Deseret News | Reader comments: Lawmakers want to make homebuying easier for teachers

Reader comments
Homebuying for teachers

Underpaid teachers | 3:29 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Wouldn't it better serve teachers if they were paid better? Governmnment subsidized incomes border on socialism and we don't want that. Teachers as well as all workers should be able to pay for their needs on the income they earn, not subsidies. To pass such legislation opens the door to all workers demanding subsidized income. Teachers pay should be adjusted, not handouts from government to special jobs. This legislator is choosing an alternative to making employers responsible for wages to meet inflation and cost of living of its workers. This is a bad idea that favors a few, for now, to offset incompetence in our education system and how workers of Utah are being subverted and abused.

JMT | 5:09 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Very well intended but completely the wrong thing to do. Did we not learn anything from the subprime meltdown, which is ravaging our economy still?

The premise of the subprime is that the Federal Government through the Community Reinvestment Act pressured banks into making loans that people could not afford. They bought houses that were over their head. Once reality set in foreclosures went through the roof.

In this case a $15,000 loan is enough of a downpayment to purchase a $500,000 home! A $500,000 home has a monthly payment of over $3,500 on average.

Isn't it amazing what is going on here? We have a person who just manages to get elected and already forgetting the massive lessons of 2008. Like a dog to its vomit the Utah Legislature is playing games...again!

Please, give this guy a handful of candy for effort then kill his bill. Then give him either a basic course on economics or at least 30 minutes reading through the Deseret News archives on the subject of "Subprime meltdown." He might find it interesting.

Anonymous | 6:13 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

What a stupid idea. If the problem is with teacher compensation, then have teachers work full-time and then pay them for full-time work. We don't need the government building a Utah version of a home mortgage agency. Just another busybody legislator.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 7:14 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

I commend this legislator for trying to help. However, teachers get paid peanuts, period. When you start out making a salary in the low 30s, have a quiver full of kids, are told that your wife should stay home with said kids, and then you give 10% to your church that spells economic disaster. There's simply no discretionary income left, even for an "affordable" home of 167K. Most new teachers with, say, 5 years experience, can only afford a rent/mortage of around $500, but most mortages in Utah, esp. with the junk loans gone, will cost at a minimum of $1000 or more. Teachers just don't make enough. Period. "But we value what you do," says the Utah legislator. This kind of rhetoric makes me laugh. Watch their feet, not not their mouths! [Trans.: Watch what they do, not what they say!]

To anonymous | 7:31 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Your comment is entirely offensive. My daughter teaches elementary school here and puts in more hours a day than most people have any idea of. She rarely goes home before six, often comes in on Saturday, has conferences during the summer and comes in during the summer to prepare for the coming year. All for about $28,000 a year. On top of this, she spends about $2,000 for supplies and materials that her school won't cover.

Would you do this at your job?

Excuse me? | 7:53 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

I don't know what planet you're from, but $15,000 being a down payment on a $500,000 home? Wow, not in this market buddy. Try $15,000 on a $100,000 loan.

Higher pay for better quality | 8:06 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

I totally agree with better teacher pay, but along with that we need teachers to be supportive of higher standards for teachers and curriculum.

When the math core was being looked at, it was like pulling teach to get the standards raised due to teacher math educator opposition.

I heard excuses like, the kids are different today than yesteryear, they can't handle a return to higher standards. I think the opposition was an effort to protect teachers who were not able to teach the higher standards.

Higher pay yes, but also higher standards to go along with the higher pay.

anonymous | 8:09 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Agree. Pay the teachers enough to buy a home themselves, and while we're at it get a little common sense, and if you're going to have 3-4 children while you are just beginning to teach, get another job during the summer or watch the kids during that time and let your wife work.

This is real world 101 and that is what other people are forced to do in this economic times and teachers shouldn't be given special treatment.

Anonymous | 8:11 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

The interest on a $15,000 loan over 10 years will be more than the loan itself is worth.

How does this help?

Anonymous | 8:16 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

o.k. not really but the interest would be about $5,000.

Just give them a $15,000 bonus for staying at the same school for 10 years and you will see a big increase in teacher retention.

Before all the whiners get here and start claiming "what about me?", they are welcome to become teachers whenever they want.

It is the law of supply and demand at work.

Chuck | 8:47 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

My parents always owned a home when I was growing up. My father taught in Provo School District most of my life and my mother was a full-time mom. It was possible, but we lived more frugally than most of my friends' families. These days, home prices are still well out of range for people making a beginning teacher's salary. The market should never have been allowed to inflate to the point it REQUIRED most families to have 2 full-time incomes to provide a home and the basic necessities.

K | 8:55 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

$15,000 loan BUT the teachers would have to pay interest on it. Over a 30 year loan period a person would pay $40,000 or so in interest for that $15,000 principal. Are they trying to raise money? Are they trying to raise money for the bank? Are they trying to run up prices on homes?

Why not just give them a bonus for every 5 years worked that they can spend anyway they want to? Very unfair to other city workers. Do firefighter's get extra money to buy a house?

A $500,000 house should have a $100,000 down. $2500 payment + insurance and taxes. If you can't save tens of thousands to put money down on a home you can't afford in excess of $2,500 a month +.

Insider | 9:15 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Another reflection of how little teachers in Utah actually earn. Just pay them more or as Anonymous writes give them improved opportunities to earn overtime or other jobs for pay at their respective schools.

As it sits most of the monies go to the massive, overabundance of school administrators. Make cuts there...have them earn their huge salaries by actually giving more responsiblity to each.

Education in Utah is top heavy; when administrative pay is compared with that of teachers you will find that most of them make five times more than starting teachers (check any district salary schedule). There just is not that large of a gap in other states and it needs to be monitored more closely as well as their treatment of teachers and the lack of support.

People are no longer going into education for these reasons. Yes, pay is one component but it goes way beyond that.

Anonymous | 9:36 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Response to JMT: You are exactly right. I think that most politicians should take a basic course in economics. Why single out the teachers for the benefit when so many others are either out of work or on the verge of.

There are so many other solutions to the problem. Don't waste time in the legislature.

Buddy can you spare a dime? | 9:49 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Is this part of the bailout? What's the difference between this type of handout and the Auto industry bailout?

Will the handout be available to police, firemen or librarians? How about the average Joe?

Ron | 10:04 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

RE: To Anonymous
Give me a break. Your daughter, after 10 years of teaching will be making more than most Utahns. My friends who graduated in 1998 now make salaries in the $50,000 a year range at Utah school districts. Check Utah's right to know on the web to look up what teachers make. What administrators make will make you sick. Check out the nepotism. Nevada teachers are facing a 6% pay cut! The legislature is asking for a 15% across the board cut for all state programs. How dare they bring up this loan program now? Why not a loan for firemen, police and all state workers. I'm sick of teachers complaining! Our economy is in the toilet. Try living on a private sector salary with constant health insurance hikes and threats of layoff... I have a degree and only get 2 weeks vacation a year also!

SS | 10:16 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

I have said all along that educators should get bonuses at five year increments. With the lack of college graduates going onto education they need some incetives.

No firefighters do not get house bonus but they get overtime!!

To: Ron | 10:54 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

There is already a similar program for the police to buy houses.

What district(s) are your friends working in?!!! No district on the Wasatch Front pays $50,000 for a bachelor's degree teacher until year 12.

Teachers are not immune from the rising health care costs, most pay for their insurance now.

Teachers did not ask for this program. Frankly, we are shocked at how a program like this can be suggested when we were told we would need to cut back 8%-15% for the next school year.

K | 11:15 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

I am glad firefighters get overtime. They are willing to walk into a burning building to save my life.

Teachers are salaried and they get the summer off. Yet consider summer a forced layoff. Balance your salary over twelve months instead of nine.

Come again? | 11:30 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

To Ron:
Just checked the Granite Teacher Pay Schedule for 2008-2009, and the only way you can make $50K after 10 years ($49,966) is to have a Masters Degree plus 20 semester hours. Even with a PhD a 10-year teacher only makes $52,837. That additional education comes at a cost to families. Those teachers spend a lot of evenings at night school and summers at summer school to get an advanced degree or the additional endorsements most districts require to stay employed. That doesn't leave much free time for the 2nd job some here are advocating as a solution to the problem of under-paid teachers.

Science Teacher | 11:34 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Many teachers are paid over summer. They just divide their 9 months of pay by 12.

This is a program that will help to "Catch" teachers in Utah. Currently, new teachers are leaving in droves for other states. Offering an incentive to keep them here for 10 years makes it nearly impossible to leave. Teachers being paid at the 10 year level will not want to leave and start over from scratch (this is a common practice even in Utah... you make them start over so they won't ever leave).

The Weight | 11:53 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

RE:Ron | 10:04 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

At the twenty year mark teachers red line. In other words they do not get a raise for their last ten years of service...think about that for awhile.

Teachers are people and just as frustrated as anyone else. I hear you complaining about your education/job or lack there of. But it's ok for you to complain now isn't it.

Since your job isn't working out and you have a degree come teach... Utah needs them.

I'd give you one month and then the frustration would set in and well there you go again!! But thats ok POOR BABY!!

Nothing but a bandaid... | 11:57 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

This is pathetic excuse of a bandaid, Hemingway. It seems more like a bait and switch, just to get support. Yeah, yeah, lets make it look like it helps teachers - yeah, yeah, that'll do it...

So, not only will this only help teachers, it will only help teachers who are house shopping. What about all the other teachers who have made sacrifices to get their own home already? No help there. What about all the teachers who still have no hope of owning a home? Still nothing.

Is this a plan to help teachers or your realtor buddies?

RedShirt | 12:03 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

The interesting thig is if you calculate how much a teacher makes per school day, add in 20 days for seminars and preparation before the year starts, they make $160/day, which is equal to about $42,000/year if they worked 260 days in a year.

I did a quick search, and a teacher could buy a house, on a teacher's salary. The problem is that they can't buy the same house that other people can buy. There are currently about 100 houses for sale in Davis County that cost between $100,000 and $150,000. That price range is affordable at $32,000/year.

If those houses are not acceptable to the teachers, then maybe they should have considered an alternate career for being the primary provider for a family.

Want proof? | 12:34 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

It's people like Ron who provide fodder for those who say the education system is broken...

JMT | 1:09 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Just a bit of information. An FHA conforming loan now has a limit of over $700k in Salt Lake County. In order to receive a conforming loan you must qualify through a few means to include only a 3$ downpayment. 3% of $500,000 is $15,000.

This legislator would be far better off trying to simply improve the wages of the teachers as a whole, not cherry pick with flawed methods.

Again, subprime. Even if a teacher used the $15k to get into a home valued at $200,000 and they didn't have the money for it this legislator is creating a new problem. Not solving one.

A for effort. F for execution.

T-Money | 1:54 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

RE:Ron | 10:04 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Another person claiming to have such a high level of education and great job running off at the mouth!!

Your so highly educated come and teach...OOPS can't do it with a degree from USP(University of Self Pity). Get it right!!

Tre | 2:03 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

A $15,000 loan for new teachers is an insult to experienced, veteran teachers. New teachers received a greater percentage pay increase than veterans, receive additional classroom supply money, and qualify for student loan forgiveness programs. Those who have taught 5+ years do not receive these benefits -- oops! I forgot that they are called "incentives" to keep teachers in the state. I like the idea of a bonus every five years for those who have stayed.

BTW: Teachers, firefighters, and police officers are already eligible to participate in a housing program that allows them to purchase a HUD home at 50% off the sale price, with the requirement that they fix up the home and stay there at least five years. The homes and locations are not great, but it is an opportunity to own a home at a huge discount -- better than a $15,000 loan.

Anonymous | 7:44 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

There are almost no homes in Utah that qualify for the HUD program.

Last I looked it was the ghetto of Ogden or SLC.

Sorry but even a teacher's family more valuable than a house payment.

re: Insider | 9:08 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009

Check your math when you say most administrators make five times what a teacher makes. I looked and a first year assistant principal in Granite District makes 64,000 a year. That is not five times what a first year teacher makes. An administrator has more experience and more education and training too, so they should get paid more than a first year teacher.

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