Deseret News | Reader comments: 3 FLDS members surrender in Texas

Reader comments
3 FLDS members surrender in Texas

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Fran | 1:36 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

I am an out-of towner, so I feel free to comment on this situation. Like Dr. Phil says, get real! No man in their right mind would think it is appropriate to have this kind of relationship with an underage girl. I feel bad for the girls who obviously have been subjected to mind control since their childhood, and these men have been granted way too much power and authority to influence lives of the unassuming. I pray for the young women who have the courage to say "enough" and get out of Dodge.

About Time | 1:49 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Some people thought they forgot these two.

Saved the best for last.

Jim | 2:19 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

I think you've got it all wrong, Fran. You're one of those people who watch the media and think that they are a truthful organization. I hope that more girls get married in that society than go out in our present day society and get pregnant at 14, 15, 16 and then go get an abortion because they can't afford the baby because their boyfriend won't pay child support. I just think it's amazing how everyone is soooo wanting to help the underaged girls when they are the ones that get scoffed at when in public places! By the way, there has never been one abortion, murder, robbery, domestic violence, welfare fraud, homosexuality, STD's, identity theft, child abuse(unless there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, which I seriously doubt:), maufia groups, pent houses ever seen at the ranch!! Get a life Fran.

Comments continue below

Yo, Jim | 2:32 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

You are right about the world not being a pretty place to be. There is plenty of sin to go around. But that does not excuse the culture of the FLDSers. They, too, would be better off to get out of the plural wife and teenage bride business.

Anon132 | 2:35 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Jim, Jim, Jim,
WAKE UP!

To Jim | 2:41 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Are you just trying to justify your own current lifestyle? Sounds like it!

mel | 2:44 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

You're wrong Jim! There have been proven cases of welfare fraud, bigamy, domestic violence, SEVERE child abuse, sexual abuse, and on and on. There was this one eye witness account, confirmed by others, of the husbands taking babies about one year of age and putting them face up under a tap of running water. If the baby cried he hit it and put it back under water. This often went on for well over an hour till the child passed out from exhaustion. This was done to male babies to instill in them a fear of their patriarch so they would never stand up their abusive fathers. If the mother did anything to interfere with this practice she and her children would get punished, usually through physical abuse or food depravation. I could go on and on with many accounts like these and only a sick pedophile pervert would defend a group who does this to children.

Fran is right | 2:58 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

These young girls do not know any better. They have been taught one "truth" all their lives and do not know there is another way. This is abuse. And Jim, never say "never". I would bet the house that there has been at least 1 domestic abuse, welfare fraud, and STD at the ranch. Just because it's not been reported doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

x | 3:54 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

so what will happen to these men? Will they actually go to jail and sit there, or will they end up on the sexual offender list in Texas. It doesn't matter where you hide in this world, there is always be underaged sex or marriages, no matter how hard any state trys to stop it. Like one mentioned in a post, there are girls all over the US that are pregnant at as young as 12 or maybe even younger. I am not making excuses for these men's actions and they should be held accountable for their actions. But, some where along the line, the younger FLDS men need to be educated about what could happen if there is under age marriages. Yah, sure some think that would be dumb, but charging the flds men thousands of dollars to bail them out of jail, won't put an end to their business. Seems funny that after 110 yars of practicing polygamy and under age marriages, the state of Texas finally cares after a prank call. If the flds wanted to hide under aged marriages, then why keep documentation of weddings and other information? did they want to get caught? Beats me

Jim ole boy | 4:10 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Sounds like you drank the cool aid!

MoJules | 4:28 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

I do not know if the group has been making young girls marry for a long time, or if this is new to Rulen. But if it is a long time practice, then it is obvious that even the men have been brainwashed, since childhood. All cultures "brainwash" their children to a degree, but some are harmful and dangerous, some are uplifting and a safe path.

I can think of two groups that have a lot of child mothers, young girls having children. The one group is the FLDS, doing it in the name of religion and in their minds eye, it is legal and spiritual. The other group is particularly one race where by all appearances, they find it of great worth to get pregnant in their young teens and to have three before they are 18. Of course there is multiple fathers and absent father, with the FLDS, those kids don't know their fathers either.

It is a shame that the law doesn't come down on all teen girls who are having babies, I guess they just want to go after the ones in the name of religion, not ethnic traditions.

Penny | 4:56 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

@mel

If there is this really awful severe child abuse going on, then why have they returned all the children? They had a spy on the ranch for like a year and they still couldn't find enough abuse to get them out. I believed that the FLDS was on welfare and through this fiasco I found out they weren't. Uneducated people say things about MY religion (LDS) that are not true. This whole thing has been a fiasco. Geez.

Oklahoma Mormon | 5:36 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Maybe some truth will come out and expose the government do-gooders for what they are. Anything for a dollar. They don't really care about these folks. They are embarresed about the fiasco of a raid, and now they just want to get even. Let these folks alone!!

Good grief Mel | 5:43 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

If someone abuses a child, and is proven guilty, they must pay the penalty....period! But don't be so damn foolish as to believe every "eye witness" account as truth. Remember the incident in which a falsehood was broadcasted around about you? A lot of people believed it and a lot of damage was done, and even though you knew it was a lie, the instigator believed otherwise. Did that make it true?

Secondly, even if this type of abusive behavior happened in one family, does not prove it is a pervasive pattern of abuse used to indoctrinate a religious fear of the patriarch in every household, as you would have us believe.

If you're that gullible, I can put you in contact with some Nigerian scam artists that would love to communicate with you.

Caley | 5:45 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

I'm so happy to see these old dogs turn themselves in. It was just a matter of time until the atthorities caught up to them. Anyway, they are too old to run any longer..lol! Nonetheless polygamy is so very sick and VILE!

I'm truly sorry for the young girls who have been raped and violated by these old fools. God will take care of them in the end.

Anonymous | 6:07 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

those that love to see people surfer and cover up there wrong doing and accuse others meaning the (State of Texas) are guilty of the thing they accusing others of doing they will be despised by those that flattered them

jim jones | 6:14 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

now i say 1891 is a long , long , long time to develop a system until it becomes more like a whale then an elephant in the room...but there are a heck of alot of other groups in this state so I's be a keeping my eyes wide open from now on!

Finally! | 7:34 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

These guys were indicted weeks ago. It must take a long time to say goodbye to all those wives and kids.

Re: Jim | 7:34 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Looks like you are the only one here who has a clue. The real cool aid drink is the media. The media can't report anything in an unbiased fashion. They have to sensationalize and exaggerate everything to draw more viewers so they can make more money off their ads.

How the media covered this election is a perfect example. Completely one sided. If Americans were smart, they would stop buying newspapers, watching the news, and turn off the radio during the news flashes. Frankly, I don't spend any money on news. Blogs is the place to go if you want to get all sides of the story. Most people say "both" sides of the story, but most stories have more than two sides.

Re: mel | 7:47 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

First, Most educated people capitalize their name.

Second, polygamist communities have far less crime than the rest of America. You sound like you are getting your information from the Gossip, I mean the Jessop girls.

Third, just because someone defends a group doesn't mean they are part of or behave anything like that group.

Bigamy shouldn't even be a crime. When a society like Texas allows bisexual orgies to happen, and then they go after these people on bigamy charges. . . . well, that's just religious persecution.

Every society has SEVERE child abuse. If you find one or two cases, it is sad, but that doesn't mean you go in and hold guns to the heads of everyone in that society, and take the all the children without looking into the situation.

Even if the officials do find some abuse, the abuses would have to be significantly larger than those in normal society for them to even be an issue. How many underage age brides have they found? Last I checked, Texas had one suspected underage marriage out of 400 children. Looks like this boils down to a few perverted religious leaders, just like in the Catholic church.

T | 8:13 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

12 years old! What kind of man and father would consider marrying their 12 year old of to a middle aged man? I guess if she is his property to do with as he pleases he doesn't see any harm in it. Polygamy turns women and children in property. Everything about the way these women and children are "trained" to live is abusive. It good to see one of these men in jail where they belong. I wonder where all the money came from to bail out the others? Money they had while their wives and children worked all day in the fields and homes to feed and clothe themselves. Stop the abuse of women and children. Stop the Child labor and stop the welfare fraud.

YO Mama | 10:23 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

You go T. You hit the nail write on the head!

Cats | 5:39 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008

It's about time! Merrill Jessop should have been in jail a long time ago. These guys think they are a law unto themselves. And yes, the "Jessop girls" have had the courage to let the world know what goes on in this sick environment.

We had some FLDS in our community this summer for a while. It was so pathetic to see the women. They went around in a constant state of depression. They were afraid to hardly talk to anyone outside the group. One made friends with a friend of mine and was quickly sent back to Hilldale. One family came into my business. The wife looked about twenty and had four small children. The husband was about forty. She looked so sad.

There are no happy women in polygamy. They just do the best they can to get by each day. They are considered property by the men and have no rights. The girls are forced into marriages before they have the chance to even know anything else. If they try to escape they are tracked down.

It's time this sort of abuse is stopped. Merrill Jessop and the others need to be prosecuted and imprisoned.

B | 5:39 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Sounds like hardly one of you know a thing that you're talking about. Most of these comments are silly and have nothing to back them up but the media! ha ha!

griz | 6:37 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008

when this all comes crashing douwn around your own heads dont come crying to the flds for a handout you just may not get it. besides that I dont think any of you realy know what you are talking about.

It's time | 7:18 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008

to cut off the head of the snake and end the child abusing practices promoted by Warren Jeffs and other FLDS leaders. They've crossed way over the line from simply living a chosen lifestyle to sexually abusing young girls under the guise of "religious beliefs" preached by a man who has confessed to being a false prophet.

If the families of these children won't protect them, then society and the law must.

Cats | 8:05 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Who on earth would EVER go to the FLDS for a handout? These FLDS get on here and try to pretend to be bystanders who are just trying to defend their rights. It's pathetic.

These people have been following false prophets for generations that have lead them down to degradation. I hope they will finally wake up and see the truth.

Those who commit crimes against women and children should all be brough to justice.

re: its time | 8:51 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008

I'm just wondering how society will protect the children.

I'm just looking at society's and the "law's" track record.

so | 9:03 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Funny how the government officials try to make them selfs look sooo good. well they hit Little Texas well what about the home state, the state were it all started, the state that 50% of its people live next to a bigamist and don't even know it, or are related to one. (UTAH).......

Tennessee John | 9:21 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008

I went to Granite High School with Wendell Nielsen, and we all knew him as a fun-loving, happy-go-lucky guy. He lived on 5th East in Salt Lake City, and none of us, I believe, would have ever believed that Wendell was destined for such fame (or for his 15 minutes of fame). Don't be too swift to condemn. Remember: This is America (or what is left of it after 8 years of George W. Bush's administration) and a person should be considered innocent before proven guilty. Nuf said.

freethinker | 9:27 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Just because you don't know what goes on behind closed doors doesn't make it evil. Read the basic teachings of the Mormon faith to see why poygamy exists. It isn't a law of man it is of heaven. The Mormons today are following their leaders blindly and instead of upholding the basic teachings of their founding fathers they prefer to accept the easy life that contains no controversy.

Things went terribly wrong | 9:52 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008

We had a "lost boy" in our home for several years. The FLDS started out as a peace loving group who really were trying to establish their own Zion. With Rulon Jeffs, and especially Warren Jeffs, things really went off the track. Demographics also caught up with the group, because if you want to have plural marriages in a community this small, two things have to happen: (1) men soon run out of women their own age so marriage has to be with younger and younger women; and (2) more and more young men have nobody to marry, so you have to run all but the most compliant boys out of town. There positively is control and compulsion of many women, including this boy's mother. I believe it is widespread and that the women don't even recognize it, never having known anything different. Whatever else you can say, I believe that in these times there is NO POSSIBLE JUSTIFICATION for performing or accepting a marriage of an old man and a pre-pubescent 12 year old girl. This is the terrible place where this religion has ended up: Merril Jessop and Warren Jeffs belong in the slammer.

wow | 10:04 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008

since when has the Government been right!!

what makes this time so special....

zxcvbnm | 10:29 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008

It is so nice to see all the experts on FLDS religious ceremonies get their jollies defineing practices that they don't understand.

The State of Texas has gone out of its way to redefine bigamy, marraige, and other religious practices in order to suit an agenda propogated by ex-flds with a grudge.

Every time the flds bring up religious freedom as a legal challenge the States involved back off. Case in point the UEP trust fiasco. Don't even mention polygamy or church funds.......oh no.

The bigamy and marraige definitions that were skewed in order to target FLDS will with luck get their day in Federal courts and then perhaps Scalia will ultimately get his wish.

The literal constitutional protection of the right to Practice Ones Religion will be upheld..

Merril is charged with performing a strictly religious ceremony, no more and no less.

JND | 10:31 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Greetings from Texas!

This thread is quite an improvement over those last spring. We've got way fewer comments trying to justify FLDS practices.

re zxcvbnm | 10:54 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008

so - how's the ranch these days? kinda quiet?

running out of child brides?

the rest of the world appreciates Texas getting these abusers off the streets. Hoipefully the ranch will be sold to pay the debts of the FLDS (and they have many debts, both monetary and moral.)

Anonymous | 11:57 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008

I agree this is child abuse.

It was child abuse when Joseph Smith married two 14 year old girls.

No more slavery | 12:31 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

I'm so over joyed that these polygamist MEN are finely being seen and sought out for who they truly are. This is a wonderful day for Mormonism--- Praise the Lord! May god help the women and children of this horrible cult. They do not realize how brainwashed they have been since birth. It's now time for a change.

Times change | 12:33 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

"It was child abuse when Joseph Smith married two 14 year old girls."

Not even close. Different time. Different circumstances. Different laws.

The YFZ ranch child abusers are being brought to justice are charges based on the laws of today. These men knowingly violated those laws and are now facing the consequences of their abuse.

Andy | 1:34 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

What about Barbara Jessop? She went along with Merril marrying off their daughter to Warren Jeffs. Is she being charged too? If not, why not?

Lydia | 1:39 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

For those of you who sympathize with polygamist who are probably indeed polygamist men. You folks need to think about getting out of the slavery business and stop the violation of children and women for your own selfish worldly pleasures. Perhaps even think about getting a real life. Although none of you guys would ever make any woman a good husband. NO woman in her right mind would ever want a single one of you old-dogs. Bah-hum-BUG!

re: zxcvbnm | 1:40 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

the FLDS left Utah/Arizona because of their child-abusing practices and sought out a place where they thought they could get away with it.

Texas wasn't fooled and updated their laws to make it illegal for the FLDS leaders to carry on their child abuse.

This isn't an issue of the law being used to restrict someone's religious practices, it's an issue of Warren Jeffs and his followers using religion as cover to abuse children.

There's absolutely no need to force prepubescent girls into illegal marriages in order to live a polygamous lifestyle.

re: Andy | 1:57 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Where's your proof that Barbara Jessop willingly went along with Merrill marrying off their daughter to Warren Jeffs?

It's easy to make accusations when you don't have to stand before a judge and jury under oath in a court of law.

If you have such proof, I'm sure Texas authorities would be interested in hearing/seeing it.

Otherwise, stop posting lies.

zxcvbnm | 2:09 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

16 is not prepubesent.....17 is not prepubesent....... and Texans were quite happy with 14 as a marraige before Hildebrand targeted YFZ......heck, east texas Baptists defeated the first draft and voted down the original bill forceing Hildebrand to bury the new law in a CPS funding bill.
This was not the will of the people of Texas petitioning their legislators to get with the times. It was a sordid attempt to target the FLDS.....for their religious practices.
Without the new laws there would be one guy in prison for impregnating a 12 year old......but darn.....another state beat Texas to it.

Andy | 2:25 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

The proof that Barbara went along with it willingly is the fact that she failed to protect her daughter, which prompted her removal from the home and into foster care.

Or is that a lie too?

Barnyard animals | 2:38 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Yeah Andy, where's your proof? She (Jessop Woman) was probably forced into do and say whatever those old perverts wanted her to say because she had no choice in the matter. Those FLDS woman are counseled well how to act around outsiders, and how to protect their wimpy men, or lose their kids. Most of those fathers are just breeders and do not know one kid from another, or which children are truly theirs. Disgustingly sick if you ask me.

re: zxcvbnm | 2:44 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Stop burying your head in the sand and ignoring the fact that forcing child bride marriages was simply Warren Jeffs cunning way to legitimize his sexual abuse of young girls. The FLDS picked Texas as a safe haven to continue their underage marriages. Texas changed their law. The FLDS knew they didn't have any legal grounds for reversing the change, so the FLDS chose to ignore the law.

If the FLDS were honest with themselves, and really cared about their children, they would understand that forcing anybody into an arranged marriage is evil, but it's especially insidious when it's a young girl who's not even old enough to drive a car, let alone, make one of the most important decisions of her life.

T | 2:51 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

So, if a Catholic priest performs a "religious ceremony" before he molests a little boy does that make it o.k.? What about other child molesters - they just call it a "marriage" and its o.k. to have sex with 12 year old girls?

I'm glad some people in our society have had the guts to stand up and say "this is wrong" and then done something to help end it.

See no evil | 2:59 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

There's a vast difference between a couple of teenagers fooling around and the girl getting pregnant and their parents giving their consent for the teenagers to get married,

and

A "spiritual leader" brainwashing a young girl and her parents into accepting the young girl being forced into an arranged marriage to a 50-year-old man whom the girl had no say in choosing.

The fact that the FLDS see no difference in the two situations is an indictment of the absolute control by the men and the brainwashing of the women and children that occurs in their society.

Bev | 3:37 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

RE: SEE NO EVIL,

Oh, how very true on what you have written. You are absolutely correct.

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