Deseret News | Reader comments: 'GameDay' right about Hall being the game-changer

Reader comments
'GameDay' right about Hall being the game-changer

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Its coming to a boil . . . | 12:42 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Good comments today. This is all coming to a head and in the somewhat legal-happy society in which we live, there is no way this is going to continue as-is without someone crying foul and hitting the BCS for what it is: a Monopoly.

Enjoy the contract ESPN . . . it will be short-lived, at least as you now have it defined.

bowl? | 8:10 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

when do we find out if byu is going to the blue rug bowl?

Max Hall -- Utah MVP | 8:36 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

I heard on SportsCenter this morning that Max Hall was intercepted two more times yesterday while trying to get to the cranberry sauce?!

Comments continue below

Thomas | 8:40 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Let's see, I seem to recall watching ESPN College Football on ABC. Has there been any discussion if ESPN will NOT air BCS games on ABC?

Football fan... | 8:48 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

ESPN broadcasts games through ABC, I don't know if you've watched the big saturday night games, but they're all done through ESPN on ABC. The BCS is to big of a money maker not to have these games on network TV.

Old Coach | 8:54 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

I have been evaluating teams for a long time, and I have analyzed the U-Y game three times. Max Hall was not the culprit in that game as the blogs keep suggesting. The flat out truth is the skill of Utah's defense. There were three more potential interceptions that could have been and in all of them, the skill of the linebackers and DB's was amazing. While the Defensive line was forcing untimely throws, the cover was crafting deceptive positions. The Pro playing Manning boys of NY and Indiana would have had a rough time against Utah. Let's give credit where credit is due and not on the shoulders of "poor Max" who just ran into a defensive buzz saw last week. Or point to where the target could be on the real hero - former defensive guru-recruiter now top guy Whittingham. Defensive teams like that don't just show up over night or by accident. Or am I the first to use the phrase "Defense wins games" Hmmm - Sounds vaguely familiar.

TV | 9:26 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

To football fan and Thomas, you are right about ESPN on ABC, but the new contract with the BCS has the games on ESPN only. A note to Scott: Why is there nothing about the miniscule rating the MLS title game got on a national basis? Yes, the game is mildly popular here in Utah, mainly because it is a cheap sport for parents to let their kids play, but nationally it is still a big yawn. Stop being such a cheerleader and get back to critiquing local TV and radio sports like you used to.

NorCalBlue | 9:36 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Any defense can shine when they have taken the time to study the films that show QB tendencies. Max does not appear to go through progressions, he appears to lock into his favorites and often forces the ball to them.

This was a game not unlike the TCU game when the opposition was well prepared for the Y's tendencies, and the OC did nothing to adjust. A few trick plays do not create an imaginative, successful offense. Max did not call the plays he tried to execute and he feel right into the Utes trap.
The blame lies not only at his fet but also in the Lap of Coach Anae.
Hats of to the Utes for doing their homework. I'm looking forward to vintage 2009 on our turf. It will be interesting to see how the Cougs game plan and adjust for their bowl game.

May the Utes do the conference proud with a BCS victory - please don't get so wapped up in the victory over the Y that you forget to show up in the BCS bowl game. We are counting on you to win and win big! Let's show the BCS bullies MWC strength!

Don't blame Hall alone | 9:49 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

The blame for the Utah loss goes to Anae and Hall. Anae should have called more running plays to give Hall a break and open up the pass. You also have to give credit to the clearly-prepared Ute defense.

Anonymous | 9:51 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

When you only throw consistently to two or three receivers, what do you expect?

It wasn't unusual for the great quarterbacks at BYU to complete passes to 7, 8, or even 9 or more different receivers.

COUGAR CRAZY | 10:09 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

GO COUGS!!!

Don't Throw Max | 10:14 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Max don't throw it. I am not wearing a Football shirt. It's just RED.

re: Old coach | 10:26 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

I disagree with your opinion and offer mine instead. Yes utah has a very good defense but the way the wheels came off for Max in the 4th qtr points to other factors as far as I'm concerned. It was 27-24 through 3 quarters of play and BYU was driving for another score.

If utah's defense is so good that they could have given Peyton and Eli Manning a rough time as you say, then why were they only that effective in the 4th qtr and not in the first 3 qtrs? I'm wondering if Max was playing with a mild concussion. Of course on a couple of those INTs I don't think Max could be blamed since it looked like Pitta may have run the wrong route on a timing pattern on one and George bobbled and deflected a pass into the air on another.

I think a big chunk of the blame for the meltdown goes to the coaches, Anae and Doman, who should have recognized something was wrong with Max and switched to emphasizing the run game. We had good success running the ball on them.

George H Zinn | 10:34 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

I really hope you are kidding about Max Hall being considered for the Heismann. His performance against Utah was not Heismann-worthy, and he cannot hold his own against the defense. Hall is good, but not great, on a national scale.

TV is | 10:36 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

a waste of time

Re re: old coach | 10:40 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

While it was 27-24 through 3 quarters of play, BYU most certainly was not driving for another score at the end of the third quarter. Hall had fumbled late in the third quarter IN BYU TERRITORY. It was just the beginning of a BYU possession. I'm not sure I'd call that "driving for another score."

Utah scored on the possession they got after the Hall fumble to make it 34-24. Then, Hall was intercepted by Kruger deep in BYU territory on the next possession. Utah scored there to make it 41-24.

I don't think you can say BYU was driving for another score when the score was 27-24 through 3 quarters of play.

Scotty | 10:41 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

If Brian Johnson throws five INTs, and Max Hall none, BYU wins the game.

Re re: Old coach | 10:42 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Did you really say Utah's defense wasn't effective in the first quarter? Go look at the stats. BYU had 1 first down in the entire quarter. They were 3 and out the first possession but got a FG due to Collie's kickoff return of 70 yards. They punted on their second possession after one first down.

I'd say Utah's defense did a very effective job on BYU in the first quarter. Unless you consider 1 first down and 23 total yards of offense a good offensive quarter.

Even Older Old Coach | 10:46 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Old coach is right... re:Old coach is wrong. Max will be back and will do just fine. BYU needs to figure it out that Defense wins championships. Witt has known that for a long time.

RE: Scotty | 10:57 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Scotty, that statement is ridiculous. Of course the game would be different if Utah had 6 turnovers and BYU had none.

That is like saying that BYU would have won, if only they had scored more points than Utah. Great job.

ChrisKazoo | 11:17 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Hall doesn't look anyone off, every defender for Utah who had a pick said the same things, they could see where he was going way before he threw it. The other thing that lost this game was stupid penalties and poor secondary play - did you see Tafuna just go over early in the game and nail that Utah defender (he didn't even look back for the ball, if he had he would have had a pick, instead 15 more yards, and what about Rich's 15 yarder, a repeat of a penalty he had earlier in the year, and then of course Hall's 15 yearder that totally changed the momentum before the half. Also whomever the DB was that gave up that 40 yard touchdown bomb to that utah receiver going into halftime should be shot, he was out of position and bad technique, I put most of this loss on the coaching staff and particularly Mendenhall for not instilling discipline, poise and intelligence in his players, and letting anae keep forcing the pass when it wasn't necessary, unbelievable, and they never seem to learn, same mistakes all year.

bigutefan | 11:17 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

I love how Cougar fans think that if Anae would have just run the ball more they would have won. Utah played pass defense the entire game, if the Utes would have played primarily run defense which is their strength, Unga would have had under 50 yards like he did in the previous Utah-BYU game. You got beat - get over yourselves. I haven't heard of any greatness joining your team to improve that pathetic defense, unless you pull out a miracle, your defense will be poor again in 2009. Hall should have big numbers when you have a strength of schedule that ranks in the 100's, he is alright, but not a Heisman candidate. By the way......."Hall is still throwing interceptions...." GO UTES!

re: TV is | 11:21 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

so is surfing and blogging on the internet. Guess you need to get a life too.

akk | 11:27 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

As a Ute fan I recognize Max Hall is a good quarterback... he is not the only reason Utah won. BYU was out-coached and out recruited. You need speed to win against good teams... you need a coach who spends more time coming up with game plans than thinking of catch phrases and slogans... you need to stop focusing on how superior you are and focusing on how to make yourselves better.

Re: re: Old Coach 10:26 am | 11:42 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

This is funny. Ok, pull the injury card but I am going to ask as couple of questions...

1. How is it that you can diagnose Max's concussion from watching TV??

2. At what point during the game did Max sustain his mild head trauma??

I have watched the game twice and here's my opinion...

There were a number of personal fouls committed by BYU (including Max, a quarterback, are you kidding me??) which seems to be a growing trend for BYU since the Utah State game. In addition to the personal fouls during the game, we have the incident with the Haka Dance, and Kyle Luekenga's (#54) actions before and after the game.

If Mendenhall doesn't instill focus, discipline, and accountability at the individual and team levels, there will be a meltdown. The question isn't "if" the question is "when" and how bad.

Utah played with intelligence, poise, and athleticism. The defense had Hall confused on numerous occasions as evidenced by five interceptions, several "should have been" interceptions, and numerous batted balls. Hall was not confused when he was on the bench.

Mr. BYU | 11:55 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008

For those of you too ignorant to know. BYU has had some VERY GOOD defensive teams in the past. At the beginning of the season we thought they were going to be good except for the secondary but they weren't. Big Deal! With a good number returning they can still be better next year--we'll have to wait and see.

And for the people who think that speed is the only way to win games: What happened last year when BYU went and kicked TCU's fannies on their home field? There are many other instances. Speed is nice and important but NOT crucial if the players know how to play good solid sound football.

m. hall | 12:28 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

the most favorite byu player in history for utah.

shoulda stayed at ariz state where he had a chance for a decent bowl.

nothing wrong with the mullet bowl in north dakota....

usu | 12:28 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

usu would school byu in football in a bowl game.

Laugh out loud | 12:43 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

I can't wait for the article to come out after the BCS game where Utah gets throttled by an SEC or Big 12 or USC team. BYU performed well for a good team with a poor schedule. Utah performed well for a better team and a harder schedule. But every single reason given for a win or loss can be used against the same team for every win or loss when arguing. Utah was 5-0 on the last minutes of the games this year and that helped them become undefeated. They were only dominant against very inferior teams and teams which made excessive mistakes. Otherwise they were just good enough for the win. It wasn't like watching Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, USC or Florida in which they were crushing teams right and left for the most part. I'd love to see Utah play an Alabama, Ohio State, USC, Texas, Texas Tech. I would hope they would play as well as Boise State did but my objectivity tells me it would probably be a 3 touchdown win for the above teams. Time will tell.

Defense wins championships | 1:04 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

To the poster who said that Bronco needed to figure that out and Whittingham already know that, explain why BYU won the championship two years in a row and was one quarter of bad quarterbacking away from doing it again. Bronco knows that defense wins titles and if you read his comments from this season when BYU was 6-0 he stated pretty clearly that his defense was overrated. He knew they lacked in speed. I think the fact that he held teams to around 20 ppg with this crew and hid the problem until the TCU game is a testament to his coaching abilities.

Re: Laugh out loud | 1:08 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Regarding the Utes...."They were only dominant against very inferior teams and teams which made excessive mistakes."

In the case of BYU, it was both.

Yeah, I'm still laughing.

Why are BYU fans so concerned about how well Utah does in the BSC game. The bigger issue is how well will BYU do against a lower ranked team?? A loss there would really make us look bad.

Stay in the back seat and let Utah deal with the BCS game...BYU fans have enough to worry about with any ranked team.

A fan | 1:45 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

I thought this was a blog about sports broadcasting, not the 356th rehashing of Utah-BYU.

Re: Defense wins championships | 1:54 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

"I think the fact that he (Bronco) held teams to around 20 ppg with this crew and hid the problem until the TCU game is a testament to his coaching abilities."

Yeah, and Mendenhall's ability to schedule really bad out of conference teams is down right astonishing!

byu? | 2:05 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

while byu fans bragg about winning mtn west titles...

Utah is on their way to a 2ND BCS BOWL GAME, 0 for BYU.

Yuck | 3:01 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Heirbstreet and the Ute's remind me of each other! Both are examples of the Peter Principle.

Out With Max | 4:08 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Max Hall needs to leave BYU immediately due to his many transgressions on the football field against Utah. He's clearly no longer worthy to wear blue in ANY sort of "Quest for Perfection."

His 11 GOOD games were good, but not good enough. As the BYU quarterback, Max must ALWAYS set the example of perfection and NEVER commit errors. It's so embarrassing to the BYU faithful, who are always so forgiving, merciful, patient, and loyal. As a token of their graciousness, most of them will NOT throw the first stone as Max leaves!

What will Max do? I understand Arizona State, whose own quarterback has guided them to a 4-6 season (translation for Y-ners--that means--GASP!--ONLY 4 wins!), would welcome him back in a heartbeat.

Besides, as any logical, realistic, and knowledgeable "BYU fan" would conclude, anything Max Hall can do, Brendan Gaskins can do better. So since Max has so thoroughly demonstrated his unworthiness, BYU must rely on Brendan on the Quest. Brendan will guide the Cougars to 12-0 all-blowout wins (and a 140-0 obliteration of Utah) in 2009, the BCS championship game, universal praise and acclaim, and a newly minted Nobel Prize in Sports.

Austin | 4:31 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Using the logic of Austin Collie last season, Max Hall must not be doing the right thing on & off the field.

old geezer | 6:41 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Old Coach: I'm a Ute fan but I can not sit back and let you claim "The Pro playing Manning boys of NY and Indiana would have had a rough time against Utah". You lost any credibility you may have had when you say something like that. The Utes have a great COLLEGE team. Get that? COLLEGE! I love the Utes but they would be shredded like funeral potatoes if they played against the "Manning boys".

That said, Go UTAH in the BCS.

how Max gets his 34 TD | 6:49 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

by playing against "cup cakes" --UCLA (7 TD), UW (3 TD), NIA (2 TD)

What a joke for ESPN to pick BYU to upset Utah.

Have you noticed that against great teams (Utah, TCU), Max threw 0 TD (zip, nilda) and 7 INTs?
Obviously, he can't play against good defense.

Hey, Pierce! | 7:10 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Maybe you should call up Kirk Herbstreit to meet you by the flagpole tomorrow! Oh, wait, he's too busy making a lot more money than you by not being a homer and having a national perspective. I don't think he's great, but you really need to move on.

Hey, How Max... | 7:19 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

... um--since when was 10-2 Northern Iowa a "cupcake"? UNI--people who KNOW ANYTHING about the Panthers don't call them "NIA"--is Division I-AA, fine, but they're one of the best. They could have beaten the Cougs, realistically, had the momentum not shifted.

And what's with the anti-Pac-10 bravado? Let's not pretend UCLA hasn't had a pitifully substandard year, but calling the Bruins a "cupcake" is really, REALLY stretching things. The Huskies were a much different team with Jake Locker--they would have won at least 4 games this year had they had him under center--maybe even been in bowl contention.

Word of advice to ya: I wouldn't diss the Pac-10 like that, especially not when you're going to Oregon next year.

Meanwhile, the Utes' win over 3-9 Michigan looks smaller and smaller all the time, doesn't it? Way to whup up on the 2-9 Utah State Aggies! And don't come back with the "we-beat-them-by-more" crapola--BYU beat a quality Air Force squad MUCH more convincingly than the Utes did, if you want to take that route.

"How Max," please do some elementary research on college football before your next post!

Re: how Max gets his 34 TD | 7:25 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Ooooooh, an excellent point. No doubt the reason Max is nowhere to be seen in the Heisman running.

re: how max... | 8:15 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

I have to assume then that you are saying that utah and tcu must have had some pretty inferior defenses last year then as BYU beat them both the last 2 years.

Mark in Peoria | 8:28 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Th comments regarding ESPn's vested interest in the BCS is a valid one. After all, it's all about money.

I'll be sad to see the BCS games leave network television. I think they have better professionals calling the games, though there would be some carryover with some games since ABC and ESPN are owned by the same company.

Huh. Perhaps we should be worried about Disney calling the shots in college football.

Re: hey, how max... | 9:04 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

You're correct Northern Iowa (I like NIA better) could have beaten BYU --my bad, I did not realize that BYU could have been 9-3 instead. But NIA is still ranked as #109 (Sagarin), and if that is not cupcake, then what is it? Sponge cake?
Can't call them cupcakes, then what I can I call them:
UCLA #91 (Sarah Lee pound cake?)
Washington #147 (strawberry shortcake?)

(perhaps you should do some research to find that Michigan (as bad as they are) is still ranked as #86 ahead of UCLA, the best OOC team that BYU played this year)

(I don't trash the whole PAC 10. Obviously, OSU, USC, Oregon and Cal are still good this year)

The main point is though: 34 TDs Maxie threw this year, none were in TCU and Utah games (and 7 of 13 ints were caused by TCU and Utah). Max got frustrated playing good teams. Maxie looked great while playing against "cakes" --whether it is cupcake, sponge cake, pound cake or strawberry shortcake.

Re: how max | 8:15pm | 9:12 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

In 2007: against Utah: Max had 0 TD, 1 int, and 1 TD, 1 int against TCU while he had total of 26 TD, 12 ints
Consistently, Max does not play well against the top 2 teams in conference (TCU and Utah).

Max @ 9:04 | 10:08 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Hm. Looking at the Sagarin ratings is better than going off a gut feeling, so let's give you some credit there--but then again, I'm not all that sure Sagarin's SOS ratings are much better than gut feelings transformed into statistics.

Even so, let's play along. Sagarin rates 245 teams. That means UNI--that's their name!--is still in the upper half. Even Washington is barely in the lower half--I repeat, they wouldn't have been there with Locker healthy, as he was when BYU played them.

So since you still insist UCLA's a "cupcake," or at least some sort of baked confection, you've started "cupcakes" from at least 90 on down. That makes nearly 2/3 of all I-A/I-AA college football teams so-called "cupcakes"! Where you smell bakery, I smell exaggeration.

Remember, too, one of those "cupcakes," Wyoming (126), beat Tennessee (73) at home. Statistics aren't gospel truth.

Look at another part of the Sagarin ratings--the best part. Where are Utah, TCU and BYU? Nos. 8, 9, and still-not-shabby 22. (Unless you actually start the cupcakes at 20?) Playing each other and other tough teams in the MWC--which had a GOOD year for once!--helped them.

Still not convinced. Sorry.

RE: Anonymous 9:12 poster | 10:31 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

Max made mistakes in those 2007 Utah and TCU games, yes. Strangely enough, most college QBs get a tad flustered by quality defenses--though the best find a way to win and/or learn their lessons so they're not so rattled next time. I'm willing to see how Max does next year, personally. And even more strangely, the Cougars won both of those games in 2007. So what's your beef?

This is truly bizarre. We're going to hold Max's lone interception against TCU in 2007 as evidence against his ability as a quarterback THIS year? And all this because he had ONE CRASH-AND-BURN against Utah--the best team he's played all year, bar none?

This carping, sniping and backbiting has GOT to be doing wonders for BYU's recruiting. It'd be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

Texas Ute | 10:58 p.m. Nov. 28, 2008

For all you experts out their, games are won sideline to sidline. Not end zone to end zone.

Ride your high horse..quickly | 12:46 a.m. Nov. 29, 2008

I would really like to see Utah do well in the big game, but it won't happen. There is nothing special about this team. The offense sputters most of the time and squeeks out wins from any competition. Utah got beat by TCU, send flowers to their kicker. They got beat by BYU, again, send flowers to Max Hall. Their luck will come to an abrupt reality in their bowl game, which again, is a sad thing. I am so sick of hearing about Georgia and Hawaii. The big schools are going to even the series 2-2, and it is going to be ugly.

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