gun-different caliber), and it's a true double action-only pistol with a 15-20lb trigger pull. The only way that gun will go off is if you deliberately put that amount of pressure on the trigger. In the 1 in 100000000 chance that the pistol did fire by being dropped, and it can be duplicated and documented, this kid will be a VERY rich person by the end of the year. I've investigated numerous "accidental" discharges, and they ALL turned out to be user negligence...i.e. NEGLIGENT discharges!

CCW | 2:11 p.m. March 16, 2009

having a CCW in arkansas. i can state the majority of my neighbors are armed. while i carry a sig p220 i have dropped the gun numerous times. (mostly during a training excerise. and it has never fired. for those who think gun was not loaded, it was locked and loaded.) i am police officer, and at time were are required to "drop and shop" drop our current weapon and change to a different weapon, and through out all that if has never fired. for those who think all gun owners are "unsafe, stupid, etc..." need to think next time you are in need of the cops.

What are you talking about? | 2:02 p.m. April 7, 2009

I will not use blanket statements however, I will say that when I was in the military, I carried with one in the pipe. While off-duty and in civies (with my CHL) - one in the pipe. And now that I am retired from the military ... one in the pipe.
Most (not all but most) people that carry, either concealed or in the open, have one in the pipe. Why? Because you may not have both hands available to rack the slide to chamber a round...or you may not have TIME to chamber a round. And to repeat a post from earlier..."better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." It is OK to not know something...if you don't know, SHUT UP AND YOU MAY LEARN SOMETHING!!!

Karen | 3:30 a.m. April 13, 2009

I have no experience with guns myself, but to all those commenting on how irresponsible it is to ever have one in the chamber... I thought the point of a concealed carry license was so that you have the training to carry a loaded gun. There may be some instances where you'd have a minute to load it before disaster strikes, but I don't know many violent offenders who wait patiently while you load your gun. Concealed carry is so you can responsibly carry a loaded weapon, on safety and in a quality holster, and with a lot of caution. Am I being unreasonable here?

Edumacated Virginian.... | 12:44 a.m. April 15, 2009

This truly is the funniest thing I've seen all week...but something isn't being told to us here. The majority of modern firearms have drop safeties. I could pound on my Sig Sauer from 1979 with a sledge hammer or throw it off a building and it still wouldn't go off.

3 time Iraq Vet | 7:02 p.m. April 15, 2009

I am really trying to figure out why all these "Civilians" are figuring he was "Dumb" for keeping a round in the chamber!? That is how the GUN WORKS idiots!!! We Conceal Carry for Self Defense, round has to be in the chamber.. If you Tax Payers are worried about "Your Safety" try Driving with BOTH HANDS, not talking on your CELL PHONES!! Hell trying EATING PROPERLY. Most of the Anti Gun/Carry yokels are probably obese and will die from a Heart Attack before some one ACCIDENTALLY SHOOTS THEM... BTW, I am happy to serve your country

Wait & see | 9:58 a.m. April 16, 2009

For all you anti gun freaks out there,more people are killed by Doctors every year than by guns.
Check it out...
Remember these words well also...IF & WHENEVER WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE GUNS,YOU BETTER REMEMBER THIS WELL.
WHEN YOU ARE GETTING MUGGED,YOUR WIFE OR DAUGHTER GETTING BEAT & RAPED AND YOU CAN DO NOTHING ABOUT IT,OR YOUR TO CHICKEN TO ANYWAY,REMEMBER YOU WERE FOREWARNED THIS DAY WOULD COME.
YOU WILL NOT STOP THE CRIMINALS FROM GETTING FIREARMS.
IT'S LIKE A DOPEHEAD,THEY WILL STILL FIND IT BUD !!!!

Unreal | 3:52 p.m. April 16, 2009

Reading the comments here once again shows that there are a LOT of people out there that have no clue what so ever about concealed carry. So please, to all you that fit that catagory, don't get a concealed permit.

Leave it to those of us that have the guts to pull a loaded gun (yes, with a chambered round) when it's your college kid that the psycho is aiming at and planning to kill.

Sure, there will be some people that get a permit that shouldn't, but it's the same as drivers licenses. Some dummies you see on the road should never be allowed to drive.

Eric | 8:46 a.m. April 18, 2009

I proudly carry a glock 27 with a round chambered! Why? Because when seconds count..police are only minutes away

Eric | 8:51 a.m. April 18, 2009

I proudly carry a glock 27 with one in the pipe! Why? Because when seconds counts the police are only minutes away!

Oregunner | 2:14 a.m. April 24, 2009

Well, I don't know about that Kar but I could pound railroad spikes with my colt combat commander and not have to worry about it going off. (Not that I am willing to try)...I may try on an old toilet though..

Concealed Carrier | 7:27 p.m. May 4, 2009

Hey folks, if you don't like or approve of weapons...don't carry one. But if you just so happen to become one of the many who gets robbed or assaulted each year in the world, don't complain when it does. Carrying a handgun has nothing to do with your level of "self-esteem"; I carry and I have plenty of it - being a Marine may have something to do with it though. We don't carry to start fights or brandish when we don't agree with the views of another. We do it for our own protection and even yours should the event ever present itself - let's hope it never does, but you (we) should at least be ready. It makes no sense to download every time we use the restroom or buy a cheeseburger and I'm pretty sure he didn't carry his into the toilet because he was afraid of the TP! If you are going to download or leave it in your vehicle then you might as well leave it at home. You can count on the bad guy's gun being loaded and ready, shouldn't yours?

Disappointed by All of You | 7:48 a.m. May 7, 2009

...There is so much attention paid to this story, yet no one was killed...except the toilet. I've never read a story about the dozens of children that fall from shopping carts every day due to negligent parents that don't keep them belted in and monitor them closely. Some of these children die tragically from the short fall onto the concrete. Should we ban shopping carts or license people to be parents? Some of you think this guy should be incarcerated. Following that logic, why haven't we filled every jail with people that wrecked their car driving drunk. I remember reading back in 1995 that 45,000 people died in alcohol related car crashes in 1994. What is that number now? Listen, everyday we decide to get out of bed we are risking our lives. I carry concealed for the same reason I have fire insurance; I never want to have a fire and I practice good home fire prevention, but I still pay for insurance. Why? Because I never want to say, "If I had only..." Every person has not only the right, but the responsibility to protect his family by any means available.

I do the research..why can't you | 6:26 a.m. May 11, 2009

I'm not surprised to see the "43" number again. 43 more times likely....ok, let's look at the ORIGINAL report that produced that number. Every other source is simply a quote, or reference to, the original report.

"Discredited" is a strong word, but the study in question is indeed one of the most thoroughly discredited exercises in twisted statistics of the late 20th century. It compared all deaths by gunfire in two communities of similar size; one in Canada and the other in the United States. Under "guns killing householders", it included suicides, many of which typically are the so-called "rational suicide". This is what happens when an individual diagnosed with a terminal disease that brings a long, agonizing death chooses to depart life with dignity. (In some foreign countries, this process is assiste by state-approved euthanasia, not an option in the USA.)

The latest studies, by Professor John Lott, indicate that in well over 90% of attacks on armed citizens, NO blood is shed as the criminal either flees or submits to citizens arrest until the police arrive.

Criminals have a strange habit of making sure no police are around first!

Anonymous | 10:52 a.m. May 22, 2009

*facepalm* come on guys, do you really think this is just a guy marching around with a gun? *obviously* this is someone who works for the government. The police didnt question him? The police ALWAYS question people like that. This is not a guy that shot a toilet by letting it fall, this is a government officer that had a gunfight in a bathroom.

Fast draw? | 4:33 p.m. May 22, 2009

We are all assumming that this was an accident. Thats a possibility. Another is that he was practicing his draw and shot the toilet outright. He obviously gets marks for accuracy, its the citizenship of an act like this that has me concerned.

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Centerville Police Department

A toilet inside the Carl's Jr. in Centerville is in pieces after a man accidentally dropped his concealed weapon. A bullet struck the toilet, and the flying shrapnel wounded the man.