Deseret News | Smith's journals made available to public for 1st time

Reader comments
Smith's journals made available to public for 1st time

159 comments | Read story

Michaelitos | 9:50 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

@ Restored Church 9:24am.

I sincerely doubt that you are an "active Mormon" with "sincere questions". The questions that you do raise are very easily answered, in fact. However, your purpose is not to get a real answer. If that were the case, you would be asking your Bishop, Elder's quorum president, home teacher, etc. Not posting it in a web forum.

it is cheaper at Barnes and Nobl | 9:51 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

i just ordered the book at barnes and noble, it is only 35 dollars there. I can't believe how expensive this book is, it better be really cool! i am excited to get it, i just hope it doesn't take a long time to get here (i think it may have been backordered). It may be worth paying full price at Deseret if it leaves right away.

To: Restored Church guy | 9:57 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

1st: Christ lived to the Mosaic law, but it doesn't matter if he was or wasn't a polygamist. Prominent biblical figures who were polygamists under the Mosaic law include Moses, David, and Solomon (to name a few).

2nd: A careful study of the Books of Acts will support a change of the Sabbath occurred with the early Saints - but this isn't a doctrine of salvation (only of commitment - comparable to asking modern saints to live the Word of Wisdom) so I wouldn't dwell too much on it. This change not only recognized the resurrection of Christ (coming the day after the Jewish sabbath) but also the dawning of a era that the Mosaic law had been fulfilled - I view as testing the commitment of early Jewish converts. I encourage you to seek this out on your own. I make no claims to a perfect understanding of this subject.

Comments continue below

Kiana | 10:08 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Oh my this is so cool! We are so blessed to be able to get these materials. Don't take them for granted. Cannot wait to get a copy.

Can we get reassurance? | 10:15 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Hopefully the church will leave this journal as it is and not edit or delete parts of it,

Is the church willing to certify that this hasn't happened?

Ing | 10:15 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Not that it'll matter to a lot of people, but whether you believe in the LDS religion or not, this is a hugely significant publication--it's a matter of history. I can't say much about the actual books themselves, not having seen them yet, but I'm sure they're very well done. Remember, this is not a propaganda exercise, this is a scholarly project, funded by a philanthropic grant.

Henry Drummond | 10:37 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

I believe these journals were published before. Does anybody know if there is new material here or have they just done a nicer version and added commentary?

I would also be interested in knowing if they are going to publish the "Book of the Law of the Lord" which also contained journal entries.

Cindy | 10:51 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Hello, You good people need to snap out of it and have a good day.

Paul G. Sheldon, Sarasota, FL | 10:59 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

As a convert from 1971 and a previously active Catholic I am thrilled that this volume is now availale. Surely I will learn many lessons from it about our Prophet.

I was saddened that the headline read "Smith's journals made available..." In my opinion his full name and title would have been much more respectful in keeping with his important place in history.

The Deseret News Staff needs to be more aware of the negative effect this shoddy verbiage could have on potential readers or converts.

Restored Church | 11:04 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Michaelitos,

I really don't care what you think.

To: Restored Church Guy

I'm not talking about the hebrew church as established by Moses. I'm talking about the Church of Jesus Christ. That is what was restored. The Hebrew church never went away. It still exists today (without polygamy). I just don't see how polygamy is part of the church of Jesus Christ.

Regarding the Sabbath, it is not the Jewish Sabbath. It is THE Sabbath. I have done extensive research on this and it was never changed to Sunday in the NT. There is nothing that supports this premise. One scripture saying the brethren gathered on the first day and broke bread does not indicate a changing of the Sabbath. If it did, then why was the Sabbath changed by Constantine to be on the same holy day that was celebrated by the Pagans? Sunday - Sun God. Constantine did this so that all the slaves/servants would take one day off during the week. Notice that he (being Pagan) did not change the Pagan holy day to be Saturday (actually sundown Friday to sundown Saturday). Please give me solid proof that says it should be Sunday. I know better.

Cats | 11:05 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

These papers are the most comprehensive project of materials either by or relating to Joseph Smith that have EVER been compiled. These documents have come from many sources within and without the Church. Each document has been examined and certified AT LEAST THREE TIMES before it has been included. The entire collection will fill approximately 30 volumes.

The papers include journals, histories, revelations, legal documents, court records, real estate transactions, banking records, etc., etc. They include every known document that that was ever produced by Joseph Smith, cause to be produced by him or relates to him and his life. IT IS VERY COMPREHENSIVE. It is really a work for scholars to use in doing research, but it is also very interesting for anyone who wants to go straight to the source.

I have the first volume and am just loving reading it so far. It involves his personal journals from 1832-1839.

I wish people on here would stop claiming the Church is editing it or hiding something. The Church is not afraid to let anything come out. THERE IS NOTHING TO HIDE.

To: Michaelitos | 9:50 a.m. | 11:07 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Its attitudes like yours that lead others to the idea that Mormons are extremely judgmental.

Many of you... | 11:11 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

...just want to find out if Joseph wrote about his 30+ wives or any other torrid affairs such as money-digging.

I would prefer to read anything Emma Smith had to say concerning Joseph's "misgivings".

These are well documented events in early Joe Smith history. Hopefully the horse's mouth will have a comment or two about them.

To Restored Church also | 11:13 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

As per your second question, the answer is "we don't know", though some early church leaders weighed in on it in the Journal of Discourses.

Re: Cats | 11:28 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

What Cats said is true, but I would add that this is actually a suprising move on the part of the LDS Church. Actually, there will be some things that will cast Joseph Smith in a negative light, but also things that are positive as well as things that don't fit into either category.

Jan Shipps and many other non-LDS historians are applauding this and if anyone was going to spear-head it it would have had to be the LDS Church. That said, these works are not Sunday school manuals or missionary tracts--they are reprints of historical documents.

The value of this is mainly scholarly (its not intended for general consumption) but I think its great that lay people are interested.

Bear Rug | 11:28 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

". . . The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name, and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee;"

This is a great description of the Trolls.

Tickles | 11:30 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

I am excited to read about the life of Joseph Smith from his eyes. He accomplished sooo much in such a short life. Whether good or bad I think he is an amazing man.

To Bear Rug | 11:28 a.m. | 11:39 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Matthew 24:11 "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many."

This a great description also.

to restored church | 11:41 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Sorry but the "hebrew church" Judaism, still allows for polygamy.

Concerned! | 12:03 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

I really feel that any person or organization who spends time, energy, or money to put down another person or organization down is not of God. God edifies and looks for the good in others.

I believe Satan's biggest tool is to "de-religionize" people through "anti" groups of individuals. Their intent is to tear down belief yet they offer nothing to replace them. Whether Anti-Mormon, Anti-Catholic, Anti-baptist... It is all the same.

God is a god of love and those who are really his true followers have that love in their hearts and have tolerance for others. I believe there are wonderful people in every religion who have this type of love.

As for Joseph Smith, whether you believe he wrote the Book of Mormon or whether you believe he translated it through the power of God, the reading of it will tell you of his character either way. To judge a person on here-say is not really fair. Christ was judged by many on here-say. We have to be careful for with that same judgment that we judged, we will be judged. I want God to judge me on who I was not on here-say.

CatholicMan | 12:38 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

I am Catholic. I will always be Catholic. That being said, I spend hours of reading about other Faiths, their people, and why they believe what they believe. These journals by the man LDS consider a modern day Prophet must be fascinating. All the people who find it necessary to ridicule must be devoid of anything awe inspiring in their lives. Anyone who has not delved into the history of the Restoration Churches of 19th Century has missed one of the most interesting parts of American History. Of those groups none stands out like the Mormons. And to have his journals available to read is going to be for me a journey back to the time of Joseph Smith. To be able to read his words is going to give me some great insight to that period. I cannot understand why people just don't get it. Each person will read these papers either through the eyes of an historian or through the eyes of a believer. It matters not. They will become a source for all: the believer, the skeptic and the non-believer. I am just glad to see this scholarly work come to fruition. Thanks.

For Restored Church & Others | 12:46 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

If you go to wwwdotfairldsdotorg [had to spell out the dots because DesNews won't post an actual link] and search "Saturday Sabbath," you'll find some answers to your Saturday/Sunday questions. FairLDS is a good (not perfect) resource for such questions.

A brief synopsis:

Early Christian writers (before Constantine) discussed the switch from Saturday to Sunday as practiced by the early apostles, based on fulfillment of the Law of Moses and on Christ's resurrection on the first day of the week. LDS branches in Israel meet on Saturday rather than Sunday, as the particular day is not considered critically important. To keep the Sabbath law as originally given, you would also have to honor the Sabbath year every seventh year and forgive all debts to you, etc. in that year, not kindle a fire on the Sabbath, etc., or face being stoned to death.

Anonymous | 1:01 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

I find beliefs fascinating. I've waded through Mormon history trying to understand my family's involvement.

I was reading a comment about beliefs. The comments concerned Eastern religions but it applies to all. You will never have the time to read every verse of every faith. You can judge the result belonging to a religion my the religion's members.

Every forum about Mormonism has Mormons writing comments simalar to this remark.

"And to those detractors--I feel sorry for you. I know you are just trying to justify yourselves and make yourselves feel better about the choices you have made. I really hope that someday you will find some meaning in your pathetic little lives."

Can we ever know a person's thoughts? If you find much comfort in your church, why the digs?

If you aren't LDS your commended to live a pathetic life? You wonder why people find you arrogant?

I'm not buying this book. I'm sure it's interesting. I read this frankly because I find the intense interest in this baffling. It's interesting to see the extend of interest.

To "Restored Church" | 1:03 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Re: your question about the Sabbath Day being changed, I refer you to the writings of Justin Martyr - a Christian who was killed for his testimony around 100 AD (about 200 years BEFORE Constantine). He is very explicit in showing that the early Christians met and held religious services on the "first day of the week", which is Sunday.

If you are looking for scriptural sources, I would point you to Hosea 2:11 (the Lord would change Israel's sabbaths); Col 2:16 (which shows that the early Christians were judged of the Jews because they did not follow the Jewish Sabbath) and D&C 59 which commands us to offer up our sacraments on the "Lord's Day" (note that this revelation was given on a Sunday).

I hope you find your answers...

AB | 1:23 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

I think its kind of the feeling Noah had when he had built a strong sturdy boat, and he knew others were laughing at him. He had work to do while he built that ship, and he knew others not care about building or even thought he was crazy and stupid. Noah kept moving along and did not care what others thought and probably felt a little sorry for those that were just not getting it. The information the Mormons have been given with the Book of Mormon is just as valuable as Noah's boat. They probably don't think there better, but maybe just sad that your not getting what they understand with this book. there are miracles, safety, warnings , prophecies, and other in sights that can literally save your life. For those of you that mock this book and this prophet I do feel bad for you,because you are really not getting it.

lynn in tn | 1:27 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Joseph Smith - Prophet of the Most High God.

Good Grief! | 1:27 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

What a confused bunch of people.

McKay | 1:29 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

I'm paraphrasing a bit but Joseph Smith said something along the lines of "you can leave; but you can never leave it alone" I'm not saying that everybody who posts something negative regarding the church is an excommunicated member, but I believe there is a lot of truth to what Joseph said... I have seen it with many of my own friends who grew up with the church but have since left... there seems to be this infatuation with the church and they just can't seem to let it go and move on with their lives.. It seems like they are always trying to find validation for their leaving the church..

to: concerned! | 1:30 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

You got it all wrong...Christ was not judged by here-say. He was accused of being the Son of God. Those that were at His trial heard Him speak of being the Son of God. This is why Pilate washed his hands...come on...read your Bible. Anybody with common sense knows that you can't judge a person never knowing who they are. Many of these are comments by readers...not judgement.

Saturday? Sunday? Who cares? | 1:39 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

The Lord commands us to give him one day in seven, I don't think it matters so much to Him which one it is.

explanation of interest | 1:56 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

To a latter-day saint having this book or books(especially the journals) has to be like having an intimate record of Moses would be to a Jew, or of Martin Luther for a Lutheran.

I'm not a Lutheran but there's no doubt about the importance of Luther historically and as an individual. I have a copy of Luther's "Table Talk" which I enjoy immensely and which provides a much more detailed look at the man than some historical gloss or scholarly dissertation. It is the man himself speaking out on his core thoughts and beliefs in his own way.

Anonymous | 2:00 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Enough!

Time & A Season | 2:10 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

This is awesome that this book is available to read which will allow the reader to really get to know Joseph's heart and soul and understand the depths of it.

There is always a Time and a Season for specific things. For some however - this might be too soon to be released to the world who is not ready for such sacred recordings. You know the saying:
"Pearls before swine?"

Hopefully, those people will get "beyond" their negative opinions of Joseph, and truly be touched by the experiences he went through.

BTW - why do most of these entries have NOTHING to do with the article? It's about a book being released, nothing more.

People - seriously - stay on the subject!

Richard | 2:32 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

The FLDS are obtaining many copies. He is our leader.

Cats | 2:35 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

To Anonymous 1:01: When I referred to "pathetic little lives" I was not referring to non members of the LDS Church. I was referring to those who attack the Church. And what I said was true. Most of these people are members or former members who are trying to justify the fact that they have left the Church. They have to keep it up because if it turns out that the Church is true, they have made a terrible mistake. So, they have to keep attacking to justify themselves. That was what I was referring to. Please don't try to use that to infer anything else.

Moroni | 2:44 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Well, after reading many of these posts I am now certain that Moroni was a true prophet because he told Joseph Smith that his name will be had for good and evil in all the world. So, it is nice to know that Moroni's prophesy came true and is coming true as we speak. I guess if Moroni was a prophet, then he really was a resurrected being sent from the presence of God to the boy Joseph and therefore the Book of Mormon must be true, and therefore the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is exaclty what it proports to be. WOW, thank you all for your enlightening comments.

VirginiaMormon | 3:34 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

>>If the LDS church is the restored church of Jesus Christ, then was Jesus a polygamist? And, why wasn't the true Sabbath day restored?

The scriptures don't addresses Christ's marital status; accordingly, the Church has no official position on the subject. However, if Christ was a perfect living example of the gospel in its entirety, then it's not unreasonable to assume that He was married given God's original commandment to Adam and Eve.

The Sabbath Day was not moved to Saturday simply because the day of the week on which we worship is not important so long as the day is dedicated to Him as a day of worship and rest. If we attend our meetings, spend time with our families, tend to the widow and the orphan, visit the needy, and comfort the sick, God is not so petty that He would ignore it all and condemn us just because it was all done on a Monday or a Wednesday. The actions and the devotion are what is important. The day on which they are done is not. Accordingly, Sunday is just as suitable a Sabbath Day as Saturday or any other day.

the truth | 4:13 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

There's not a "true" sabbath day,

time is only numbered to man.

The calendar we currently use was created by man not God.

The important thing is that we rest on the seventh day from our labors, and give our devotions and thanks to God and devote ourselves to sacred things, duties, and activities as proper for the sabbath.

Any day used for the sabbath currently is simply done out of tradition or because someone look at the calendar and decided the first day of the week should be the sabbath.

But neither God nor Jesus ever said which day to observes the sabbath, just that a weekly sabbath should be observed.

As long as you observe a sabbath you are following the only commandment given on the subject.

The sabbath has always been around and hasn't needed to be restored, so muc as it's meaning.

Even Jesus in his time had to teach what's okay to do on the sabbath.

sidenote: early on the Church observed the sabbath on thursday, before later changing it to sunday, make of that as you will.

As far as Jesus and polygamy: we can't answer questions that we haven't been given answers to.

RE: Restored church | 4:18 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Don't get caught up in the letter of the law,

It's the spirit of law, the higher law, that is most important.

RE: Restored Church | 4:23 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

AS it is written in Book of Mormon, it is not Good if one must be commanded in all things.

So, Don't get caught up in the letter of the law,

It's the spirit of law, the higher law, that is most important.

hdtom1 | 4:29 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

so are these" papers" also going to be made public?

Alex | 4:31 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

VirginiaMormon:

"The actions and the devotion are what is important. The day on which they are done is not. Accordingly, Sunday is just as suitable a Sabbath Day as Saturday or any other day. "

Not to mention that we have way of knowing (other than by revelation) whether that which we call Saturday or Sunday actually corresponds to the exact day of the week decreed when the law of the Sabbath was given. Over thousands of years, do we really know that we are synchronized with its original observance?

Thelma | 4:48 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

RE* RE> Restored Church,
What higher law are you talking about? Please explain to us who are unlearned so that we will know what the tar-nation you are talking about???????

Straining at Gnats | 4:49 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

RE: Restored Church

Why does what day is "The Sabbath" matter? That's like getting hung up on whether the gates of heaven swing open or roll open. Latter-day Saints in Israel go to church on Saturday, on the Jewish Sabbath. Why worry about what the Sabbath is on? We also don't even use the same calendar that people used to use. It's time to just worry about the basics of religion - faith, repentance, etc... and stop worrying about trivialities. I mean that most respectfully, of course.

Come to know him | 5:02 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

What a beautiful thing! Though some despised him, Joseph had a love for all men. I find no dishonor in seeking after Joseph's words, which is more than I can say for some of the comtemptuous comments of his naysayers. Who are they, that I should give ear to them. Would they even know the Savior, when they don't come to know His servants. By their fruits ye shall know them, whether they be good or evil. Joseph's faith and works were good.

Joseph's name will always be held for good with me. Though his name will be both esteemed and hated among all nations, it is only with greatest esteem in the Heavens. Save only Jesus Christ, no man has done more for the kingdom of God on Earth. A fullness of truths are restored. The kingdom is established once more on the Earth, never to be taken away again. Praise God, almighty.

And praise to the man, that communed with Jehovah, for Jesus truly annointed that prophet, that seer, Joseph Smith.

Oxy Moroni | 5:05 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Re: McKay | 1:29 p.m.

I agree it is fascinating... The reason I am fascinated is because it (Mormonism) is so far fetched, it's amazing to me that an intelligent, free thinking person could believe any of it. Let alone devote their lives to it.

I'm not Mormon and never have been. I don't leave it alone because frankly I want to convert people to a way of thinking that differs from what has been engrained into their psyche by the Mormon Church. It amazes me that Mormons take so much offense to somebody trying to change their beliefs and tell them everything they believe is a lie or untrue. I mean, Isn't that the very thing that LDS missionaries do on a daily basis?

to Restored Church | 5:06 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Some people don't seem to understand that we don't believe polygamy is necessary at all for salvation--it was necessary for the church's survival (and to care for and protect women) during a turbulent point in history.

Spendy eh?? | 5:10 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Wow, $1350 sounds like an awful lot of money to fork out for the whole set. If it was something SOOO important, you'd think that the Church would give them away. Sounds to me like they are just out to make another buck from it's devoted followers.

sabat mater | 5:26 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

"Why does what day is "The Sabbath" matter?"

Very cute! Did you intend the pun?

To 50:6 PM Restored | 5:41 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

TO Protect women "MY FOOT" you say! That's the biggest, darnedest, conniving lie I have ever heard. That is calling everyone stupid!

Add your comment

Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.

Words Remaining

E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.