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Mormon Media Observer on MormonTimes.com: Focus on Family pulls Glenn Beck article
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Anonymous | 4:39 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
The fact that they spend so much time trying to disprove other religions shows
the fallibility of standard Christian dogma. Truth should stand on its own.
professing Christ as the only prerequesite to heaven is a shallow premise for a
belief as James chapter 2 states that faith without works is dead. It also
states Satan himself ackowledges the Christ but that does not give him a free
ride into eternity. Mormons should not worry whether we are accepted as
"Christian" because "Christian" beliefs are precarious and
scary at best.
wrz | 4:41 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
I wonder what they would do if Beck were Kwansaa?
Comments continue below
Definitions | 4:50 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
This comment is made with total respect for those who follow the LDS faith.
There has been a lot of talk about definitions on these boards of late. Of taking a word that has a long-standing, traditional meaning and attempts to use it now in ways many see as not only broader in scope, but beyond the scope of the word.
That is how Christians feel about faiths which are relatively new on the scene using the term "christian." Christian has a long-standing, traditional meaning coined by a Roman emporor to refer to those who followed the teachings of Christ. This body of followers founded many sects of what became known as Christianity.
By their own definition of restoration, the LDS do not adhere to the same principles as the Christian sects. Their religion is founded on what they believe to be restored principles of Christ that were lost from Christian religions.
So. The LDS could easily disconnect from this contention and refer to themselves as followers of Christ and stop trying to co-opt the term Christian which for hundreds of years has meant adhering to specific teachings in particular ways not simply being followers of Christ.
There has been a lot of talk about definitions on these boards of late. Of taking a word that has a long-standing, traditional meaning and attempts to use it now in ways many see as not only broader in scope, but beyond the scope of the word.
That is how Christians feel about faiths which are relatively new on the scene using the term "christian." Christian has a long-standing, traditional meaning coined by a Roman emporor to refer to those who followed the teachings of Christ. This body of followers founded many sects of what became known as Christianity.
By their own definition of restoration, the LDS do not adhere to the same principles as the Christian sects. Their religion is founded on what they believe to be restored principles of Christ that were lost from Christian religions.
So. The LDS could easily disconnect from this contention and refer to themselves as followers of Christ and stop trying to co-opt the term Christian which for hundreds of years has meant adhering to specific teachings in particular ways not simply being followers of Christ.
wrz | 4:58 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Julie | 3:46 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008:
"You Mormons need to do some serious repenting or God someday will smite you down in the end. You shouldn't be playing with God saying he says this and he says that...that is a BIG no no!"
Julie, that's what Evangelicals do, guys like Dobson. Get a clue.
To Sanity 2:58 pm | 4:58 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
"I don't see the LDS church putting up evangelical works on their Web
sites. Where are they?"
Focus on the Family is not a Church and neither is Glenn Beck. Your complaint is irrelevant.
When Saddelback Church puts up links to LDS sites, then we can talk.
You do see evangelical and other non-LDS authors publicized and sold in LDS-owned Deseret Book. You will also find links from the LDS Church website to materials not published or written by Mormons.
When I see a book by Gordon B. Hinckley being sold in an evangelical bookstore, then I'll be surprised. You can already find Joel Osteen on sale at Deseret Book.
The LDS are already more than fair. Where's the reciprocation?
Focus on the Family is not a Church and neither is Glenn Beck. Your complaint is irrelevant.
When Saddelback Church puts up links to LDS sites, then we can talk.
You do see evangelical and other non-LDS authors publicized and sold in LDS-owned Deseret Book. You will also find links from the LDS Church website to materials not published or written by Mormons.
When I see a book by Gordon B. Hinckley being sold in an evangelical bookstore, then I'll be surprised. You can already find Joel Osteen on sale at Deseret Book.
The LDS are already more than fair. Where's the reciprocation?
Marvin | 5:06 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
John Taylor said . . .
"We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense....Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century."( Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 167 - 1858)
"We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense....Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century."( Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 167 - 1858)
Anonymous | 5:09 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Focus on the family was moved by the loving spirit of god to follow their
beliefs. They love Mormons, they just want Mormons to denounce their false
prophets and teachings to become born again in the light of true Christianity.
To Definitions 4:50 pm | 5:15 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
With all due respsect, it is the modern evangelical movement that has co-opted
the term "Christian". The term was first used in the New Testament by
non-Christians to refer to the new Jewish sect that believed in Christ. It was
not coined by any Roman Emperor.
Irony of ironies, many of these same evangelicals deny the label "Christian" to followers of the modern Roman Church. And they ignore altogether the Eastern Orthodox branch.
I will agree, as you said, "Christian" refers to someone who follows the teachings of Christ.
If you study the history of some of those early (1st through 5th centuries and beyond) Christian sects, you will find a wide variety of beliefs, and yet they were all accorded the title of being Christian.
The Reformers "reformed" Christianity, and yet we allow them the title.
So, Christianity has NEVER meant adhering to specific teachings in particular ways.
Call us LDS Christians, or Christains-but-different, or something similar to distinguish us from modern mainstream Christianity if you must, but to deny our faith in the living Christ is offensive and, most obviously, illogical.
Cheers.
Irony of ironies, many of these same evangelicals deny the label "Christian" to followers of the modern Roman Church. And they ignore altogether the Eastern Orthodox branch.
I will agree, as you said, "Christian" refers to someone who follows the teachings of Christ.
If you study the history of some of those early (1st through 5th centuries and beyond) Christian sects, you will find a wide variety of beliefs, and yet they were all accorded the title of being Christian.
The Reformers "reformed" Christianity, and yet we allow them the title.
So, Christianity has NEVER meant adhering to specific teachings in particular ways.
Call us LDS Christians, or Christains-but-different, or something similar to distinguish us from modern mainstream Christianity if you must, but to deny our faith in the living Christ is offensive and, most obviously, illogical.
Cheers.
kato | 5:19 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
HAVING BEEN RAISED LDS AND ALSO HAVING SERVED THE PUBLIC ALL OF MY LIFE, I
DISAGREE WITH A LOT THAT I READ HERE. ANY GOOD CHRISTIAN WHO BELEIVES IN GOD
AND FREE AGENCY WOULD KNOW IN HIS OR HER HEART TO TEAR DOWN ANY GROUP EXPOUNDING
GOOD CHRISTIAN BELEIFS IS BASICLY NON CHRISTAIN BEHAVIOUR--DUH-
I HAVE ALWAYS BELEIVED THAT IF AND WHEN I ACTUALLY LEARN TO RUN MY OWN LIFE- THEN I MIGHT HAVE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE--BUT ITS NOT LIKELY TO HAPPEN REALLY FAST--I HAVE GREAT FRIENDS OF MANY FAITHS AND OF NO FAITH--AND BELEIVE THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE WHAT THEY WANT WITHOUT MY CRITICS VOICE BEING A FACTOR--AND MANY OF THEM ARE GREAT PEOPLE IN MY EYES
EVEN BEING LDS I DONT CONSIDER MYSELF TO BE BETTER THAN ANYONE--AND HAVE ALWAYS THOUGHT TRUTH IS TRUTH NO MATTER WHERE IT COMENS FROM--
I FEEL SORRY FOR ANYONE WHO CANT SEPARATE
OPPINION FROM BELEIF, FREEDOM OR EVEN A SIMPLE TRUTH
I HAVE ALWAYS BELEIVED THAT IF AND WHEN I ACTUALLY LEARN TO RUN MY OWN LIFE- THEN I MIGHT HAVE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE--BUT ITS NOT LIKELY TO HAPPEN REALLY FAST--I HAVE GREAT FRIENDS OF MANY FAITHS AND OF NO FAITH--AND BELEIVE THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE WHAT THEY WANT WITHOUT MY CRITICS VOICE BEING A FACTOR--AND MANY OF THEM ARE GREAT PEOPLE IN MY EYES
EVEN BEING LDS I DONT CONSIDER MYSELF TO BE BETTER THAN ANYONE--AND HAVE ALWAYS THOUGHT TRUTH IS TRUTH NO MATTER WHERE IT COMENS FROM--
I FEEL SORRY FOR ANYONE WHO CANT SEPARATE
OPPINION FROM BELEIF, FREEDOM OR EVEN A SIMPLE TRUTH
Wake Up and Smell the Postum | 5:19 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Most members of the Church are rightly upset and confused why fundamental
Christians do not think LDS are Christian. We worship the Savior and recognize
that His sacrifice and atonement are vital to mankind's salvation. I think
most evangelicals would acknowedge this fact as well.
BUT - we cannot be so blinded by our defensiveness that we do not recognize that MANY current or past LDS doctrines are VERY disturbing to the majority of evangelical Christians. We cannot have a dialogue with those who disagree with us if we cannot acknowledge the facts - regardless how much we may wish those facts could be dismissed as opinion or ignored as old and outdated.
As an active member of the Church, the Gospel teaches me of the Savior and His atonement in the most beautiful way. But I also know enough about our history and doctrine to know that we cannot pretend, hide, or white-wash away those aspects that are so troubling to mainstream Christianity and cause us to be categorized by many as a cult.
Unfortunately, modern-day technology allows many non-Mormons to know about our history and doctrine that may members. Our testimonies must include facts and the Spirit.
BUT - we cannot be so blinded by our defensiveness that we do not recognize that MANY current or past LDS doctrines are VERY disturbing to the majority of evangelical Christians. We cannot have a dialogue with those who disagree with us if we cannot acknowledge the facts - regardless how much we may wish those facts could be dismissed as opinion or ignored as old and outdated.
As an active member of the Church, the Gospel teaches me of the Savior and His atonement in the most beautiful way. But I also know enough about our history and doctrine to know that we cannot pretend, hide, or white-wash away those aspects that are so troubling to mainstream Christianity and cause us to be categorized by many as a cult.
Unfortunately, modern-day technology allows many non-Mormons to know about our history and doctrine that may members. Our testimonies must include facts and the Spirit.
boise/pam | 5:22 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
stupid is as stupid does. Some people just don't have a brain
JB | 5:29 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Re: Definitions
Then Martin Luther should not have considered himself a Christian when he broke away from the Catholic Church? Protestant religions were not around in Roman times. They didn't pop up for centuries. How long did the protestant churches that broke away from the Catholic Church need to hang around until they could begin to call themselves Christians? I'm sorry but this makes no sense.
As far as adhering to specific teachings, the doctrines of the protestant churches have changed a great deal during the last century and a half. For example; in the nineteenth century, works were heavily taught as needing to accompany grace, the same as the LDS have taught, but this is now generally excluded.
How about we try this...any who has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, accepting Him as their Savior can use the term Christian. And just who can decide such a personal thing? God and the person, period.
Then Martin Luther should not have considered himself a Christian when he broke away from the Catholic Church? Protestant religions were not around in Roman times. They didn't pop up for centuries. How long did the protestant churches that broke away from the Catholic Church need to hang around until they could begin to call themselves Christians? I'm sorry but this makes no sense.
As far as adhering to specific teachings, the doctrines of the protestant churches have changed a great deal during the last century and a half. For example; in the nineteenth century, works were heavily taught as needing to accompany grace, the same as the LDS have taught, but this is now generally excluded.
How about we try this...any who has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, accepting Him as their Savior can use the term Christian. And just who can decide such a personal thing? God and the person, period.
JB | 5:41 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Linda:
The good news is that God Himself has told us how He feels. It is in the Bible. We are to love Him with all our hearts and also to love one another. And if we are not one we are not His. So I refuse to be angry with my fellow-Christians who call me anti-Christ and kick me out of their churches. I will pray for them and hope the best for them for this is what we are told to do in the Sermon on the Mount.
Jesus told us that people will know His disciples by their love one for another (John 13:35). It is the greatest of His fruits. We are all sinners and come short, none are above another, but at least we can love one another and show that love in our actions.
The good news is that God Himself has told us how He feels. It is in the Bible. We are to love Him with all our hearts and also to love one another. And if we are not one we are not His. So I refuse to be angry with my fellow-Christians who call me anti-Christ and kick me out of their churches. I will pray for them and hope the best for them for this is what we are told to do in the Sermon on the Mount.
Jesus told us that people will know His disciples by their love one for another (John 13:35). It is the greatest of His fruits. We are all sinners and come short, none are above another, but at least we can love one another and show that love in our actions.
Re:Definitions | 5:55 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
This comment is made with all due respect to those who do not understand the
difference between "religion" and "denomination." Any
respected linguistic source will verify that Christianity is a religion and
Catholicism, Mormonism, Lutheranism, etc. are all denominations of Christianity.
Mormonism is not a denomination of Islam, Judaism, or Hinduism. It is a
Christian denomination. The real difference is that Mormons do not follow the
Nicene Creed, while modern Christian denominations (they're all pretty much
"new on the scene" after all, except Catholicism) do. People such as
yourself have co-opted a 2,000-year-old word to mean those who follow the Nicene
Creed. Webster's still gives two basic meanings for "Christian":
an adherent of the teachings of Christ, or someone who is commendably decent. If
you tell us we're not Christian based on the first definition, you're
presuming to tell us what we believe. If it's the second definition,
you're judging us.
Blake | 5:57 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Please understand that the LDS Church does not preach to be the only true
faith.... ALL Christian faiths have truths. The LDS faith was restored through
Joseph Smith and therefore named The Church Of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day
Saints.
All we can do for those that think differently is to show love and compassion. The pure love of Christ.
All we can do for those that think differently is to show love and compassion. The pure love of Christ.
Dale | 6:12 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Forcus on the Family: Ignorance on the march. How does one get his name off
mailing lists that bring their items to my mailbox?
Seth | 6:22 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
The fact that mormons spend so much time trying to prove the faith to themselves
and others should be a little telling on the instability of the mormon church
and it's teachings. Not to mention the fact that you attept to tear down
every other belief system in trying to maintain your legitimacy. I do fill sad
for you and welcome those with the need to truly understand Christ to step out
of the cult and explore Christian options.
Re: Julie 3:46 p.m. | 6:25 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
Yes, mormons need to repent, but so do catholics, baptists, all Christians, and anyone else on the earth, because everyone sins.
If your point was to say that the LDS Church is false, then the Deseret News.com, an LDS owned newspaper & website, is probably not the best place to be picking a fight.
If you want to know what the LDS church believes, look up the 13 articles of faith of the LDS church. It states the basic beliefs of the church. I bet you would agree with most of the things stated on there as well.
Yes, mormons need to repent, but so do catholics, baptists, all Christians, and anyone else on the earth, because everyone sins.
If your point was to say that the LDS Church is false, then the Deseret News.com, an LDS owned newspaper & website, is probably not the best place to be picking a fight.
If you want to know what the LDS church believes, look up the 13 articles of faith of the LDS church. It states the basic beliefs of the church. I bet you would agree with most of the things stated on there as well.
billy6 | 6:33 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Sorry, Mormons are Christians in a moral sense only. Theologically, LDS
doctrine is closer to Hinduism. It is NOT Christian. Your "God" is
merely an exalted man who has parents, grandparents, literal children, body of
flesh, etc. Christians have an altogether different God. One who has ALWAYS
been God, has no parents, wives, or literal children. No bigotry or hate
intended here, just fact. LDS folks are free to believe as they choose, but
should not confuse the polytheistic, anthropocentric Gospel of Joseph Smith with
Christianity......
Blessed are you | 6:40 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Albenar said:
"God has told them that the LDS/Mormon faith is an abomination in the eyes of God. It is the work of the Devil, who has deceived these souls and will drag them down to hell with their evil ways. They are just doing the Lord's work and if you have a problem with their bigotry, you should take it up with the Lord, Jesus Christ."
�Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.�
That is what Christ said.
Anonymous | 6:48 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
I love Dave Ramsey's books, etc. However, it appears that if you are Mormon you may not even be able to work with him. Check out his site and see if you can become an employee. When I read it I understood that you cannot. In spite of this lots of Mormons support his work. That is because we support truth wherever we find it.
I am a convert. I am glad people did not get all out of sorts with me when I displayed my ignorance and fear. We should just be grateful for what we have and be willing to share it with those whom the Lord has prepared. They will come around eventually, and when they do it would be nice if they could recall our kindness and patience with them. Turn the other cheek! They know not what they do.
Ricardo | 6:47 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Anyone who claims his own religious interpretation makes him a Christian and his
neighbor, also professing Christ as his Savior, is not Christian, is a hypocrite
and a liar. They can think that, but no one believer of Christ is superior to
another. We are all sons and daughters of God and equal in His eyes.
Dobson fits the description of religious hypocrite to a T.
Dobson fits the description of religious hypocrite to a T.
Kurt | 6:48 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Our family joined the LDS Church in 1964. When our previous Missouri Synod
Lutheran Pastor heard about it, he responded by putting an article in the
monthly mailing to all parishioners warning against the Mormons. My 16 year-old
sister called him up--our pastor for 15 years--and asked him to come visit with
the family. He said that as long as we were Mormons he would never enter our
house. So much for sectarian "Christian" love of fellow man and help
for a so-called lost sheep. He never visited or contacted the family again, and
we're greatfully active Latter-day Saints 44 years later. Either their hate
is so strong (which I doubtt) or (more likely) it is just a matter of
priest-craft. Their leaders stir up their members because they're all
afraid of losing their jobs. They are to be pitied, not hated.
How sad | 6:57 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Focus On The Family......wow not very smart. You can't find a more
pro-family group than the LDS church. They are going to lose every
"friend" they have and lose all of their clout. Oh well. good
riddens
Freeman | 7:15 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
To Definitions:
Your argument might hold some water if those original doctrines had not changed so drastically over the years. Ever heard of the Protestant Reformation? What about all the redefining the Vatican has done just in the past fifty years? Your "traditional" Christian churches of today barely resemble the early churches both in teachings and in practice.
Your argument might hold some water if those original doctrines had not changed so drastically over the years. Ever heard of the Protestant Reformation? What about all the redefining the Vatican has done just in the past fifty years? Your "traditional" Christian churches of today barely resemble the early churches both in teachings and in practice.
Sandi | 7:18 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
reply to on the cross
Will you know Christ when He comes again? How?
Will you know Christ when He comes again? How?
Mormons.... | 7:20 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Come home to Christ. You are always welcome.
Finally got it | 7:25 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
When I was young my sisters & I went to church with a family we went to
school with. When one of my sisters & I stopped going my dad asked us why
we stopped going. I didn't quite understand this since he never went to
church.
I eventually got to the point that I wasn't sure if there was a God. It really bothered me that people went to church on Sunday but was not respectful of God or any person the rest of the week.
The sister that continued going to church once told my Catholic mother that Catholics weren't Christian. This really hurt my mother. I didn't think that was a very Christian thing for my sister to say. It kind of added to my confusion of my belief in God.
Then there was Jimmy Swaggart, Jim & Tammy Faye Baker, more confusion.
Then I was invited to attended the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Then it all started to make sense. I only wish that I had attended sooner.
I eventually got to the point that I wasn't sure if there was a God. It really bothered me that people went to church on Sunday but was not respectful of God or any person the rest of the week.
The sister that continued going to church once told my Catholic mother that Catholics weren't Christian. This really hurt my mother. I didn't think that was a very Christian thing for my sister to say. It kind of added to my confusion of my belief in God.
Then there was Jimmy Swaggart, Jim & Tammy Faye Baker, more confusion.
Then I was invited to attended the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Then it all started to make sense. I only wish that I had attended sooner.
Jennifer Stallworth | 7:28 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
As LDS I adhere to Church leadership and do not give to street begars. I only
tithe and offer to the Church. It has been said and I follow the leadership. Our
donations and volunteer work lead all organizations and our leadership is
recognized.
Listen and Follow the Prophet. Don't help those who refuse to help themselves. Give to the Church as Temples are more valuable to these people than food.
Listen and Follow the Prophet. Don't help those who refuse to help themselves. Give to the Church as Temples are more valuable to these people than food.
Anne | 7:41 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
How funny...His book sold out here in WV. We are not as intolerant as some.
What a great book!!! Go Beck!!!
Articles of Faith 1-7 | 8:22 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in
the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3. We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3. We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
Articles of Faith 8-11 | 8:24 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated
correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
Articles of Faith 11-13 | 8:25 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates
of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship
how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
-Joseph Smith
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
-Joseph Smith
The Truth | 8:26 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Joseph Smith said . . .
"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world." ("Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith," Compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith, page 270.)
"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world." ("Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith," Compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith, page 270.)
Deb | 8:26 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
The only way to really know the Savior is to study and take His teachings and to
live those teachings. It is harder then it sounds. But we are here to progress
and grow. Line upon line, Precept upon precept. Non of us is perfect (only our
Savior Jesus Christ) and any Latter-Saint will tell you that. Not one person is
better then another. Member or non-member. We do not embrace a belief or life
style that we do not belief in. We are taught to love one another reguardless.
If someone has had an incounter with members that have made them feel that we
are better, it is not the teachings of our church. Because we are human, we
constantly sin. That is why we have the atonement of Jesus Christ so we can
repent and be forgiven and try to do better.
Mark | 8:38 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
The bottom line is...
Evangelicals have never been tolerant of LDS theology, only of LDS money spent in their favor in the culture war (Abortion, ERA, Prop 8, etc.)
We've always been alone in this world. When will you all come to terms with that?
Evangelicals have never been tolerant of LDS theology, only of LDS money spent in their favor in the culture war (Abortion, ERA, Prop 8, etc.)
We've always been alone in this world. When will you all come to terms with that?
JB | 8:45 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Re: Jennifer
I'm sorry but I don't believe we are counseled to not help beggars. I have read suggestions that buying them a meal instead of giving them money is a good thing to do and that is what I try to do but sometimes I give money when I feel prompted. King Benjamin, in The Book of Mormon, spoke very explicitly about all of us being beggars and needing to help beggars. It is the Christian thing to do.
I'm sorry but I don't believe we are counseled to not help beggars. I have read suggestions that buying them a meal instead of giving them money is a good thing to do and that is what I try to do but sometimes I give money when I feel prompted. King Benjamin, in The Book of Mormon, spoke very explicitly about all of us being beggars and needing to help beggars. It is the Christian thing to do.
Deb | 8:53 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Jennifer Stallworth. Do you not know about our welfare and Humanitarian program?
We are not taught to not give to a street begger.
Uygur | 8:58 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Evangelicals,Taliban same mind set, same level narrow, reactionary view of
Christanity.
Neither group is Christian.
Neither group is Christian.
Re: Deb | 9:03 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Oh yeah, Oh forgot about those humanitarian and welfare programs. I have have
heard rumbling that about 1% of every cent given to the church ends up in those
programs. That's pretty impressive! And lends alot of money to put into
billion dollar malls and lavish temples.
Who's a Christian | 9:11 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
. . . who's not? Dictionary defintions? Quotations from a lot of dead
guys? Why all the hubbub?
Proof? Proof of what?
With all due respect to posters on both sides of the issue here -- what you think -- or what I think -- ain't worth a bucket of warm spit!
It's what Our Lord and Savior thinks of any of us that counts.
And I'll betcha He's happier with Glenn Beck than with all of us and James Dobson put together.
That's all that should be important to any of us.
You go, Glenn!
Proof? Proof of what?
With all due respect to posters on both sides of the issue here -- what you think -- or what I think -- ain't worth a bucket of warm spit!
It's what Our Lord and Savior thinks of any of us that counts.
And I'll betcha He's happier with Glenn Beck than with all of us and James Dobson put together.
That's all that should be important to any of us.
You go, Glenn!
Deb | 9:13 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Go Glenn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mark | 9:32 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
"The Bible of the Old World has come to us from the manuscripts of
antiquity - manuscripts which passed through the hands of uninspired men who
changed many parts to suit their own doctrinal ideas. Deletions were common,
and, as it now stands, many plain and precious portions and many covenants of
the Lord have been lost. As a consequence, those who rely upon it alone [the
Bible] stumble and are confused" (Bruce McConkie, in The Ensign, December
1985, p 55).
Thanks | 9:44 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Mark... I loved the wisdom and clarification of Bruce R. McConkie...
Robert Y. Valentine | 9:54 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
After returning to Utah after 35 years back East where we developed thick skins
and made an effort to return harsh words with kind ones, my wife and I are
surprised at the level of anti-Mormon intolerance right here in Utah. To those
who have left the LDS church, two questions: 1. How's it working out? 2.
Why don't you come back to an LDS ward? We are eager to embrace you!
eric | 10:00 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
If being a Christian means that you have free license to slander other religions
in the name of Christ than maybe I don't want to be associated with
Christians.
AZperson | 10:30 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Thanks Gloria for your comment. I completely agree and hope that people will
look into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints for themselves.
Scott, Iowa | 10:42 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
It seems that behaving in a Christian manner today must either be Protestant or
Catholic. Which is true since neither have apostles in their theological
government? The early Church existed because Jesus established to the apostles
how it should be run. The churches today, who knows if they are actually the
original Church since no one living from that early era is here to tell us.
ROB A. | 10:51 p.m. Dec. 27, 2008
Re Deb,
YOU are a very funny person. Thank for the silly comics. Perfect is as perfect does. That means stop gossiping as a ward member and then only then things may seem prefect as a ward member- Thank you.
YOU are a very funny person. Thank for the silly comics. Perfect is as perfect does. That means stop gossiping as a ward member and then only then things may seem prefect as a ward member- Thank you.
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Oh, and what dictionary were you using?