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Utah Jewish leader wants to keep talks going about LDS baptisms

What does Michel hope to accomplish by cutting off dialogue? He can't sue the LDS Church into conformance--if he stops talking, he has lost.

The only thing I don't understand is, Why does it matter if you don't believe in it anyway?

"The lives and souls of six million innocent people are deeply sacred to us,...Everything was stolen from them � their life and their future...They died because they were Jewish,...and for that reason their memories need to be respected."

Many people die for many different reasons but that doesn't mean that they deserve any more respect than others who died for other reasons. Some died because they were black, others because they were white, and others simply because they were female. It's an act of discrimination to give more respect to Jewish victims of the holocaust than the many others who died because of their political, religious, or moral beliefs. Or worst because of the color of their skin or their gender.

"He likens the baptisms to the violation Mormons would feel if someone broke into an LDS temple."

Mormons recognize the sacredness of the Temple but I suspect that most of us would not be more outraged at the violation of our private property than its religious significance since the presence of non-Mormons in the Temple doesn't desecrate the Temple anymore than the unworthy entering the House of the Lord desecrates it. Fake recommends get people in all the time.

As far as I can see, either the Mormons are deluded and have no
power to coerce God to change the eternal destination of anyone
who has passed on, or, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints have exactly what they claim, power granted by the
Almighty to offer a blessing of inestimable value to those who
have passed on.

Either way I don't think your metaphor works.

Tom Kimpton.

Perhaps, the Jews ought to stop playing victim,

and realize other religions have legitimate and sacred intentions and purposes which they believe are necessary for the salvation of the dead.

Do they believe God would forget the dead, and not have mercy on those who never had the opportunity in this life to hear and accept the gospel?

of continued talks when the Church will do whatever it wants anyway?

It is important because it gives validity to Holocaust deniers. You enter a Jewish name into your database as Mormon and you alter history especially if you add 100 years into the future.

How would you have felt if I donated money to fight proposition 8 and wrote the donations were from Joseph Smith, Jr., Brigham Young, Emma Smith, Gordon B. Hinckley?

davidutefan,

"The only thing I don't understand is, Why does it matter if you don't believe in it anyway?"

It doesn't. There are many things I, as a Mormon, don't believe but I don't go out of my way to get those who I disagree with to stop.

I don't agree with Jews sects who believe that it's wrong to speak the name of God and I don't intend to stop using his name. I'm not going to write God as "G-d" just to please the Jewish population. I don't wish to offend them by my choice but I do not accept that they can dictate to me what my beliefs should be or how I choose to practice my religion.

This is no different. The Church has done everything it can to respect the beliefs of this organization and to honor their wishes but the Church is doing its due diligence.

The Church, itself, doesn't perform these ordinances and when it finds the names of victims of the Jewish holocaust that were submitted by individual members it removes the names. This is all the respect that this group should be shown.

No more and no less.

I am writing to acknowlege that William Tumpowsky is a great man.

He is right.

More can be solved through positive dialogue, than through lines in the sand, as he has stated.

Good job in seeing the value in postitive relationships.


William Tumpowsky is a great Utahn, a great man, and an asset to the state.

His words are powerful, and implications very postitive.

If the LDS Church leaders have no problem avoiding baptisms on behalf of holocaust victims, I don't see how church members can have any objections either. Let's be good neighbors to a people whose history of mistreatment and suffering stretches back much farther than ours.

Why does the article end there? Does it seem like something is missing to anyone else? Why does he liken it to someone breaking into an LDS Temple?

Doug S,

"What does Michel hope to accomplish by cutting off dialogue? He can't sue the LDS Church into conformance--if he stops talking, he has lost."

He's throwing a temper tantrum because he wants the Church to cave in to his unreasonable demands. The Church is doing what it should do which is:

1) don't, as an organization, perform Temple work for the victims of the Holocaust; and,

2) actively search for names of holocaust victims which were inappropriately submitted by members of the Church and remove the names.

If he expects the Church to do more he's being unreasonable and the Church should refuse to cave into these demands. If he refuses to show the Church the respect that we are due then that is his problem and not ours.

We have done everything, within reason, to respect the beliefs of this organization but we will not let anyone dictate to us what our beliefs should be or how we choose to practice our religion.

It's important to remember that victims of the holocaust are not alone and that many others, including Mormons, have endure persecution and have been killed for their beliefs and who they are.

Okay, this guy had my attention until he compared Baptisms for the Dead to breaking into an LDS temple. Come on! Let's at least try to be somewhat precise in our analogies. Comparing a process that takes a name said in a prayer you will never hear, by a guy you'll never meet, in a place you'll never be of a person who is long since deceased is NOT comparable to someone breaking into private property.

I want to understand where the Jewish community is coming from on this and I want to be emphathetic, but over-the-top statements like this one, designed to incite emotion, do little to help the situation.

I think it's undue sensitivity. This guy says otherwise. I will believe him and I think the church is doing the right thing to try to accommodate him. But let's not overstate the case in order to dramatize the situation and inflame emotion.

i don't even want to comment on this article. it seems so pointless. It is obvious that the church has gone to great lengths to accomodate the wishes of this jewish organization.

Asking to respect the dead is not playing victim. Whatever sacred intentions for the dead, it's not the place of the LDS people to push their religon on everyone. I realize the LDS want their religous rights respected, that being said the jewish people that died (some of them because they wouldn't renounce their beliefs and convert to Christianity) would probably find it extremely disrespectful that their choice to be Jewish even if it meant death weren't respected. Your rights don't trump theirs and vice versa. Have some respect. Yet another case of the mormons thinking they're the holiest people on earth. Well guess what you're not. Ever heard of Mountain meadows massacre? You're not the only persecuted people out there...

look at it from their perspective- your father died for his beliefs, then somebody comes along and declares him to be a different religion, with no input from you, because they're being "helpful"?

How angry would you Mormons be if they posthumously baptized Brigham Young or Joseph Smith as a Jew? Just because *you* think you're right doesn't give you the right to force your beliefs on the rest of us, alive or dead. It's called the First Amendment, and your entire church owes its existence to it, so maybe you should give it a bit more respect.

I think this is foolishness on the part of the Jewish people that want to stop the baptisms. None of us have the exact knowledge of salvation but all religions have their own beliefs about it, and what it takes to get salvation in the here after. If someone offered me a blessing I would be glad to take it. I think the living Jewish people should be glad that the Mormons care enough to bestow blessing on their dead

I still am waiting for the various Jewish spokesmen to admit they are ok with Latter-day Saints doing temple work for their own ancestors. It often seems that they want to ban all temple work done for Jews.
They do not understand how hurtful it is to people who have Jewish ancestors to be specially picked out for particular monitoring of their activity.

The truth,

"Perhaps, the Jews ought to stop playing victim,"

It would be easy for almost any group of people to play the victim since most, if not all groups, have suffered persecution, and died for their beliefs.

Let's not forget the Inquisition where many were called on to renounce their beliefs or face death. Let's not forget the Mormons who were driven from state to state, and watched as the Prophet and his brother was martyred.

Let's not forget blacks who endured slavery, and then endured beatings, and even death during the civil rights movement.

"and realize other religions have legitimate and sacred intentions and purposes which they believe are necessary for the salvation of the dead."

Everyone has the right to their beliefs, we should respect the beliefs of the Jews to the best of our ability, and its only fair for them to respect our beliefs as well.

The Church has gone out of its way to respect their beliefs. Now it is their turn. If they can't do that then they don't deserve anymore respect than we are already giving them. Which is to not deliberately do the work and remove names done by mistake.

I guess a better analogy would be to honor the memory of Christ by converting to Islam. The sacrifice of the Savior must be respected for what it is. If a person died b/c of race or gender the same argument would not necessarily apply. I can see his point. Whether or not I agree with his sentiment.