Deseret News | Reader comments: Utah didn't have worst vote turnout

Reader comments
My view: Utah didn't have worst vote turnout

Pat Henry | 7:30 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

What possible rationale can there be for selecting "registered voters" as the denominator? Imagine a population of eligible voters so apathetic that only one of them registers to vote. The election comes, he votes, and our turnout according to Gary Herbert, is 100%. In Utah he'd be a Republican, so it would be a "landslide" and the newly elected candidate would have a mandate. Gimme' a break!

Mr. Irony | 7:51 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

So Herbert, the guy who lets the Attorney General off for mailing commercials over the state seal, is out giving civics lessons to our kids. Better keep your kids home...

evensteven | 8:49 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Unfortunately, Mr. Herbert mis-understands the numbers and what they say. The appropriate denominator to use in the calculation is the one the VA researchers used - eligible voting aged persons. As Pat points out, using registered voters immediately removes the 'totally apathetic' from the equation and we are left to determine only the 'partially apathetic'.

Registering and voting could not be made much easier, unless someone else did the actual voting for you. Motor voter, high school registration campaigns, absentee voting, early voting. It is unfortunate that many choose not to participate in the greatest process of our democracy. Fudging the numbers, as Mr. Herbert attempts to do, does not change that sad fact.

Comments continue below

Deskie | 9:07 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

The folks I know who don't vote are the same people that don't read a newspaper or even watch news on TV. There's just a percentage of us that don't care about that kind of stuff. Personally, I like to vote, and I especially enjoy voting against all the judges.

adan @ Deskie | 10:03 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Deskie: Better to abstain from voting then to vote ignorantly. If you don't know who the judicial candidates are, skip those ballot lines--don't throw a wrench in the process.

Fair Voter | 10:25 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Elections in Utah are rigged, in no small part thanks to Lieutenant Governor Gary Herbert.

Many Utahns who know that their vote doesn't count when the dice are loaded may fall into the category of "intentionally apathetic."

FairVote: The Center for Voting and Democracy has been behind several successful initiatives to make elections more competitive and representative ... which increases voter turnout.

L.G. Herbert knows he could improve voter turnout in Utah by advocating for electoral reforms such as instant runoff voting and proportional representation.

But implementing them might mean his team -- the declining Republican brand -- would have to share power.

What a shame that he is the current steward of the State of Utah's democratic processes.

Stewart | 10:40 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Lt Governor Herbert's problem is that he lives inside the political forest, and therefore is unable to picture the overall problem. He feels that if people would just vote that we would have better government.

This is not true, and we can thank those who don't vote for having the decency not to vote. They don't care about, or understand government and they know it. Neither do they wish to make the effort to learn. Many just plain don't care, but others have become so cynical that they also consider politics a waste.

When citizens perceive that politicians are ignoring them, and that their vote doesn't count anyway, they say why bother. The two party system is the cause of much of this. Citizens see elections come and go with the political dysfunction continuing as before, a few names change, but generally entrenched and useless politicians stay in office.

I larger problem is that many believe that they are electing a new king, and we in Utah were left with no real choice. So why vote? They seldom study the rest of the state and local political races. This is where the education is most needed.

jackhp | 10:43 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Shorter Herbert: Hey, it's not MY fault.

Anonymous | 10:55 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Mr. Herbert- the Desnews is grateful they cold run your clarification. You serve your 'publican masters well.

Todd Weiler | 12:01 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Thank you, Lt. Gov. Herbert, for an insightful and well thought out article.

Voting | 1:15 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Frankly, I tire of the drive to encourage everyone over 18 to vote. What good does it do to have the uninformed voting in ever larger numbers? At best it only increases the randomness in the process; at worst it means votes cast on nothing more than name recognition, bias and bigotry, or simple-minded party affiliation.

Perhaps, rather than just encouraging people to vote, we ought to try to figure out some way to get more people better informed about the issues and candidates on the ballot, about civics and economics and history. Such knowledge would lead naturally to a desire to be involved, to not only vote but to assist actively with campaigns.

Then we would end up with informed, thoughtful voters rather than so many voters casting their ballots with so little knowledge or information.

Why Vote in Utah?? | 1:34 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Why even vote in Utah?? If your not a Republican your vote doesn't count anyway-- Utahns are totally brain washed and don't have a clue about the issues or how the system works-- If you are a Democrat your automatically evil and a gadiantan (did I spell that right Mr. Herbert?) and not to be trusted. Total control breeds total corruptsion.. Welcome to Utah folks--

Re: Fair Voter | 10:25 a.m. | 1:32 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Do NOT be drawn in by the dishonestly named "fair vote." Their goal is to disproportionately increase the power of minority factions and parties over individual candidates. They oppose voter ID laws and other reasonable efforts to reduce vote fraud. They support taxpayer funding of elections. They support eliminating our current geographical districts for representation.

With rare exception, those who support this organization in Utah are those who have been unable to get elected on the merits of their proposals and so are now trying to game the system in their favor.

The GOP adopted some of the "fair vote" balloting and tabulation methods (instant runoff voting) for a season for conventions and other internal party business. The rank and file members have now largely rejected those methods as having unintended and undesired consequences.

Whatever the problems with voting in Utah, they are not caused by single-seat geographic districts or by not giving seats to tiny minority factions. Look at the Parliamentary Systems in the world to see what a mess that creates. Anyone notice the current problems with the Canadian government?

Re: Why Vote in Utah?? | 1:34 p. | 1:52 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

So do you consider Utahns "totally brain washed" because the majority vote differently than you do? Or because the majority votes for the GOP over the Democrats?

Are the voters of Massachusetts, New Jersey, DC, and other Democrat safe areas "totally brain washed" for voting Democrat in as large, or larger percentages than Utahns tend to vote GOP?

It is one thing to have honest concerns about whether voters are well informed. It is quite another to make baseless accusations simply because you are in the minority.

Brain washed--- | 2:25 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

YES, you are brain washed----- and am I concerned about other states-- its something I look at but I live in Utah. I associate with people like you everyday and I hear your statements and then you all wonder why people in other states think mormons are weird! You have State Senators that are totally stupid like Chris Buttars that is quoted in national news-- how embarassing and he get re-elected???? Now can you tell me there isn't even one person in his district that is level headed and not out of control?? I said brain washed and I meant Brain Washed!!!!!

Re: Re: Fair Voter 10:25 a.m. | 4:39 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Whatever "current problems" Canada's government may have, it's not because of proportional representation -- which is not used to elect Canada's parliament. Canada uses the same messed up single-member district, plurality method used in the United States.

This electoral reformer supports voter ID laws and opposes taxpayer financing of campaigns (taxes already fund American elections) ... so we can't all be painted with the same broad brush.

The Utah GOP's leadership opposes electoral reforms like instant runoff voting and proportional representation because it poses a threat to their illegitimate hold on power (and the flow of tax and borrowed dollars to L3 Communications and other beneficiaries of the media-military-industrial-congressional complex) ... those are the "unintended and undesired consequences" the 10:25 a.m. commentator is referring to.

Anonymous | 4:51 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

I was at a fireside at the U abot 2 months ago and the speaker (a prominant Mormon) basically informed the congragation that you could not be a serious member of the church and vote Democrat. I was reluctant about accepting my friends invitation to to go to this thing, but it confirmed a lot of my perceptions about the LDS church.

interesting note | 1:00 a.m. Dec. 30, 2008

the majority of posters can't seem to get enough of bashing all things opposed to their "enlightened and progresive" way of thinking. I personally find it interesting that the very demographic that swayed this year's election is the least politically educated and aware group of all groups considered. Honestly, find me a twenty year old who voted for the MTV candidate and the miracle of change AND knows anything...anything about Joe Biden, or nearly any of the people Obama is choosing for his cabinet. They are swayed by the anti Bush, anti republican rhetoric for the same reason they drink at parties and speed when they drive...ignorant rebellion against the previous generation!

Fan of Herbert's | 1:58 p.m. Dec. 30, 2008

I for one have been very impressed with the work of the office of the Lt. Governor. In the last four years I have noticed a greater emphesis placed on the importance of voting and I think the "Leave Your Print" campaign has been very successful. This is the most effort I have seen by the Lt. Governors office ever since I've lived in Utah, or anywhere else for that matter. I know he is involved in a lot more than elections too and has done a commendable job.

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