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LDS have big image problem
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Gary | 10:30 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008
I lived in Utah for several years as a teenager. I remember a friend that lived
in our church area and wasn't an LDS member. My LDS friends didn't
treat him well. I treated him well and I often wondered why they treated him
that way. I mean I understood where it was coming from, but did they have to do
that? They were just kids (teenagers) not knowing better, but if they were
approached about it today and asked to recall that memory, they'd probably
have pangs of guilt and feel bad about that and seek forgiveness. That's
because the parents don't teach the principle to love other neighbors
including non-LDS neighbors and the kids copy what their parents do. I have
never forgotten this and I have often wondered how that family did in the later
years because of this kind of treatment. LDS people in Utah have a long ways to
go in being able to accept any other people in their neighborhood of another
religion. I now live in another state and interestingly, the LDS get treated
down the same way from other kids in school, just like the non-LDS kids in Utah
get treated down.
Re: realitycheck | 10:39 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008
"what? His Commandments? You need to reread your bible. There are 10
commandments, and none say anything about marriage or sex outside of
marriage."
If I were you, I'd do a little re-reading yourself. There were only 10 commandments given by God to Moses AT THAT TIME. God was making a covenant with those specific people at that moment (though the rest of us should follow them too), saying that if they kept those commandments, they would be blessed. But over the course of the Bible, there are literally hundreds of commandments given, and many others are referred to as being commandments whent there is no existing record of a specific edict.
As for marriage and sex outside of marriage, "Thou shalt not commit adultery" seems pretty all inclusive to me. Don't forget that Christ added to that during His early ministry, saying that to even lust after a person is equivalent to doing the deed. There are many instances where the scriptures don't differentiate between adultery and fornication, but there are also repeated mentions that fornication is a grievous sin. Check out 1 Thess. 4:3, Acts 15:20, 1 Cor. 6:9&13, 1 Cor. 10:8, and Matt. 15:19, for starters.
If I were you, I'd do a little re-reading yourself. There were only 10 commandments given by God to Moses AT THAT TIME. God was making a covenant with those specific people at that moment (though the rest of us should follow them too), saying that if they kept those commandments, they would be blessed. But over the course of the Bible, there are literally hundreds of commandments given, and many others are referred to as being commandments whent there is no existing record of a specific edict.
As for marriage and sex outside of marriage, "Thou shalt not commit adultery" seems pretty all inclusive to me. Don't forget that Christ added to that during His early ministry, saying that to even lust after a person is equivalent to doing the deed. There are many instances where the scriptures don't differentiate between adultery and fornication, but there are also repeated mentions that fornication is a grievous sin. Check out 1 Thess. 4:3, Acts 15:20, 1 Cor. 6:9&13, 1 Cor. 10:8, and Matt. 15:19, for starters.
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 10:41 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008
Good thing he did his survey before Prop H8. I bet the results would be even
worse now!
LonelyCatholic | 10:46 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008
After reading 7 pages of comments I have forgotten the topic. I think it was
about the Image of the LDS Church. Well, in my opinion...oh, forget it. Reading
all these rants has made me lose interest. I am going for coffee ( or beverage
of choice ) Come on. Go with me. Let's stop all this bickering and have a
big GROUP HUG !!!
BDawg | 10:54 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008
I just want to respond to the knuckle head Anonymous writer about the BOOK of
Revelations. They quoted that ever so famous verse "You must not add or
take away from this book" Well that BOOK is the BOOK of Revelations. The
Bible was compiled by Catholics over Years and Years. It was strategically
placed at the END of the Bible.
To re: DHM at 6:03 | 11:06 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008
"see - your problem is you still consider women to be the lesser sex"
Where did you get that idea? The church absolutely does not consider women to be lesser than men. That is 100% false! But the church does teach that men and women are different and have different roles. Men and women compliment and support each other in their roles. God made women and men different for specific reasons. But both are equal in His eyes.
Where did you get that idea? The church absolutely does not consider women to be lesser than men. That is 100% false! But the church does teach that men and women are different and have different roles. Men and women compliment and support each other in their roles. God made women and men different for specific reasons. But both are equal in His eyes.
So easy to spout | 11:12 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008
I am reminded of The Emperor and Darth Vader telling Luke Skywalker to give in
to the hate when I read these threads. Although this Lee Benson article was
calculated to get that hate banter flowing, please be wise and consider your
responses. The ignorance and prejudice can only be turned through kindness and
experience with Mormons who actually live their religion. Sorry to those who
have been offended either by any if us.
What a blessing I have discovered in this remarkable religion. It has changed my life in so many good ways. I wish, hope and yes, even pray you could get past the hate mongering and figure out what is really going on here. There is an incredibly powerful, incredibly good side to be found here. Cut through the smoke screen and misdirection. Discover it, then pass it on. Be a light to others. "True doctrine, understood, changes attitudes and behavior.� Seek it. Nothing else can bring such complete happiness.
What a blessing I have discovered in this remarkable religion. It has changed my life in so many good ways. I wish, hope and yes, even pray you could get past the hate mongering and figure out what is really going on here. There is an incredibly powerful, incredibly good side to be found here. Cut through the smoke screen and misdirection. Discover it, then pass it on. Be a light to others. "True doctrine, understood, changes attitudes and behavior.� Seek it. Nothing else can bring such complete happiness.
John C. | 11:13 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008
To Re God inside you: Your statement is quite false as it says in our thirteen
articals of faith "We believe the Bible the word of God as fare as it is
translated correctly. We believe the Book of Mormon to also be the word of
God"
You would be surprised how much we study the Bible. We charish it as the Word of God. From my experiace we take it more litarely then most other Christian faiths.
You would be surprised how much we study the Bible. We charish it as the Word of God. From my experiace we take it more litarely then most other Christian faiths.
God IS inside you | 11:25 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008
we all have access to God. the best thing any religion can do, LDS or otherwise,
is point the way inside. once you find that eternal connection religion is no
longer necessary.
one day we'll all see.
one day we'll all see.
RE: Gary Halley 6:03 | 11:28 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008
WHAT???? You choose to ignore the words of the Apostle Paul? The words of the
holy prophets means nothing to you? You are equating somebody named Ted Haggard
to the Apostle Paul? Unbelievable!!
You want statements from Jesus Christ himself? Here goes. In the four Gospels Jesus the Christ states repeatedly that the man is not without the woman in the Lord. Reference Matthew chapter 19, Mark Chapter 10 or Luke Chapter 20. Need more - reference 1 Corinthians Chapter 11:11.
Get your bible out and read it. Also don't tell anyone here that the old testement is completely irrelevant. What about the 10 commandments?
You state "why should a skeptic like myself not feel that your church is manufacturing this religion as it goes along". You choose to ignore holy scripture even as it is quoted to you. Who is manufacturing what to fit their belief system? The LDS church or yourself? Look in the mirror.
Now you show me anywhere in the bible where Jesus Christ or his twelve apostles say homosexuality is not a sin. Right back at you.
The difference between you and I is that I will accept the Bible for what it says.
You want statements from Jesus Christ himself? Here goes. In the four Gospels Jesus the Christ states repeatedly that the man is not without the woman in the Lord. Reference Matthew chapter 19, Mark Chapter 10 or Luke Chapter 20. Need more - reference 1 Corinthians Chapter 11:11.
Get your bible out and read it. Also don't tell anyone here that the old testement is completely irrelevant. What about the 10 commandments?
You state "why should a skeptic like myself not feel that your church is manufacturing this religion as it goes along". You choose to ignore holy scripture even as it is quoted to you. Who is manufacturing what to fit their belief system? The LDS church or yourself? Look in the mirror.
Now you show me anywhere in the bible where Jesus Christ or his twelve apostles say homosexuality is not a sin. Right back at you.
The difference between you and I is that I will accept the Bible for what it says.
Erick S. Anderson | 11:50 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008
Deseret News you post a lot of garbage and should be shameful to represent the
LDS Church. I am ashamed of you and many of the LDS posters as we have been
taught better. The non-member comments bring me speechless but we have taught
our own better and it is disappointing to read this trash. I think it is time to
just bring news to the people and not let brash commentary to each article.
We are better than this and should not contribute to the demise of society and printed works.
We are better than this and should not contribute to the demise of society and printed works.
Chris | 11:56 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008
God loves everyone equally which is something an LDS leader, a Seventy said in
1994 in his last talk in conference.
The following are my words: the question now is----do we love Him? Some of these comments have said that we LDS do not invite people or their children to activites--that we exclude-- and some say we come over and bother them too much, so I don't see how both can be going on. Perhaps some people we bother too much and some we don't invite out enough. We have never claimed to be perfect; we struggle with salvation every day. We laugh, have feelings, and worry just like everyone else. If Mormomism isn't for you, fine. But there are many people in the world who do need Mormonism, which helps them get out of poverty, gives them a book that softens their heart and helps them get an eduction and gives them a community of hope. Eighty years ago everyone in this country would go dancing every weekend. Perhaps we should start that up again--that would bring us all together--which would bring us together more than this forum.
The following are my words: the question now is----do we love Him? Some of these comments have said that we LDS do not invite people or their children to activites--that we exclude-- and some say we come over and bother them too much, so I don't see how both can be going on. Perhaps some people we bother too much and some we don't invite out enough. We have never claimed to be perfect; we struggle with salvation every day. We laugh, have feelings, and worry just like everyone else. If Mormomism isn't for you, fine. But there are many people in the world who do need Mormonism, which helps them get out of poverty, gives them a book that softens their heart and helps them get an eduction and gives them a community of hope. Eighty years ago everyone in this country would go dancing every weekend. Perhaps we should start that up again--that would bring us all together--which would bring us together more than this forum.
It's Funny | 12:55 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
I love it when people make judgements towards the church and not make a
judgement on themselves. Why would you even ask someone to give up their beliefs
when you probably dont have any beliefs yourself. I find it hard when people
that read the Bible take it and interpret it with their own feelings and
thoughts. So, are you adding to it and taking away from it? Every religion has
added to and taken away from the Bible why do you think there are all those
religions out there. Do you fault the LDS church for believing in their religion
even to go as far as to laying their lives down for what they believe in. What
is so great is these so called protester for gay rights are so high on there
rights that they stand outside the Temple walls and try to keep law abiding
citizens of the US their right to worship. dont have a problem with gay people
, but when it opens the door for my right to keep what is sacred to me safe
there is a problem.
What??? | 1:19 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
He's a researcher and only interviewed 1,000 people? He needs to go back to
Stats 101 and learn what he's doing. I'm sorry, but any national poll
with a population of only 1,000 isn't worth the effort to write about.
Rick | 1:31 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
Jonathan | 7:47 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008
To All the anti-mormons, if you are so damaged and hate living among mormons then leave. I-15 leads N-S and I 80 leads E-W. There are many opportunities out there to live people of your ilk. If you don't like it then leave.
Why stay living in the misery of loving and caring people? You people are to much.
Sadly, that post right there, validates this article. That ignorance hurts, both LDS AND non-LDS people, and just KILLS the image of the LDS church. There are many reasons for non-LDS people to move to Utah. Its beautiful, relatively stable economy and job rates, relatively low crime, and a moral place to live. As its been said by many of us non-Mormons, it isn't so much the church as the members themselves. A lot, NOT ALL, hold themselves to the belief they are better than the non-members, and that attitude kills your church's image. As it would ANY church's image.
Anonymous | 1:37 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
When I lived in Utah, we had non member neighbors who were very involved in the
neighborhood. The Mom was even a cub scout leader. They made it clear they
weren't interested in joining, but wanted to be very involved socially.
They were and everyone got along well. Their kids were well liked and always
included. We had other non member neighbors who would literally turn their
backs on you when driving by. They seemed to think if they made eye contact,
they'd be forced to join. Ha ha. Growing up I wasn't allowed to play
with some kids because of my parents behavior. I can't say I blame those
other parents. I wouldn't let my kids play at a home where smoking,
drinking, vulgarity, anti Mormon rantings were the norm. I am none the worse
for wear. If parents feel they need to protect their kids, so be it. Just
don't leave kids out because they're not LDS. I know many non LDS
people who have very strong morals and are genuinely good people.
follow Gods prophet | 5:26 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
I would rather follow the words and leadership of the Lords chosen prophet and
apostles than any other so called government 'UN body' or president.
I am 62 years old and have had my fill of so called new world leaders!
I am 62 years old and have had my fill of so called new world leaders!
persecution | 6:10 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
This whole persecution complex by the LDS faithful has to be the best example of
a self fulfilling prophecy ever.
Bob2 | 6:41 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
I'm sorry, but the world is morally going to h-e-double toothpicks in a
handbasket. I don't want to be popular with the gays, progressives,
elitists, abortionists, illegal immigrants and other jerks who are the cause of
the world going down the drain. I want to be popular with the good people. 39%
works fine for me. A small, but mighty and virtuous army fighting an uphill
battle.
Waaaahhhh!!! | 6:47 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
What a bunch of whiners! I'm living in Utah because I like it here. I
have mormon neighbors,and neighbors who are not mormons. Some are great...and
some are not. The quality of neighbor has more to do with the personality of
the neighbor than it does their religion.
I have a word of advice to my fellow non-mormons who want to whine all of the time. GET OUT!!! No one is forcing you to stay here. It's getting too crowded anyway. I'll gladly stay behind and enjoy the state of Utah, and I'll thank the mormons for being the primary builders of this wonderful culture in which I CHOOSE to live.
I have a word of advice to my fellow non-mormons who want to whine all of the time. GET OUT!!! No one is forcing you to stay here. It's getting too crowded anyway. I'll gladly stay behind and enjoy the state of Utah, and I'll thank the mormons for being the primary builders of this wonderful culture in which I CHOOSE to live.
SLC Resident | 7:29 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
I, for one, love living here, and have great neighbors. They all are kind,
courteous, mind their own business and guess what, religion never comes up.
Gotta love SLC's Aves--like the song says, How lucky can one guy be!
to What??? | 7:56 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
YOU need to go back to stats 101. take a survey research class. or go to aapor
dot org.
i'm a survey researcher too and a random sample of 1066 from a population nearing infinity gives a sampling error of +/- 3%.
this is a very good number of completed surveys.
i'm a survey researcher too and a random sample of 1066 from a population nearing infinity gives a sampling error of +/- 3%.
this is a very good number of completed surveys.
Grandmother | 8:08 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
I'm continually surprised at the church members who are astonished that
many outside of the Church view us with derision. Misunderstandings contribute
to these views, which will only be changed as people get to know us
individually, and as we get our own act together to actually be nice to others
not of our faith, and get rid of labels. (Non-member, inactive) The more insular
we are, the more these attitudes abound.
This doesn't mean that we change and become untrue to our standards or deny our doctrine. It does mean that we are genuinely friendly for no other purpose than to actually like others, that we answer questions of curiosity about our religion, and that we live our religion. This means becoming more Christlike and less judgmental. Bible bashing should never occur.
Many people in Utah who are members of the Church have never lived anywhere else. There is a whole world out there of people with different beliefs and customs. We need to engender respect while being firm in our own convictions, and admit to our weaknesses as human beings.
Use President Hinckley and President Monson as examples of how to do this.
This doesn't mean that we change and become untrue to our standards or deny our doctrine. It does mean that we are genuinely friendly for no other purpose than to actually like others, that we answer questions of curiosity about our religion, and that we live our religion. This means becoming more Christlike and less judgmental. Bible bashing should never occur.
Many people in Utah who are members of the Church have never lived anywhere else. There is a whole world out there of people with different beliefs and customs. We need to engender respect while being firm in our own convictions, and admit to our weaknesses as human beings.
Use President Hinckley and President Monson as examples of how to do this.
Jack Mason | 8:29 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
What a waste of everyone's time and mental faculties (including those of
the author of the original article)!
The history | 8:30 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
Simply put, as many have already said, and with no real doubts in my mind...it
is the "history" that causes us our negative perception problems. Our
history is romanticized and whitewashed. The extremely weird stuff from our
early history is much better known outside of Mormondom and that knowledge
poisins the well against our church today. The only fix is to come clean about
all of it, denounce what was obviously wicked and say that we will "do
better". People are generally forgiving. I know many LDS people believe
this will take away the "one and only true church status", but to be
"clean" about everything will overwhelm the loss of that status. We
can all worship Christ together.
OKC | 8:33 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
Bring on the positive and negative. Both types of publicity result in the same
thing people who come to ask questions and search for a little more than the
partial images the Bible contains.
Then those who truly read the Book of Mormon find out for themselfs it is true. What better too could there be. Negative attentions aslo feeds the testimony of the members of the LDS faith. Through Trials we learn, not through success.
Then those who truly read the Book of Mormon find out for themselfs it is true. What better too could there be. Negative attentions aslo feeds the testimony of the members of the LDS faith. Through Trials we learn, not through success.
suzyk | 8:34 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
I found many of the remarks comical. This is what is true: God the Father and
his Son Jesus Christ appeared to a young man, Joseph Smith in a grove of trees
and through this great incident came what we believe to be TRUE..THE BOOK OF
MORMON. There will always be members and non-members not living up to their
baptismal covenants and endowments in the Temple. I believe it is those people
who bring a lot of unrest, confusion, bias, anger toward the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints. Members in good standing know life on earth was not
meant to be easy it is the time to improve ourselves, to not stand in judgement
and to prepare for our return to Heavenly Father. It's this truth that
people do not understand and who choose to form opinions..opinions with no
basis, truth or fact. I've never thought about my membership being
popular...I live it because I believe it and no one could take that away from
me. I know what is TRUTH and I feel compassion for others who choose because of
ignorance to denegrate the goodness and pureness of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
IT IS THE TRUTH.
re: jack mason | 9:09 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
"What a waste of everyone's time and mental faculties (including those
of the author of the original article)!"
...and yet here you are.
...and yet here you are.
I Was Taught | 9:24 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
There Goes the Neighborhood | 9:30 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
And now Mr. Dobson and his Focus on the Family outfit are circulating a petition
supporting the LDS Church. The two outfits deserve each other. Oh THAT will
improve the church's image all right!
Glass houses | 9:48 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
I was taught that people who live in glass houses should close their blinds. If
you don't close them we will see your image.
caedmon | 9:50 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
Animosity towards Mormons is more the result of their own institutional
arrogance than theological disagreements.
Mormons claim that theirs is the �one true church�. Claiming that God himself has declared all other churches to be false, ALL an �abomination� before God and those who profess those creeds are �corrupt�. Prior to 1990, the temple ceremony included the portrayal of a Protestant minister as a servant of Satan.
Mormons do not permit non-Mormon parents to be present at temple wedding ceremonies of their own children; forcing couples into making the people who love them wait outside with broken hearts.
People who leave the Mormon church are slandered as sinful and demeaned as too weak or lazy to live the rules.
Mormons perform proxy baptisms for the dead (usually without the permission or knowledge of the person�s living relatives) to make the posthumous Mormons.
While governor, Mike Leavitt, held secret meetings on government time to study LDS scriptures and determine how "just and holy" Mormon principles could be integrated into state public policy.
Prop 8?
This survey could be useful, but instead of taking the results to heart and examining their own behavior, Mormons will cry "anti-Mormon bigots", "Persecution"!
Mormons claim that theirs is the �one true church�. Claiming that God himself has declared all other churches to be false, ALL an �abomination� before God and those who profess those creeds are �corrupt�. Prior to 1990, the temple ceremony included the portrayal of a Protestant minister as a servant of Satan.
Mormons do not permit non-Mormon parents to be present at temple wedding ceremonies of their own children; forcing couples into making the people who love them wait outside with broken hearts.
People who leave the Mormon church are slandered as sinful and demeaned as too weak or lazy to live the rules.
Mormons perform proxy baptisms for the dead (usually without the permission or knowledge of the person�s living relatives) to make the posthumous Mormons.
While governor, Mike Leavitt, held secret meetings on government time to study LDS scriptures and determine how "just and holy" Mormon principles could be integrated into state public policy.
Prop 8?
This survey could be useful, but instead of taking the results to heart and examining their own behavior, Mormons will cry "anti-Mormon bigots", "Persecution"!
re Johnathan 7:47 pm | 10:03 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
oh - so you mormons own Utah now, eh? now THAT's funny.
and you wonder why we think you are full of yourselves...
and you wonder why we think you are full of yourselves...
Same PR firm | 10:06 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
I suppose the image problem is due to the head of the church still using the
same PR firm he used 2000 years ago.
That didn't go well either... yet he didn't let it bother Him.
(New Testament | Luke 23:34)
34 � Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
That didn't go well either... yet he didn't let it bother Him.
(New Testament | Luke 23:34)
34 � Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Simpltons Image | 10:20 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
Would you people quit grumbling. No one is hurting you.
realitycheck | 10:21 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
re John Pack Lambert 8:58pm
"living prophets"??? there's your image problem. You have living prophets.
but I have to ask - you believe in prophets walking among us and leading your church... that's one of the reasons many think your religion is one of convenience... anyone can be a prophet, if he can convince others. Like Jeffs although I understand he's not regular mormon - he's fundamentalist mormon)
It's an important fact, since you take their words and say they are in fact the gospel of Jesus Christ. In other words, you believe the people that claim to be living prophets actually speak directly to Jesus, and you take their direction to be the word of God. (Even the Pope isn't considered a prophet, and he leads billions of people - so you can understand why the masses may think your religion is a little out there...)
so - please explain how a mere mortal man proves to you that he is a living prophet? It's important, since not only does it become church doctrine, but in fact you consider their words to have the weight of God...
"living prophets"??? there's your image problem. You have living prophets.
but I have to ask - you believe in prophets walking among us and leading your church... that's one of the reasons many think your religion is one of convenience... anyone can be a prophet, if he can convince others. Like Jeffs although I understand he's not regular mormon - he's fundamentalist mormon)
It's an important fact, since you take their words and say they are in fact the gospel of Jesus Christ. In other words, you believe the people that claim to be living prophets actually speak directly to Jesus, and you take their direction to be the word of God. (Even the Pope isn't considered a prophet, and he leads billions of people - so you can understand why the masses may think your religion is a little out there...)
so - please explain how a mere mortal man proves to you that he is a living prophet? It's important, since not only does it become church doctrine, but in fact you consider their words to have the weight of God...
Dave | 10:25 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
To Mark:
What would we have you do?
A#1 (in my book) would be to keep your beliefs to yourself. That way your arrogance and smug attitudes
would not be on display.
Beware of those that say "All is well in Zion".
All is NOT well as the poll indicates. YOU may not like the poll results as indicated by your smug response of "why should we care". Apparently your church leaders ARE concerned. They hired a high-power (and expensive) PR firm to deal with the negativity looong before this poll came out.
Nobody likes a zealot. If you have a truth that will better my life, the way to turn me off is to be in my face with a smug attitude and a bulging carotid artery.
What would we have you do?
A#1 (in my book) would be to keep your beliefs to yourself. That way your arrogance and smug attitudes
would not be on display.
Beware of those that say "All is well in Zion".
All is NOT well as the poll indicates. YOU may not like the poll results as indicated by your smug response of "why should we care". Apparently your church leaders ARE concerned. They hired a high-power (and expensive) PR firm to deal with the negativity looong before this poll came out.
Nobody likes a zealot. If you have a truth that will better my life, the way to turn me off is to be in my face with a smug attitude and a bulging carotid artery.
Bill | 10:45 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
I agree with all the testimonies of the truth that have been borne here. No
matter what has been said against us the Lord's Church will never have a
favorable image or be popular. We will not denounce the BOOK OF MORMON nor the
BIBLE. We will not denounce Joseph Smith nor any of the Presidents of the
Church since as prophets, seers and revelators. To do so would bring the wrath
of the Lord down upon us. We need to stand united as a people and as a Church.
Whether you agree with us or not really isn't the problem. We shall always
be hated because of stands. That is a give me. We the members of the Church
need to be strong and a voice of reason. No blog like this will change minds or
even make friends. It will be an opening to continue to voice our standards.
Let's not be selfish | 10:47 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
There is enough room for everyone in UTAH to live here.. non-member, inactive
member, somewhat active, and active member. We must all remember that we are ALL
Gods children, and that we need to learn that everyone else is loved
"equally" by God no matter who they are, and not just the Mormons.
Utah is mormon? | 10:56 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
since when did Utah become mormon? that's so sad that a church would think
it owns an entire state...
Jumbo Slice | 11:03 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
Who dug up the old fossil Lee Benson?
Melissa | 11:08 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
Mormons themselves make the bad impressions upon their neighbors. They befriend
people with the sole intention of converting them. They quietly tell their
children to attempt to convert their childhood friends without consulting the
parents. When their friends either tell them to back off, or show no interest,
the Mormons drop them as friends. Friendships with Mormons are superficial,
because Mormons are superficial and care nothing about non-believers other than
getting more people in the "church." Meanwhile, we see the wives in
your faith treated without any respect - they're barely second class
citizens. We see your children disowned because they choose not to go on
missions they cannot afford (either financially or physically). We see them
come back from these missions completely destroyed as human beings, expected to
marry young and breed children they struggle to feed. And we do not see your
community help those WITHIN your community who need it (single mothers abandoned
by "priesthood holding" fathers, for example) THAT is why we
non-Mormons don't have high respect for Mormon culture, folks. We find
your backward, obnoxious, and close-minded ways deplorable.
Utah Image | 11:12 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
The Mormons settle Utah, it is basically a Mormon state since the Mormon
pioneers settled here in 1847. That's the way it is folks. You aren't
ever going to run the Mormons out of Utah (NOT EVER) because this is their home.
They made this place what it is today. The Mormons came here to escape bigotry
and hatred. Please try to accept this and get on with your life. However,
Mormons need not be pushy with others out there just because they are different.
We just need to try to get along. It always works both ways.
aaron | 11:20 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
Its base on the idea that once you know something, you can't un-know it.
Obviously, to truly understand the LDS church, there is a level of faith involved.
That faith in part requires a lifestyle change.
I would think that most people don't feel they need a lifestyle change.
For that reason, people outside the church avoid learning much about the LDS church at all.
For the most part, its like an all or nothing deal.
Obviously, to truly understand the LDS church, there is a level of faith involved.
That faith in part requires a lifestyle change.
I would think that most people don't feel they need a lifestyle change.
For that reason, people outside the church avoid learning much about the LDS church at all.
For the most part, its like an all or nothing deal.
God loves you | 11:30 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
Re Melissa,
You are not helping anything with your bad attitude. All People need to quit being so judgmental of everyone else. WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT and need to realize this!
You are not helping anything with your bad attitude. All People need to quit being so judgmental of everyone else. WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT and need to realize this!
realitycheck | 11:46 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
re "re:realitycheck" 10:39pm
"But over the course of the Bible, there are literally hundreds of commandments given, and many others are referred to as being commandments when there is no existing record of a specific edict."
"As for marriage and sex outside of marriage, "Thou shalt not commit adultery" seems pretty all inclusive to me." ..."fornication is a grievous sin."
what?
hundreds of commandments? fornication is a grievous sin? adultery covers everything?
wow - no wonder you people are so stuck in the midle ages. And you don't even follow the first commandment. You idolize those men that you believe to be prophets. There haven't been new prophets since Jesus.
The ten commandments stand alone:
Adultery means don't cheat on your spouse and don't be with (biblically) another's spouse.
Don't murder, lie, cheat, or steal...
Doesn't say anything about sex... Nothing wrong with sex between consenting adults, unless you live in the 1800s and march down the dusty street outside the saloon and cathouse with Temperance League signs..
If you think the entire bible is a rule book, then you have totally mistaken it's meaning. And that's sad, since that's equal to believing the world is flat...
"But over the course of the Bible, there are literally hundreds of commandments given, and many others are referred to as being commandments when there is no existing record of a specific edict."
"As for marriage and sex outside of marriage, "Thou shalt not commit adultery" seems pretty all inclusive to me." ..."fornication is a grievous sin."
what?
hundreds of commandments? fornication is a grievous sin? adultery covers everything?
wow - no wonder you people are so stuck in the midle ages. And you don't even follow the first commandment. You idolize those men that you believe to be prophets. There haven't been new prophets since Jesus.
The ten commandments stand alone:
Adultery means don't cheat on your spouse and don't be with (biblically) another's spouse.
Don't murder, lie, cheat, or steal...
Doesn't say anything about sex... Nothing wrong with sex between consenting adults, unless you live in the 1800s and march down the dusty street outside the saloon and cathouse with Temperance League signs..
If you think the entire bible is a rule book, then you have totally mistaken it's meaning. And that's sad, since that's equal to believing the world is flat...
Um, Melissa... | 11:49 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
... if you've in fact observed examples of the things happening you
describe, let me assure you they're the RARE EXCEPTIONS, not the rule. For
only two examples: I seriously doubt most LDS parents would ever disown their
children for not serving missions, and most missionaries I've ever known do
NOT come home "completely destroyed as human beings."
Building bridges requires mutual tolerance and understanding. I honestly don't sense that you're willing to do that at this point, though I hope you'll open up in the future. People who don't approach ANY social group or culture with an open mind shouldn't be surprised to find that they don't feel at home--ANYWHERE.
It goes both ways. LDS people should NEVER close their minds to their non-LDS neighbors and shut them out--AND those non-LDS neighbors shouldn't return the favor. Surprisingly enough, we can all get along if we put our minds to it.
Building bridges requires mutual tolerance and understanding. I honestly don't sense that you're willing to do that at this point, though I hope you'll open up in the future. People who don't approach ANY social group or culture with an open mind shouldn't be surprised to find that they don't feel at home--ANYWHERE.
It goes both ways. LDS people should NEVER close their minds to their non-LDS neighbors and shut them out--AND those non-LDS neighbors shouldn't return the favor. Surprisingly enough, we can all get along if we put our minds to it.
It's Satan Of Course | 11:57 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
I am a member and love the Church but never cease to be amazed and humored by
the timeless response to any criticism - "it is of satan", "it is
a sign of the times", "god's church will always be
criticized", etc etc. Do we recognize that as members we feel a need (based
on the fear of criticizing the church or leaders) to shut off any self-critique
or reflection when it comes to the church or its leaders? We tend to have a very
healthy ability to be self-reflective and accepting of honest feedback about
ourselves personally, our children, our career decisions, etc. But when it comes
to the church or church leaders we instantly switch to an entirely different way
of thinking and reasoning. We switch to defensive, end-times,
its-all-part-of-satan's-plan or from anti-mormonism mode. Do we actually
see or realize this or is it so engrained and responsive that we don't? Of
course this only applies to the present or distant past as we are able to
criticize or see our long past leaders as the men they were living in different
times and therefore acknowledge with a clear conscience that some things were
wrong. But not today.
TrueSoutherner | 11:58 a.m. Nov. 25, 2008
I am from a central southern state right in the middle of the Bible belt where
you could definitely say that you find persecution and anti-Mormon ideas which
come directly from preacher mouths and the garbage that they put out to convince
their congregations that Mormons are evil, yaddayaddayadda. You find bullet
holes in buildings, not in the inner city alone, mind you either. Missionaries
get run over on bicycles occasionally and even arrested for some of the most
idiotic things. I know because my father had to bail ours out of jail after
being arrested and falsely charged with some crazy thing just to make a
statement by the corrupt Sherriff who has later now been convicted himself of
using inmates to landscape his own yard. Same guy also was accused of making
people disappear before officially arresting them so there was no record of them
even being in contact with the law. We still held our values and took it on the
chin for years. That's the way it is. The righteous always get persecuted,
especially when proselyting and trying to share the message of the Lord. Satan
would not have it any other way.
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Perhaps we should take the words of Christ as commandments we must keep in order to return to our Heavenly Father's presence - after all, that's what the Savior said repeatedly while on Earth. If you ignore the largest part of His message, what good does that do you?
"you can learn lessons from the bible - and you can learn lessons from Aesops Fables. Neither holds more weight than the other - and both have strong messages that will help a person stay on course."
You think the Bible has no more authority than Aesop's Fables? While Aesop was full of common sense, he wasn't exactly on par with a prophet of God. He doesn't give eternal truths that are necessary for salvation. Benjamin Franklin and Winston Churchill were both full of common sense as well, very practical men, but I consider the words of Christ, John and Moses to be much more worthwhile.