Deseret News | Reader comments: UDOT chief floats gas-tax change

Reader comments
UDOT chief floats gas-tax change

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Tax Gas More? | 11:18 a.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Them are fightin' words! Revenue is down because of gas prices? Unfreaking believable! What about when spring comes and gas sky rockets again? Will these legislative clowns say we have too much revenue we need to decrease gas tax? I dont know about you folks, but I am getting mad as heck at our leaders! I, Joe citizen, follow a strict budget and make ends meet. I demand our "smart" leaders to do the same! Seriously, how much more do citizens have to suffer before banding together and hunting down politicians?

MORE MORE MORE | 11:35 a.m. Dec. 3, 2008

UP THE TAX AND THEN BLAME THE DEMOCRATES...THATS GREAT WAY TO GET IT DONE.....SINCE THEY ARE TAKING OVER NEXT YEAR.....

Our Governor is a moron. . . | 11:38 a.m. Dec. 3, 2008

This is one of the most regressive tax ideas that I have ever seen. (Whatï¿½s next; bring back the sales tax on food?) Jon Jonï¿½s plan will nearly double the amount of taxes that we pay at the pump when gas prices increase to $3.50 and give us a tax break when prices are below $2.00. Does this make sense to anyone? All this will do is increase demand when gas is cheap. This, in turn, will drive up the price and increase the taxes that we all pay. It will also increase the price of food when our budgets are already stretched to pay the new tax at the pump, not to mention that it is logistically infeasible given the way that the gas tax is currently recovered. (When it leaves the refinery (Federal) or when the trucker delivers it (State).) The honeymoon is over. Whatever political capital Huntsman thinks that he earned in the election has been spent on his poor, and I mean POOR, policy initiatives.

Comments continue below

Vox Civitatis | 11:42 a.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Roads are heinously expensive, because to build them often requires land acquisition. There is no rational way to meet the State's transportation needs within the budgets we have now.

As much as it pains me to say this, we don't pay enough to build new roads and keep existing roads maintained. A percentage tax will help to provide better infrastructure for Utah citizens.

Is it going to cost me more? You bet. But I'm happy to pay, because it benefits everyone.

Anonymous | 11:44 a.m. Dec. 3, 2008

This is the same guy that raised bus and train fares calling it a "Gas Surcharge" because gas prices were so high and have we seen the "Gas Surcharge" revoked with gas prices the lowest in 5 years?

C.W. | 11:52 a.m. Dec. 3, 2008

NO SALE! But nice try! Despite folks being laid off right and left, home prices and real wages dropping like lead, state and local govts. seem to want to be able to "guarantee" themselves a revenue stream! I wonder if they could cut the wages of EVERYONE in state and local govt. who make over 100k by 10% and if THAT has ever been considered! There are an awful lot of high-priced bean counters in state and local govt. Why no effort to reign in any of those over-the-top salaries? The more you watch what state and local govts. do to cope with the downturn in the economy, the more they look like bankers and auto execs.!

Steve Glaser | 11:56 a.m. Dec. 3, 2008

I've got a much cheaper solution: carpool. We'd need a lot less roads if everyone carpooled to work (or at least everyone carpooled for whom it is practical). When we rely on government, we're going to pay a lot of taxes. Let's see if we can be self-reliant instead.

Unclear | 12:02 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

This isn't the same guy, that was UTA, totally separate group of people.

One question I have on making it a percentage at the pump, since 99% or more of the places require you to prepay how do you add sales tax at the pump, you don't know the total dollar amount until after you pump the fuel. So do the vendors have to trust you will go in and pay the additional sales tax?

Anonymous | 12:13 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Almost everyone in my family has lost their job within the last 3 months. My husband just lost his job last Monday. With the gas prices falling, I'm not as stressed out about how I'm going to feed my family. But now they want to raise the taxes on gas? Some people may not feel the difference if they raise gas taxes, but my family sure will!

here's an idea | 12:21 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

just have the truckers avoiding the weigh stations on a regular basis throughout the state ..pay up..as some of them are crazy drivers fresh out of cdl schools...and what happens when the prices go up again? Duh ...real vision there!

Lets all Vote Republican | 12:25 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

People have got to get rid of the idea that Republican equates to "good", Democrat equates to "bad". Especially in state politics. It amazed me after the political debacles and crooked politics over the past 4 years Utahn's voted for more of the same. It is not a Democrat vs Republican issue. One political part given control will not serve the peoples best interests. But, we have 2 more years of this until maybe the voters will get tired and final send a message to the Utah Republican Party.

Finally, to clarify one thing, I am no means a Democrat, I despise most of what the party stands for, however, I see no difference in the Republican party in Utah.

government growth | 12:29 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

When the economy is in recession, you should never pull out the "tax hike" card. It's bad mojo.

Lets face it, the state had record budgets recently and what did they do? They threw most of it at education and other projects instead of considering possible leaner years in the future or cutting taxes significantly more than they did. I, for one, would prefer to see all the "government growth" that occurred under Hunstman term 1 to be eliminated first before they're any talk about anything else.

Absolutely no tax hikes until the government is cut down to bare bones. That just pours on the pain.

UDOT unprepared... | 12:31 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

It seems to me that UDOT was unprepared for this economic slowdown. They assumed that with gas prices being so high they could plan a lot of huge projects not realizing that if gas came back down, they'd no longer have the money needed and then try to fix it by raising taxes. I remember someone from UDOT once blaming Utah commuters for cutting back on driving when gas was over $4, because it cut back on their budget. Just like banks and auto makers who got into their own messes, UDOT is now going to seek help from the government stimulus packages. Way to go guys. High-fives all around for being not so smart!

Family on hard times | 12:33 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

What if John Njord lost his job, with bills stacking up, with the high cost of food prices going up due to the high fuel cost over the last several years, along with power and gas companies pushing up their prices all the time and now with the country in a recession do you really think that he would like to see a increase in the fuel sales tax to fix Utah roads now?

sickofUDOT | 12:34 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Why do have to spend billions of dollars making all of our overpasses look like the Taj Mahal? Why do they rip Weber Canyon up every other year and completely redo a brand new road? Stop wasting our money and then you wouldn't need more of it.

Congestion Pricing | 12:35 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Congestion pricing is a better solution than raising gas taxes or sales taxes (legislature is more likely to raise sales taxes than gas taxes and earmark them for transportation).

The largest single cost in the state transportation budget is expanding existing roads and building new roads to handle rush hour traffic. Maintenance costs are much lower than construction costs. Since our transportation budget is driven largely by rush hour demands, congestion pricing is a more focused approach than raising sales or gas taxes.

End it | 12:35 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Lets have a revote and get all those clowns up on the hill that want to raise our taxes out of office.

to Unclear | 12:39 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Your name says it. Do you realize that you've always been paying tax on your fuel purchase? It's built in the price already. So when you pre-pay, that amount includes the tax. No need to trust people to come in and pay the tax afterwards.

Aaron | 12:41 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

How about we cut the fat off of the Utah government and all governments every where. Raising taxes is a terrible idea. Look at the country of Georgia, they lowered their tax rate to a flax tax of 12 and half percent and their economy boomed. Entitlement programs and other wasteful progams are draining governmments everywhere. It's time to be responsible and govern within our means. What a concept!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous | 12:44 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

The tax is 24.5 cents a gallon so why does it need to change. It is by the gallon not the cost of the gas. So if I pay $1.99 a gallon 24.5 cent goes to the state if I pay $2.99 a gallon the state gets the same 24.5. So is it because people are not buying as much gas that you want to up the tax. Let wait and see what will happen. I agree they will never lower the tax on gas.

Regressive Tax | 12:49 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

What is the salary of John Njord?? What benefits does he have?? When he retires will he get full benefits?? I'm retired and the company I retired from recently stopped all of my benefits because they "can't afford them anymore".
Maybe I should have gotten a job on the State gravy train like Mr. Njord.
And, and we all know our governor is a godzillionaire so yeah lets tax the guy going to work a little more. When does the tea party start and where???

Anonymous | 12:56 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

UDOT is one of the worst managed organizations in our state and certainly one of the biggest abusers of tax dollars. Of course they need more money!

c4mackk | 1:15 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

John Njord does'nt care what the cost of gas is because he uses his state credit card to fil up his orange UDOT Truck that gets 9 MPG and sleeps 6 employee's. 1 to do the job, 1 to go get coffe and donuts. and 4 employees to hold up their shovels. UDOT is the worst mangaed department of the state. DO NOT RAISE THE GAS TAX. I am tried of grabbing my ankles for wasteful government.

STUPID | 1:23 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

What a STUPID idea!!!! Gas is finally bearable to buy again and now "the Man" wants to tax the little man more and more.

Now wait a minute.... | 1:28 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

During 2008 we have had gas prices at the two extremes. It was about $4.30 a gal here in St. George and about that same price elsewhere. Now we have an extreme low at about $1.67 in some places in Utah. The gas tax revenue is the same for these 2 extremes. Also during all of 2008, the traffic around St. George, Utah County, SLC and north never really changed. The roads were jammed with people driving regardless of the gas prices. So how in the world could revenues be down? I'll bet the same amount of fuel was flowing through the system this entire year. So are the revenues really down, or is this some political scam to gather more money to squander? OR, does the state see another huge gas price jump on the horizon and they want to cash in on it.

MMM | 1:39 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

WHAT ABOUT IF WE "THE PEOPLE" TROUGH OUR POLITICIANS CAN REGULATE HOW THE OIL COMPANIES WORK AND SEE HOW MUCH ARE THEY MAKING AND HOW MUCH IS TAX ON THE PRICE, THEY STILL STEALING AND THEY WILL DO FOR EVER, THAT HOW THAT MAFIA WORKS!!! WITHOUT ANY REGULATION!!!

Bud | 1:42 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Hey There , Whats The Matter With You, Comman Sence Would Dictate WAIT for Awhile? Then Step Back And Reavaluate The Situation, Dont Be So Damn Gready,People Are Hurting Write Know..

itsjustme | 1:43 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

When the price of gas increases again (and it will), does that mean the tax will go back to the way it is currently? I doubt it. Why is it that the leaders of our state, and the country for that matter, can never make ends meet with what they have? I live on a budget, as do most normal Americans. Our leaders should also be required to do the same.

At the rate this country is headed, soon we will just give every penny we earn to one government entity or another, and be grateful to receive some table scraps in return.

That type of government is called communism, and heaven help us if/when we get to that point.

easy solution | 1:46 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

just say NO. Raods are OK, I drive them satewide so I know. There is enough repair going on as it is with all the problems I run into around the area. With the economy as it is, roads can wait. Just say NO!!!!

Time to "Change" Gas Tax | 1:53 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Don't you mean "INCREASE" the gas tax?

Gee, how hard was that?

Thank goodness we live in a "Conservative" state where there's no such thing as a bad tax. The public will so willingly pay for any tax proposed.

Guaglione | 2:04 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

The odd thing is that when people drive less (meaning less tax revenue to UDOT) the maintenance needs on the roads decrease (fewer cars driving on the roads = less maintenance). I don't see that coming up anywhere in their calculations...

Anonymous | 2:06 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Is Utah gonna ask Prez Obama for some road funds? The same Utah that voted 75% for McCain?

Dumb idea | 2:12 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Gasoline usage is relatively consistent, regardless of the price of gas - because most of our driving isn't discretionary, we tend to drive about the same amount no matter how much it costs to fill the tank. Commuting to work, taking kids to school, going to the grocery store and church etc account for about 90% of gas usage by private citizens. The difference between high use and low use extremes is only about 10%.

So, when tax is based on the number of gallons sold, as it is now, tax revenues will be relatively consistent. But if it were tied to the retail price of gas, the amount of revenue would swing wildly, resulting in a complete inability of the government to anticipate what actual revenues would be. For example, taxes collected in November of this year would have been barely half the amount of taxes collected in September!

The desirability of simply maintaining the consistency and predictability of tax revenue under the current structure reveal this proposal for change to be an absolutely idiotic concept.

arc | 2:14 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

I agree, the answer is NO. I don't want to pay $1 per gallon tax when the gas prices hit $4 again.

They can't afford to lower the rate when it gas is "cheap", and I can't afford to pay more for gas, due to an increase in taxes when gas is not "cheap".

billj | 2:26 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

If all you die hard democrats out there are really trying to blame this on the republicans, get a clue. For the past two years the democrats have had control of both the senate and the house, WHO do you think has been making the bad decisions, the DEMOCRATS.
PUT a bigger tax on the people in the metropolitan areas were they are using all the road money anyway!!!! People away from the Wasatch front do not benefit from mass transit or UTA!!!

action | 3:03 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Throw the sods out!

lowonoil | 3:14 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

WE MIGHT AS WELL BUILD PYRAMIDS IN THE DESERT as build new roads, or expand the capacity of existing ones. They will not be needed. The permanent peak of world oil production has already occured, or will soon. No other energy source on the horizon is adequate to support the institution of mass motoring.
The future will involve much less driving around. We will do whatever we have to to adapt to this reality. The existing road system will soon seem quite spacious to the lessening numbers of vehicles using it. We need to focus our dwindling highway funds on maintaining the most important parts of our existing road infrastructure, and not impoverish ourselves further spending money to build unnecessary new roads.

Q | 3:25 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

How is UDOT's revenue down with gas taxes being a flat 24.5 cents a gallon REGARDLESS if we are paying $4 a gallon or $1 a gallon? This is a complete joke, the reduction in gas prices isn't costing UDOT a cent, unless we have all stopped driving...which i doubt! This is a ploy to get more money out of us while prices are low. DO NOT FALL FOR IT!!!

Makes little sense | 3:30 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

If the tax is currently at a flat rate per gallon then why the need to increase the tax. We pay per gallon and so more taxes should be collected when the gasoline is cheaper, because we are going to use more and are paying by the gallon. Why the need to make it a percentage of the price or is this just a deceptive way of saying while gas is low we make the current tax the percentage of the low price and then set this as the pecenatge and then when it is $4 a gallon - we are then being raped and pillaged!!! Politicians think they are so smart. Quit manipulating people that are hurting in this current economic downturn!!

Take from UTA | 3:33 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

UTA has a lot of money, why not take from them to pay for more roads? Seriously, with all the money that the UTA has for light rail and front runner trains, they have a comparable budget to UDOT, but they only benefit 1-5% of the population, while the other 95-99% still needs to drive cars and use roads. Why do we spend billions of $$$ on UTA projects that benefit such a small percentage of our society. We need some politicians with the brains to look at the priorities of the state and of government in general and then allocate our funds accordingly. NO MORE TAXES, just start cutting wasteful programs!!

Reduce gas tax | 3:38 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Now that the price of gas has finally come down significantly, I for one am driving a little more - when the roads are fairly clearly I might add.

Therefore I am now paying more gasoline tax. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Surely this scenario argues for a reduction in gasoline taxes not an increase.

Increase All The Taxes! | 3:42 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Gov. Aide: "Gov. Huntsman, our tax revenues are getting low."
Gov. Huntsman: "Well, we must increase it, raise the income tax rates!"
Gov. Aide: "We had to shutdown some road projects due to lack of funds."
Gov. Huntsman: "Well, we must restart them, raise the gas & road taxes!"
Gov. Aide: "More teachers want more money."
Gov. Huntsman: "Well, we must pay for good education, raise the sales & property tax rates!"
Gov. Aide: "Pres. Obama wants to passify the people (peasants) with a stimulus check."
Gov. Huntsman: "We must tax that stimulus check!"
Gov. Aide: "The people (peasants) are loosing their jobs, not driving as much & companies are leaving the state."
Gov. Huntsman: "Well those vehicles were gas-guzzlers & the companies were ruining the environment! Good riddance!"
Gov. Aide: "Gov. Huntsman, our tax revenues are getting low."

Johny Fairplay | 3:45 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

billj, article is referring to the state tax on gasoline.

BTW, urban residents subsidize the building and maintenance of rural roads, the tax base doesn't exist in rural areas to fund these activities.

Tax payer | 3:56 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Sure, I can finally afford to drive to work, so lets add a tax to it. Government has to learn to do what the rest of us have to: tighten the belt when things get tight.

whistleblower | 4:04 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Roads are very, very expensive because they are designed for heavy truck traffic. One heavy truck does as much damage to a roadway as 15,000 passenger vehicles. The trucking industry doesn't pay nearly it's share because of powerful nationwide political influence.

States surrounding Utah love Utah because Utah makes them so look good. Utah never can find enough money to do the job right the first time, but can always find the money to do it over again, and over again, and over again, even if it takes a tax hike.

Utah needs a real pavement management system and plan.

Please Read the Article | 4:09 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

UDOT is not saying revenues are down because the price of gas is down. If anything, a decrease in the price of gas would boost consumption and therefore produce more revenue since the tax is a fixed 24.5 cents. If anything, gas tax revenues have been down the last few months because demand for gas has gone down. But gas useage should not affect UDOT's budget because with less people driving their cars on the road means less need for maintenance, less congestion and less need for expansion. A gas sales tax percent is about the dumbest idea our there. By the way, UDOT did not say that gas revenues are down per se, but that they were simply anticipating budget cuts since state tax revenues are down. Budgets across the board are going to have to be cut.

Steve Glaser | 5:08 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

I wish UDOT would think like a Department of Transportation instead of a Department of Highways. They only have one solution to congestion - more highways. So they need more money. If they thought like a real dept of transportation, they would need a lot less money.

Out there | 5:12 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Why not cut back on Projects? Economic slowdown. Cut back. Utah lawmakers are so fiscally liberal as to remind me of DC politics. It is amazing. Spend spend spend. They jacked up the gas tax back when they got the Olympics with the promise to lower it back when the I-15 project was over. The politicians (UDOT being politicians, yet unelected) never cut back spending. It has only increased. Get real! Reign it in. You don't have to have it all. Spend only what you have, if you must even do that. Don't punish the taxpayer because the economy has changed and you cannot feed your bloated budget.

mark shea | 11:35 p.m. Dec. 3, 2008

Changing the charging method from a cents per gallon methodology to a percentage model is a seriously flawed philosophy to pursue and I am surprised that UDOT and our Governor are even thinking about it, as 1) gas prices have been on the increase steadily for the past three years and they have only relaxed in the past 30-45 days and already our taxing authorities want to attack this short lived period of relief from sky high gas prices, 2) it is extremely likely that oil prices will rise again to double what our current prices are as once the global recession is over the demand will increase together with oil prices, 3) there have been no large discoveries of oil anywhere in the world which insure that the price of oil will stay low as it is currently, 4) there have not been any large implementation of any alternative fuels or highly fuel effecient vehicles which would help to lessen demand, 5) OPEC has already considered reducing its production in order to boost oil prices. Thus, let's not change the method of charging the tax to a percentage based system but instead retain the current method cents per dollar

Ridgerunner | 1:47 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008

No need to raise taxes. I heard UDOT was going to lay off most of their road repair crews this spring. Reason: the Japanese invented a shovel that will stand up all by itself!

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