Reader comments
Dick Harmon: Utah fans fuel the fire behind heated rivalry
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AzByuFan | 12:36 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
There is no doubt more animosity coming from the Ute side. In other rivalries
are based more on Geography. In the Holy War emotions are expressed outside of
football. It divides among religious lines and amongst the LDS community. The
most hostile Utes are the ant-LDS and LDS who were not accepted into BYU. And
yes, from the early 70s to the mid 80s it was lopsided. The few wins by the Utes
during that period were upsets.
I have been to all stadiums in the MWC sans TCU and other stadiums. The Utah game has the most animosity with Wyo coming in 2nd.
The animosity is stronger on the Ute side, the comments here speak for themselves.
I have been to all stadiums in the MWC sans TCU and other stadiums. The Utah game has the most animosity with Wyo coming in 2nd.
The animosity is stronger on the Ute side, the comments here speak for themselves.
C Note | 12:37 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
All the BYU fans can split the 100 dollars down in LV & still come back w/
$98 & change.
Bottled water on the strip isn't free.
Bottled water on the strip isn't free.
Comments continue below
Good logic | 12:38 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I think the earlier post about the university demographics hit the nail on the
head. Only 31% of BYU students are from Utah, and I'm assuming
(couldn't find info on it) that more Utah students are from Utah than that.
BYU students don't understand the rivalry and its history as well as more
Utah students, who have grown up with it more. That tells me that Utah fans and
students are more appreciative of what this game means than BYU fans and
students. That's why it means so much more to them. I grew up in Utah and
Idaho, and went to BYU and am getting a J.D. at BYU, so I know what this game
means, so it means a lot to me, and I am just as passionate about the rivalry as
Ute fans are. But I seem to be part of the minority at BYU in that respect.
I'm just saying that more Ute fans have a deeper connection to the rivalry
than BYU fans. Anyone disagree?
P.S. to Good Logic | 12:41 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I found the info on how many Utah students are from Utah (residents v.
non-residents): 24,558 are residents, compared to 4,061 non-residents. So yeah,
most Utah students are Utahns, while just under a third of BYU students are
Utahns. Hmmmm. So which school do you think has more "Utah Mormons."
(Yes, I did. Let 'er rip, everybody!)
Kevin Nash | 12:41 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
re: Outsiders | 12:03 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I agree w/ the fact the most Y students are LDS & from out state primarily Cali & some from ID.
Think about this; Where would most of us be w/o a Utah Mormon somewhere in the family tree or elsewhere?
I agree w/ the fact the most Y students are LDS & from out state primarily Cali & some from ID.
Think about this; Where would most of us be w/o a Utah Mormon somewhere in the family tree or elsewhere?
RE: LDS Ute Fan | 12:42 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I'm an LDS Ute fan, and I have heard some of the worst swears, and most
vile, hateful comments from BYU fans who'll be in church right the next
day. This attitude that LDS is just better is the reason I stopped being a BYU
fan in the early 90's. When it comes to football, fans, attitudes behavior
all go out the window.
Yes perhaps, we dont' drink etc..., so what is our excuse for acting so horrible? Get off the high horse and realize that it's just a football team, not a banner for the LDS religion.
Yes perhaps, we dont' drink etc..., so what is our excuse for acting so horrible? Get off the high horse and realize that it's just a football team, not a banner for the LDS religion.
To Ute Fans | 12:51 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I went to both schools. The Ute fans tend to get more fiesty over the rivalry,
just look at the derogatory comments and which fans they represent. Relax Utes.
If you have high blood pressure I suggest taking up another interest. There a
quite a few Utes who are not necessarily cheering for Utah rather against BYU.
78Coug | 12:55 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I agree with "Cats". I'm a BYU grad and about 25 yrs ago
attended a U of U Institute activity with a friend. They didn't know I was
a BYU student and I couldn't believe the absolute derogatory comments that
were continually being made about BYU. Some were so negative, I wondered if we
were of the same religion!
It's one thing if you cheer for your school, but another if you hate another school because of what they try to stand for.
The bottom line is there is actual hatred from some of the Utah fans as a result of the religion factor! As a result of that hatred demonstrated by many Ute fans, some BYU fans being human don't want to put up with it so fight back. And unfortunately a small few instigate problems.
TO: "WE SAT": I'm sorry you experienced what you did in LES. If I would have been there, I would have proceeded to protect you and your wives-that was uncalled for!!
It's one thing if you cheer for your school, but another if you hate another school because of what they try to stand for.
The bottom line is there is actual hatred from some of the Utah fans as a result of the religion factor! As a result of that hatred demonstrated by many Ute fans, some BYU fans being human don't want to put up with it so fight back. And unfortunately a small few instigate problems.
TO: "WE SAT": I'm sorry you experienced what you did in LES. If I would have been there, I would have proceeded to protect you and your wives-that was uncalled for!!
I feel sorry for you | 12:56 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
After reading this article and some comments I honestly feel sorry for a lot of
the BYU fans. It seems that you live a life of contradictions, and live in fear
your whole life. I am LDS, but I don't understand the mentality that
everyone is out to get you because of your religion. Y fans like to say that the
game is a chance for Mormon haters to come out and chear agains the LDS
university and act like there are millions of people cheering for Utah (contrary
to the normal 20-30 people that are usually claimed by Y fans). I guess it is
just the culture that exists in Provo. I hate your fans for a lot of different
reasons, none of them involve where you go on Sunday.
For the article. It is embarassing to think that the Des News will print something like this. I realize that it was probably done to promote traffic to the site and contraversy. I understand that. In fact, there are a lot of papers that do it. The problem is that when a paper allows complete opinion and speculation, it is called a tabloid. It is sad really.
For the article. It is embarassing to think that the Des News will print something like this. I realize that it was probably done to promote traffic to the site and contraversy. I understand that. In fact, there are a lot of papers that do it. The problem is that when a paper allows complete opinion and speculation, it is called a tabloid. It is sad really.
Church Going UTE Fan | 12:57 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Dick,
Get real, You have got to have blinders on to say that "Ute fans get up more for the rivalry game than the BYU fans". I was reviewing our Stakes monthly calendar on Sunday, and guess what the entry read for Saturday November 22nd? (Yes, this is the Stake calendar for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints - the entry is entered by Church leaders). It read, "November 22nd UTAH vs BYU GO COUGS". Yes Doug, the Church calendar said "GO COUGS". And your trying to tell me that BYU fans don't get up for these games. I hate to go to Church in November because sometimes thats all I hear "GO COUGS this and GO COUGS that". You are wrong, the COUG fans "Get up" for this game.
Get real, You have got to have blinders on to say that "Ute fans get up more for the rivalry game than the BYU fans". I was reviewing our Stakes monthly calendar on Sunday, and guess what the entry read for Saturday November 22nd? (Yes, this is the Stake calendar for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints - the entry is entered by Church leaders). It read, "November 22nd UTAH vs BYU GO COUGS". Yes Doug, the Church calendar said "GO COUGS". And your trying to tell me that BYU fans don't get up for these games. I hate to go to Church in November because sometimes thats all I hear "GO COUGS this and GO COUGS that". You are wrong, the COUG fans "Get up" for this game.
??? | 12:57 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Journalism is all about balance and objectivity.
Arguments: 1, Utah cares more about the rivalry than BYU
Cougars quoted: 2, Jan Jorgensen and Bronco Mendenhall
Utes quoted: 0
Wow, what a thoughtful, illuminating article!
Go Utes!!!
Arguments: 1, Utah cares more about the rivalry than BYU
Cougars quoted: 2, Jan Jorgensen and Bronco Mendenhall
Utes quoted: 0
Wow, what a thoughtful, illuminating article!
Go Utes!!!
righteous coug | 12:57 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
As a BYU fan, I have always suspected I was a much better person than any Ute,
and thanks to Mr. Harmon for confirming that suspicion.
While being much classier and better behaved than the Utes, I still have no idea why they hate me. I guess I'll have to manage it instead of use it as fuel. Like Sister Janet Jorgenson said, "you will have to ask the Utes why they hate me." In the meantime, I guess I will have to settle for being perfect.
Much love,
typical coug
While being much classier and better behaved than the Utes, I still have no idea why they hate me. I guess I'll have to manage it instead of use it as fuel. Like Sister Janet Jorgenson said, "you will have to ask the Utes why they hate me." In the meantime, I guess I will have to settle for being perfect.
Much love,
typical coug
Holy War | 12:59 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
The Holy War is absolutely a spot-on name for it and I hope no one ever changes
it.
BYU | 1:00 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Don't mind BYU, just can't stand the fraction of them that are classic
zoobies. As long as I don't meet them, it's a pretty civil deal.
Both sides hate each other | 1:02 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I am a BYU graduate that grew up in California. I didn't know much about
the rivalry when I first began attending BYU. However, after going to my first
BYU-Utah football game, which BYU lost, it did not take me long to start hating
the Utes. I got particularly irked by some Ute fans who were razzing me with a
big "Choose the Red" banner. Let's be honest. BYU fans hate
Utah just as much as Utah hates BYU. Let's not pretend that one side is
more civil than the other or that one side gets more pumped up than the other.
There have been enough close games and losses on both sides the last few years
to fuel this rivalry. Bring it on!
Re: Righteous Coug | 1:10 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
You don't understand why the Ute fans hate you so much? I can gib=ve you
my reason, "you always buy out all the twinkies at the store" and I
can't find any to buy when I shop for my Aunt Emma.
GO UTES!!!
GO UTES!!!
A BYU/Utah History Lesson | 1:12 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
The Twilight Zone (pre-1922):
BY Academy 3
Utah 2
Since BYU didn't become a university until 1903, this time-period is disputed. BYU doesn't count it; Utah does, but they also count an April scrimmage in 1896 as a real game.
The Dark Ages (1922-1964):
Utah 34-2-4
Utah had been playing football for 30 years when BYU started their football program and met Utah for the first time in 1922, with Utah winning 49-0. BYU tied Utah in 1928, 1938, and 1941, but didn't win their first game until 1942, 12-7. Soon after, BYU suspended their football program for the remainder of World War II. Too bad, Utah had their worst team ever in 1943, 0-7, win 5 shutout losses and an average score of 5-42.
Utah won 19 conference championships, played in the Sun and Liberty bowls, finished #14 in the AP poll in 1964, and won 64% of their games (239-127-21).
BYU, meanwhile, won 41% of their games (137-199-23), no conference championships, no bowl games, and no rankings.
BY Academy 3
Utah 2
Since BYU didn't become a university until 1903, this time-period is disputed. BYU doesn't count it; Utah does, but they also count an April scrimmage in 1896 as a real game.
The Dark Ages (1922-1964):
Utah 34-2-4
Utah had been playing football for 30 years when BYU started their football program and met Utah for the first time in 1922, with Utah winning 49-0. BYU tied Utah in 1928, 1938, and 1941, but didn't win their first game until 1942, 12-7. Soon after, BYU suspended their football program for the remainder of World War II. Too bad, Utah had their worst team ever in 1943, 0-7, win 5 shutout losses and an average score of 5-42.
Utah won 19 conference championships, played in the Sun and Liberty bowls, finished #14 in the AP poll in 1964, and won 64% of their games (239-127-21).
BYU, meanwhile, won 41% of their games (137-199-23), no conference championships, no bowl games, and no rankings.
Mike R | 1:15 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Y fans do get up for the game. Y players don't seem to.
I went to Ricks and then to the U and my favorite T shirt to wear at the U was, "My favorite teams are BYU and whomever plays Utah." Even though I attended the U, that sentiment has not changed.
I went to Ricks and then to the U and my favorite T shirt to wear at the U was, "My favorite teams are BYU and whomever plays Utah." Even though I attended the U, that sentiment has not changed.
Some Things are Stupid | 1:18 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
BYU Fans are snotty, stuck up, self righteous hypocrites. Ute Fans are drunk,
crude, and vulgar hypocrites. Does this sound familiar?
If you have a terrible experience with some fans. Blame those specific fans, not the entire fan base, and certainly not the opposing team and coaches. That is just stupid, literally.
I belive that most BYU and Utah fans have more intelegence and class than that.
If you have a terrible experience with some fans. Blame those specific fans, not the entire fan base, and certainly not the opposing team and coaches. That is just stupid, literally.
I belive that most BYU and Utah fans have more intelegence and class than that.
BYU fan | 1:18 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I think the passion in the rivalry splits 50-50. Though i am a BYU fan I
don't hate the U too much, I'm glad that they have such a good
program, and combined with BYU the state of Utah deserves a lot of credit for
it's football programs.
the term "holy war" on the other hand is the STUPIDEST thing i've ever heard! I hate it when people say that, espeically media people.
This game is going to be great, wish I had tickets.
BYU 21
utah 17
the term "holy war" on the other hand is the STUPIDEST thing i've ever heard! I hate it when people say that, espeically media people.
This game is going to be great, wish I had tickets.
BYU 21
utah 17
Alex | 1:23 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
What might gall some bitter Utes about a BYU Alumnus and Fan like me is the fact
that I don't apologize for my love of BYU. Call me stiff, call me
closedminded, call me self-righteous. Whatever.
Look, I have good friends that are Utes, but as friends, we have proper respect for each other. Sure, we tease, we really do respect each other and there is no bitterness there.
On the other hand, there are a few too many bitter Utes with a chip on their shoulder, that have this "more broadminded than thou" attitude. I have to admit, at times it is tempting to do something provocative just to help them enjoy their hate a little more. It seems to give them something to live for. And why not, the bitter ones don't want any reason to like anybody from BYU anyway.
Look, I have good friends that are Utes, but as friends, we have proper respect for each other. Sure, we tease, we really do respect each other and there is no bitterness there.
On the other hand, there are a few too many bitter Utes with a chip on their shoulder, that have this "more broadminded than thou" attitude. I have to admit, at times it is tempting to do something provocative just to help them enjoy their hate a little more. It seems to give them something to live for. And why not, the bitter ones don't want any reason to like anybody from BYU anyway.
Ref: Inferiority vs Reality | 1:27 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
BYU's goal is not to go to the BCS. Utes fans and Boise State fans are
satisfied with going to the BCS and happy to go back there, but BYU fans want to
travel somewhere where utes and broncos have not been and that is back to a
National Championship which neither team has done in the past. Set your sights
low, a BCS, and be happy for achieving that low horizon. BYU is going to always
shoot for the top and since it happened once before, it could happen again. The
inferiority comes from utes fans setting low unimaginable goals and then failing
to acheive them.
Pancho | 1:29 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Dick......From my perspective you have portrayed an accurate view of the
Blue/Red Rivalry - Unfortunately, based on a quick read of your readers
comments, you are "reaping" the vitriol for your "on-point"
assesment.
I am a resident transplant from my home state of Colorado, a graduate from Utah State, and have resided in this great State since 2001 as part of my profession. I am formost a cougar fan, but also root for the Utes outside the rivalry game.
My background has provided my with a differenct perspective surrounding the "interesting' side of human behavior that is generated by this rivalry.
I once socked a drunk Ute fan in the nose for urinating on an elderly cougar fan at RES; Likewise, I have watched in amazement as a cougar fan sat in prayer prior to the famous "4th and 18" play.
God Bless us all, Dick.......but some of us really do need to get a life.
Gracias for the great article
I am a resident transplant from my home state of Colorado, a graduate from Utah State, and have resided in this great State since 2001 as part of my profession. I am formost a cougar fan, but also root for the Utes outside the rivalry game.
My background has provided my with a differenct perspective surrounding the "interesting' side of human behavior that is generated by this rivalry.
I once socked a drunk Ute fan in the nose for urinating on an elderly cougar fan at RES; Likewise, I have watched in amazement as a cougar fan sat in prayer prior to the famous "4th and 18" play.
God Bless us all, Dick.......but some of us really do need to get a life.
Gracias for the great article
TRUE UTE FANS | 1:33 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I was at the Beavers game and saw the supposedly devout Ute fans leaving the
stadium as fast they could with three minutes left in the game. Fortunately,
the Ute players are quite the quitters that their fans are. Sad that only a
small portion of the ute fans got to see a truly miraculous finish and victory.
I felt bad that the player saw their supposedl devout fans bail on them when
things looked dim. But that's ute fans for you.
I like it | 1:35 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Ha ha! "More broad-minded than thou." Classic. I love it.
Some Ute fans think BYU is full of ignorant, self-righteous snobs.
Some (albeit probably a smaller number--in my experience, much of the BYU student body simply doesn't care) BYU fans think the U is full of foul-mouthed drunks.
There are truths to those statements, but only small ones.
I had the privelege of attending LaVell's last game at Utah, and the Ute fans around us couldn't have been more gracious and sportsmanlike, even while passionately supporting the Utes. I wish I could say the same for some of the Utah State fans at this year's BYU-USU game.
Here's the point. We all love football and there's no reason why this game has to be about anything more than football, and for the most part, that's the way it is.
Some Ute fans think BYU is full of ignorant, self-righteous snobs.
Some (albeit probably a smaller number--in my experience, much of the BYU student body simply doesn't care) BYU fans think the U is full of foul-mouthed drunks.
There are truths to those statements, but only small ones.
I had the privelege of attending LaVell's last game at Utah, and the Ute fans around us couldn't have been more gracious and sportsmanlike, even while passionately supporting the Utes. I wish I could say the same for some of the Utah State fans at this year's BYU-USU game.
Here's the point. We all love football and there's no reason why this game has to be about anything more than football, and for the most part, that's the way it is.
Yo Dick | 1:36 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Thanks for the article.......
I will never read another one of your articles again.
These few paragraphs sum up why so many people dislike BYU.
ABSOLUTE ARROGANCE!
I will never read another one of your articles again.
These few paragraphs sum up why so many people dislike BYU.
ABSOLUTE ARROGANCE!
Game Day | 1:45 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Game day is right around the corner. Utes are going to parade their stuff and
knock the stuffin out of the Cougar doll. Big sister will cry her eyes out.
BYU Fan | 1:48 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
The reason that BYU fans hate Utah and Utah fans hate BYU is becuase they have
had so many close games. I don't hate Utah becuase I think they are a bunch
of bad mouthed drunks, and most Utah fans I know(and I grew up in salt lake so I
know a lot) don't hate BYU becuase they think we are self-rightous and
arrogant. We just like calling people names. We hate each other becuase the
games are always so close. So would everybody please stop arguing and just them
play. GO BYU!!!!
Stuck in 1984... | 1:48 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
@ Ref: Inferiority vs Reality:
BCS? We need no BCS!
Regards,
Ute envy
BCS? We need no BCS!
Regards,
Ute envy
frothing at the mouth | 1:54 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Wow there are SO many frothing-at-the-mouth yoot fans posting here. DH hit a
home run with this one. Way to go, DH! Five pages of comments and still growing.
Keep up the good work!
Even though yoot fans do get a lot more worked up over the games than we BYU fans and they do hate us whereas we do not hate them, I do feel very sorry for them because of what happened to their library one time. You see, there was a fire in their library and all 11 books were destroyed. The really sad thing is 5 of them hadn't been colored in yet.
GO COUGARS!!!!
Even though yoot fans do get a lot more worked up over the games than we BYU fans and they do hate us whereas we do not hate them, I do feel very sorry for them because of what happened to their library one time. You see, there was a fire in their library and all 11 books were destroyed. The really sad thing is 5 of them hadn't been colored in yet.
GO COUGARS!!!!
Peewit Fans | 2:01 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
"Any man that judges by the group is a peewit."
--Buster Kilrain "Killer Angels" by Michael Shaara
As a Utah Alum, avid BYU fan, with mixed BYU/Utah alum parents, I grew up in Utah with an appreciation for the rivalry.
Believe me, the rivalry hasn't always been so acrimonious.
Blame it on LaVell.
He turned a mediocre team into a national power, and in the process, turned the rivalry on its head.
Utah fans who were used to dominating BYU were suddenly thrust into the unfamiliar role of whipping boy.
BYU fans who had become numb to the annual beatings suddenly saw their team administering the annual beatings.
It was natural for Utah fans to react with bitterness, and for BYU fans to respond with smugness.
Utah finally became competitive again, even surpassing BYU in some respects and the rivalry heated up.
Throw in the Mormon haters, yes there are those who aren't really Utah fans, but simply dispise BYU and anything else even remotely connected to the LDS church, and the volatile mixture began to brew.
The rivalry has been reborn, with teams that are finally competitive.
It's too bad that some fans just can't appreciate that!
--Buster Kilrain "Killer Angels" by Michael Shaara
As a Utah Alum, avid BYU fan, with mixed BYU/Utah alum parents, I grew up in Utah with an appreciation for the rivalry.
Believe me, the rivalry hasn't always been so acrimonious.
Blame it on LaVell.
He turned a mediocre team into a national power, and in the process, turned the rivalry on its head.
Utah fans who were used to dominating BYU were suddenly thrust into the unfamiliar role of whipping boy.
BYU fans who had become numb to the annual beatings suddenly saw their team administering the annual beatings.
It was natural for Utah fans to react with bitterness, and for BYU fans to respond with smugness.
Utah finally became competitive again, even surpassing BYU in some respects and the rivalry heated up.
Throw in the Mormon haters, yes there are those who aren't really Utah fans, but simply dispise BYU and anything else even remotely connected to the LDS church, and the volatile mixture began to brew.
The rivalry has been reborn, with teams that are finally competitive.
It's too bad that some fans just can't appreciate that!
Wayne Rout | 2:05 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Here's the deal... after this game, win or loose, I'll be pulling for
Utah in their bowl game. Win or loose, the Utah fans will be pulling for whom
every BYU plays. Cougar fans generally are comfortable with who they are,
Utah fans are insecure and filled with doubt. The thing that amazes me is how
fast the season has gone. After looking forward to this game for months, it is
sad that it will soon be history. I hope that the Ute fans can be good sports
and enjoy the game and show good sportsmanship. Who will win...we'll know
all too soon.
LDSUTE | 2:06 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Love the church, can't stand the Y. The same arrogance that got the church
booted from several states still exists in zoobie land. I guess BYU lost to TCU
because Austin Collie yielded to temptation and broke a commandment that week.
By the way, where is Lenny Gomes employed?
BYU needs to get fired up! | 2:08 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I'm a cougar fan and can honestly say that it seems every year that the Ute
players are more fired up than BYU players. I think this is the reason that the
cougars have not been able to crush Utah in years that it should have. 2001 is
a good example of this, 2006 is an even better example. Why was it that the
2006 cougars, who in it's 8 previous games beat their opponents by an
average of 30 points, had to come from behind to beat Utah in the final seconds?
I can tell you why...lack of emotion!
Utah fan | 2:09 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Whether Harmon is right or wrong, my fellow Ute fan's defensiveness on the
issue isn't helping the cause. We all know Harmon is a blueblood, and
that's fine, but Ute fans' scathing comments about him and BYU fans in
general only lends validation the inferiority complex theory. Just let it go. We
should be above that.
To the gentleman who not so subtlely claimed all U of U students still live at home: Please, tell me what's so adventurous about moving 30 minutes away to Provo and being among people who abide by the same rules issued by your parents even when not under supervision.
To the gentleman who not so subtlely claimed all U of U students still live at home: Please, tell me what's so adventurous about moving 30 minutes away to Provo and being among people who abide by the same rules issued by your parents even when not under supervision.
Amen. | 2:09 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
First off, I'm sick of all the Ute fans commenting here. Deseret News is
BYU zone -- go read your Tribune or something, or deal with the fact that the DN
is going to favor the BYU opinion.
Second off, there are no true Ute fans. There are true blue Coug fans, and then Coug-haters. Nobody loves cheering for a stepping stone, so get a life and leave Harmon alone.
Second off, there are no true Ute fans. There are true blue Coug fans, and then Coug-haters. Nobody loves cheering for a stepping stone, so get a life and leave Harmon alone.
Alex | 2:15 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Yo Dick:
"These few paragraphs sum up why so many people dislike BYU.
ABSOLUTE ARROGANCE! "
Apparently we are not as humble as you are. Utes like you are so far advanced above our arrogance. Have patience, please. Show us lowly arrogant BYU snobs, pray tell, how we can ever hope to achieve the humility that you so bounteously exude.
"These few paragraphs sum up why so many people dislike BYU.
ABSOLUTE ARROGANCE! "
Apparently we are not as humble as you are. Utes like you are so far advanced above our arrogance. Have patience, please. Show us lowly arrogant BYU snobs, pray tell, how we can ever hope to achieve the humility that you so bounteously exude.
Reed A Lott | 2:15 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
re: Some Things are Stupid | 1:18 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Well. Utah fans anyway.
re: frothing at the mouth | 1:54 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
A BYU fan who knows what a library is? I'm impressed or is it your calling to make sure everything back by the end of block time?
Well. Utah fans anyway.
re: frothing at the mouth | 1:54 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
A BYU fan who knows what a library is? I'm impressed or is it your calling to make sure everything back by the end of block time?
TucsonUte | 2:16 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
If the DN sports writers were sitting around making bets on who could write the
most inflammatory article for this week's game...Dick Harmon is the
winner.
I don't believe Utah fans take the rivalry more serious than BYU fans. Every-time I wear my U of U hat in public in Tucson, BYU fans come out of the woodwork and give me a hard time. All my buddies that are BYU grads usually send me an email each season before the game to remind me that BYU is going to beat the Utes. Once, as I suffered thru a 55-7 drubbing (wearing red) at Provo in 1983, I recall getting verbally abused (minus the swearing) all game by Y fans (even the old ladies). At every family reunion I attend-- it is the BYU fans that bring up the rivalry first. I even had to put up with BYU fans in 1988 whining while sitting in the U of U student section during a 57-28 Utah win.
The only indifferent folks in Utah to the rivalry are USU and WSU alumni.
A sportswriter friend in Utah told me once "it's not the BYU players or coaches I dislike--it's their fans.
I don't believe Utah fans take the rivalry more serious than BYU fans. Every-time I wear my U of U hat in public in Tucson, BYU fans come out of the woodwork and give me a hard time. All my buddies that are BYU grads usually send me an email each season before the game to remind me that BYU is going to beat the Utes. Once, as I suffered thru a 55-7 drubbing (wearing red) at Provo in 1983, I recall getting verbally abused (minus the swearing) all game by Y fans (even the old ladies). At every family reunion I attend-- it is the BYU fans that bring up the rivalry first. I even had to put up with BYU fans in 1988 whining while sitting in the U of U student section during a 57-28 Utah win.
The only indifferent folks in Utah to the rivalry are USU and WSU alumni.
A sportswriter friend in Utah told me once "it's not the BYU players or coaches I dislike--it's their fans.
King | 2:19 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
BYU OR UTAH? Ask any team or group of coaches who they would want to play
anytime, anywhere! Unanimously the answer would be BYU! Hands down! Everybody
wants to play BYU, either out of RESPECT or HATRED, period! Utah does not have
that kind of RESPECT! That's why they hate.
Stuck in 1984... | 2:21 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
@ frothing at the mouth:
Where can I find the Rameumptom?
Regards,
Self Righteous
Where can I find the Rameumptom?
Regards,
Self Righteous
Henry Drummond | 2:22 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I remember the days when for BYU to only lose to Utah by two touchdowns was
considered a "moral victory". Then BYU went on a run where a BYU win
was almost automatic. Now things are a lot more even.
I would also agree that BYU fans don't get into this as much as Utah fans. I think that is because BYU fans are just so dog gone special, and special fans would never rag on their opponent or do anything to spoil their image of specialness.
At any rate I would like to follow their special example and wish them a truly special time playing UCLA in the Las Vegas Bowl while we play on a real team on New Years day.
Go Utah.
I would also agree that BYU fans don't get into this as much as Utah fans. I think that is because BYU fans are just so dog gone special, and special fans would never rag on their opponent or do anything to spoil their image of specialness.
At any rate I would like to follow their special example and wish them a truly special time playing UCLA in the Las Vegas Bowl while we play on a real team on New Years day.
Go Utah.
History Lesson | 2:22 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
What happened to the rest of the BYU/Utah history lesson? Did the DN red pen it?
Journalist | 2:24 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
This was a column. A column is a piece of work giving opinions and observations
of the writer. A column is not require--nor usually desired--to be piece of
objective journalism.
Cougs care somewhat | 2:26 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
After reading the article and some of the comments, I have 4 things to say:
1-BYU fans care about the rivalry but not as much as Ute fans because: (a) half the Y student body comes from outside of Utah like AZ and CA, where the rivalry is meaningless; (b) many Ute students applied to the Y, and went to Utah after receiving the Y's rejection letter, so they have an axe to grind; and (c) state residents who are LDS and didn't attend the Y (see b) resent sending a portion of their tithing money to support BYU.
2-Ute fans feel marginalized by the suggestion that Y fans don't care as much...time for some therapy.
3-Utah will likely win the game due to its speed on defense and bruising running backs, but if the game's close at the end, the Y will have a distinct advantage as long as Brice McCain remains on the field.
4-Even if BYU managed to pull the upset, I hope they don't get invited to a BCS Bowl--it could get ugly.
1-BYU fans care about the rivalry but not as much as Ute fans because: (a) half the Y student body comes from outside of Utah like AZ and CA, where the rivalry is meaningless; (b) many Ute students applied to the Y, and went to Utah after receiving the Y's rejection letter, so they have an axe to grind; and (c) state residents who are LDS and didn't attend the Y (see b) resent sending a portion of their tithing money to support BYU.
2-Ute fans feel marginalized by the suggestion that Y fans don't care as much...time for some therapy.
3-Utah will likely win the game due to its speed on defense and bruising running backs, but if the game's close at the end, the Y will have a distinct advantage as long as Brice McCain remains on the field.
4-Even if BYU managed to pull the upset, I hope they don't get invited to a BCS Bowl--it could get ugly.
U're supposed to win! | 2:29 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Times have changed. Since the end of the Lavell era when there wasn't much
character difference between BYU and Uni. of Miami football players, there is no
doubt that Utah now has access to a broader range of athletes than BYU--speed
kills.
The honor code that Mendenhall actually enforces trims the talent pool available to BYU while Utah can draw on a broad range of athletes regardless of their personal vices.
Additionally, although burdened by misinformation and exaggerations, Utah does not have to deal with the stigma of being perceived as an all-white institution to the same extent as BYU. Consequently, Utah fans are understandably ashamed, confused, and bloodthirsty when a bunch of slow prudes defeat their superior, mary-jane smokin, amoral athletes. Based on speed and strength that is the essence of success in college football, Utah should win on Saturday but, yet again, will not. Like they say, "When you do what's right, good things happen." Cougars 27, Utah 17.
The honor code that Mendenhall actually enforces trims the talent pool available to BYU while Utah can draw on a broad range of athletes regardless of their personal vices.
Additionally, although burdened by misinformation and exaggerations, Utah does not have to deal with the stigma of being perceived as an all-white institution to the same extent as BYU. Consequently, Utah fans are understandably ashamed, confused, and bloodthirsty when a bunch of slow prudes defeat their superior, mary-jane smokin, amoral athletes. Based on speed and strength that is the essence of success in college football, Utah should win on Saturday but, yet again, will not. Like they say, "When you do what's right, good things happen." Cougars 27, Utah 17.
Utah/BYU History II | 2:31 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
The Age of Enlightenment (1965-1971):
BYU 3
Utah 4
In 1965, BYU started a string of 3 straight wins, breaking Utah's dominance and more than doubling their win total from the first 50 years of the rivalry. Utah won the next four games, and then LaVell Edwards became BYU's head coach.
The Cougars Rule (1972-1992):
BYU 19
Utah 2
In 1972, a man destined to become a living legend in college football took the reins of the BYU program. During the next 21 years, LaVell's teams won a National Championship, 15 conference championships, played in 17 bowl games, won 74% of their games (191-67-3), won the most lopsided game in BYU/Utah rivalry history, 56-6 in 1980, won a Heisman trophy and numerous other individual awards, beat defending champion and #1 ranked Miami, and finished ranked in the Top 20/25 ten times.
Utah, meanwhile, won 45% of their games (106-130-3), no conference championship, no bowls, and no rankings.
BYU 3
Utah 4
In 1965, BYU started a string of 3 straight wins, breaking Utah's dominance and more than doubling their win total from the first 50 years of the rivalry. Utah won the next four games, and then LaVell Edwards became BYU's head coach.
The Cougars Rule (1972-1992):
BYU 19
Utah 2
In 1972, a man destined to become a living legend in college football took the reins of the BYU program. During the next 21 years, LaVell's teams won a National Championship, 15 conference championships, played in 17 bowl games, won 74% of their games (191-67-3), won the most lopsided game in BYU/Utah rivalry history, 56-6 in 1980, won a Heisman trophy and numerous other individual awards, beat defending champion and #1 ranked Miami, and finished ranked in the Top 20/25 ten times.
Utah, meanwhile, won 45% of their games (106-130-3), no conference championship, no bowls, and no rankings.
Mike Johnson Fallon NV | 2:32 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Re: Amen. The Deseret News belongs just as much to the Utes as it does to the
Cougars. I have never liked the Tribune anywhere near as much as the Deseret
News. The Deseret News covers the Utes. It is a Salt Lake paper. This article
is about Ute fans. Why don't you go back to the Provo Herald? The Deseret
News is pretty balanced between the two schools because it knows that its
readership is split in its loyalties. The Provo Herald and the Salt Lake
Tribune readers are not.
Secondly, I am a true Ute fan who does not hate the Cougars. I have two bachelors degrees from Utah and a graduate degree from BYU. Note, there are as many Cougar fans who hate the Utes as there are Utah fans that hate the Cougars.
BTW, having spent years at both schools and having read thousands of comments this year and in previous years, I can truthfully say that BYU fans stoke the fire on this rivalry as much as Utah fans. This includes the author o "Amen." who appears to be more of a Ute hater than a true Blue BYU fan.
Secondly, I am a true Ute fan who does not hate the Cougars. I have two bachelors degrees from Utah and a graduate degree from BYU. Note, there are as many Cougar fans who hate the Utes as there are Utah fans that hate the Cougars.
BTW, having spent years at both schools and having read thousands of comments this year and in previous years, I can truthfully say that BYU fans stoke the fire on this rivalry as much as Utah fans. This includes the author o "Amen." who appears to be more of a Ute hater than a true Blue BYU fan.
BYU/Utah History III | 2:32 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
The Age of Paradox (1993-2008):
BYU 6
Utah 9
In 1993, Utah started a string of 3 straight wins, breaking BYU's dominance and more than doubling their win total from the last 20 years of the rivalry. Since then, we�ve seen many memorable games between these teams, with both teams enjoying the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat, characterized by sayings like �34-31�, �Harline is still open�, and �4th and 18�.
BYU has won 65% of their games (130-69), 7 conference championships, played in 9 bowl games, and finished ranked 5 times, with their highest finish #5 in 1996 (14-1).
Utah has won 68% of their games (128-61), 4 conference championships, played in 10 bowl games, and finished ranked 3 times, with their highest finish #4/#5/#6 in 2004 (12-0).
Overall
BYU 494-371-26 (57%) , 23 conference championships
Utah 593-417-31 (58%), 25 conference championships
BYU 6
Utah 9
In 1993, Utah started a string of 3 straight wins, breaking BYU's dominance and more than doubling their win total from the last 20 years of the rivalry. Since then, we�ve seen many memorable games between these teams, with both teams enjoying the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat, characterized by sayings like �34-31�, �Harline is still open�, and �4th and 18�.
BYU has won 65% of their games (130-69), 7 conference championships, played in 9 bowl games, and finished ranked 5 times, with their highest finish #5 in 1996 (14-1).
Utah has won 68% of their games (128-61), 4 conference championships, played in 10 bowl games, and finished ranked 3 times, with their highest finish #4/#5/#6 in 2004 (12-0).
Overall
BYU 494-371-26 (57%) , 23 conference championships
Utah 593-417-31 (58%), 25 conference championships
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If Harmon were a true journalist instead of an op-ed writer, we would have seen several quotes from Ute players and coaches during the season regarding their hatred towards BYU...but there is no evidence! No quotes from the Utes! The more likely thing here (and I have no evidence either, which gives me similar credentials to Mr. Harmon)...is that the Ute players and coaches NEVER mentioned BYU until this week.
Let's face it, Harmon lives in a fantasy land (Orem area I think).
BTW, what are the chances BYU fans are stereotyping Ute fans? Pretty classic.
No prediction for this game, cuz' them cougars have tore out our hearts the last two years---and anything can happen on rivalry weeK!
Go Utes!