Reader comments
Ogden police investigate fire at LDS Institute

birdman | 9:17 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

It's easy enough to automatically blame the "no to Pro8" crowd for this incident, but let's stay calm, let the police do their work and those responsible will be identified.

Colleen | 9:31 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

The cowardly do cowardly acts. It is too bad that we have to give them any attention.

Sccary | 9:44 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

This is really scary!
To me - it seems more like the people were leaving a message then that they had a change of heart. The message was that they had somehow gotten in and were able to lite the fire and could have done the damaage. To me the message is a warning that they know how to do it and will eventually if we do not change our stand.
They are using our young adults as their targets..

Comments continue below

Legislators need | 9:48 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

pass a law that provide the death penalty for terrorist attacks on religeous institutions.

SpenceOC | 9:48 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

It's difficult to say who would do this in Ogden. Especially since Ogden has been a haven for the anti-LDS and inactive-hateful LDS for as long as I can remember.

Sadly, in Ogden, it could have been just about anyone.

kenny | 9:52 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

Birdman: I think you are fueling the fire. To say stay calm is to say there is panic in the streets of Ogden.I wonder how many incidents like this happened at LDS buildings prior to all the Pro 8 stuff.

Anonymous | 9:58 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

these could be hate crimes

The Old South | 10:06 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

I thought this kind of stuff ended with the old south. It's unfortunate some resort to this to get their viewpoint across.

birdman | 10:21 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

Sccary: Your message of warning is plausible, it being a simple act to enter the building during the fireside broadcast of Pres. Packer, hide out somewhere and then perpetuate your warning act after everyone else is gone. That would be quite a determined design. It could also be just an act of foolishness by someone who quickly tried to reduce damages and evidence by kicking the debris outside.

kenny: My request to remain calm was addressed to anyone who might jump to a "no to Pro8" conclusion. The article itself referenced the possibility of this. No one is suggesting panic in Ogden's streets. But within the "for Pro8" circles, there is much anxiety about where all these recent incidents targeted at religious facilities is coming from.

Tina | 10:23 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

Death sentence? Extreme much?

That being said, I'm anti-Prop 8. Anti-Mormon even I've been (incorrectly) categorized. But no one I know would ever do stupid things like what has been happening to the LDS church lately. Immature, hate-filled crimes. I truly hope people don't think this is how all of us are.

No So | 10:35 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

There is no such thing as a "hate crime". It is impossible to read the offender's mind. A crime is a crime.

Phoebe | 10:46 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

Some idiot burned a plastic floral arrangement and caused $300 worth of damage, and now the "major crimes unit" is investigating? I think the police need to get a grip here.

Dan | 11:00 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

Once again, this is no big deal, is it. Damage to the building was "only" $300. And there is absolutely, "no evidence" that this is a hate crime, or that it has anything to do with Proposition 8. Threats were made against the Church on this very day, but "nothing came of it," according to police.

One of the police officers involved in this made reference to "common sense." I wish more of that could be found in this and similar investigations.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Robo | 11:22 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

What if it was set off in your home and only did $300 damage. Would it be no big deal then?

Investigate it | 11:26 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

The damage is only $300 because someone moved the burning mes outside...

had it been left inside then the damage may have been much more severe.

An analogy might be if someone shoots at you and misses. No big deal. No one was hurt, why investigate.

To: Phoebe and Dan | 11:32 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

If somebody threw a brick through your window or vandalized your home to the tune of $300 or more, would it be a big deal then? I think things would be different if it happened to your house.

WOW | 11:43 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

Same mindset, huh?

Is a mindset the same reason that Utah is #1 for many types of Fraud in the nation?

Don't categorize attraction for someone with criminality. Experience...right.

Ronni Bray | 11:52 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

Phoebe: If the perpetrator did the same thing in your home, would you take it as insouciantly as you appear to think others should?

DAN: I ask you the same quesion. Would it be 'no big deal' if this happened to your home?

now this is wrong | 12:16 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008

doesn't matter just leave something that is dedicated to god alone...geez i use to like to take in the fresh air and scenery around these places , now i don't bother as some are trying to make it a mockery of the sacred and i hope they find out who is responsible just to see who the dummies are.

get a grip, commentors | 12:28 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008

Apparently the days of people only expressing hatred verbally are over. Now they are actually acting on their hatred. We knew this day would come. So do the best we can, stop saying stupid things like everyone else, and move forward.

Idaokie | 12:37 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008

Post 9/11 I lived in a big city suburb and the people a few doors down were muslim. Someone drove by there house and shot a hole in the large window over their front door. The neighbor, needless to say, was very upset. Appalling to me were some of the other neighbors who said, "Oh it's just a hole in the glass, it won't be much to replace" or "I don't know why you are so paranoid, it was probably just a prank". The act itself may not have turned tragic, although it could have, but we must look at the motive behind the act.
I, personally, don't think that the situation in Ogden was perpetrated by anyone opposed to prop 8. There are lots of crazy people out there who are using this environment to act out their aggression towards a people or culture they hate or don't understand or agree with, for whatever reason.
Hang tight people, calm down, and be careful and hopefully this will all pass quickly.

Big Mom | 12:39 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008

Lighting a fire in an occupied building is a felony. Hence the investigation by the Major Crimes Bureau.

When was the last time | 12:42 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008

When was the last time that an "incident" like this one was done to an LDS institute building? Usually vandals more destructive things like write on walls, break and destroy a lots of things, ..this was a singular act of setting a fire to a flower arrangement then trying to put it out..maybe by a couple of juvenile people or maybe against prop 8. Hard to tell except it's on the heels of a major series of events. The probability of it being connected then increases. However people don't even have to been connected to the issue of prop 8 but they can act because they hate/dislike LDS for a number of reasons. When hatred and violence are acted out through mobs/demonstrations then others quickly jump on the bandwagon for all sorts of personal reasons. Until now we have had a lot of people just being anti now they are given purpose by proxy and feel at liberty to engage in violent acts under the cover of an "issue" to come against the LDS.

Anonymous | 12:57 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008

There are better ways of getting out of seminary kids

wayne | 1:10 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008

When the FBI finds those that are committing these hate crimes (and odds are they will) they will find their lives ruined forever. When background checks are done, they will never be able to get a decent job.

My son-in-law is a detective. If these vandals only knew the resourses of the police and especially the FBI, they would never do these things.

To Anon | 1:33 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008

First off, it was Institute, not religion. Second, it was on a Sunday, there were no classes. Only a few kids and staff cleaning up after President Packer's fireside. Stop overreacting folks, I'm certain this had nothing to do with anything. If anything it was a copycat by an immature individual. Those who want to see a conspiracy will always find one.

Tim | 1:42 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008

No matter what your personal beliefs may be and no matter how much you may disagree with a another religious point of view.

Vandalism only lessens the value of your cause.

Why even make suspicions? | 4:30 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008

This is neither here nor there. Hope the next article I read about has some investigation details. The article just opens up a lot of guess work without much for a reader like me to go on. So I will refrain from going on and on about nothing like some of you seem to be doing.

Steviejee | 6:38 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008

I think that people over react to acts like this because as one person stated, "What's behind all of this?", "Why all the hate and where will it get anybody?" As Gandhi stated,"... an eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." Our world is fast becoming very blind, and so instead of attacking we need to see how we can help one another truly see! And that can only happen when we begin to listen to one another instead of yelling at or attacking one another.

hey steviejee | 7:20 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008

it's too late to appoligize as hate begats hate..it is all a circle that is connected.

Wassup | 11:53 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008

Vandalism on almost a daily basis AFTER prop 8 passed. No. No connection there officer! Just coincidences around the country targeting LDS property.

Can you imagine if it were synogogues, black churches, etc? Is there anyone bold enough to say that those occurances would be treated as non-hate crimes?

Re: SpenceOC | 9:48 a.m. Nov. 19 | 9:27 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008

I'd bet you've never been in Ogden in your life. You are a bigot. Ogden is a great place, and I love living there.

What an idiotic statement.

Fred Vader | 12:56 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

This is nothing more that someone taking the term "fireside" too literally.

Inspector Gadget | 7:37 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

Wowsers! The cops can't solve this one. Looks like a job for Inspector Gadget. Go,go,gadget..............
Well you get the idea. Who is going to catch these punks doing this? We know one thing. These are hate crimes. I am proud of California for voting for prop 8 and don't you dare blame the Mormons. It was mostly honorable people who did this. 80% of African-American people voted for prop 8. I am surprised they are not a target also. Other religions have been targeted also and victimised in other states.
The KKGay must be stopped!

Re: Inspector Gadget | 9:29 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

KKGay? I absolutely do not support gay marriage, but very few gays would do something this foolish and rude. Any sane person would realize that this will not help them to get what they want.

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