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Activist disrupts BLM auction by running up bids
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Oil Man | 1:40 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
Something that greatly weaked the protestors position is that fact that every
lease that is nominated is protested - whether in pristine nature or the most
ugly landscape. If the protestors wanted to make reasonable arguements at
appropriate times and places fine...gut on every single parcel? How is this
sale any different from the previous years of sales? It is called pick your
battles. If the protestors didn't cry wolf every single day on every
single parcel, there sincere cries are more likely to be heard. In addition,
the case isn't done...the protestors will further protest after the sale
and try to halt production. What a great way to use money in such a
"robust" economic time in America...litigation and weakening the
countries energy position by not finding more sources. And lets not kid
ourselves that alternative energy is the IMMEDIATE solution, lets say we could
double these other sources in 10 years, where would we get the other 85% of our
energy then? Your complaints are being filed in this forum with Oil, natural
gas, coal and so forth...so don't be too hypocritical.
Ing | 1:41 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
Ha! That's awesome.
Sorry, "Open minded," I can't find much similarity between this and ruining someone's personal, private celebration.
If the dude broke the law, he's going to have to pay the price, but I consider it a point well made. This resource auction shows as little regard for the people of Utah on Bush's part as the Grand Staircase Monument did on Clinton's part.
Only difference is, while neither is likely to benefit the state economically (despite the dollar signs that dance in people's heads whenever oil and mining are mentioned), this action is going to adversely affect some of the most spectacular scenery and pristine environments in the world.
Exactly howw spectacular and pristine and how much of an effect may be up for debate, but it certainly won't improve anything -- not even the local economy. Oh, wait... It'll give a few mining/drilling corporations the chance to make a lot of money for themselves if they hit pay dirt.
But whatever...
Sorry, "Open minded," I can't find much similarity between this and ruining someone's personal, private celebration.
If the dude broke the law, he's going to have to pay the price, but I consider it a point well made. This resource auction shows as little regard for the people of Utah on Bush's part as the Grand Staircase Monument did on Clinton's part.
Only difference is, while neither is likely to benefit the state economically (despite the dollar signs that dance in people's heads whenever oil and mining are mentioned), this action is going to adversely affect some of the most spectacular scenery and pristine environments in the world.
Exactly howw spectacular and pristine and how much of an effect may be up for debate, but it certainly won't improve anything -- not even the local economy. Oh, wait... It'll give a few mining/drilling corporations the chance to make a lot of money for themselves if they hit pay dirt.
But whatever...
mark | 2:04 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
His generation, a background check before people can buy something? Insanity. Do
some of you posters even think before you post?
Especially you religious ones. Not that I know if this poster is religious, but isn't there something in the Bible about needing a mark before being able to buy stuff? The Mark of the Beast?
Especially you religious ones. Not that I know if this poster is religious, but isn't there something in the Bible about needing a mark before being able to buy stuff? The Mark of the Beast?
Comments continue below
mark | 2:20 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
Dare to do things worthy of imprisonment if you mean to be of consequence.
~Juvenal
Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one. ~Chinese Proverb
Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands it. ~Albert Einstein
No radical change on the plane of history is possible without crime. ~Hermann Keyserling
When leaders act contrary to conscience, we must act contrary to leaders. ~Veterans Fast for Life
It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. ~Voltaire
If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law. ~Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849
You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it. ~Malcolm X
As long as the world shall last there will be wrongs, and if no man objected and no man rebelled, those wrongs would last forever. ~Clarence Darrow
Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one. ~Chinese Proverb
Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands it. ~Albert Einstein
No radical change on the plane of history is possible without crime. ~Hermann Keyserling
When leaders act contrary to conscience, we must act contrary to leaders. ~Veterans Fast for Life
It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. ~Voltaire
If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law. ~Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849
You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it. ~Malcolm X
As long as the world shall last there will be wrongs, and if no man objected and no man rebelled, those wrongs would last forever. ~Clarence Darrow
To Roobah | 2:21 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
Ah, but Roobah, you miss the critical point entirely. Don't you see?
Bloch and DeChristopher are in cahoots! It's a two-man con job. They both
worked in concert. On the surface, Bloch wags his head and says tisk, tisk at
DeChristoper's stunt. Inside, Bloch says "right on." Look, the
enviros are masters of collusion, conspiracy, good-cop bad-cop routines, you
name it. One of Bloch's assistant attorney dudes was seen talking
extensively to DeChristopher during the bidding. Come on, who's kidding
who. It's a big interconnected conspiracy.
mark | 2:24 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which
course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man.
To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor,
both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may. ~Mark
Twain
Laws are only words written on paper, words that change on society's whim and are interpreted differently daily by politicians, lawyers, judges, and policemen. Anyone who believes that all laws should always be obeyed would have made a fine slave catcher. Anyone who believes that all laws are applied equally, despite race, religion, or economic status, is a fool. ~John J. Miller, And Hope to Die
Disobedience, the rarest and most courageous of the virtues, is seldom distinguished from neglect, the laziest and commonest of the vices. ~George Bernard Shaw, Maxims for Revolutionists
Every actual state is corrupt. Good men must not obey laws too well. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson
Laws are only words written on paper, words that change on society's whim and are interpreted differently daily by politicians, lawyers, judges, and policemen. Anyone who believes that all laws should always be obeyed would have made a fine slave catcher. Anyone who believes that all laws are applied equally, despite race, religion, or economic status, is a fool. ~John J. Miller, And Hope to Die
Disobedience, the rarest and most courageous of the virtues, is seldom distinguished from neglect, the laziest and commonest of the vices. ~George Bernard Shaw, Maxims for Revolutionists
Every actual state is corrupt. Good men must not obey laws too well. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson
Re Dan | 2:25 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
Moreover, if the medal of honor is made out of metal, then that wouldn't be
cool, becuase metal comes from the earth, and we don't want to disturb the
earth to get the ore to make the metal, now do we?
mark | 2:27 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was
"legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary
was "illegal." ~Martin Luther King, Jr., "Letter from Birmingham
Jail," Why We Can't Wait, 1963
It is not what a lawyer tells me I may do; but what humanity, reason, and justice tell me I ought to do. ~Edmund Burke, Second Speech on Conciliation, 1775
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. ~Robert A. Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
Ordinarily, a person leaving a courtroom with a conviction behind him would wear a somber face. But I left with a smile. I knew that I was a convicted criminal, but I was proud of my crime. ~Martin Luther King, Jr., March 22, 1956
It is not what a lawyer tells me I may do; but what humanity, reason, and justice tell me I ought to do. ~Edmund Burke, Second Speech on Conciliation, 1775
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. ~Robert A. Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
Ordinarily, a person leaving a courtroom with a conviction behind him would wear a somber face. But I left with a smile. I knew that I was a convicted criminal, but I was proud of my crime. ~Martin Luther King, Jr., March 22, 1956
The Only Hope This Guy Has | 2:29 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
Is if the criminal case against him is assigned to U.S. District Judge Tena
Campbell, who is in the hip pocket of SUWA. Campbell will find a way to not
convict this guy. That's what you get with the SUWA loving Judge Campbell.
mark | 2:49 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
Right Dan, how dare someone think that a woman like Rosa Parks has any right
being seen as someone special, after all it was just her personal little pet
cause that she stood up for. She should have shut her mouth and given up her
seat to make room for that white rider. And even more, she should be castigated
for going against the law of the land. She also should have done time and been
fined much more then ten dollars.
And how dare she receive the Congressional Gold Medal, or a statue in the United States Capitol's National Statuary Hall, or the posthumous honor of lying in honor at the Capitol Rotunda.
After all it was just her personal little pet cause that she stood up for.
She has nothing on the servicemen and women that are shipped halfway around the world to be used to make the world safe for the American Business Man.
And how dare she receive the Congressional Gold Medal, or a statue in the United States Capitol's National Statuary Hall, or the posthumous honor of lying in honor at the Capitol Rotunda.
After all it was just her personal little pet cause that she stood up for.
She has nothing on the servicemen and women that are shipped halfway around the world to be used to make the world safe for the American Business Man.
Croc | 3:11 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
Remember when Bill Clinton set aside the Escalante Grand Staircase and parts of
the state were ready to riot? Now George Bush is doing a similar last minute
fire sale - but to corporations that exploit, pollute, and have callous regard
to Utahns. Any complaints from those same people? I wonder.
Anonymous | 3:30 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
"To those of you who call this sale unethical lets not forget the very
unethical creation of the Grand Staircase by the Clintonistas."
What does Obama have to loose politically making more national monuments? Thank god Clinton was called to save part of the West. He followed a great tradition started by Teddy Roosevelt.
Dan | 1:07 p.m Has son of a WWII war vet and a army veteran who served during Vietnam, I don't need a draft dodger telling me abut military service.
What does Obama have to loose politically making more national monuments? Thank god Clinton was called to save part of the West. He followed a great tradition started by Teddy Roosevelt.
Dan | 1:07 p.m Has son of a WWII war vet and a army veteran who served during Vietnam, I don't need a draft dodger telling me abut military service.
FOR JUSTICE | 3:46 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
Fine him a goodly amount each year for the rest of his life and only grant him
the leases he can afford to pay for with cash right now.
Say what | 4:27 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
I can't believe all the idiots that are saying it's OK to break the
law if you don't agree with it.
Can I come to your house and see if there's anything there I'd like to have?
Can I come to your house and see if there's anything there I'd like to have?
Friend of Mankind | 4:45 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
Perhaps all those people calling him a hero can help pony up the 1.7 million he
owes to the federal goverment. And since he is going to owe the government, He
probably wont be able to get the student loans and pell grants he is accustomed
to getting..
Grand Approval | 4:47 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
Don't forget that the sale of these oil leases were one of the Bush
administration's last ditch attempts to get their agenda through. They
arranged it in secrecy, cut short the required comment period. They were bound
and determined to provide goodies to the extraction industries regardless of the
damage and wreckage to the priceless and irreplaceable national treasures that
the government is charged with protecting in perpetuity.
The only unfortunate aspect about Tim's act of civil disobedience is that there haven't been many other such creative outburst before this.
Tim reminds us that there is more than one way to respond to forces that refuse to follow the rules or listen to the will of the public.
The only unfortunate aspect about Tim's act of civil disobedience is that there haven't been many other such creative outburst before this.
Tim reminds us that there is more than one way to respond to forces that refuse to follow the rules or listen to the will of the public.
His Generation | 5:04 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
mark: apparently you you don't understand a lot. When you go to buy
anything of value they run a credit check or similar to decide your ability to
pay. That is what I was refering to; but apparently you are the ignorant to
understand a simple concept that would have prevented this whole fiasco.
Mother Earth | 6:34 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
Yes he IS a HERO...(dan)... My HERO! AND..He didn't have to Invade another
country, murder another Human Being whose crime was defending HIS homeland,
anyway he can. Or, rape another Innocent child to, BE a REAL HERO! I get tired
of hearing what wonderful, brave and honorable Americans are for committing such
unacceptable WAR CRIMES. Remember, we hung Iraq's leader for that kind of
treatment towards people...
l | 8:06 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
No need to prosecute him criminally right of the bat. Simply pursue the
contract he has made as a civil matter. He has entered into a contract. He may
be sued for 'specific performance', that is, required by the court to
perform the specific act he entered into a contract to do - buy the land. Once
he has backed out of the contract, been required to pay for it, and then
declares bankrupty to get out of it, then sue him criminally for fraud.
Bro Chuck's Rant n Rave | 8:36 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
So, another BYU liberal activist the FBI was questioning him who registered for
the auction as Tim DeChristopher of Salt Lake City. Then Utah starts up a
feeding frenzy because the State name was used?. Give me a break will ya?.
Liberal Mainstream Media Ignores the Real Stories again - for this Republican
bashing garbage?. This week the so-called mainstream media fixated on a Baghdad
shoe-throwing contest, more government bailout bucks and the delightful prospect
of having Caroline Kennedy appointed to Hillary Clinton's vacant seat in
the U.S. Senate. The potentates of the press gave short shrift, or simply
ignored two far more important news stories, the first-ever assembly of Latin
American leaders gathered to stick it to the United States, and the passing of a
great conservative leader who helped Ronald Reagan become one of America's
greatest presidents. Both stories deserved more attention than they received.
That, however, would require journalists, news directors and editors to have
some knowledge of history and current events beyond what they can collect from a
quick "Google search" and an attention span greater than a fruit fly.
Why don't they talk about their "The One" Obamacon, and
where's his paper's at?.
Anonymous | 9:16 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
Dan I'm a veteran. What branch did you serve in? Dan tell this vet who
enlisted during Vietnam about valor. Tell me about duty to my country, Dan. Tell
me about sacrifice Dan. Dan, were you there to greet me? I don't remember
many folks caring about defending us vets when I got off the plane Dan.
Prison Time | 11:46 p.m. Dec. 20, 2008
If this guy wants to commit fraud in the name of "saving the planet"
then let him serve his sacrificial time in a federal pen.
I wonder if he will be against drilling his way out of prison?
I wonder if he will be against drilling his way out of prison?
Mike S. | 12:11 a.m. Dec. 21, 2008
I hear that a legal defense fund is being planned for Mr. DeChristopher. Google
oneutah.
And no one has mentioned the lawbreaking by Kane County officials who ignored BLM officials and led a caravan over prohibited terrain or the ATV drivers who, daily and for a moment's pleasure, destroy terrain that will take many decades to recover - if not further abused.
And no one has mentioned the lawbreaking by Kane County officials who ignored BLM officials and led a caravan over prohibited terrain or the ATV drivers who, daily and for a moment's pleasure, destroy terrain that will take many decades to recover - if not further abused.
Molon Labe | 4:17 a.m. Dec. 21, 2008
Hopefully he'll come to appreciate drilling in prison.
Dan | 6:00 a.m. Dec. 21, 2008
Ref so many interesting uniformed comments to me....
1 - I am a retired officer of the United States Army. I served for 21 years on 4 different continents, and spent about 4 years away from my home and family.
2- Rosa Parks IS one of my 'heroes.' I've visited the bus she stood up in at the Ford Museum in Detroit. Have you? She EARNED the Presidential Medal of Freedom she was given. Which is the highest award for civilians our nation offers. Her acievements were truly heroic and changed the course of history in our country. It is equivalent to the Medal of Honor in honor. So if the original comment I responded to had recommended this guy for THAT honor, I'd have probably let it go. Not that I pesonally think this act in anyway compares to her bravery. Again at the true RISK of her life to better the lives of others - not just to make a political point.
3- To the Vietnam Vet. My father served with you. And when HE came home, I was a small, very proud son - and I honored his service all my life.
1 - I am a retired officer of the United States Army. I served for 21 years on 4 different continents, and spent about 4 years away from my home and family.
2- Rosa Parks IS one of my 'heroes.' I've visited the bus she stood up in at the Ford Museum in Detroit. Have you? She EARNED the Presidential Medal of Freedom she was given. Which is the highest award for civilians our nation offers. Her acievements were truly heroic and changed the course of history in our country. It is equivalent to the Medal of Honor in honor. So if the original comment I responded to had recommended this guy for THAT honor, I'd have probably let it go. Not that I pesonally think this act in anyway compares to her bravery. Again at the true RISK of her life to better the lives of others - not just to make a political point.
3- To the Vietnam Vet. My father served with you. And when HE came home, I was a small, very proud son - and I honored his service all my life.
jon | 8:21 a.m. Dec. 21, 2008
Tim DeChristopher is a true American hero. Instead he is called by some posters
a terrorist and anarchist. This is the old ineffective and dishonest tactic used
by the right wing throughout the last 8 years of the worst administration in
American history. What sticks in the craw of some of these apologists for the
oil and gas industry is that this act of civil disobedience was effective in
protecting lands like those around Arches until the president-elect takes
office. America has a proud history of civil disobedience in the civil rights
and anti-war movements to say nothing about Thomas Jefferson and the Declaration
of Independence. The first thing Barack Obama should do after being sworn into
office is grant a full pardon to Tim DeChristopher.
mark | 11:48 a.m. Dec. 21, 2008
His generation, you said back ground check, if you had meant credit check you should have said credit check. Do you understand that? There is a difference. Is that a simple enough concept for you? Simpleton.
mark | 12:38 p.m. Dec. 21, 2008
Dan, you said, "I get tired of people pretending their personal little pet
causes are somehow equivalent to the risk/committment/honor our service men and
women stand up for everyday of their lives."
I was responding to that comment, not particularly your Medal of Honor argument.
You said that you get tired of people pretending that their personal little pet causes are equivalent to the risk, commitment, and honor of service people.
You should know, more then many, that those words: risk, commitment, and honor, cannot be applied to all service members. Not even most. Not if you are honest and not just spouting nonsense and propaganda.
But I would not have raised issue with that for it is a pleasant lie we tell ourselves in this country.
I was responding to that comment, not particularly your Medal of Honor argument.
You said that you get tired of people pretending that their personal little pet causes are equivalent to the risk, commitment, and honor of service people.
You should know, more then many, that those words: risk, commitment, and honor, cannot be applied to all service members. Not even most. Not if you are honest and not just spouting nonsense and propaganda.
But I would not have raised issue with that for it is a pleasant lie we tell ourselves in this country.
mark | 12:38 p.m. Dec. 21, 2008
No, my issue was your denigration of "personal little pet causes,"
and by extension civil disobedience, for much of civil disobedience rests on
personal little pet causes.
I used Rosa Parks as an example because of her recognizable name. I could have mentioned others, such as Irene Morgan, or Sarah Louise Keys, or Joseph O'Rourke, or Michael Dougherty.
I really do not understand what you think is added to your argument by asking if I have visited the Ford Museum in Detroit.
What I do know is that Rosa Parks was just defending a personal little pet cause, �no, the only tired I was, was tired of giving in.�
I used Rosa Parks as an example because of her recognizable name. I could have mentioned others, such as Irene Morgan, or Sarah Louise Keys, or Joseph O'Rourke, or Michael Dougherty.
I really do not understand what you think is added to your argument by asking if I have visited the Ford Museum in Detroit.
What I do know is that Rosa Parks was just defending a personal little pet cause, �no, the only tired I was, was tired of giving in.�
Re "Timj | 10:01 a.m." | 1:26 p.m. Dec. 22, 2008
Timj | 10:01 a.m.
This is an "OPINION Page". You don't have to have hard evidence admissible in court to have an opinion!!!
These people were just expressing their OPINION that Bloch and SUWA were somehow involved. It's just their opinion! Just like YOU sometimes have opinions that are not based 100% on provable and oncontravertable evidence.
This is an "OPINION Page". You don't have to have hard evidence admissible in court to have an opinion!!!
These people were just expressing their OPINION that Bloch and SUWA were somehow involved. It's just their opinion! Just like YOU sometimes have opinions that are not based 100% on provable and oncontravertable evidence.
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Brad Wixom of Salt Lake City bids on land at the Bureau of Land Management oil and gas lease sale at the BLM Office in Salt Lake City on Friday.
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