Deseret News | LDS have big image problem

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LDS have big image problem

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Ignorance | 11:58 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008

The people that killed Christ also talked as many of the people do here on this blog. California #3,#4, and anonymous for example. Some of you people are so ignorant that you would crucify the savior again because you know very little of him or of his teachings. The sooner he returns the better.

So, realitycheck... | 12:08 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

... what DO you believe in? Anything? Or do you believe in belittling other people's beliefs? If you really do live to tear down other people, that's a really sad existence, and I honestly feel sorry for you.

Not sure what the Temperance Movement--which had very little if anything to do with the LDS church, BTW--has to do with sex or the Ten Commandments, but hey, you're the one carrying the banner on that. Just know that I for one have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry.

By the way, you asked earlier how we knew the prophets speak to God. Surprised nobody answered. We pray to God to know if that's true. God gives us the answer. So President Monson doesn't have to convince me of anything. I already know from God that he's a prophet--NOT a perfect man and NOT a deity, but a prophet.

That means at least two things: 1) You can know for yourself from God whether it's true that President Monson is a prophet, and 2) Even if you don't believe it, which you're free to do, it doesn't mean it isn't true anyway.

Consider it--the ULTIMATE "reality check."

realitycheck | 12:13 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

re Ignorance 11:58am

"the sooner he returns, the better".

don't you think He's going to go to the other 10,000 planets that DIDN'T murder him, before he bothers to come back here? I'm sure his dad (God) feels the same way....

Comments continue below

Lavern | 12:27 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

I'm all about myself and I have a GREAT IMAGE!

realitycheck | 12:32 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

re - "So, realitycheck..." 12:08pm

what do I believe? I believe that God is in your heart and your soul, and leads you through your conscience, and that organized religion lost that many years ago.

In fact, all organized religion accomplishes is to take people's money to provide for leaders that will say anything the populace wants to hear.

So - pray tell - you say that you already know "from God that President Monson is a prophet". I don't know who he is, but I'll assume he's your leader and he told you he was a prophet. And you believe him.

But you state that God told you... So the bigger question is:

how did God tell you President Monson was a prophet? How does God tell you anything? I know how He talks to me, through my conscience. Did your conscience tell you someone is a prophet? Because I'm sorry, but my conscience simply guides me down the right path - it doesn't tell me anything about prophets.

Please explain. I'm seriously curious. I know Jeffs inherited his "prophetness" but you're not fundementalist, so how were you informed of this man's ability to discuss issues with God?

Hal | 12:51 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

I asked God if Thomas Monson was a prophet, and She said he is NOT a prophet. He was born and raised in the Church and had no choice about it. He stayed in the Church because his family expected him to. He was related to influential people in the Church, so he got called to influential positions until he was finally called (by a relative) into the top leadership of the Church when he was just a young age. All the more senior leaders died off, leaving him the most senior, so that makes everyone think he is a "prophet", but he is really just the President of a very large corporation. Look up the legal documents. You will see that the LDS Church is really legally organized under "The Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". It is just a big business. Monson gets a generous "stipend", just as do all the other Apostles, and just like all business executives get. I wouldn't be surprised if they also got bonuses for increased tithing revenue and membership improvements!

RE: realitycheck@12:32 | 1:17 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

For a SERIOUS answer to your question (thanks, Hal, I think), :) think of it in terms of conscience if you want. But God responds in our hearts and minds. He can assure us of the truth in a convincing spiritual way through the conscience, if you will.

Not enough room to go into depth--and Hal and others will probably not agree--but the "still small voice" described by Elijah in the Old Testament is real and echoed in LDS scriptures in Moroni 10:3-5, D&C 9:8-9, and others. So in short, you can get the answer from God through more or less the means you describe in response to honest and sincere prayer.

If you think it sounds like nonsense--well, I can understand that, too. If I weren't assured that the answers were coming from God, it'd all be pretty absurd. It's nothing you can prove with your head--you've got to trust with your heart.

Yet in today's world, it's tough to trust (a number have stopped trusting), and yes, many organized religions HAVE let us down. No argument there. But I've listened to President Monson and the apostles, and prayed about it, and it's true. That's how I know.

re Hal | 1:22 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

so Hal - although I agree with your conclusions...

how did God tell you this?

I still want to know how you all actually speak to God....

peterandrew | 1:25 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Very few people outside their church really care what Mormons believe. I've read that there are around 16 million members of their church.

But the 600,000,000 gay people around the world have to face a wall of hate every day of their lives, and by throwing their support behind Proposition 8, the Mormon Church has shored up that wall--and that is incontestable.

realitycheck | 1:36 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

may I ask...

if a mormon doesn't pay tithing, are they excommunicated (ie - kicked out)? or is it just a request?

because it's one thing to say you should put something in occasionally if you can afford to, and it's an entirely different thing to say you have to put in some amount or you can't belong to the church.

first one is a religion. Second one is a pyramid scheme, or worse when it preys on people's fears....

Svoboda | 1:38 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

To Hal:
You sure you got your answer from God?

Hey Hal - | 1:57 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Where on earth do you get your information? Thomas Monson became prophet because "he had no choice about it"?? What?? "It is just a big business". What?? Do you run a big business? Big business exists to enhance shareholder value (by definition). Who are the shareholders here? As a laymember do I get any compensation for being a member? Does my bishop, stake president, elders quorom president receive any financial compensation at all? Are you aware of the fact that the Prophet and Apostles have committed all they have, their time, talents and all they possess to the building of God's kingdom here on earth. The only business we are involved in is the Lord's business. There is no profit motive here at all. All monies spent are to the benefit of the membership of the church and people in need around the world. Nobody receives any bonuses for tithing revenue or membership improvement. This church is no business but it is run efficiently. As Gordon B. Hinkley was fond so saying about the widows mite. The tithing money is sacred and every dollar spent is spent wisely.

dkf | 1:59 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Every church and it's members have a testimony of their OWN religion. Everyone knows God in one way or another. Who's way is best-- I do not know? There is a lot of confusion in all religions. Although I will never quit praying, because I do believe in God. However, I do not believe in man.

RE: realitycheck | 2:10 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Of course you can be a member of the Church and not pay tithing. Nobody is forced to do anything.

reality check | 2:10 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Nobody gets kicked out of the church for not paying tithing. In order to attend the temple however paying full tithing is mandatory. There are many part-tithe payers in the church. Tithing is defined as 10 per cent of your increase. Thus the more you make the more you pay. Malachi 3:8-12 explains adequately the church's position on tithing. It is encouraged for all members to put the Lord to the test and see if he will not bless you beyond your measure to receive it as you pay your tithing. The church teaches its members that all blessings are predicated upon obedience to commandments, including the Law of Tithing.

Thank you for your honest question.

re:Hal.... | 2:12 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

LOL....I know Elder Perry personally. I know for a fact that he could have stayed in the retail business and made far, far, far more money than he has serving the Church. Plus he would have a lot more free time to spend with family and friends rather than traveling all over the world frequently without his wife.

Just because you are so greedy with your money and time that you wouldn't part with it to serve others doesn't mean the rest of the world feels the same way you do...

re 1:17pm poster | 2:15 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

I would beg to differ with you.

If you have a specific answer in mind (ie - you WANT to believe it's true), and it doesn't go against your conscience of right and wrong, then the answer will ALWAYS be what you believe. Without fail. Do you think any mormon has prayed about the heads of your church and discovered they WEREN'T prophets? ah - the power of suggestion is an amazing thing.

You do understand how powerful the power of suggestion is, right? Especially when you REALLY want to believe.....

and peterandrew - MAYBE 2%-3% of people are gay, so the number is more like 120 million, not 600 million. Hate to burst your bubble, but there is not even close to half a billion gay people in the world... That's not to say they shouldn't have the same rights as everyone else, but don't overstate your population... Churches already do that enoough.

I won't spend any more missionary time here. But if you forget everything you've been told over the years and start from scratch, and really think about it, you may find nearly all your rules were made up by men rather than by God.

realitycheck | 2:22 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

re Hey hal 1:57pm

you are the shareholders. and no - you don't get monetary compensation - you pay a fee, just like a union or country club. And just like those, you have no choice in paying - you must pay to belong to the club.

yes, you get benefit - you get to belong to a club that percieves itself to be the chosen few. Shareholder value is enhanced every time you are led to believe this is true. You pay - and then you feel special. Perhaps it's worth it, I don't know.

and if you think all the money is spent wisely, perhaps you should look into the mall the church is building.

there is a huge profit motive in your church. And unless you are one of the few leaders, you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what your tithing money is spent on....

philly fan | 2:41 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

I dont know about you but I always hated the Phrase,"card carrying member" by those inside and outside the church. We are members once we are baptised. We carry temple reccomends, not cards because we agree to live by certain convenants.
That's an image problem right there in and of itself

realitycheck | 2:42 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

poster at 2:10pm

wait, let me get this straight. The church wants 10% of your income? that's a lot of money!! and if you pay less, you can't go to church?

So what do you get if you pay less, if you aren't allowed to actually attend church? a warm fuzzy? and if you pay nothing, can you still call yourself a mormon?

and tithing is an actual law or commandment in your church?

it all begs the question - how is the church handling the current financial climate? are people having to choose between paying their mortgages and feeding their children, versus paying 10% of their income to the church?

just the fact that tithing is an actual church law makes it appear to be a massive pyramid scheme.

Especially when most of the money is used to send out your troops to convert more people, to get more tiths, to send out more people, to get converts, to get more tiths, so you can send out more people, etc, etc ,etc...

and for the record, you all have WAY more commandments than God ever wanted. But your leaders just keep coming up with more. (no offense intended)

re philly fan | 2:50 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

I was baptised as roman catholic. Does that mean I am roman catholic forever? Don't I need to go to church, etc to "maintain my membership"?

Trey | 2:54 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

It would be lower if more people knew that that mormonism has believed and preached that...

God the father became flesh to have intercourse with Mary to produce Jesus

"He partook of flesh and bloodï¿½was begotten of his father, as were of our fathers." Journal of Discourses vol.8 p.115 B.Young 1860

J.Smith translated a copy of a 1st century Egyptian scroll (book of breathings) to have being written by Abraham in his own hand.

J.Smith and following first presidents upheld brass plates as being ancient, when they were a 19th century hoax (defended in The history of the church Vol. 5, pages 372-379) The first presidency approved the printing of history of the church and that it was true and correct. Kinderhook Plates

That not even 1 coin of the many cities and peoples claimed in book of mormon has ever been found, nor has the book of mormon ever been used to make any discovery in archeology.

That J.Smiths own hand written 1832 diary contradicts the 1842 official statement of the first vision.

That all metals grow like wheat only slower
Journal of Discourses vol.1 p209

among others.

To realitycheck | 2:59 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

The 1:17 poster here again. Don't think the possibility of suggestion and all sorts of alternative explanations haven't crossed my mind. I am generally a skeptic about many other areas of life. I've interrogated my own faith, believe me very well when I say that.

No--I've seen and heard too much to think that it's the power of suggestion. I'm not just making it all up. External events have corroborated the internal feelings as well, too well for mere coincidence or yet more "trying-to-make-the-evidence-fit-the-theory-type" suggestion. And if you're serious about believing God talks to you through your conscience--which I won't tell YOU you're making up!--then you'll understand how it is.

Believe what you want. That's your right and prerogative. But so will I. And nothing at all against you--there's plenty of need for critical thinking in our modern world as well. Just use that talent with wisdom!

Good exchanging ideas with you, and thanks for making me think!

Tithing | 3:26 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

To RealityCheck regarding not paying Tithing and Excommunication.

Interesting comment - but, NOT paying tithing was a reason cited by the LDS church in excommunicating Chad Hardy (Men on a Mission calendar) and used as an excuse for not granting him his diploma.

Chad needed to complete one Church History class to complete his degree. After a couple year lapse, he decided to finish his course work and took that class though Independent Study. "IS" students are NOT required to abide by the BYU Honor Code since they are not actually "on campus." So, he was NOT in violation of any rules as has been insinuated by people on this blog. READ "JPL." Yet he WAS excommunicated for not paying tithing.

re:ignorance | 3:49 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

"The people that killed Christ also talked as many of the people do here on this blog. California #3,#4, and anonymous for example. Some of you people are so ignorant that you would crucify the savior again because you know very little of him or of his teachings."

This is a perfect example of why the LDS get a bad rap. Let's do home teaching, go to the temple, pay fast offerings and treat other people like we are better than them. Thanks for providing such a striking example here.

Anonymous | 3:51 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

"disciple | 8:18 a.m. Nov. 24, 2008
As a member for 65 years I believe that if the church would spend more time teaching what our Savior, Jesus of Nazareth taught, Instead of what many of our leaders of this dispensation have taught we would have much more credibility. I have learned that to stay faithful, I need to spend most of my study time with the teachings of the Savior in the New Testament."

I'm a fellow member and am very glad to hear that you study the scriptures. However, why do you not study the Book of Mormon as much or more than the New Testament?

The New Testament, while a marvelous collection of sacred writings, is still the word of God "as far as it is translated correctly", while the Book of Mormon is "the word of God". Why not let it bless your life more fully?

Sounds to me that even at the age of 65 your testimony in the Book of Mormon is a little shaky.

I will say that I agree with you that modeling our lives on the Savior is what we need more than anything.

God bless.

re: reality check | 3:58 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

"Of course you can be a member of the Church and not pay tithing. Nobody is forced to do anything."

good luck feeling comfortable @ church when you don't pay tithing.............

realitycheck | 4:07 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

re 1:17 poster (at 2:59pm)

it's been a pleasure. good luck with your religion, we all need to have faith in something. It's just too bad your faith is so restrictive (and expensive!)

My conscience has kept me out of trouble and into helping the down-trodden, so even if it's not God, it's certainly enough to keep me in His good graces.

To have this much fun in life and still be in His good grace is about all I can hope for. Certainly not going to deny myself life's pleasures in the HOPES that I may reach some higher level, because if there is no higher level, I imagine God will be irritated that I wasted a perfectly good life.

My conscience has, and will, keep me from seeking fun/pleasure where I shouldn't, so I have A LOT less rules than you.

Not sure how confession works in the mormon church, but in roman catholic church (my upbringing) if you go to confession and say some prayers, your sins are forgiven. Well, my conscience is a lot less forgiving, so I just don't sin. Of course, my definition of sin differs greatly from yours...

:)

To: Please Answer (1 of 2) | 4:09 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

"Please Answer- Serious Question | 2:58 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008
With all the Bible references about homosexuality, does anyone else but me find it somewhat strange that there is no reference to in in the Book of Mormon? Why does not this "Second Testament of Christ in the New World" fail to condemn it?"

EXCELLENT question. Here's your answer:

The Book of Mormon is, first and foremost, a witness of the reality and divinity of Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Savior of the world. The Book of Mormon is absolutely crammed full of prophets' testimonies of Christ's reality and His love for God's children. The book also contains the fullness of His "gospel", meaning literally the "good news" of Jesus; which is, that permanent physical death and spiritual separation from God can be overcome thru Christ AND what the Savior requires of us to do so; to have faith in Jesus as our savior, to repent of our sins, to be baptized by one who has proper authority from God and to receive the Holy Ghost thru continual righteous living.

Please read next part....

Can you help a brother out! | 4:33 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

i really think the time is comming for the big break down..in todays technological world ...the image of lds will correspond as to who is in control of the media ..what i hate is the term called "group think" which leads directly to the good ol' boy syndrome..then to the prevalent double standards...then to the stiff-necked attitudes...all the while undermining the real good. why i feel like a pioneer myself...just color me sad as everything you do is perfect , perfect , everyone you know is perfect!

Yup | 4:45 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

"LOL....I know Elder Perry personally. I know for a fact that he could have stayed in the retail business and made far, far, far more money than he has serving the Church. Plus he would have a lot more free time to spend with family and friends rather than traveling all over the world frequently without his wife.

Just because you are so greedy with your money and time that you wouldn't part with it to serve others doesn't mean the rest of the world feels the same way you do..."

I'm sure LDS Apostles are the only ones who consecrate their lives to God. Another example of why this article was written.

crazycook | 4:57 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Mormons do not have a good rap because their leaders have lied from the very beginning and continue to do so and those who haven't left the church have their heads buried in the sand of "true" religion. Jesus is God--not our eldest brother. The church of Jesus Christ is NOT a organized world religion, but a spiritual organization that recognizes His True Power. Wake up and smell the whatever it is you drink.

posters 3:51pm and 4:09pm | 4:58 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

so you all actually do believe that a dude in the 1800s was visited by God and given the keys to the kingdom. And you're charged 10% of your wages to belong to the club...

and that the book of mormon sits higher than the bible, in that the bible may not be translated correctly, but the book of mormon is in fact the very word of God (as translated by a dude in the 1800s).

so how does one become a prophet? Seems like a cool job. I thought you had to live a couple thousand years ago, but evidently not...

is there an on-line course I can take? or do I have to go to BYU? how's the pay? Do I get the whole 10%, or just a cut?

on second thought, it's probably not much fun.... my understanding is you don't get to do much partying....

Anonymous | 6:09 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

I think it's funny how people post comments that they know they'll get a good reaction to.

Canadiandy | 6:20 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Realitycheck?

I had a real chuckle over your figure of 600 000 000 gay people in the world. Wow, never let the truth get in the way of a good rant, eh.

So is that one of those 87.3% of statistics that are made up on the spot? Are the names of these people on a list somewhere? Doesn't that equal over 10% of the entire population of the world. There aren't that many people in all of North America. Which sociological study came up with that one? Did it take into account population diversities? Or did someone simply ask 10 people in that representative locale of California and find one who claimed to be "gay." Then by extension they assumed one tenth of the entire population of the world was "gay?"

Man, looks like it's time for a real reality check.

If at first you don't succeed, manipulate your data.

600 000 000, you can't make that stuff up. But when you live in a State of over 27 000 000 000 people you're bound to find one who can't do math.

Altner | 7:03 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

From what I have read from all of these is that everyone is closed minded. The person over here believes, the person over there doesn't, and the person in the middle is unsure. What I can't stand is that people rip on my beliefs. I don't care what anyone else believes, as long as I believe in what I know and am doing.

Fighting against, disrespeting, and violating someones beliefs is just down right wrong. I am not going to disrepect them for feeling that way, or I would be against my own ways.

Just remember that if a person has beliefs makes them feel better, act better, and helps them understand themselves better (LDS, Scientologist, Jewish, ect.), why would anyone want to take that away from them? It doesn't depend on truth or not, just what the person believes.

Duh | 7:27 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Well, I am a member and I don't ever remember it being a popularity contest. The Church is hated/persecuted because it won't change its core beliefs. Wow, what a concept. The rest of the world, they change to conform to bad ideas. That's why we are hated, we won't accept that which is not right or true. Prop 8 was just an issue between man and woman. The Gay community twists it up and just wants us to accept their behavior as normal, guess what, won't happen, NEVER. We live to our true christian values. Sure we are not perfect, if we were, we wouldn't need God's help....and Anonymous, whatever you did, forgive yourself and seek some counseling because you sure have a lot of issues.

Glenn | 7:44 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

The power to love and forgive one's enemies comes from a higher source---not from us humans. When is the last time we all asked for help in loving and understanding our enemies? It doesn't come from universities or lab work or reason or logic nor from stock value or talent or personality or looks or who you know or what your last name is-----it only comes from books that can change a person's heart. Only murder and false witness gets in the way of truth spreading around the globe. But any person who knows history can say that people become stronger with persecution----it becomes a blessing in disguise. I can't prove there is a God, but if someone hates me, it is proof there is a negative force in the universe, and if there is a devil, there has to be a God.

Jenny | 7:51 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

I always thought LDS had a good image until I left the church 2 years ago and everyone I met who wasn't a member congratulated me on leaving. I was very shocked. I had no idea how bad the LDS image was.

RE: Jenny | 8:19 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

I am sorry that you left the church but why did you leave? Did you get offended by another individual who is not perfect, did you leave becuase the church would not conform to your ideas? I am curious. How much have you traveled, just around this country, and confessed that you were mormon to others (before leaving)? I have visited almost every state in this country, at least 35 of them and I have met wonderful people all over that have said many wonderful things about the church. Sure, they may not accept the way we worship or our ideas but they see our good deeds. We are good people. Perfection is not attainable in this life, we can only work towards it. We are not GOD's, we only strive for that goal. Good luck in whatever you do but I don't believe you will ever find personal happiness, peace, love and understanding as much as I have found within this church anywhere else. Also, you reap what you sow. And I bet your friends are just like you. Thats why they are your friends.

To Altner 7:03 | 8:28 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

You are correct and all would be fine if mormons would accept that they like other religions beleive. The problem comes with the mormons claiming they know and they are the only ones who do know amd therefore eveyone must believe what they know is the one and only true religion,etc. And that is one of the main causes of the problem between mormons and other churchs.

RE:Jenny | 8:35 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

I didn't realize the church had a bad image until I served a mission in the south. Mormons can not begin to understand that people treat them politely in person, but detest them as a rule.
And they have such huge egos they can't see the truth.
If Mitt's campaign did not open their eyes, nothing will.

for what its worth | 8:41 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

As someone that is no longer Mormon I would add to Re: jenny's post that what I have learned form life including traveling and living outside Utah as I still do is if you just live your life and try to be a good person people really do not care what your religion is unless you decide to make it an issue. People regardless of religion or location are mostly good and not much different then I am. Life is too short to be running around worrying about and holding on to bad feelings about what others think or do with their lives. For what little its worth I would suggest that people live their life's the way they see fit to do so and the rest will sort itself out.

Ben in Utah | 9:30 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Mormons don't have a bad image amongst those who are helped by those in yellow "Mormon Helping Hands" t-shirts. I don't think they have a bad image amongst those who are there when semi-loads of relief supplies roll up after natural disasters either. I am a missionary serving in SLC and we have a good image amongst those searching for their family history. Just thought I would share some good and uplifting thoughts.

Have a happy ever after :)

blueskyutah | 9:35 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

If the church thinks that it is Christ's original gospel re-arranged on the Earth then they are the one's who are misrepresenting themselves. What a gross exaggeration that would be.

To Clint Robertson | 9:57 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

Sure it will! The church will survive, you are just one of the members who fell away in the last days.

Bryan | 10:20 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

1st, there is nothing re-arranged in the Church. It is the same Church Christ has always had and lead.

2nd, there will always be image problems. Isn't that the design of the adversary? He will mix truth with a little bit of lie in order to turn people away from the light of the Gospel.

3rd, Romney was not running for mormonism, he was running for conservatism. Political polls and studies show that his religion played a very small role in his decline as a choice for the Republican nomination.

regards,

K | 10:53 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

No one starves to death tithing, whatever the percent. When you take a pay cut, your donation line decreases, it increases with raises. When you facing a financial crisis due to medical or job loss the first ones to step into help would be churches and faith based charities. Way before the government. And people who share with others from their income are also more disciplined with finanaces and likely able to save and that helps also in times of trouble. Tithing is a percentage. Churches don't have membership fees.

People live on the money left after the taxes are taken out of their checks. People live on the money left over after the 401K or pension dollars are taken out of their checks. People live on the money left after making charitable donations.

Not LDS but it doesn't matter how the church spends the money. We are called to give back to God. It doesn't matter if the church we belong to is rich or poor. It doesn't release us from our obligation to give back to God what he has given us and show in that way we trust him with our finances.

Reality come true... | 11:05 p.m. Nov. 25, 2008

These comments are are sad how ex and non members are attacking. We are in the last day. Myself, there is a trip to the Bishops Storehouse. I advise everyone in kind to take head. If these comments are any indication, we need to prepare.

Seriously!? | 12:40 a.m. Nov. 26, 2008

The comments posted here are why half of us 'virgins' are called 'wise' and half are not: People who post how picked on we poor Mormons are, who say our presentation doesn't need any work, and that awful old world needs to start being nicer to us poor persecuted Saints, these people make me think I belong to a church full (or half full) of hypocrites!

Read the book (whether its the Bible, Book of Mormon, or Gary Lawrence's), and love your neighbors enough to open your mouths! Maybe get out of your Utah bubble? Makes friends outside of the Church?

Just because someone doesn't agree with our view doesn't mean they're stupid or wicked. God loves every single one of His children here.

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