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Gay-rights activists call for LDS help

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concerned | 5:11 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

cat I like what you have said.I think to many times things are said and they are not researced at all. Why the church is cursed and blamed is beyond me? People make up the church.The people of that church joined that church to follow God and his example.The bible teaches Gods will for His children.The church leaders have asked that its members remain kind and to refrain from anger and hurt.Church intentions don't force its beliefs on others it teaches it belief to others who are willing to know.From what I have seen the Gays and Lesbians are constantly(Respectfully Not all of them do but many do)out there showing and telling people who they are in very different ways. Gay mardigras,marches & dressed and behave quite repulsively.I don't see God feeling proud of His children when behaving like animals. Gay or not.
I can relate to the feelings of unjustice.But I think persecution & spreading untruths & hatred is not constructive and spreads the opposite message.
Do GL's know what the real agenda is? The behaviour exhibited is just another form of mob mentality -

realitycheck | 5:19 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

re hev 4:45pm

KJV bible? isn't that the old testament? with the talking snake and people's children being sacrificed?

You do realize that "back in the day" they used to do all kinds of wicked things to people, and said it was ok because the Old testament said so? And that it all was written before Jesus? I certainly doubt God even approves of the old testament. It's merely an historical document on how NOT to treat people.

Everyone seems to agree that Jesus was God's son. Jesus didn't say anything about gays, and some say a couple of the disciples were in fact gay. But all churches seem to conveniently ignore those portions of the bible.

how do you get around that?

for the record - NO WHERE does Jesus, Mathew, John, et al say anything about homosexuality. And in the old testament, EVERYTHING was evil. And you should have multiple wives and practice smiting each other.

so hev - I've read the 4:45pm post, and once agin have to say that your beliefs that gays are sinners is based on your upbringing and your church, NOT anything God said...

not gay, not mormon, golden rule practitioner only.

gay marriage in schools | 5:20 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

A week or so before the election, homosexuals sponsored ally week in California. KINDERGARTNERS were given a pledge to sign. Parents were upset and took their kids out of school. The teacher sent home a newsletter saying coming out day was a day to be remembered. She has pictures of same sex couples displayed in her classroom. The TV reporter tried several times to get the state superintendent of schools to answer to question about homosexuality being taught in the schools to young kids. He wouldn't answer even though pressed several times. This was the same man appearing in the no on 8 ads claiming it wouldn't be taught in schools. Google kindergarten, gay pledge, Hayward California and you can find it and even see the news report from the bay area cbs tv station-kpix.

Comments continue below

Interesting | 5:25 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Why ask a religion to abandon it's teachings?

Oh yeah, the only religion that progressives have is themselves and their desires at any given moment!

The puerile self-absorbtion of the left is unending and has no bounds!

Perhaps if the progressives had refrained from attacking old ladies, Christians, supporters of Prop 8, etc, this latest ploy would sound just a little bit less nonsensical.

stunned | 5:27 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Anonymous - What the heck are u on about? Mormons being the persecutors? what a Joker u are? The mormons just voted how on something they believed to be right. Marriage 1 man one women! Does the bible speak with fork tongue? GL's claim to be religious and someone made a discusting remark that God is Gay? How insulting? So he would have written in the bible and in other scripture how abominable a behaviour it is & create man & women & teach we cannot be in his site with the least degree of sin... ONLY to be a Gay Himself. Does anyone see the sense in that? Mormons and others voted against Prop8 because they don't want it to happen, & try to act peacefully and then still get labled as persecutors!!! Wow... that makes sense? NOT

re Bob 5:05pm | 5:33 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

so then divorce should be illegal. if you procreate, then you should be STUCK until the child reaches 18 and moves on. That way there's a mom and a dad raising the child. Or do you think just one parent is better than two as long as they are not gay? And since gays cannot have children, WHY DO YOU CARE IF THEY GET MARRIED?

there is nothing natural about thinking you will go to some special asteral plain when you die - yet you believe it. There is nothing natural about flying, yet you take planes (I assume).

And it would be better if you didn't say ignorant things like "this is not what God has intended for the family". Unless you've sat and chatted with the big guy, you are really just saying what you believe. In other words, pushing your religious beliefs onto others.

I'm not gay, and wouldn't want to be, but I know enough of them to know that they are not anything like you imagine them to be.

Deranged | 5:39 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

I DO NOT WANT GAY PERVERSION TAUGHT TO MY CHILDREN WITHIN THE SCHOOLS. THAT WOULD BE STEALING MY FREEDOM, AS IT WOULD BE FOR MY CHILDREN. THIS ALL NEEDS TO END!!!!!

realitycheck | 5:42 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

there are 10 commandments and one golden rule. don't break them and you will have lived a fine life.

pray tell - which one say "don't be gay"?

@deranged | 5:50 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

you are truley deranged I agree

to deranged and stunned | 5:51 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

to stunned -

I don't think anyone ever said God is gay. He (or She) doesn't have an orientation, and loves everyone equally. Now the disciples are another matter, but no one knows for sure...

to Deranged -

no one is teaching anything about gays in school except to be tolerant of others. Do you really not want your children to learn tolerance of others? What if they decide they don't like people of color?

do you realize racism is still taught in school in the deep south, by racists teachers? That's the same as the teacher that teaches about gays - a rogue teacher that isn't going to stop simply because of or due to prop 8 - any more than the racist teacher will stop teaching due to integration and a black president.

if you don't want rogue teachers teaching your kids, get more involved in your school so you can verify what is being taught by your children's teachers. Go to parent night.

by the way - some rogue teachers are actually telling students that dinosaurs existed. I know Sarah Palin would have a fit, but that's just the way it is in public schools....

for Jesus 3:51 & 4:47 | 5:52 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Alter boy, the three C's, and Catholic school, huh. If you say you've read the Bible, I'll believe you. Here are some passages to reread, to study, to ponder, and to pray about.

Gen. 19: 5
Lev. 18: 22
Lev. 20: 13
Deut. 23: 17
Isa. 3: 9
Rom. 1: 27
1 Cor. 6: 9
1 Tim. 1: 10
Jude 1: 7

Asteral planes? You've got that confused with another belief set. But, hmmmmm, intersting. I'll have to ponder how that might relate in some left field way to LDS theology.

Infertile couples marrying and raising children in no way violates God's plan of eternal progression. Gay couples raising children does. For you to understand and comment on that, you would first need to understand what that plan is. I'm sure the missionaries would be happy to share it with you. You may or may not believe it or agree with it. But, from your current knowledge point, you're only reacting in ignorance.

stund | 6:00 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Please explain what is the 5 new bills about?
don't anyone think that the Latter Day Saint prophets will ever receive direction from God to change the church's positon on same-sex attraction.. I think that is warped thinking:

hev | 6:10 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Dear realitycheck:

Ok, let's try from the New Testament, Romans chapter 1. Specifically verses 26 & 27. Also 1 Corinthians 6:9. How about 1 Timothy 1:9-10 (do read from the beginning so as to understand Paul's msg of Hope, even Jesus). Let's not ignore Jude 1, with its reference of Sodom and Gomorrha (from the Old Testament, for some of those laws were still applicable - not all were done away with by Christ).

Please, do not put me down for my belief. I study the scriptures, and I receive confirmation as I pray. Might you read these references as well and give it a try, with an open mind and heart?

Don't forget - if you've read prior to my 4:45pm post - I am the mother of two children with homosexual feelings. I see both sides of the fence but I stand on one, based on my knowledge of that which I study...not what I hear from others or as I was raised.

I believe I have more direct experience with this subject than you. It has, in fact, taught me to judge less and love more.

And oh yes, the Golden Rule is from the NT.

realitycheck | 6:12 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

to poster about Jesus at 5:52pm

got anything more recent? looks like all old testament to me. Should I stone my neighbors? It's two gay ladies, in their 60s.... how about I sacrifice my kids? that would fit right into the old testament teachings...

you state that you can have missionaries come and explain God's plan to me....

so - you really believe you know God's plan...

Now it's easy to see the problem. Talk about delusional...

An honest question for LDS | 6:34 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

I have always wondered one thing throughout this coverage of prop 8 and gay rights and the involvement of the LDS church. I am Methodist so but have had family members that are LDS. I am 25, and very involved in my church and can understand the passion many LDS members have shown. I have studied Mormonism, and have one question I pose in order to gain a better understanding of the theology LDS members follow. My understanding is that you marry in sacred Temples for Time and All Eternity, I want to understand more about what happens after we die? My understanding is that LDS theology states Men will have everlasting life, to become like God and that most LDS members believe they can have multiple wives in heaven. 1. Is the previous correct or not correct. 2. If your church proclaims One Man and One Women in marriage, is that just here on earth then we can have plural wives. Any thoughts on this subject would greatly be appreciated. My church is completely different, at least the local church I attend, they accept gays, and just seem more open. Please help me understand, I am torn

Lkmday | 6:39 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Just because the LDS Church does not oppose gay/lesbian civil unions or certains rights for such couples does mean it will support or promote their cause or ideas. The Church is in place to help people to come unto Christ and learn of him. Altering the legal definition of marriage can have far reaching effects. Do we want our children indoctrinated with the idea that they can marry anyone, male or female; that there no difference? I think not.

The "Kindergarten" rumor | 7:22 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

is blown way out of proportion to help those that supported Proposition 8. Kindergartners (and other kids) are not taught about gay lifestyles! The extent of anything said is that families can be different...sometimes single parents, sometimes relatives (do to death or some other situation) sometimes adoptive parents. Like it or not, it is true that some families include two adults of the same gender (whether or not this is due to relatives combining forces or a gay couple.)You narrow minded people need to grow up and face the real world!

EVIL GOOD GOOD EVIL | 7:32 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

they didn't hurt my family.

to realitycheck 6:12 | 8:00 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Both OT and NT references given.

You seem to think the OT is now invalid. Do you then discount the validity of the 10 commandments? The OT was the old, lesser law - the law of Moses. It was given by the God of the Old Testament, Christ, as appropriate for those times and people. All parts of the law were aimed at pointing his people to him, and to his coming to earth. When Christ came to earth incarnate, he fulfilled that law, and brought a new, higher law, in which all things were new. Some laws were flat out, new. Some were simply REnewed.

That someone who doesn't believe in religion thinks that knowing something about God's plan is delusional is not new or surpising.

However, that is the Gospel ("Good News") of Jesus Christ. That he has a plan. We're a part of it. He communicates it to his prophets, and commands them to relay it to the rest of us. The rest of us can then pray to receive understanding and confirmation of the truth of that message by the power of the Holy Ghost. We then strive live that message in faith.

Adam | 8:09 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does want to help our so-called "gay and lesbian" brothers and sisters. The Church wants to help them know that they are children of a loving Father in Heaven who wants them to return to Him. The Church wants to help them overcome their same-sex attraction so they can become chaste as the Savior would have us be to once again be able to dwell with Him and the Father. The Church will offer what the Savior does, love...a charitable love. Not a lustful love of the flesh but a real and pure love.

don't think so | 8:16 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

so they protest at our holy places and call us haters.... and now they want our help.... don't think so

To Tom 2:17 pm 11/17 | 8:16 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

I like my "moral high horse", It's what has helped this country be the great place it is. We can only hope we can keep a moral majority (and hope the courts don't cram more legislation down our throats)

Here they are | 8:46 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

please explain | 4:18 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008 said:

ï¿½several posters have asked for direct reference concerning how God condemns gays. No one has taken the torch and provided specifics.

so - you all just believe the preacher, pastor, priest, or whomever you listen to on Sunday... and your parents antiquated views.... and use that to say God disapproves. How quaint.

Either provide specifics or admit that it is YOU and your church that condemn gays.ï¿½

You want specificsï¿½ Please read the first Chapter of Romans.

washcomom | 9:05 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Someone once told me a great proverb:

"Do the next RIGHT thing to make your life more in-line with God's".

Everyone knows that each side has something to gain and lose here. We need to have patience and see clearly what the next step would be. Forcing the issue is not the answer. Sometimes it takes a little coaxing and gentle persuasion to do the task. Even the Constitution of the US didn't happen in a few hours. It was after many days of long discussions that it did finally come about. After that, it took years to apply. Law is not simple. It is very complex.

We have become an "instant" society, needing everything done in one moment's notice. So - relax a moment and breathe!

YouSaidIt | 9:10 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

The point is your own leaders said they are "not against civil unions." Well, then, it's time to put your money where your mouth is. Or did they just mean they're not against civil unions in CALIFORNIA, which already had them? I get it, save THAT battle for another day. That's the Reactionary Agenda.

Re: Choice? | 9:11 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

"I must say, that as an objective observer and reader here, that it is astonishing that so many people posting seem to sincerely believe that homosexuality is a choice. Is there really such ignorance that still exists in this modern and educated society? It is rather incredible, and indeed, very disappointing."

The feelings these people feel are certainly not by choice. I don't think anybody still believes that. But acting on those feelings, just as it is for heterosexuals, is a choice. They have the ability to choose what to believe, and how to act, just like the rest of us. They have the ability to refrain from PDAs just like the rest of us (though, admitted, teenagers often have trouble controlling that ability), and they have the ability to behave themselves when a democratic vote doesn't go the way they want. They have the ability to keep their private lives in their own bedrooms, the way most of the rest of us do, or to refrain altogether, the way many of us unmarried heterosexuals do. The feelings are not a choice, but the behavior is.

I'm Pro Prop 8... | 9:32 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

...but I'm anti ignorant LDS people commenting on articles and making the rest of us look bad.

Next time you want to act like you know the Church's stance on something, maybe you should actually be aware of it. If you read this transcript, an interview with Elder Dallin H. Oaks, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church, and Elder Lance B. Wickman, a member of the Seventy, hopefully you'll be able to make some charitable comments and quit embarrassing me with your intolerant ignorance.

Audacity Defined | 9:36 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

You want the LDS church's help?

How about calling off your attack dogs that are busy marching, protesting, screaming, yelling, verbally and physically intimidating peace loving people while you continually vandalize our churches and temples.....

My!, such a pleasant bunch of people you are!

YouSaidIt | 9:37 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Choice?, your comment is reflective of a certain arrogance I see among straight religionists. You suggest that you currently "refrain" altogether", but of course, you still have the solace of knowing that should your situation change, you can establish a legal, recognized union, one which your religion & community will approve of. You can at least hope for a lifetime of companionship and love, if not now then sometime future.

YouSaidIt | 9:46 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Choice?, You suggest that you currently "refrain" altogether", but of course, you still have the solace of knowing that should your situation change, you can establish a legal, recognized union, one which your religion & community will approve of.. You can at least hope for a lifetime of companionship and love, if not now then sometime future. But you would deny that hope to others.

K.I.S.S. | 9:57 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

To all those that want proof from the Bible, whats the point? You don't believe or understand anyway.

In the NT it says that we "should not cast our pearls before swine" and I see why.
Some things are so simple and basic its just commonsense. So it is with this issue.

In the beginning God created the earth (for mankind), he then created man, then woman. This was for the purpose of Families. It really is that simple.

We as mankind seem to mess things up and think we know it all. We are selfish. We want it our way. Satan is an enemy to God and wants to destroy what God created. We are the ones who CHOOSE which way we go. Follow Gods plan, or go with option B (Satans) Remember, its simple! Homosexuality perverts the plan.

As for those that keep asking for tolerance, Why?
Tolerance is just a hop, skip, and a jump to acceptance of the behavior.

BE KIND TO OTHERS, ABSOLUTELY!
Put up with deviance, Never.

Roger Carrier | 10:01 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

If you oppose gay marriage, then at least be open minded enough to watch the Keith Olberman video on the internet (Countdown with Keith Olberman). Thanks, Roger

re: Carter | 10:03 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

I am going to try to say this in the most unjudgemental way I can right now............ nope didn't come up with anything. That was an ultra loozy comment and I don't even live in Utah! Talk about being judgemental !!!! I think it is called hyprcrite! Christ also taught us to love the sinner but NOT the sin (it would seem that you somehow forgot that one). He also gave us commmandments that he expected us to obey. We are not FORCING anyone. Have you heard of someone putting a gun to someones head to make them do something - because I haven't. What you want is for us to be doormates and lay down and give up our RIGHTS and let them walk all over us - Well not thanks! God gave us a Prophet and individual inspiration and I am SMART enough to use them along with the Ensign. I don't think it would hurt you any to read it yourself for that matter. You are not someone that I will ever take serious in these comments because you have NOTHING beneficial to say!

hev | 10:07 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Honest question for LDS:

The Savior provided a free gift - immortality - to all who have lived, when the body and spirit will reunite and live forever. Reference John 3:16.

Eternal life, which brings eternal increase, is predicated upon the the acceptance and application of the fullness of the Gospel and its ordinances. This must be earned by our works during mortality.

A man and woman, sealed together, can be together for eternity. If wife #1 dies, a man may remarry and be sealed to another woman (not while #1 is alive). This sealing is as valid as the first sealing. A woman may not be sealed to two men. If her husband died she may remarry, but not be sealed to #2. All sealings are eternaland children born of an eternal union belong to those parents.

The LDS church turns no one away - even gays. People, however, congregate among those with whom they share beliefs...my one daughter stopped attending due to her own discomfort. The other is struggling but feels loved through her struggles. It is a personal journey for each of us in our daily lives, whatever our struggles.

God bless - hope this helps some!

Re: Jesus against gays? | 10:12 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

"There is NOTHING in the bible about gays. I'm sure there is in the book of mormon, but that's is a more recent text...The bible came first, and it is neutral on the matter of gays."

Actually, there's nothing at all in the Book of Mormon about homosexuality, unless you consider it to fall under the blanket of the law of chastity, which most of us do.

The Bible, however, is a completely different story.

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is an abomination."

"And if a man lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination..."

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; [list of various sins that fall under the category of unrighteousness] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

This is just a small portion of verses, but you get the idea. There's loads in the Bible against homosexuality.

To "pro 8" @ 9:32 | 10:26 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Great reference to the interview with Elder Oaks and Elder Wickman, should be required reading for any one, pro or con, who wish to comment on this subject.

If God is the ultimate law... | 10:45 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Why not let him sort it out later? Why not let these people have their "free agency"?

Who are you to tell other people what is the morally right way to live their lives? Get your own affairs in order, and if you are right then God will reward you in the afterlife.

J | 10:49 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

this whole prop 8 thing is gay

Completely Amazed | 10:49 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

I expected the Mormon church to be more tolerant of alternative lifestyles.

All i remember hearing when i was growing up Mormon was how my ancestors were persecuted. they were tarred and feathered, homes burned, and forced to leave their homes in Nauvoo because "society" didn't accept their polygamist lifestyle. Society couldn't accept that it was of God even though it was practiced in the old testament.

Give me a break. You're no different than the intolerant society of the 19th century that brought you to Utah. Now you're doing the tarring and feathering.

Bet our ancestors are proud. Oh yeah!

alanincalif | 10:55 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

So all of you who think that being gay is just some choice, would you like a guy that is gay to marry your daughter and see if he can become straight?

You see, that was me. I grew up in the Church. I did everything God asked me to do. I only prayed that I would quit having these feelings for guys. So I went on a mission to New Zealand. I loved it, and was one of the top baptizers in my mission. But these feelings did not change. So I thought if I only get married, somehow I would become straight. But nothing changes. And deep inside I knew it was all a lie. I have 6 children that I love dearly. I love the Church. But I am still gay. I knew I would have to admit it one day, but I waited until my children graduated from Highschool. I just did not want to be a weekend father. My marriage ended in divorce, I hurt those that I loved. But it was the right thing for me. Choice? Do you want this to happen to your daughters?

Dogs are superior to Cats | 11:01 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Religion is a choice and there is no proof that it is true. Religious people want to force their morals and beliefs on others. Mormons are not looking for tolerance. They are on a very insidious quest to force their beliefs on dead people(baptism of Jews)even if people don't want to be baptized. They want the rest of the world to believe that their beliefs are more important to individual choice to decide if they want to join the "gospel". Many people believe the practice of baptizing the dead into the Mormon church is morally wrong. Hopefully someday all other churches won't ignore the Constitution and decided to take away the right for Mormons to choose to believe on they wish. Remember Religion is a choice. I am sure if the other Christian sects had a choice they would vote to ban Mormonism. How about we bring your choice up for a vote?

KINDERGARTEN RUMOR? | 11:13 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

What rumor? I just googled what the poster said to: kindergarten gay hayward california.

Looks like their are several links to news reports about a kindergarten teacher having her students sign a pledge card regarding lesbians, gays, bisexual and transgenders(LGBT).

Are you saying the reports are not true? The report gave the teachers name and that she obtained the pledge cards from a local LGBT group.

Why on earth is a KINDERGARTEN teacher having her 5 YEAR OLD STUDENTS sign cards with words they don't even understand? How would you like to explain to your FIVE YEAR OLD what lesbian or homosexual, let alone transgender or bisexual means????

Indoctrination is the only plausable explanation I can come up with.

This is WRONG on so many levels. How does someone like this teacher even get a job? Does she really believe she has the children's best interests at heart?

DOES SHE BELIEVE SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO DO THIS???

If the tables were turned (having children sign a card supporting traditional marriage) she would have lost her job before she could blink.

CHILD ABUSE.

Somebody call Child Protective Services.

to alan @ 10:55pm | 11:30 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Read the interview Referenced from Elder Oaks and Elder Wickman, it addresses your point.

Alanincalif | 11:34 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Ophelia, I was so touched by the love you have for your gay child. It is truly Christlike to love him still. I wish I could have a loving family like that. Most of my friends in the church ended up not being my friends. My dad and brothers and sisters really won't have much to do with me. I totally understand. It took me a long time to deal with having ssa. Interestingly, my ex wife and I are still friends and still love each other. My children are still close to me and we love spending time together.

I have to tell you I have met so many x Mormons that are dealing with being gay. Most of us still love the Church and wish we could be a part of it. But as you can see from all of the posts above, Mormons are not the kindest people when they find out you are gay. I always remember a talk I heard once. The speaker said, what we need is more Christians to be more Christ like, More Muslims to be more Mohammed like, More Buddhists to be more Buddha like.

to dogs/cats @ 11:01pm | 11:44 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

LDS people in no way, shape, or form wish to force anyone to do anything. It's against what we believe. We are however for traditional families. Plain and simple.

You are correct about religion being a choice. Morals are a choice. We all get to struggle each day to make good and wise choices.

I'm sure there are those who would vote "mormons" away, What else is new. There will always be those that don't want to hear the truth, it would mean that they would have to be acountable.

Have a great day and good luck with your choices.

re kindgarten rumor | 11:47 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

you're only making yourself look even stupider. the facts are out there for anyone who has a high enough iq to google kindergarten, gay pledge, hayward california. it isn't being blown out of proportion. TRUTH IS TRUTH, WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

to alanincalif | 11:49 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

thank you for sharing your story. sometimes you have to do what you know in your heart is right even if society and your religion of birth tells you otherwise. God knows your heart.

btw, 20 yrs ago my 2nd cousin came out and his family totally disowned him. he was barely allowed to speak at his father's funeral. at the time my cousin was a professor at BYU and was married with 7 kids. his family was not kind when he came out. i remember my mothers harsh words toward him. they were quite prominent too--my uncle (his father) wrote the trial of the stick of joseph.

so i've seen first hand how Mormons treat gay people. not much has changed in 20 yrs.

RE: Completely Amazed@10:49 | 11:58 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

I must have really missed something, Amazed, but I didn't see any tar OR feathers at the ballot box on Election Day. Just people of all faiths, ethnicities, and persuasions voting their conscience. I'm sure glad the kind, tolerant, anti-hate-speech people screaming outside the temple didn't have tar or feathers, though, ya know what I mean? But THAT group of protesters certainly opened my eyes as to what this fuss really IS all about--and they showed me EXACTLY how much they deserve to be married, too! So it's been an eye-opening experience all around. I hope and pray your eyes will be opened as well. Isaiah 5:20. Best wishes to you!

Point is.... | 12:21 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

I have a high school diploma. My job at the quickie mart earns me $20k a year. Why shouldn't I make just as much as a Stanford PhD? God made me with the brain-power that I have so why do bigots not hire me as an M.D. or pay me 10X what I make today? It's not fair. Making me an M.D. wouldn't hurt other M.D.'s. Paying me $200k a year doesn't lessen your income. I should have just as much right to be an M.D. and earn the corresponding income as anyone else. God made me this way so those who disagree must be educational fanatics. I want to be an M.D. but I was born without the ability to earn the degree. A high school diploma should be good enough. If you don't hire me as an M.D. I'm gonna go out and slash the tires of every teacher in the state.

CHOICE?? | 12:21 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

The Church teachings require an unmarried person to refrain from sex -- no excuses! What is the difference between that requirement and one which requires a gay person to refrain from sex with someone of the same sex -- nothing! Sex is allow between a man and a woman. Every other sex act is a moral violation -- plan and simple. So is the sexual urge so much greater for gays? Or is the sex act more permissible between gays than among hetersexuals? The gay argument that "they couldn't resist the urge" any longer is not any more justified that a 35 year old unmarried man having sex with a woman and justifying it because they "just couldn't resist the urge." Gays try to make an immoral act seem virtuous by declaring such non sense statements that "I couldn't hide the true me any longer." That is about as justified as a non married straight man saying, "I decided to let the true immoral me out of the closit and commit fornication -- aren't I great because I am honest with myself." The gay logic is designed to cover up immorality.

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