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LDS have big image problem
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C. Smith | 12:24 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
Well, who ever said that the Mormons would be popular and well liked? Not Joesph
Smith, nor Brigham Young. They knew the saints would be persecuted. Mormons have
strong beliefs, beliefs that claim religious authority. That kind of strong
belief system that declares sole authority in religious affairs will always be
met with strong opposition.
What Do You Expect??!! | 12:45 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
Even the church leaders was suprised from their mistaken perception that the
church was taking steps into the mainstream, when their mormon candidate fell
quickly by the wayside, after a landslide rejection of Mitt Romney.
What's surprising is how the church leaders somehow came to the conclusion otherwise?
I guess Heavenly Father must have not told them yet. But hey, they're supposed to be seers and revelators, and man, what revelation they got when the utter rejection of Romney came to the surface.
The church's image problem is not exacerbated with the gay issues, and I believe, the church's decline of retention will continue to slide further, as the church's losses of membership will progress.
What's surprising is how the church leaders somehow came to the conclusion otherwise?
I guess Heavenly Father must have not told them yet. But hey, they're supposed to be seers and revelators, and man, what revelation they got when the utter rejection of Romney came to the surface.
The church's image problem is not exacerbated with the gay issues, and I believe, the church's decline of retention will continue to slide further, as the church's losses of membership will progress.
Californian #2 | 12:46 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
Jesus Christ taught love, harmony, peace, and the love of God, but He
didn't always enjoy the best PR either.
If He had worried continually about His image & being liked by everyone, the original gospel would never have been preached to the world & Christianity would have been another flash-in-the-pan small-time sect.
The true Church and its people need to focus more on loving God and our neighbor, less on whether our neighbor loves us. Instead of assuring ourselves that "God is on our side," we need to ensure that we are on His. And in the long run everything will work out.
If He had worried continually about His image & being liked by everyone, the original gospel would never have been preached to the world & Christianity would have been another flash-in-the-pan small-time sect.
The true Church and its people need to focus more on loving God and our neighbor, less on whether our neighbor loves us. Instead of assuring ourselves that "God is on our side," we need to ensure that we are on His. And in the long run everything will work out.
Comments continue below
KC Saint | 2:21 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
Bravo to Californian #2. I agree 100%.
I do think it's a combination of what Joseph Smith/Brigham Young taught (and the Lord) and also what this survey guy is saying: we shouldn't compromise any of our principles or beliefs, but we certainly could reach out more to "the world" and find ways to make our beliefs more appealing. Not by altering our beliefs, but by altering its presentation and simply being men of God. The Lord taught that the world hates Him (John 7:7, 15:18), but through His miracles and teachings still found a way to get "the world" to at least respect Him and recognize His divinity...several hundred years later (Christianity, Islam/Judaism referring to Him as a prophet).
I think this is a good thing to think about. Should we be content in a near-arrogant sort of way by effectually saying, "Who cares what anyone thinks, we're the Kingdom and they need to jump aboard or be thrust down," or to find baby-steps (What about Bob!) in reaching out to communities and even the darker circles through constant, eternal and yes even unrequited love and long-suffering. They will come to us. Give it time...and long-suffering.
I do think it's a combination of what Joseph Smith/Brigham Young taught (and the Lord) and also what this survey guy is saying: we shouldn't compromise any of our principles or beliefs, but we certainly could reach out more to "the world" and find ways to make our beliefs more appealing. Not by altering our beliefs, but by altering its presentation and simply being men of God. The Lord taught that the world hates Him (John 7:7, 15:18), but through His miracles and teachings still found a way to get "the world" to at least respect Him and recognize His divinity...several hundred years later (Christianity, Islam/Judaism referring to Him as a prophet).
I think this is a good thing to think about. Should we be content in a near-arrogant sort of way by effectually saying, "Who cares what anyone thinks, we're the Kingdom and they need to jump aboard or be thrust down," or to find baby-steps (What about Bob!) in reaching out to communities and even the darker circles through constant, eternal and yes even unrequited love and long-suffering. They will come to us. Give it time...and long-suffering.
Dear what do you expect? | 3:34 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
Romney's campaign hardly fell like a rock. He lasted a lot longer than Joe
Biden did. Most people cannot even remember Biden tried to run for president
this time. Romney didn't loose by a landslide any more than Hillary did.
He was still in the top three long after the other 8 fell off. (I bet you cannot
even name the other Republicans that were running). Still I agree the LDS have
an image problem, a serious one. I've lived in the South where I see it a
lot.
annie | 3:41 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
I will buy this book. The past two weeks has demonstrated that we need a lot
more than 39% of the people to view us favorably. I don't expect everyone
to like us, but I think the true message of who we are is not out there. We
have so much in common with other faiths. When I was ten my mother sat me down
with a chart of religious beliefs and said "We are 95% in agreement on most
views, truth is truth, so find that common ground."
kidnephi | 3:41 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
Until the members of the LDS Church start living the gospel and being better
examples, the Church is always going to have an image problem. It needs to
start right at home in Salt Lake. I know of members who will not let their
children play with non-member children and an area up near Ogden that is a
gated, closed community only letting members of the Church move in. As Pres.
Hinckley stated, "Let's see what we have in common and we will show
you what we can add to it". All religions have some truths, but we
proclaim to have all the keys that will allow us the opportunity to have eternal
life and an eternal family. It was interesting to hear a member of the Quorum
of Twleve Apostles state that,"It is interesting to see that we still do
missionary work the same way for the past 170 years. I think we need to try and
go in a differant direction." I don't thing he was referring to not
doing missionary work, but just a differant way to approach it. Come on members,
try and get a little more creative.
Anonymous | 4:09 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
Mormons break away from the bible which is against what it says in the Book of
Revelation that "You must not add to or take away from this book".
awsomeron | 4:33 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
A poll. of 1000 people does not make a dent in a question in a Country of 300
Million Plus.
One of the problems is that Mormons sometimes think that they are not only Separate but far, far more then equal. Even among themselves. Singles being the Prime Example. We have a Word and a Class and a Box and an expectation for everyone.
However everyone does Not fit in a Box and All does Not Apply, to everything regardless of the Demographic.
Demographics work wonderful and are the Salvation of Direct Marketing. Give me the right Demographic and I can sell stock in the Bridge between San Francisco and Hilo Hawaii, 10 times a day.
In Direct marketing of anything to include Religion ( That is what a Missionary and TV Ad for a Book Of Mormon does by the way), we are interested mostly in those that know and are interested and are closest to our desired idea of what is "Golden" then we are in those that are Not. Every one matters but some matter more. Even among the lost we seek the found.
Jesus said it would be "Worth It" for me it has been.
One of the problems is that Mormons sometimes think that they are not only Separate but far, far more then equal. Even among themselves. Singles being the Prime Example. We have a Word and a Class and a Box and an expectation for everyone.
However everyone does Not fit in a Box and All does Not Apply, to everything regardless of the Demographic.
Demographics work wonderful and are the Salvation of Direct Marketing. Give me the right Demographic and I can sell stock in the Bridge between San Francisco and Hilo Hawaii, 10 times a day.
In Direct marketing of anything to include Religion ( That is what a Missionary and TV Ad for a Book Of Mormon does by the way), we are interested mostly in those that know and are interested and are closest to our desired idea of what is "Golden" then we are in those that are Not. Every one matters but some matter more. Even among the lost we seek the found.
Jesus said it would be "Worth It" for me it has been.
Sooner Cougar | 4:47 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
We�re communicating our message just fine. The problem is
the general public doesn�t like it. Always been this way,
always will.
Carl | 5:43 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
Noah, Moses, Jeremiah, Amos, Jesus Christ all suffered in the polls. The truth
has always been a lightning rod and people usually have a hard time with it
because it cutteth to the very center. We all know who the world will line up
against. It has been this way since the beginning and nobody expects it to
change much in the future.
Popular? | 5:53 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
This church is premised on a direct quote from Jesus Christ himself who told
Joseph Smith that all other American churches were "an abomination" to
him. That quote gets glossed over these days. You cannot stick to the true
Mormon narrative without antagonizing other Christians. It is hard, indeed, to
have it both ways--to be honest and be popular.
Frank Day | 6:25 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
Entering the political ring, which we thought was
against church teachings, is certainly not going to
replace loving and caring for others. To be loved
we must love others and remember a war was fought
in heaven for free agency. Political force is not
part of Mormonism. I suggest we need to get back
to being Mormons.
against church teachings, is certainly not going to
replace loving and caring for others. To be loved
we must love others and remember a war was fought
in heaven for free agency. Political force is not
part of Mormonism. I suggest we need to get back
to being Mormons.
Internet! | 6:25 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
All I'm going to say is I wish there wasn't so much misleading stuff
on the internet! Maybe the church or members could buy most of the domain
names, so when someone interested in the church types mormon themes into the
search engine. They can study something true for once!
Judge not | 6:46 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
The LDS church is obsessed with judging other people's lives in a way that
Jesus was not. Their Prop 8 campaign is Exhibit A.
Alternative view | 7:01 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
The point is not that someone said Mormons would or should be liked, but that we
collectively crave legitimation in mainstream culture and think we are more
accepted than we are. As someone who has lived outside of Utah for 15 years
now, I can attest that it's not our claim to religious authority that
alienates, so much as a polygamous past, provincial ideas, insularity, and
missionary zeal.
Many decent, reasonable, and tolerant people, view us the way we view quakers and puritans, that is to say, quaint, naive, and somewhat intolerant of non-believers.
Many decent, reasonable, and tolerant people, view us the way we view quakers and puritans, that is to say, quaint, naive, and somewhat intolerant of non-believers.
Check your facts... | 7:12 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
Please reference where Mitt Romney lost by a land slide? Where is the reference
that The Church is loosing membership?
That isn't to say that we could be a better neighbor, a better friend, and more Christ-like, who 'grew in favor with God and man'.
That isn't to say that we could be a better neighbor, a better friend, and more Christ-like, who 'grew in favor with God and man'.
Anonymous | 7:16 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
Much like the "hate Bush" campaign that has run in this country for
the past 8 years, it's difficult to overcome decades of "hate
Mormons" campaigns run by many so called Christian churches, who fail to
have anything very attractive about their church, so they hate the Mormons.
I do not believe for one minute that the Mormons are very much responsible for this false image that's out there. Still, we do have work to do.
And on another note, the church could immediately improve its image by denouncing Joseph Smith, abandoning the Book of Mormon, supporting same sex marriage, dropping the Word of Wisdom, and moving over to "mainstream" Christianity's view of "the trinity."
So obtaining a more favorable view from others is easy; problem is, that "view" is not important enough for me to abandon all my values and beliefs.
I do not believe for one minute that the Mormons are very much responsible for this false image that's out there. Still, we do have work to do.
And on another note, the church could immediately improve its image by denouncing Joseph Smith, abandoning the Book of Mormon, supporting same sex marriage, dropping the Word of Wisdom, and moving over to "mainstream" Christianity's view of "the trinity."
So obtaining a more favorable view from others is easy; problem is, that "view" is not important enough for me to abandon all my values and beliefs.
jann | 7:22 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
so true cali
Clint Robertson | 7:53 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
The LDS Church is tanking faster than the stock market. I am glad I divested
myself from both of them when I did. Sad time ahead and I wonder if the church
can survive in this modern day.
Jan | 7:56 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
I've been alive for 63 years. The only people that think the church is
popular have their heads in the ground. I love it forever but I have had
persecution about it all of my life. No one likes it because they choose not to
like it. They do not choose to learn about the goodness of it all. They make
rash judgements that are 'popular' where before they make such
judgements, they should really find out where the church is coming from. I will
never leave it. I know what I have.
Frank | 7:57 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
I don't think the LDS church has an image problem. I think they have a
behavior problem. I don't care what a person believes; I care what he or
she does. I don't object to the Church's beliefs about gay marriage,
but I do object strongly to the actions it took in promoting Proposition 8. The
Church's leaders are right that gay marriage is a moral issue.
Unfortunately, the Church has promoted the immoral side of the issue.
wgr | 7:59 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
Intuitively I feel the guy is right. Yes, we need to do a better job of sharing
the gospel message, but I don't think it will change the numbers
significantly. If there was a large percentage of people who
"understood" our message, there would be a lot more members and even
the members would be more active. But, there are people like "judge
not" that will hear and think what is convenient for them regardless.
Marky | 8:10 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
I just don't get it. Christ taught that true believers would be persecuted
for his name's sake. All of the scriptures and prophecies teach that in
the last days, the wicked will revile against the followers of God and be
persecuted and even killed for their belief in God.
And now, someone expects to find Mormons winning a popularity contest?
Please. Just live the Gospel, follow the teachings of Christ, and let the caravan move on.
And now, someone expects to find Mormons winning a popularity contest?
Please. Just live the Gospel, follow the teachings of Christ, and let the caravan move on.
Aaron in Park City | 8:12 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
I MUST stop reading the article comments here at the Deseret News. It makes it
hard to be sympathetic, empathetic, or even tolerant of ya'll (Mormons),
when your comments are so closed minded and self-righteous. You can only take
that "one true religion" mind-set so far before you alienate everyone
around you. This is just one dude's opinion (mine). You won't hear
from me again on this forum. Good luck with your path.
New to Utah | 8:13 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
"Alternative View" hit the nail on the head. Much as I like my LDS
neighbors, they seem completely unaware of the subtle and not so subtle ways
their attitudes and beliefs affect those not of their faith.
Paul | 8:19 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
The Church doesn't have an image problem, just not enough people know about
the Church, but slowly and surely the gospel will sound in every ear, it will
bring people to a renewed faith in Christ, a renewed trust in mankind and great
happiness.
keepin-it-real | 8:22 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
...and few there be that find it.
Mission Field Memo | 8:22 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
The effectiveness of our "outreach" would, IMHO, improve fastest if
every Latter Day Saint "set a date" simply to acquire or improve a
friendship, with absolutely NO effort to evangelize. In the natural friendships
we all have, the interactions lead, eventually, to sharing the deeply-held
beliefs of both parties. And when we understand someone else's deeply-held
beliefs, then we can share our "additional truth."
I have found that, as educated and broad-minded as I think I am, I still walk around with caricatures of others' beliefs in my head, and it is too easy to be smugly satisfied with my own life, and it is more difficult to "smite my breast and say in my heart, 'Forgive me, Lord, for I am a sinner." No one wants to listen to someone who considers himself superior - that's why Al Gore is the wrong front guy for environmentalism, but I digress...
When Paul visited Athens, he ambled around town a bit to get a feel for the place. His communications with the men of Athens was effective because he took the time to understand their religious icons, including the statue to "the Unknown God." Understanding others precedes being understood.
I have found that, as educated and broad-minded as I think I am, I still walk around with caricatures of others' beliefs in my head, and it is too easy to be smugly satisfied with my own life, and it is more difficult to "smite my breast and say in my heart, 'Forgive me, Lord, for I am a sinner." No one wants to listen to someone who considers himself superior - that's why Al Gore is the wrong front guy for environmentalism, but I digress...
When Paul visited Athens, he ambled around town a bit to get a feel for the place. His communications with the men of Athens was effective because he took the time to understand their religious icons, including the statue to "the Unknown God." Understanding others precedes being understood.
WinSum | 8:33 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
Some seem to think The Church is trying to run a popularity contest??? Since
when did the Wisdom-of Men amount to anything???
Popularity contest | 8:34 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
The Church is not involved in a popularity contest.
We have a very straight-forward message, That being: the gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored to the earth. It wasn't popular during Christs ministry and has stayed about the same.
The Lord is looking for sincere people who have the courage to ask him in prayer, with the promise that he will answer. Can't get more real than that.
We have a very straight-forward message, That being: the gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored to the earth. It wasn't popular during Christs ministry and has stayed about the same.
The Lord is looking for sincere people who have the courage to ask him in prayer, with the promise that he will answer. Can't get more real than that.
Elizabeth | 8:35 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
To Anonymous. The verses in Revelation 22: 18-19 refer not to the whole bible
but to the prophecy contained within the Book of Revelation. As such the Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have not broken away from the Bible as you
claim.
I am not a member of the Mormon faith but I would ask you not to judge them unjustifiably.
I am not a member of the Mormon faith but I would ask you not to judge them unjustifiably.
to Internet! | 8:35 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
The problem isn't that there are lies online, but that members don't
know the history of the church so they aren't prepared to deal with it. For
example, lots of members don't realize that Joseph Smith practiced
polygamy, yet he did (you can even see it on the church's website). The LDS
church needs to deal responsibly with the information that is out there so that
members and potential members know why the "less desirable" things are
out there.
Before the PBS documentary, most members of the church didn't know about the Mountain Meadows Masacre. After the PBS documentary the LDS church acknowledged it and explained why it happened. Most mormons I know were upset when they saw the PBS documentary because they thought it was lies. The reality is that it was the truth, only the church didn't talk about a lot of the stuff on there, so members didn't know how much of it was true.
Before the PBS documentary, most members of the church didn't know about the Mountain Meadows Masacre. After the PBS documentary the LDS church acknowledged it and explained why it happened. Most mormons I know were upset when they saw the PBS documentary because they thought it was lies. The reality is that it was the truth, only the church didn't talk about a lot of the stuff on there, so members didn't know how much of it was true.
Me | 8:35 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
To Anonymous at 4:09 am. The reference to the scripture in Revelation is oft
quoted to the LDS. It should be remembered that the book of Revelation was not
the last book of the Bible to be written. It is just placed last in the New
Testament. Look at Deuteronomy 4:2 where it says basically the same thing.
Should we then discard all books of the Bible that come after Deuteronomy?
Get your facts straight before you condem.
Get your facts straight before you condem.
Cougar Blue | 8:36 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
As everyone can see, this attitude is one of the big problems.
The Mission field | 8:37 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
We live in an area were there are very few members of the Church, only two
others attend a large high school with my daughter. She has been very
frustrated in the councel given in Young Women's, from the manual that
encourages youth to seek out friends who have the same standards, and only date
within the Church.
That would leave her with no options. Living in the mission field we are very aware of our poor image, and encouraging our youth to keep to themselves is not realistic, but instead, we encourage our daughter to be a representative of our beliefs while making friends. Of course, I understand the reasons for the needs for young people to have LDS friends, but that can also lead to people thinking that we feel that we are "too good" to associate with them, which can be damaging to our image as a people, and make missonary work more difficult.
That would leave her with no options. Living in the mission field we are very aware of our poor image, and encouraging our youth to keep to themselves is not realistic, but instead, we encourage our daughter to be a representative of our beliefs while making friends. Of course, I understand the reasons for the needs for young people to have LDS friends, but that can also lead to people thinking that we feel that we are "too good" to associate with them, which can be damaging to our image as a people, and make missonary work more difficult.
Mainstream | 8:41 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
many of the 49% whose view of us is unfavorable are totally mis-lead and
misinformed. BTW, there still are many who just don't get it on the prop 8
issue. We are never going to condone sin and the attempts by the GLBT crowd to
legitimize sodomy and to gain control of our children. Won't happen so
don't worry cause we are not concerned about our P.R. image vis-a-vis
serious transgression such as sodomy. We are not overly worried about becoming
"mainstream" if by doing so we must take a weak-kneed position on our
moral standards. In fact the opposite is true. "Go thy way and sin no
more" is still a valid quote for all to follow. Truth be told we are
gaining serious recognition from right-thinking Americans for our strong stance
in the fight against sodomy and any immorality for that matter.
Randy Churchill | 8:42 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
We should always as a people be striving to help to teach what we believe to our
brothers and sisters. That said, Mr. Benson is trying to be very clever to tell
us we are not popular with everyone. The premise is off base. I'm more
interested in what the tend would have been from say before President Hinckley
started his time as President of the Church in 1995 to today in 2008. My guess
is that the numbers are up a good bit from just 15-20 years ago.
The answers in some of the other comments show what some people are like and have been since the time of Joseph Smith. Their comments about members of the Church come from many different experiences: a slight here, a rejection there. So be it. After the irony of watching people display raw bigotry the last couple weeks (and in 2008 with Mitt Romney) in their hatred for members, I will not engage in hate speech. Nor will I try to self-examine. Rather, I will continue to follow God's Plan for all of us as I believe and try to be the best neighbor and community member possible.
The answers in some of the other comments show what some people are like and have been since the time of Joseph Smith. Their comments about members of the Church come from many different experiences: a slight here, a rejection there. So be it. After the irony of watching people display raw bigotry the last couple weeks (and in 2008 with Mitt Romney) in their hatred for members, I will not engage in hate speech. Nor will I try to self-examine. Rather, I will continue to follow God's Plan for all of us as I believe and try to be the best neighbor and community member possible.
Bart | 8:44 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
I work with about 80 other people, and I have never heard so many comments such
as "what is the church thinking", or what is BYU doing?", as I
have recently.
This is in a neighboring western state and things that have made the news which prompts these comments are: 1-The refusal to give a diploma after it was legitimately earned to the young man who made the shirtless calendars 2-The refusal to even consider Jim McMahan as a member of the BYU elect group in athletics and probably the most ire is 3-The huge amounts of money the church had its members funnel into the Prop 8 Amendment. Most people consider all of these acts as evidence of a real problem with arrogance in the church and our members.
I'm sure you don't want to hear it, but that's what's out there.
This is in a neighboring western state and things that have made the news which prompts these comments are: 1-The refusal to give a diploma after it was legitimately earned to the young man who made the shirtless calendars 2-The refusal to even consider Jim McMahan as a member of the BYU elect group in athletics and probably the most ire is 3-The huge amounts of money the church had its members funnel into the Prop 8 Amendment. Most people consider all of these acts as evidence of a real problem with arrogance in the church and our members.
I'm sure you don't want to hear it, but that's what's out there.
Japan member | 8:49 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
Thanks to Cali #2.
On my mission I used to think that members were not doing enough for missionary work. Since then, I have come to realize how that happens. It is easy to sit back and wait for missionary opportunities to come to you, but far harder to seek them out and to initiate religious conversation.
There are many people who want to know more about what we believe, and many who expect us to invite them to learn more.
We should not be afraid to discuss religion and should seek for opportunities to do so. My experience is that far fewer people will attack us when we do so than we might think.
On my mission I used to think that members were not doing enough for missionary work. Since then, I have come to realize how that happens. It is easy to sit back and wait for missionary opportunities to come to you, but far harder to seek them out and to initiate religious conversation.
There are many people who want to know more about what we believe, and many who expect us to invite them to learn more.
We should not be afraid to discuss religion and should seek for opportunities to do so. My experience is that far fewer people will attack us when we do so than we might think.
Californian #3 | 8:53 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
These comments are so typical of Mormons. You are God's annointed in your
own minds--particularly those in Utah and Idaho. The rest of us just think you
are self-righteous and weird.
PrimoSD | 8:56 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
The gospel the church teaches may or may not be accepted by our friends and
neighbors. That said, it's our responsiblity to make sure that they
understand what we believe; to make an informed judgement. The problem thus
far, is that misinformation and lack of information has been hiding the truth
about what we're trying to communicate.
Let's clearly communicate with people. If they then choose to like or not like us, then so be it.
Let's clearly communicate with people. If they then choose to like or not like us, then so be it.
Compliment? Or not | 9:01 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
If the majority of Americans have eroding values, or decry organized religion,
or scoff at the idea of a God who loves us enough to continue to provide
revelation, then maybe it is a compliment that we have an image problem...
OTOH, insofar as our image problem is the fruit of our unChristianlike behaviors or attitudes, then it is the worst possible scenario.
OTOH, insofar as our image problem is the fruit of our unChristianlike behaviors or attitudes, then it is the worst possible scenario.
Californian #4 | 9:07 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
One place Mormons should begin with would be to try being a lot less smug and
self righteous martyrs. They should also quit blaming everyone that
doesn't agree with them (eg. the comment about the "Bush
haters").(Whe fact that Bush is more disliked by more Americans than even
Nixon, yet seems to be still revered in Utah says something about you)
The Gun Show | 9:09 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
I'll bet that the majority of people going to the gun show (reported today
in the DN) are LDS. And we wonder why the rest of the nation, that is the sane
and normal nation, sees us as a bunch of nuts. The image we project may, in
fact, be correct.
Revelations | 9:10 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
Hey, anonymous! The book of Revelations was written long before the Bible was
put together as a book. So, by your logic, all the other books should not have
been added. The part about nothing being added to the book only refers to the
Book of Revelations, not to scripture in general. Get a few history lessons
before you blog.
Old Friend | 9:12 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
Dear Clint,
I'm sorry you decided to leave. Many of us miss you and morn your departure. We love you still and will always call you a friend. Please know that we would welcome you with open arms if you should choose to return.
I'm sorry you decided to leave. Many of us miss you and morn your departure. We love you still and will always call you a friend. Please know that we would welcome you with open arms if you should choose to return.
Jeff | 9:22 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
I applaud anyone's effort to communicate their beliefs to others to
eliminate misunderstandings, but please understand that religious people will
listen to their religious leaders to define other religions. Evangelicals will
continue to define Mormons as they see fit as long as their leaders continue to
say the same things about them.
It reminds me of the way in which LDS leaders used to preach anti-Catholic views. Most Mormons ignored the voice of Catholics when defining Catholicism in favor of their leaders' voices. Catholics, of course, have the same problem. Authoritarian religion is the problem.
It reminds me of the way in which LDS leaders used to preach anti-Catholic views. Most Mormons ignored the voice of Catholics when defining Catholicism in favor of their leaders' voices. Catholics, of course, have the same problem. Authoritarian religion is the problem.
Mark | 9:30 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
What would you have us do? compromise our descipleship to please the rest of the
world? That was tried after Christ was here in the merridian of time. The church
at that time changed to a political entity to please ceatain peolle and
leaders.
We ARE a seperate and destinct people who live the gospel as Christ ordered. Lets not be defined by public opinions. All is well in Zion, and the Church is on course, as the Lord so stated.
Listen to the rumblings of the world, and descern the signs of the times.
We will de defined by who we follow.
We ARE a seperate and destinct people who live the gospel as Christ ordered. Lets not be defined by public opinions. All is well in Zion, and the Church is on course, as the Lord so stated.
Listen to the rumblings of the world, and descern the signs of the times.
We will de defined by who we follow.
Arizona | 9:32 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
To Anonymous:
Mormons break away from the bible which is against what it says in the Book of Revelation that "You must not add to or take away from this book".
First of all, when John wrote this book there was no 'Bible' as we know it today. Not even the New Testament canon had been established, and the Gospels were not yet combined into a single volume. Even though Revelations is placed last in the Bible, it was not the last book written. Many prophets added their revelations *after* John made his statement. Interestingly, the Jews at the time of Christ claimed to revere dead prophets, but rejected living ones. Sound familiar? Finally, John 21:25 states "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." Clearly, John recognized that there were many books that might or could be written to describe all of Christ's words and deeds. Could all of Christ's life truly be limited to a Bible?? I don't think so.
Mormons break away from the bible which is against what it says in the Book of Revelation that "You must not add to or take away from this book".
First of all, when John wrote this book there was no 'Bible' as we know it today. Not even the New Testament canon had been established, and the Gospels were not yet combined into a single volume. Even though Revelations is placed last in the Bible, it was not the last book written. Many prophets added their revelations *after* John made his statement. Interestingly, the Jews at the time of Christ claimed to revere dead prophets, but rejected living ones. Sound familiar? Finally, John 21:25 states "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." Clearly, John recognized that there were many books that might or could be written to describe all of Christ's words and deeds. Could all of Christ's life truly be limited to a Bible?? I don't think so.
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