Reader comments
BYU rehangs photo exhibit
141 comments | Read story
- Page:
- < Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
Anonymous | 7:01 p.m. Dec. 10, 2008
ok, what's for dinner?!
Shame | 7:20 p.m. Dec. 10, 2008
Only homophobia and bigotry can possibly explain why BYU took down the exhibit
in the first place. The fact that they corrected their error only shows that
they have a politically savy administration, but it doesn't change the fact
that prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry are fundamental to the mindset of
BYU and LDS leaders!
Shame on BYU! Shame on the LDS church!
Shame on BYU! Shame on the LDS church!
Comments continue below
I was there | 7:40 p.m. Dec. 10, 2008
To Glen,
As a student volunteer, I worked in the BYU Psychology Department/Clinic-sponsored research studies and I can assure you that these electric-shock therapy experiments to try to cure homosexuality DID HAPPEN! I was a volunteer helping out with no less than 3 separate studies, each examining aspects of homosexuality, its origins, and its modifiability. The results of these studies were communicated to Salt Lake and the Brethren, and it is because the results indicated that homosexuality may be inborn and is extremely resistant to the most powerful forms of electro- and chemical- therapies that the Brethren have taken the official stand they have taken. Officially, same sex attraction is NOT a sin! Only homosexual behavior is considered sinful in the Church.
As a student volunteer, I worked in the BYU Psychology Department/Clinic-sponsored research studies and I can assure you that these electric-shock therapy experiments to try to cure homosexuality DID HAPPEN! I was a volunteer helping out with no less than 3 separate studies, each examining aspects of homosexuality, its origins, and its modifiability. The results of these studies were communicated to Salt Lake and the Brethren, and it is because the results indicated that homosexuality may be inborn and is extremely resistant to the most powerful forms of electro- and chemical- therapies that the Brethren have taken the official stand they have taken. Officially, same sex attraction is NOT a sin! Only homosexual behavior is considered sinful in the Church.
Zadruga Guy | 7:46 p.m. Dec. 10, 2008
To Shame, what evidence do you have that the explanation for the temporary
removal of the exhibit was anything other than the miscommunication stated in
the article? If you have any, then state it. If not, then apologize for your
slander.
Re: Shame | 9:35 p.m. Dec. 10, 2008
Lets put your picture up for public viewing and see if you approve! Say what you
think, but please think before you say it!
In the exhibit | 9:51 p.m. Dec. 10, 2008
I have read through most of the comments and I would like to say a few things. I
am one of the people pictured in this exhibit. I consider myself gay, but I am
not "openly gay" meaning, acting on my attractions and desires. I
guess some people call it having same-sex or same-gender attractions. I am also
a member of the LDS Church. I participated in this project to break down
stereotypes and for people in the BYU and Mormon community to gain a better
understanding of the subject. Most of you have no idea what it is like to feel
hated, to be made fun of, be alienated, and to feel alone for something that you
did not choose and that has been a part of you your whole life. I am not an
evil person and I am not a gay rights activist. I am just trying to live my life
the best way that I can. I hope that people will look at the exhibit for what it
truly is for, understanding. Look into my eyes and see me for who I am.
Re: in the exhibit | 10:18 p.m. Dec. 10, 2008
I too have read most of the comments on this board and I would like to add my
comments. I too struggle with same sex attractions. I was weaker than you and
unfortunately, I gave in many times. I finally went to my Bishop and he was very
helpful to me. With much prayer and determination I have lived the law of
chastity for over two years now. My temptations were strong but have gotten
easier over time for me to handle. I chose to be celibate. I am a bit different
than you in that I have not been made fun of or hated. I do not find fault with
anything anyone has said on here, but just wanted to give my perspective. I
think I do understand you and what you are going through. What helps me is that
I believe I have this issue (challenge) to bear during my mortal life. Many
people I know have spiritual, physical or mental challenges and I admire those
who bear them with dignity and honor. I want to do likewise. I have no interest
in changing the world or the Gospel. Thanks to all who wrote here.
B | 11:54 p.m. Dec. 10, 2008
Why are we so quick to pass judgements? I think the artist was trying to make a
point and he made it. Not all art is easy to swallow, and apparently this topic
is very difficult for many of us.
me | 1:53 a.m. Dec. 11, 2008
It is like troy was reading my mind.
Sal | 7:25 a.m. Dec. 11, 2008
I don't understand don't want to understand the Bible anymore. The
Bible does talk about tolerance and Love. Never does it say we should tolerate
the sin nor does it say that if we don't toelerate sin that we are
unloving. Our Savior says, and we accept, that we should love everyone, but sin
is unacceptable. The Book of Mormon talks of ALL men (women) being a natural
enemy of Christ unless we yield to the enticings of the Holy Spirit. So if you
want to claim homosexuality as "natural" that is your choice, but it
doesn't mean it is not a sin and therefore must be repented of.
Don't use my money for that | 9:24 a.m. Dec. 11, 2008
"I am sick and tired of people using my tithing money to promote an agenda that is contrary to the teachings of the church that pays for 66% of his education."
An agenda such as understanding other people? Heaven forbid charitable donations be used for things such as that.
Grimble | 10:17 a.m. Dec. 11, 2008
Commentor at 9:24am: If you're complaining about how YOUR tithing money is
spent, I don't think you quite understand tithing.
Oh Yeah | 10:47 a.m. Dec. 11, 2008
Of tempests and teapots...
Anonymous | 10:54 a.m. Dec. 11, 2008
If it is MY tithing money, then I will keep a good grip on it so frauds and
charlatans don't deprive me of it!
BYU Honor Code Review | 11:05 a.m. Dec. 11, 2008
It's time for BYU to sit down and review its Honor Code and to define
exactly what sexual behavior is for heterosexual and homosexual students. My
understanding is that the church is benevolent to homosexuals who are not
"practicing."
I have several gay friends, due to the nature of my work in the theatre arts. I treat them all civilly and appreciate their talents and contributions.
But I don't want my tithing to fund, nor my children to attend, any university that allows homosexuals to advocate for their lifestyle, as this photo display the student's blog do.
Homosexuality is not a civil right. It is a sin. Furthermore, Simon LeVay, the father of "born that way" research has backed off because of the success of reorientation and reparative therapy.
People are born with genetic tendencies to many other detrimental behaviors, such as alcoholism. We do not preach tolerance toward alcoholism. But we do love the alcoholic and desire to help that person. We rehabilitate alcoholism best through Christ-like 12 step programs.
At the very least, BYU should require its gay students to complete a reparative therapy regimen in order to retain student status.
Cherilyn Bacon Eagar
World Class Education Research
I have several gay friends, due to the nature of my work in the theatre arts. I treat them all civilly and appreciate their talents and contributions.
But I don't want my tithing to fund, nor my children to attend, any university that allows homosexuals to advocate for their lifestyle, as this photo display the student's blog do.
Homosexuality is not a civil right. It is a sin. Furthermore, Simon LeVay, the father of "born that way" research has backed off because of the success of reorientation and reparative therapy.
People are born with genetic tendencies to many other detrimental behaviors, such as alcoholism. We do not preach tolerance toward alcoholism. But we do love the alcoholic and desire to help that person. We rehabilitate alcoholism best through Christ-like 12 step programs.
At the very least, BYU should require its gay students to complete a reparative therapy regimen in order to retain student status.
Cherilyn Bacon Eagar
World Class Education Research
dismayed | 12:13 p.m. Dec. 11, 2008
How very depressing to read most of these comments. To the artist! Bravo, you
brilliantly put your finger on the pulse of the most explosive issue at BYU in a
very classy way.
To Cats: Lets turn your argument around. Mormons should be tolerated in the same way you tolerate homosexuals. We don't imprison them or kill them, we would never do such a thing here in the US. But we should not tolerate their bigotry or hatred either. Let's vote on a law in america to classify mormons as a cult rather than a religion, thus preserving the traditional definition of christianity and saving it from degradation and destruction. Love the mormon, but hate their religion.
How does all that sound when it is turned back on you?
I think it sounds incredibly small minded and bigoted.
To everyone, someone you know and love is gay. If you don't know anyone... then it is just because they are too afraid to tell you. Whether it is one in 100, or 1 in ten, each of us has a family member or a close friend who is gay. That's what this exhibit is about.
To Cats: Lets turn your argument around. Mormons should be tolerated in the same way you tolerate homosexuals. We don't imprison them or kill them, we would never do such a thing here in the US. But we should not tolerate their bigotry or hatred either. Let's vote on a law in america to classify mormons as a cult rather than a religion, thus preserving the traditional definition of christianity and saving it from degradation and destruction. Love the mormon, but hate their religion.
How does all that sound when it is turned back on you?
I think it sounds incredibly small minded and bigoted.
To everyone, someone you know and love is gay. If you don't know anyone... then it is just because they are too afraid to tell you. Whether it is one in 100, or 1 in ten, each of us has a family member or a close friend who is gay. That's what this exhibit is about.
sam | 12:24 p.m. Dec. 11, 2008
I thought it was a beautiful exhibit. Whether you agree or disagree with the
subjects' lifestyles you cannot help but feel love and charity toward them-
purely because they are people....and so are you. It's a humbling
experience to realize that we are all God's children. Not one of us is
regarded as better than the other no matter how much you light loath someone.
To Cheryl | 2:46 p.m. Dec. 11, 2008
"At the very least, BYU should require its gay students to complete a
reparative therapy regimen in order to retain student status. "
Cherilyn Bacon Eagar
World Class Education Research
Didn't you read these posts? Didn't you know that this has already been tried?
I quote I WAS THERE:
"As a student volunteer, I worked in the BYU Psychology Department/Clinic-sponsored research studies and I can assure you that these electric-shock therapy experiments to try to cure homosexuality DID HAPPEN! I was a volunteer helping out with no less than 3 separate studies, each examining aspects of homosexuality, its origins, and its modifiability. The results of these studies were communicated to Salt Lake and the Brethren, and it is because the results indicated that homosexuality may be inborn and is extremely resistant to the most powerful forms of electro- and chemical- therapies that the Brethren have taken the official stand they have taken. Officially, same sex attraction is NOT a sin! Only homosexual behavior is considered sinful in the Church."
Cherilyn Bacon Eagar
World Class Education Research
Didn't you read these posts? Didn't you know that this has already been tried?
I quote I WAS THERE:
"As a student volunteer, I worked in the BYU Psychology Department/Clinic-sponsored research studies and I can assure you that these electric-shock therapy experiments to try to cure homosexuality DID HAPPEN! I was a volunteer helping out with no less than 3 separate studies, each examining aspects of homosexuality, its origins, and its modifiability. The results of these studies were communicated to Salt Lake and the Brethren, and it is because the results indicated that homosexuality may be inborn and is extremely resistant to the most powerful forms of electro- and chemical- therapies that the Brethren have taken the official stand they have taken. Officially, same sex attraction is NOT a sin! Only homosexual behavior is considered sinful in the Church."
re:grimble | 3:44 p.m. Dec. 11, 2008
"Commentor at 9:24am: If you're complaining about how YOUR tithing
money is spent, I don't think you quite understand tithing."
Sorry the sarcasm of my 9:24 post went over your head. (oops, there I go again.)
Sorry the sarcasm of my 9:24 post went over your head. (oops, there I go again.)
RE: Honor Code Review | 8:59 a.m. Dec. 12, 2008
Said Cheryl: "At the very least, BYU should require its gay students to
complete a reparative therapy regimen in order to retain student
status."
I did attend reparative therapy at BYU, and I attempted suicide because of it. Thank God I failed. I know at least 30 people who have been through reparative therapy. Not a single one of them has been changed from gay to straight. Reparative therapy not only failed to give me an attraction to women and to remove same gender attractions, it almost killed me.
If voluntary therapy couldn't change me, how would forcing someone into therapy change their orientation? You're proposed requirement would become capital punishment for many homosexuals.
I did attend reparative therapy at BYU, and I attempted suicide because of it. Thank God I failed. I know at least 30 people who have been through reparative therapy. Not a single one of them has been changed from gay to straight. Reparative therapy not only failed to give me an attraction to women and to remove same gender attractions, it almost killed me.
If voluntary therapy couldn't change me, how would forcing someone into therapy change their orientation? You're proposed requirement would become capital punishment for many homosexuals.
John Pack Lambert | 10:51 a.m. Dec. 12, 2008
I think we need to reject the making of sexual orientation an identity. We
need to realize our first and foremost identity is as children of God.
John Pack Lambert | 11:07 a.m. Dec. 12, 2008
I did not make the comments at 8:38. This again causes me to call for
structured registaration.
I do not know about the electro-shock aversion therapy. However I do know that most of the understanding of electro-shock therapy is an outgrowth of the lies perpetrated by "One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest". Electro shock theorapy may or may not have ever been a good idea. However, it was administered by people who believed that the electric shocks would help people function better, because they felt the problems of these people were caused by the electric impulses in the body not working. It was not meant to be a form of punishing people but of treating and helping people. It may have been ill advised and poorly administered, but the intent was to help those people it was used on, it was not a form of punishment and manipulation as some have tried to represent it.
I thought the assesment of why homosexuality elicits different reactions that alchoholism was fairly good. However, the author ignored the fact that we have not spoken enough that homosexuals always have legally been allowed to marry, and people like Quinn prove they did.
I do not know about the electro-shock aversion therapy. However I do know that most of the understanding of electro-shock therapy is an outgrowth of the lies perpetrated by "One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest". Electro shock theorapy may or may not have ever been a good idea. However, it was administered by people who believed that the electric shocks would help people function better, because they felt the problems of these people were caused by the electric impulses in the body not working. It was not meant to be a form of punishing people but of treating and helping people. It may have been ill advised and poorly administered, but the intent was to help those people it was used on, it was not a form of punishment and manipulation as some have tried to represent it.
I thought the assesment of why homosexuality elicits different reactions that alchoholism was fairly good. However, the author ignored the fact that we have not spoken enough that homosexuals always have legally been allowed to marry, and people like Quinn prove they did.
John Pack Lambert | 11:13 a.m. Dec. 12, 2008
No where in the article did I see these people identified as open homosexuals.
They are "self identified homosexuals". There is a difference.
However, the assumptions about the fixedness of sexual orientation implicit in
this description and in the rhetoric of the same-sex marrige movement are
disturbing and untrue.
I would also agree that this piece was meant to be provocative. I think the maker, growing up in an mainly Mormon town like Eagar, has no clue what effect this issue has on those of us who live outside of the Mormon Cultural Area.
Lastly I think the creator of the display is too into publicity. He should have not publicized the ups and downs of this case. He should have kept quiet while the adminstration was sorting it out. Despite his claims to like BYU, his actions betray a desire to tweak it, which is clearly not a Zion attitude.
I would also agree that this piece was meant to be provocative. I think the maker, growing up in an mainly Mormon town like Eagar, has no clue what effect this issue has on those of us who live outside of the Mormon Cultural Area.
Lastly I think the creator of the display is too into publicity. He should have not publicized the ups and downs of this case. He should have kept quiet while the adminstration was sorting it out. Despite his claims to like BYU, his actions betray a desire to tweak it, which is clearly not a Zion attitude.
John Pack Lambert | 11:21 a.m. Dec. 12, 2008
My understanding of various rules would tell me that dating, kissing and other
such behaviors by church members with those of the same gender would not allow
them to reamin in good standing with the church. While a non-mmeber student at
BYU engaged in such activity would be allowed to reamin, I think that behaviors
that are meant to lead to activities that are universally an abomination to the
Lord would not be acceptable.
I would however like to hear from someone who has first hand knowledge on this issue, such as someone who has actually ajudicated such a case at BYU.
At least my assumption was that the men portrayed in the pictures are men who feel same-gender attraction but do not act on it, which would mean they do not kiss members of the same sex. Well, at least not in a manner and under the idea of someone they are sexually attracted to. To me at least the line is an inward one, that only you can know if you crossed.
At least I hope they understand if you don't want to burn you avoid playing with fire.
I would however like to hear from someone who has first hand knowledge on this issue, such as someone who has actually ajudicated such a case at BYU.
At least my assumption was that the men portrayed in the pictures are men who feel same-gender attraction but do not act on it, which would mean they do not kiss members of the same sex. Well, at least not in a manner and under the idea of someone they are sexually attracted to. To me at least the line is an inward one, that only you can know if you crossed.
At least I hope they understand if you don't want to burn you avoid playing with fire.
John Pack Lambert | 11:32 a.m. Dec. 12, 2008
To the 10:50 commentator,
My guess is that someone things Paul's "thorn in the flesh" was same-gender attraction.
However, there is a passage in one of the epistles where he makes explicit reference to his wife. The term appears in the KJV as "yoke-fellow" but based on its originally Greek it is almost certainly a reference to his wife.
This will cause people to comment on his line "It is better to marry than to burn". He is not there saying that he is unmarried, but he lives as an unmarried man. Like the apostles early in this dispensation when they went to England, Paul left his wife behind in one of the Greek cities on most of his missions. Brother Griggs wrote an article where he explained all this much better than I have here.
My guess is that someone things Paul's "thorn in the flesh" was same-gender attraction.
However, there is a passage in one of the epistles where he makes explicit reference to his wife. The term appears in the KJV as "yoke-fellow" but based on its originally Greek it is almost certainly a reference to his wife.
This will cause people to comment on his line "It is better to marry than to burn". He is not there saying that he is unmarried, but he lives as an unmarried man. Like the apostles early in this dispensation when they went to England, Paul left his wife behind in one of the Greek cities on most of his missions. Brother Griggs wrote an article where he explained all this much better than I have here.
John Pack Lambert | 11:55 a.m. Dec. 12, 2008
To the 9:51 commentator,
Yes, we only know what it is like to be hated, made fun of and mocked for a religion we hold dearly.
Yet, many of us know what it is like to have a strugle with something we wish we did not have, to get made when we wish we could stay calm.
Your experience is not as unique or different as you think it is.
Also you may say "I am not a gay rights activist" but the fact that people constantly tell us that "love the sinner, condemn the sin" and teaching against homosexual actions is wrong is distrubing.
Also, I advise you to re-consider your decision to identify as being "gay". Same-gender attraction is not the only hallmark of this movement. The amount of active homosexuals who have over 500 sexual partners is sickening. What goes on in Castro is sickening.
I would advise embracing the term of "same-gender attraction" for the very reason that the term gay carries with it the baggage of a movement that seeks to destroy monogamy as a social norm and other such things.
Your basic attraction is not mutable, but your identity is.
Yes, we only know what it is like to be hated, made fun of and mocked for a religion we hold dearly.
Yet, many of us know what it is like to have a strugle with something we wish we did not have, to get made when we wish we could stay calm.
Your experience is not as unique or different as you think it is.
Also you may say "I am not a gay rights activist" but the fact that people constantly tell us that "love the sinner, condemn the sin" and teaching against homosexual actions is wrong is distrubing.
Also, I advise you to re-consider your decision to identify as being "gay". Same-gender attraction is not the only hallmark of this movement. The amount of active homosexuals who have over 500 sexual partners is sickening. What goes on in Castro is sickening.
I would advise embracing the term of "same-gender attraction" for the very reason that the term gay carries with it the baggage of a movement that seeks to destroy monogamy as a social norm and other such things.
Your basic attraction is not mutable, but your identity is.
John Pack Lambert | 12:02 p.m. Dec. 12, 2008
To the 10:18 commentator,
You have made a great progress. I am glad to hear you are standing in the Lord's kingdom. Remember, we love you.
Your comments have helped me understand that this may well be a good exhibit.
However, I think a lot of people forget the level of hate and intolerance shown to the ex-gay movement. To often people who are seeking to overcome same-gender attraction are told by psychologists that they should just give in.
While it is true than you may have to actively struggle with this attraction all your life, we must remember than God loves us, and at times the power of Jesus can change our innermost desires.
I do not know why some people are allowed to cast off this attraction and eventually reach the point of marrying in the temple in this life, and others struggle with same gender attraction all their life, but I do know that God loveth his children, and if you remain faithful to your covenants in this life, God will not deney any blessing to you.
We love you 10:18 guy, and I hope there is a way we can help you more.
You have made a great progress. I am glad to hear you are standing in the Lord's kingdom. Remember, we love you.
Your comments have helped me understand that this may well be a good exhibit.
However, I think a lot of people forget the level of hate and intolerance shown to the ex-gay movement. To often people who are seeking to overcome same-gender attraction are told by psychologists that they should just give in.
While it is true than you may have to actively struggle with this attraction all your life, we must remember than God loves us, and at times the power of Jesus can change our innermost desires.
I do not know why some people are allowed to cast off this attraction and eventually reach the point of marrying in the temple in this life, and others struggle with same gender attraction all their life, but I do know that God loveth his children, and if you remain faithful to your covenants in this life, God will not deney any blessing to you.
We love you 10:18 guy, and I hope there is a way we can help you more.
John Pack Lambert | 12:16 p.m. Dec. 12, 2008
To Sam,
I thought the point of the exhibit was that these people do not practice a lifestyle but that they have deep seated attractions to the same-gender that they do not act on.
I am beganing to realize more and more that the biggest problem is that we have never come to a dialogue where we differencite those who suffer from same-gender attraction and those who act on it.
The main problem is the gay-rights activists who want both groups conflated into one so they can be the speakers for a larger power bloc.
I thought the point of the exhibit was that these people do not practice a lifestyle but that they have deep seated attractions to the same-gender that they do not act on.
I am beganing to realize more and more that the biggest problem is that we have never come to a dialogue where we differencite those who suffer from same-gender attraction and those who act on it.
The main problem is the gay-rights activists who want both groups conflated into one so they can be the speakers for a larger power bloc.
re: Lambert | 12:53 p.m. Dec. 12, 2008
"I do not know about the electro-shock aversion therapy.....However, it was
administered by people who believed that the electric shocks would help people
function better, because they felt the problems of these people were caused by
the electric impulses in the body not working."
You just keep talking whether you know anything about a subject or not, Lambert. You state you don't know about the program used, but somehow you know their motives as well as stating "they felt the problems were caused by the electric impulses in the body".
The program was "aversion" therapy. Students were shown slides of men and while seeing the slides, the were given electric shocks. The idea is to give the student an unpleasant reaction to seeing the slides.
You remind me of my Sunday School students. So many are reluctant to pronounce Old Testament names because they don't know how to correctly pronounce the names. I tell them pronounce it however you want, just do it loudly and confidently. Everyone else in the room will be mistakenly impressed because they will think you know the corrrect
pronunciation.
You keep talking loudly and confindently, whether you know what you are talking about or not.
You just keep talking whether you know anything about a subject or not, Lambert. You state you don't know about the program used, but somehow you know their motives as well as stating "they felt the problems were caused by the electric impulses in the body".
The program was "aversion" therapy. Students were shown slides of men and while seeing the slides, the were given electric shocks. The idea is to give the student an unpleasant reaction to seeing the slides.
You remind me of my Sunday School students. So many are reluctant to pronounce Old Testament names because they don't know how to correctly pronounce the names. I tell them pronounce it however you want, just do it loudly and confidently. Everyone else in the room will be mistakenly impressed because they will think you know the corrrect
pronunciation.
You keep talking loudly and confindently, whether you know what you are talking about or not.
re: Lambert | 1:09 p.m. Dec. 12, 2008
"Electro shock theorapy may or may not have ever been a good idea."
The reported suicides that came as a result of this program would seem to indicate that it may not have been a good idea. What do you think?
The reported suicides that came as a result of this program would seem to indicate that it may not have been a good idea. What do you think?
John Pack Lambert | 2:17 p.m. Dec. 12, 2008
To the 1:09 commentator,
Just because someone commits suicide while in a program does not mean there is a cause and effect relationship between the two.
Just because someone commits suicide while in a program does not mean there is a cause and effect relationship between the two.
To JPL | 2:48 p.m. Dec. 12, 2008
"Just because someone commits suicide while in a program does not mean
there is a cause and effect relationship between the two."
What about more than one? What about more than five?
What about more than one? What about more than five?
To JPL | 2:52 p.m. Dec. 12, 2008
RE: Honor Code Review | 8:59 a.m. Dec. 12, 2008
"I did attend reparative therapy at BYU, and I attempted suicide because of it. Thank God I failed."
What about all those who tried and failed?
And yet this program went on for a couple of decades. Amazing. I actually know those who have scars from these shocks.
"I did attend reparative therapy at BYU, and I attempted suicide because of it. Thank God I failed."
What about all those who tried and failed?
And yet this program went on for a couple of decades. Amazing. I actually know those who have scars from these shocks.
Hate to be inflammatory | 5:48 p.m. Dec. 12, 2008
But some of these comments are so outragious, such as Cats, just name one.
Religion when practiced by fools is nothing but damaging to those around them.
If you had done any research into the topic, you would know that church leaders
do not say that homosexuality is an abomination. It is the action on those
feelings. We cannot be judged on things we do not act upon. You're attitude
towards these people who are attracted to those of the same gender is by far
more grievous. They put there face on the issue to try and make people
understand that they are people, who need love and support and are trying to get
rid of the many many MISCONCEPTIONS reguarding homosexuality that so many flaunt
on this forum. Actions are a choice. What we are tempted by is not. If you read
any articles on homosexuality by church leaders, you would have known this.
Marriage is not a cure, nore should be viewed as such. They are our children,
fathers, mothers, bishops and leaders and live excellent lives, but are torn
down in passing by those who understand nothing of the torment they suffer.
Compassion... did we forget that?
Correction | 5:51 p.m. Dec. 12, 2008
Sorry for a couple of missing words. But I need to point out one last point...
"If you read any article or talk of any church leaders about homosexuality
published within the past decade". That's a very important
qualification :D Miracle of forgiveness doesn't count ;) It's outdated
and does not reflect the current attitude of living apostles.
I give up | 8:21 p.m. Dec. 12, 2008
"Miracle of forgiveness doesn't count ;) It's outdated and does
not reflect the current attitude of living apostles."
I can't compose a post that will get past the moderator on this one. My best attempt is this: the verbal dancing that LDS members do when prior statements were wrong and damaging to individuals astounds me.
I can't compose a post that will get past the moderator on this one. My best attempt is this: the verbal dancing that LDS members do when prior statements were wrong and damaging to individuals astounds me.
Christopher | 10:58 p.m. Dec. 12, 2008
I am active, married, at BYU, and still gay (same-sex oriented.) I feel like
most of those who have commented either don't know what they are talking
about or are grossly misguided. Both the church's stance and BYU's
honor code are completely in line with this display, as proven by its
reinstatement. If you don't believe me, do a little research into the
matter. It is destructive and inapproriate to equate being gay to pornography
addicts and pedophiles. To tell the mother of a gay son to get over it is very
low indeed. To assert that Witibank has "secret private motives" to
promote gay marriage and homosexuality itself is just plain silly. Such
rhetoric is what drives people like me away from the church when it ought to be
welcoming us in. By telling the gay community at BYU to just shrink away proves
that the display is timely and much needed. I sincerely hope that its message
of understanding towards people like me is not utterly wasted on the BYU student
body, because the impression I am getting by these comments is that it is.
To Christopher | 12:27 a.m. Dec. 13, 2008
I am sorry that you, and many others, have been treated this way by people who
claim to "love the sinner." But I think this forum represents some of
the most judgmental members of the LDS church, who might want to read that
scripture about "he who is without sin..." Don't be discouraged -
we're not all like that. In fact, A LOT of us are compassionate and have
empathy, though we might not be able to understand your experience or what
it's like to be in your shoes.
I find it insulting when someone like Lambert equates it to "we know persecution" and "we all have struggles." He clearly has no idea - none of us do, unless we've experienced the same thing. To suggest that we do is presumptuous and reflects poorly on us.
I find it insulting when someone like Lambert equates it to "we know persecution" and "we all have struggles." He clearly has no idea - none of us do, unless we've experienced the same thing. To suggest that we do is presumptuous and reflects poorly on us.
Marcus | 9:01 a.m. Dec. 15, 2008
I'm suprised at the number of people who don't seem to have actually
read the article and are just jumping to conclusions, attacking the artist and
the gay community. First being openly gay does not mean that someone is
sexually active, just that they are open and honest about their attraction to
members of the same sex. Also, nowhere does the artist say or infer that he is
himself gay, quite the opposite. He states that he has some gay friends, a
statement that to me suggests that he himself is straight. His photographs
don't identify who in the photo is gay and who is the straight supporter,
thereby forcing viewers to test their views and prejudices of stereotypes, and
show that there differences between gay and straight individuals aren't so
great.
And for those who say that the artist did not act in good faith by criticizing BYU on his blog before hearing back; if BYU had acted in good faith and spoken to him before removing his work, he wouldn't have had anything to criticize, but they jumped to conclusions and ended up looking stupid.
And for those who say that the artist did not act in good faith by criticizing BYU on his blog before hearing back; if BYU had acted in good faith and spoken to him before removing his work, he wouldn't have had anything to criticize, but they jumped to conclusions and ended up looking stupid.
JL | 2:36 p.m. Dec. 22, 2008
BYU has the right to take down anything they deem to not be in accordance with
BYU rules. Here, they had concerned individuals that thought it best to take it
down. However, they reviewed it and found no offense. This art work could have
been about anything, and BYU has the right. Case closed. The fact that it dealt
with homosexuality just charged the issue to a different degree. Members of the
church as a whole, are uncomfortable with other members saying they are gay.
They liken it with anti-mormonism, excommunication and the such. I think BYU was
brave to allow it back. Make the Mormon community understand that being a gay
member means one thing--lonliness if you don't have the ability to overcome
it to a degree and get married. Admitting you have feelings is not a sin, only
not observing the law of chastity is the sin. I would love homosexuality to be
viewed as just a weakness. Not every SSA individual immediately decides to take
it to a sexual level. I myself deal with the weakness, and am married. Thanks to
BYU for their decision, the artist for the work, and the students for their
bravery.
- Page:
- < Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
- Teaching computer use to seniors 4:41 p.m.
- House GOP won't take no-tax pledge 4:39 p.m.
- Park City School District is nut-free 4:38 p.m.
- Plea deals in Orem robbery 4:30 p.m.
- Ogden food bank gets big donation 3:29 p.m.
- Eureka mines could reopen 3:12 p.m.
- Obama to meet with Senate Dems 3:06 p.m.
- Stock rise to new 2009 highs 2:59 p.m.
- Helicopter search for climbers 2:57 p.m.
- Afghan troop surge will take longer 2:56 p.m.
- Wet spot found in Powell's home
- Sources: Josh Powell hires attorney
- Y. opponent nearly smelled roses
- D-Will treats military families to party
- MWC looks better in basketball
- Pace happy not to be noticed
- Maynor amazed by L.A. fans
- High school football: All-region teams
- Jazz Extra: Starting 5
- Fun, easy gifts for the neighbors
- Palin signs books, chats with fans
178 - Nude bathers cited for lewdness151
- Gay-friendly curriculum phased out139
- LDS to emphasize helping needy124
- Jazz fall apart late at L.A.110
- Unga might enter NFL draft106
- BYU to wear royal blue uniforms100
- Disappearance called 'suspicious'96
- TV mom gives birth to 19th child95
- Choir, guests unwrap musical magic82
David Rankin, one of Utah's youngest and ablest astrophotographers has...
There was a time when free shipping was rare. This holiday season, you...
Can you tell I just got out of a budget meeting with Gov Gary Herbert?
Latest comments
I think it would be a mistake if Korver didn't get any playing time. He may...
I appreciate your new-found intelligence, yet you always start your posts...
You make a good point,but if Sloan has a choice between players that do it...
Here we go, lets get her opened back up.
Too bad - saw it - lived out the 80's - would rather watch the movie.....a...
"However, that being said, I can honestly say that if MY wife were missing,...
Landon Horne is the TE in the state
Ever get the feeling we are looking at a hostile takeover of our nation?
You don't understand the Gospel of Jesus very well. Yes, he wants us to...
I'm so sick of you. You are arrogant, self serving, and miss informed. I...
Advertisements
Intolerance thereof is no vice.
I am sick and tired of people using my tithing money to promote an agenda that is contrary to the teachings of the church that pays for 66% of his education.
Either support the churches positions or go to another university.