Deseret News | Reader comments: BYU, Utah Utes football: Champs or Busters?

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Comparing the unbeatens

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SEC | 1:02 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

I think Utah's dominance over Alabama in the Sugar Bowl brings into question the validity of the SEC. That conference should be dropped from the BCS along with the Big 12 following their dismal bowl results.

MiP | 2:12 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Good article.

BYU's national championsip is not only remembered in Provo. Jimmy Johnson, in the pregame "bash" he and Barry Switzer had before the Sugar Bowl, mentioned BYU winning against a "mediocre" Michigan team en route to their championship 24 years ago. As coach of Miami, I'm sure he remembers and is still fuming about it. Got to love that.

Gotta love the '84 cougars, '04 Utes and '08 Utes. It's only a matter of time before the playoff ystem is adopted and they look back at Utah as a pioneer.

RBH | 6:36 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

The strength of schedule for Utah in 2008 far surpasses the schedules of Utah in 2004 and BYU in 1984. The 2008 Utes had the most impressive season in state history - by far.

BYU won all of their games in 1984, but they had a lot of close games against weak competition. They can't be the best alltime team from the state if most BYU observers consider them to be only the 3rd or 4th best BYU team.

The 2004 Utes were one of 2 teams in 50 years to go undefeated and win all of their games by at least 14 points (the other team was Nebraska in 1994). They were untested and unproven at the highest level. Their offense was innovative and extremely effective. I am a big Ute fan and I don't think the Utes had the defensive speed in 2004 to stop a team like USC.

2008 = Best Utah Team ever. They would have beat the 2004 Utes in a close game and they would have blown out the 84 Cougars.

Comments continue below

Slow Change | 7:57 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

This years football rankings clearly show how perception affects movement in the polls. Alabama started the season ranked #24, but made jumps by beating #9 Clemson (Alabama goes to #13), and #3 Georgia (Alabama goes to #2). Preseason voters didn't realize Clemson would end up 7-6 (unranked), or that Georgia would be 10-3 (ranked #13).

The Utes required a 12-0 record to get to #7 even though they had wins over BYU (10-3, #25), and TCU (11-2, #7).

The Utes #2 ranking in the AP, along with a number of the first place votes, at least recognizes that some in the media are changing their perception of non-bcs conferences.

Stewart Mandel at SI even has the Utes of 2009 picked as his #8 team. GO UTES!!!

Big 12 | 7:59 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

I'm still not impressed with the 1-4 bowl record from their five best teams. LOL for a long time. They hid within their own conference all year. Oklahoma is now the biggest looser in the BCS bowl games along with the other overrated conferences (Big 12, ACC, and Big East). Poor Barry Switzer.

Three best conferences this year:
1) Mountain West and SEC
2) Pac-10

TheHailstorm | 8:07 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

For weeks now I have heard about the'84 season of BYU's National championship and being number 1, That was 24 years ago and then I find out that the team that beat in desperate fashion was 6-5

Impact | 8:16 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Nice article. Each team's season did open doors for the non-BCS and more particularly, the MWC.

There seems to be a progression as time passes. Utah's impressive win over Alabama was most significant as it they dominated a previous #1 team. That was a great opportunity which the other teams were not granted. BYU was given a less-than-prime Michigan squad and Utah got the shaft with an over-rated Pitt team. Even Boise State beat an uninspired Oklahoma team (much like BYU did years earlier).

The MWC ended up with three ranked teams--two of which ended up in the top 7. That is the biggest accomplishment for non-BCS teams and it is timely as the BCS is in a 4-yr evaluation cycle.

Anonymous | 8:22 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

I think both BYU and Utah would have had a difficult time beating Oklahoma, Florida, Texas or USC. They both have great to good teams, but these four are storied programs that attract the best recruits and perform at another level. It is too bad there isn't a system that could prove who is the best team, but even then anything can happen on any given day. It's an unscientific process to name a winner.

true blue | 8:41 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

The nice thing is that a nonbcs school should make it to the BCS every year now. I think next year will be the first year that a one loss team will make it. Plus once we invite Boise State to the MWC there will be enough competitition to give us an autobid. The reason that it will be hard for a MWC school to go undefeated more than one season in a row is b/c usually those teams have a lot of seniors, so the next year is a rebuilding year.

I'm guessing next years BCS buster is going to be TCU, BYU, or BSU.

Go UTES | 8:57 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Thanks to 84 BYU, 04 UTES, 08 UTES post-season steps have been taken to make things right. Also, props to programs like Fresno State, BSU, TCU, etc. for regular season support as well. Now that ESPN has the next BCS contract we will be taking steps backwards. ESPN has not been shy about bashing the current system since they don't get to televise the games. Now with their new $125 million dollar investment in the current system (to televise BCS games through 2012)they will not only promote the current BCS system but will sway the polls accordingly making it much more difficult for the non-BCS teams to gain enough votes to crash the party. It will get worse before it gets better.

UTE fan in MS | 10:24 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

True Blue, You have a great idea. The MWC with additions of Boise State and Tulsa makes the MWC very strong in both Football and Basketball. Plus it creates some great natural rivalries. BSU and Utah, along with Tulsa and TCU add two more intense rivalries to the open and coming conference in the country. We all can complain about the BCS till we are tired of it, but until the MWC takes action, I donï¿½t see the money hungry group that is the BCS doing much about it.

RE Big 12 | 10:26 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Talk about being full of yourself. Utah would not be undefeated had it played a full season in a real conference. Ask TCU how they play in the Big 12. Ask the y how they play the game anywhere outside of the MWC.

Sometimes you have to be careful what you ask for. I would love to have seen Cinderella play back to back games with the big boys.

The NIT | 10:27 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Good article. I'll take the 2008 Utah team as the Best in State History, narrowly beating the 2004 Utah team - primarily for their wonderful and dominating defense and for their versatile offense.

BYU 84 | 10:36 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

who cares if they beat a 4-7 Provo High School team, they won the National championship- the utes are always saying "we can only win the games on our schedule". Well guess what, thats what BYU 84 did, and there is a National Championship trophy living down in Provo. Sorry Utes, I NEVER see you having one. I like that.

Best Ever | 11:00 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Certainly not the 84 Y team barely escaping a 6-5 team.. try again blue bloods !

re: Best Ever | 11:00 a.m. | 11:13 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

"Certainly not the 84 Y team barely escaping a 6-5 team.. try again blue bloods !"

...But, they were ranked #1 in the country. And this years Utah team beat a 4-8 UNM team by a fieldgoal.

Are you trying to have the same argument work against BYU and not for Utah?

If you are ruling out '84 BYU ranked #1 for beating a 6-4 team, that rules out 2008 Utes for beating a 4-8 team by three points.

BYU 84 | 11:14 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

You are like Uncle Rico. Living in the past..

john | 11:53 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Please look at the Big Ten and their automatic bid, 1 and 6 in the bowls.They should only be allowed to play in the Toilet Bowl.08 Utes deserved better than they got.All over Alabama, that hung tough with Florida for 3.5 quarters.USC, the darlings of the media, usually a weak conference and known to cheat. (Reggie Bush)At least this year the conference was undefeated in Bowl games,usually playing teams with worse records. Hard to argue against the SEC ,Alabama and South Carolina the only 2 bowl losers.Alabama played a great Utah team and South Carolina by all accounts should not have been in a bowl,but you know how those automatic bids go.I wish a team would say we are not worthy give it to someone else , but bowl money overrides sportsmanship.

In the past? | 12:19 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Utah, your win too, will be in the past someday.
When it is all said and done, in 20 years who will remember this Utah win but Utah fans alone?

Without the internet, can any of you tell me who won the sugar bowl in 1987, 88, or 89 or even 2 years ago?

On the other hand, look at the list of National Champions. Only 2 non BCS Schools have one. Notre Dame and BYU.

Sorry guys, in the eyes of the nation you will always be, bo-diddly TECH.

BYU 1984 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS.

zoobies | 12:45 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

The whole nation new in 84 that BYU winning the national championship was a joke and that helped in creating this BCS mess. Thanks kewgs. This year even ESPN is giving props to Utah and getting 16 first place votes and finishing #2 under this current system is quite impressive. Keep living in 84 kewgs thats the best it's ever going to get. The 08 Utes had the most greatest season a team in this state has ever had with or without a "national championship" trophy.

Most greatest? | 12:47 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Meant to say most impressive... My bad

Get a grip | 12:57 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

How does Utah beating a 4-8 team by three points discount what Utah did this season? Are you BYU fans really that dim? Utah simply had a bad game but still WON THE GAME. The Utes later chrushed BYU then clubbed a great Alabama team and finsihed undefeated for the second time in five years. Something BYU has only experienced ONCE in their whole existance. And somehow that one time makes BYU fans think that they are superior in some way. Fact is you are all simply just jealous that Utah did this season what BYU fans thought they deserved this year. Remember those "Quest for Perfection" shirts. Haven't seen one of those in a while. hahaha

Hey there Napolean | 1:01 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

"BYU 84 | 11:14 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009
You are like Uncle Rico. Living in the past."

Wow, great, great pithy comeback.

It's been really funny every time you have used it, again, and again, and again.

If you read the story, I believe that you will see that is what the story is about. Reading is a skill you could work at.

Maybe you could go out and work on your bowstaff skills too.

I like your sleeves.

utefan96 | 1:06 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

why do i continue to read sports editorials arguing that bcs conferences are more competitive? lets make this clear for you bcsers. are bcs conferences more competitive top-bottom? absolutely! why? it's not just fate! bcs conferences have recruiting advantages being associated with an unfair system. this year's debacle involving utah strengthens this debate. we all recognize utah surpased expectations especially with a tough schedule. now however, bcs coaches can tell high school prospectives they'll never win a national championship at a non-bcs school. thus, your arguement is irrelavent. example; south florida 1996 D-I program would never be ranked without this association, louisville a recent non-bcs program, cincinatti another recent non-bcs program got into a bcs game by association while utah had to do-it the hard way, and even with west virginia's recent success would not have materialized without the defection's of miami, v-teck, and bc to the acc. however, this brings another argument in that if the big east is a bcs conference so should the mwc. if the mwc needs to invite a bsu, fsu, tulsa/hawaii to satisfy the bcs so be-it otherwise the conferences is fine as is.

Re: In the past? | 1:09 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Ask anyone outside of Utah who won the 1984 national championship and see in they can answer without the aid of the internet. Or even ask what is the only non-BCS team to win a national championship and they still won't get it or care at this point. Now ask those same people who was the first to bust the BCS and who was the first to do it twice, both times finishing undefeated, and most will be able to answer instantly; Utah. And in 20 years whose to say that the Utes won't do something impressive again? And if the Utes of 2004 and 2008 help to fix the BCS system then they will be remembered. Unlike the 84 Coogars that helped to create it.

re:Get a Grip | 1:19 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

I'm sorry, but is reading a story, a "whole" comment posted a lost art for Utes? Do they need to teach more reading comprehension at the State Universities? Do Ute fans need to go get their GED's before posting their circular reasoning?

"Are you trying to have the same argument work against BYU and not against Utah?

If you are ruling out '84 BYU ranked #1 for beating a 6-4 team, that rules out 2008 Utes for beating a 4-8 team by three points."

The point is not to demean your team, it is meant to say that you cannot have make the 6-4 claim against BYU without holding Utah to the same standards with a 3 point win over a 4-8 New Mexico.

Great Sugar Bowl win.

Topping off a 13-0 season that at times the Utes played poorly.

Idaho Coug | 1:43 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

To RBH:
"The strength of schedule for Utah in 2008 far surpasses the schedules of Utah in 2004 and BYU in 1984. The 2008 Utes had the most impressive season in state history - by far.

BYU won all of their games in 1984, but they had a lot of close games against weak competition."

What do you call New Mexico, Air Force, and TCU this year for the Utes? Blowouts? You know New Mexico, and Air Force had you on the ropes, and TCU needed to miss 2 Chip shot field goals to lose to you. Keep your ignorant opinions, and lame smack talk to yourself, especially when you have no room to back it up. Your as bad as that guy who plays ball at the local gym who talks smack and then cannot ever hit a shot and gets rejected 10 times. Wait a minute I think that was you there yesterday wasn't it? Take your game where it belongs, and leave the big talk to the big boys.

utefan96 | 2:00 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

challenge of going undefeated. bcs's plans back fired. i'm sure they researched historical data producing only a "handful" of undefeated non-bcs teams. there have never been more undefeated non-bcs teams with good credentials than in recent years (utah twice, bsu twice if utah didn't qualify in 2008, and hawaii). tulane's 1998 undefeated team wasn't good enough. the biggest test against then non-bcs louisville. no to the 1999 undefeated marshall team that did beat a not very good bcs team in clemson but the rest of their competition was a mac field schedule. i'm glad byu won a nc but unfortunately, your schedule would not have qualified you to compete for a nc these days either. my point is non-bcs clubs were not expected to go undefeated which is pretty much the standard to get to a bcs bowl. and if they did, it would be proven that they didn't belong. there was even question if utah could handle the size and speed of pittsburgh in 2004. now, the pundits have put 2 sec teams against non-bcs clubs trying to prove a point. stay focused folks. if the big east automatically qualifies the mwc shuld too.

re:Get a Grip | 2:24 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

"How does Utah beating a 4-8 team by three points discount what Utah did this season?"

Doesn't is speak poorly of college football in the State of Utah that the "Greatest Football Team in the History of the State of Utah College Athletics (see:Mile Sorensen)" is only three points better than a 4-8 New Mexico team?

Grip that.

All the Universities in Utah must be pretty lousy.

Reality | 2:27 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

As a BYU fan of over 40 years (and who was in SD for the '84 UM game), this year's Utah team is by far better than anything BYU has produced. I like to think that BYU spurred Utah to get better in the '80's and '90's so they could be where they are in part.

I am extremely disappointed that BYU has plateaued cannot seem to get beyond where they were in '84, '84 and '96. Our bowl record is pathetic and level of emotion and intensity is baffling. Kudo's to Utah for showing how it is done.

Having said all this, Utah would have had a tough time beating USC and Texas this year, and really did not play the same level of competition that these 2 teams did all season long. Beating OSU is not the same as beating all teams in the PAC 10.

wer | 2:25 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

This column, along with some others, quotes former players, coaches, etc. and/or concludes that BYU's national championship was controversial at the time. While that is true, I think there is even more negative thought about it than when it happened. Principally, for two reasons:

-a number of those who comment are just reflecting what they read or hear from others. Sports history is very short and usually what is most recent trumps what happened prior.

-while there was some outcry in 1984-85, there were many fans, writers, etc. who were glad(!) to have a change in the college football landscape. Then, just like today, people were tired of a steady diet of the same teams from the same conferences dominating the headlines. A number of poll votes were cast as much against the usual top dogs as for BYU.

Keep in mind in those days there was ONE game carried on national TV with a number of regional broadcasts. No doubt a number of voters never saw BYU play during the regular season. They, just like voters this year (as revealed in at least one column), voted on accounts of the games.

The Professor | 2:27 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

You're joking. There is not much of a debate here. First off, the 1984 Cougars were not as good as the 2008 BYU team which ends that part of the discussion. Fact is, the other teams considered for the national title that year would not have measured up to the two Utah teams in question; it was something of an average year. The 2004 and 2008 Utes present some issues. One emphaized offense, the other defense. The Sugar Bowl team was amazing in so many ways. Bottom line, by a small margin, the latest version of the Utah team was the best in the history of the school and the MWC which is quite a triumph. Will a MWC team be in the position to seriously be considered for a national title in football...probably not in the near future. So many things have to fall into place, and that makes this past season so amazing.

Classy | 2:39 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Please tell me the parade ends at the stadium we haven't rushed a field in forever. I'm having withdrawls. But wait tradional powers are used to winning and don't ruch the field after half of their home games.

who really cares? | 2:44 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Why are Americans obsessed with knowing whoï¿½s the best? Why do we need a ranking or a trophy to validate our performance or self-worth? Why canï¿½t we just play or watch sports and enjoy the atmosphere and competition?

Football is a lot of fun, but itï¿½s just a game. Time to move on.

Comes Down to: | 2:55 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

We have a national championship, you dont.

That is all.

Yewts will always be #2 | 3:03 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Let's be honest, this year's utah yewt team would have lost to USC and Florida by at least 3 TDs. The yewts had a great season, but they will always be the #2 football program in the state to BYU.

posts? | 3:43 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

After reading the posts above from the cougar faithful, it makes me wonder if they are hanging on with all their might to the last shred of hope they have in order to preserve their psyche. 1984??? Please stop reviving that mythical ghost as your claim to fame. It only serves to make it obvious that your program is stagnant and/or declining. And as well, shows your jealousy of the UTES continual upswing.

Reply: Yewts wil always be #2 | 3:47 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

"This year's Utah yewt team would have lost to USC and Flordia by at least 3 TDs."

You don't know that. No one knows that. You're not speaking honestly either.

All I know is that Utah has completed two trips and two victories to the BCS game, while BYU is still living in 1984.

I Bleed Blue | 3:50 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Before you make light of the 84 Cougar team for beating a mediocre Michigan team, remember that the following year they CRUSHED the Washington team that was rated second to BYU the year before. BYU won the NCAA championship in 84 and if Washington would have had the guts to play them in the Holiday Bowl, they would have beat them there too. The only way Michigan stayed close in that 84 game is a dirty play that took out Bosco in the first quarter. He played on one leg the rest of the way. I get tired of people making light of a great 84 BYU football team. They were number one period.

RE: Yewts will always be #2 | 4:08 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Just keep teeling yourself that buddy as you cry yoursef to sleep every night while clutching your "quest for pathetic" t-shirt.

byu number 1? | 6:23 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

The number one team in the national doesn't go to the best team, it goes to the winner of the BCS championship game. We will never know who the best team is? Utah might be the best this year, USC be as well. The problem is we will never know. These so called experts make all sorts of predictions that are way off. The said Utah didn't have a chance. How can the say that again and want us to believe them? I would take USC as the best team in the land, but we will never know.
How does this apply to BYU number 1 in 1984? BYU did what they had to to win the championship, but there isn't anyone that isn't a cougar that has ever thought they were the best team in the land. They were voted number 1, they weren't the best. They didn't beat one strong team that year!

Missing the whole point | 6:40 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

None of the teams were "the best".

To argue they were is pointless.

Can we say for both schools there have been some great seasons, and leave it at that. (also some great fans both places, and some pretty arrogant, ovnoxious, and yes, stupid fans both places.)

As a fan of both schools, I have had a ton of fun watching them fo the past 50 years.

42 posts for DN puppermasters | 6:42 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Sort of lets us know that even when the Des News writes a story to generate controversial comments, people aren't as quick to jump in like lemmings.

utefan96 | 6:47 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

people, people, people! the argument is not against byu or boise. it's against the bcs and their biased system.

lets make this easy. if notre dame played the exact schedule that utah did this year, they would be in the title game end of story!

the mwc is a pretty darn good league.

AK Cougar | 8:01 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Great article about the BCS busters. The Utes had an amazing season and I for one (cougar fan) was very proud of them. Many that I work with were very impressed with this 08 Utah team. They like to cheer for the underdog and did a couple fo years ago when Boise State beat Oklahoma. The 04 Utah team, the 84 Cougar team,the Boise State team, and the Hawaii team all made their place in history. This years run in Football was a historical event adn only in the future years will we know the full impact of the BCS busters.

Great season for Utah and BYU. I wish both both teams great success and building for next year.

True Blue Athletic Supporter | 8:19 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

To be technically correct, no division 1-A team has ever won a national championship in football.

Ute in AZ | 8:29 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

We all know that the Utes should be displaying one perhaps two NC trophies. I'm impressed with the way tds fans have for the most part been supportive of this years UTE team. If the Y (I said the proper name of the school, yuk) ever finds itself in this same situation I will pay proper respectful attention to them and what they have accomplished. The tds fans have been first class, except for a very few. Good luck next year tds, except for one game against the UTES!

Bothering | 9:02 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

It bothers me when people say they "think Utah would struggle against USC, Florida, or Oklahoma." Everyone said we would struggle, and actually get killed by Alabama, who was beating Florida until the very end of the game.

Speculation is pointless, so lets quit with the whole "I think Utah would struggle...blah, blah, blah"

Utah didn't struggle with Alabama, and thats all we can base anything on...

BYU fan | 9:51 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

"It bothers me when people say they "think Utah would struggle against USC, Florida, or Oklahoma.""

See, that's where everyone is wrong. BYU or Utah in a good year, the right day, could compete with anyone in the nation.

It just goes back that Utah' college sports program are fun to watch. We're always underdogs against the name teams, sometimes we win, sometimes not.

But, we're not Wyoming, and even they beat Tennesee.

Fellow BYU Fans | 10:14 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Fellow BYU fans,
Now is the time to give it up and congratulate Utah on a fantastic season!

You guys sound ridiculous. I don't love BYU becasue I think they're better than Utah, I just love BYU becasue I love BYU. It's pretty clear that Utah has been more successful as of late.

Have some class!!

Congratulations Utah!!

Sincerly,
A BYU Fan

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