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Settlement talks begin over FLDS trust
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nosugrof | 4:45 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
Since the Utah Attorney General, Bruce Wisan and the ex-FLDS members are on the
same side, Im sure they will agree on something.
Joey | 5:49 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
How about before splitting the board 50/50 FLDS/non-FLDS (weird cuz FLDS make up
more than 80% of the current members, and 100% according to the real 1989 Trust
document), the state settle the matter of whether the allegations of
mismanagement are founded. That way, they don't have to keep calling them
allegations (as if rulings can be made on allegations alone).
This isn't a negotiation | 6:57 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
This isn't a negotiation, it's a strategy session between members of
the anti-FLDS group. And the hearing wasn't canceled because of any
imaginary negotiations, it was the motion filed last Wednesday to disqualify the
judge, the fiduciary, and his lawyers. The motion makes some very serious
allegations, so it's no wonder that the AG and his buddies need to
strategize.
Comments continue below
Wisan favors ex-FLDS members | 7:46 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
I agree - why is the trustee just meeting with the AG's office and ex-FLDS
members. That shows bias against the FLDS members.
If I was a FLDS, there is no way I would agree to run the trust with ex-FLDS members. That would just drag the battle on.
Here is the solution, pay the ex-members the value of their work and property and give the rest back to the FLDS.
If I was a FLDS, there is no way I would agree to run the trust with ex-FLDS members. That would just drag the battle on.
Here is the solution, pay the ex-members the value of their work and property and give the rest back to the FLDS.
zxcvbnm | 8:17 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
The trust belongs to the FLDS. Turn the whole thing over to the church and let the new FLDS board have control.
Ex-members getting anything or having any say is about as logical as giving ex-Catholics their money back and inviting them to run the Vatican.
If there are outstanding FLDS debts the FLDS members can settle the mess.......give the MEMBERS control of their property back.
ddresearcher | 10:04 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
The Trust does NOT belong to the FLDS church, nor should it. Please go back and
review the history of the trust. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of trust
beneficiaries who either have never been a member of the FLDS church or who have
been kicked out of the church. But these member gave considerable time and
financial resources to create the assets currently held by the Trust. In any
"global settlement," these non-FLDS trust participants must have a
voice.
Remember that the FLDS church is a recent organization (sometime in the early 90's). While current FLDS members claim that their church goes back to the days of 1942, when the Trust was created, that position is simply not true. The FLDS church evolved from one of the many factions that spun off from the earlier fundamentalist movement. They are the largest single group, and they are certainly the most visible. But they are not the only one.
The 2005 restatement defines the beneficiary class broadly, as well it should. There is no justice in giving the FLDS church all of the trust assets and the ability to, willy nilly, throw members out of their homes.
Remember that the FLDS church is a recent organization (sometime in the early 90's). While current FLDS members claim that their church goes back to the days of 1942, when the Trust was created, that position is simply not true. The FLDS church evolved from one of the many factions that spun off from the earlier fundamentalist movement. They are the largest single group, and they are certainly the most visible. But they are not the only one.
The 2005 restatement defines the beneficiary class broadly, as well it should. There is no justice in giving the FLDS church all of the trust assets and the ability to, willy nilly, throw members out of their homes.
Anonymous | 10:36 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
The FLDS is a church - not an impartial government pledged to "equal
opportunity for all". As a member in good standing you have claim to the
benefits of the trutst. If you are not in good standing you're out.
Everyone who has been sent away was sent away to become a better person - and
come back when they did.
Church membership is based on adherance to church principles - it is not guaranteed just because you are born to it - like citizenship for instance. The UEP was set up to care for FAITHFUL FLDS members. That is the legal wording; and the judge, fiduciary and attorney generals office changed it, without ANY input from ANY faithful FLDS member - constitutionally violating their religious rights.
Church membership is based on adherance to church principles - it is not guaranteed just because you are born to it - like citizenship for instance. The UEP was set up to care for FAITHFUL FLDS members. That is the legal wording; and the judge, fiduciary and attorney generals office changed it, without ANY input from ANY faithful FLDS member - constitutionally violating their religious rights.
Looting the trust | 5:57 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008
"The UEP was set up to care for FAITHFUL FLDS members."
-------------------
This is exactly right. But the state has taken the opposite position, that FLDS apostates have more rights than present members. And the actions of Wisan suggest that the real interest of the state is not the beneficiaries, either past or present, but is to loot and dissipate the trust until there is nothing left. Look what he has done already with the approval of the judge, selling off land to pay his and his attorney�s inflated salaries, then buying up that land himself, thus doubly enriching himself. Would this be allowed if the trust were Catholic or mainstream Mormon?
-------------------
This is exactly right. But the state has taken the opposite position, that FLDS apostates have more rights than present members. And the actions of Wisan suggest that the real interest of the state is not the beneficiaries, either past or present, but is to loot and dissipate the trust until there is nothing left. Look what he has done already with the approval of the judge, selling off land to pay his and his attorney�s inflated salaries, then buying up that land himself, thus doubly enriching himself. Would this be allowed if the trust were Catholic or mainstream Mormon?
FLDS fumbled | 7:20 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008
Allowing Warren to grab the Keys, allowing him to kick out members by the dozen,
destroying families, then abandoning the assets of the trust by ignoring
lawsuits - he fumbled the UEP and the state had to pick it up.
So dont blame the state for Warrens multiple failings. The FLDS trusted him and found that was a big mistake.
So now the state has to reboot it and make it right for all who contribute, and protect current members from future insane acts by a future insane prophet.
So dont blame the state for Warrens multiple failings. The FLDS trusted him and found that was a big mistake.
So now the state has to reboot it and make it right for all who contribute, and protect current members from future insane acts by a future insane prophet.
right on | 8:21 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008
so we have a wolves conference on how they are going to "split the
dinner" and they'll let the sheep in later on "what's for
dinner"!!
x | 8:50 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008
Will selling that part of the farm on the FLDS land or trust land pay for all of
the lawyers bills and everyone elses bills, claims, or law suits against warren
jeffs or the FLDS? Most likley not!So, why sell farm land that provides food for
the FLDS members?
This mess sounds like a three way circus.People who had no control over the trust, just want to live their lives in piece, while there are money grubbers who want anything done to get money for any cause.
This article is right, no one will get what they watn. Simple solution, let flds keep their land through the trust, with someone who cares running the trust. What ever debt there is, have the government pay it off, since the US goverment is paying off everyone elses debts. After the debts are paid, the government needs to put the trust under some sort of protection, so that it can't go broke or have millions of people wanting money because their lives were ruined. I have seen this before, people battling over land and money in courts. Tons of legal fees are ran up, then don't get paid because there is no solution.
This mess sounds like a three way circus.People who had no control over the trust, just want to live their lives in piece, while there are money grubbers who want anything done to get money for any cause.
This article is right, no one will get what they watn. Simple solution, let flds keep their land through the trust, with someone who cares running the trust. What ever debt there is, have the government pay it off, since the US goverment is paying off everyone elses debts. After the debts are paid, the government needs to put the trust under some sort of protection, so that it can't go broke or have millions of people wanting money because their lives were ruined. I have seen this before, people battling over land and money in courts. Tons of legal fees are ran up, then don't get paid because there is no solution.
re: x | 9:38 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008
The land was not providing food for FLDS members. If you've seen the aerial
images, it has been left to the weeds for some time now. A few leaders let their
livestock graze there but that's about it.
"What ever debt there is, have the government pay it off...After the debts are paid, the government needs to put the trust under some sort of protection, so that it can't go broke."
And then the financial fairy godmother will wave her magic wand and free property and money will rain down from heaven but only land in the hands of FLDS members currently in good standing with the prophet.
"What ever debt there is, have the government pay it off...After the debts are paid, the government needs to put the trust under some sort of protection, so that it can't go broke."
And then the financial fairy godmother will wave her magic wand and free property and money will rain down from heaven but only land in the hands of FLDS members currently in good standing with the prophet.
realitycheck | 12:49 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008
yes - the UEP was set up for the faithful FLDS. And then along came the Jeffs.
Both Warren and his father just tossed out anyone that disagreed with them,
faithful or not. So if by "faithful" you mean willing to hand over
their 12 yr old daughter to old men for marriage, then yes - only the faithful
remain.
so it's ok with you that parents willing to pimp out their little girls should get some of the trust, but parents that pushed back and wouldn't do things that are blatantly wrong should lose everything they worked for? Great idea.... lol
I say give it all to the ex-members that were smart enough to get out, and nothing to the current members. Anyone stupid enough to obey Warren Jeffs (and think he's some sort of prophet, as if being a prophet was a hand-me-down job) deserves nothing.
so it's ok with you that parents willing to pimp out their little girls should get some of the trust, but parents that pushed back and wouldn't do things that are blatantly wrong should lose everything they worked for? Great idea.... lol
I say give it all to the ex-members that were smart enough to get out, and nothing to the current members. Anyone stupid enough to obey Warren Jeffs (and think he's some sort of prophet, as if being a prophet was a hand-me-down job) deserves nothing.
Sadie | 3:00 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008
realitycheck, I think that is a great idea! Give the entire trust to
ex-members and nothing to the current members. The ex-members probably worked
harder and built the community up more than the current members anyway.
The Truth | 4:46 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008
If Jeffs was a real prophet he would have seen this coming. His ego is larger
than his brain. Like most of the male FLDS it is not about sex it is about
power. Being male does not make a person smart. I can not believe that any woman
would put up with the subjugation. If the FLDS really believe in what they
profess they should move to some third world country where there life style is
legal.
Sadie | 5:05 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008
Hey Truth, maybe Jeffs did see this coming, made sure he did something to get
himself sent to prison for the rest of his life so he would be safe from his own
followers. Who about now should be ready to kill him with their bare hands.
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