Deseret News | Reader comments: LDS chapels in Davis, Weber damaged in vandalism spree

Reader comments
LDS chapels in Davis, Weber damaged in vandalism spree

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non member | 12:49 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

just leave the sacred alone , why does one have to follow in the steps of persecution just because they feel persecuted. just peace out.

get cameras | 1:17 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

If the problem gets to out of hand, start filiming the complete outdoors of the churches and their parking lots.

Anonymous | 1:21 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

how come noone is doing this to the other churches and groups that supported prop 8?
also a possiblity that this is just punks doing it for fun(??) cause they think they can get away with it

Comments continue below

Tom | 2:06 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

I'm not convinced this has anything to do with Proposition 8.

Chapels get vandalized somewhere all the time, and the church has never not had critics, so why is the BB gun suddenly a result of prop 8?

Observation | 2:22 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Seems like "doing unto others" is coming home. Not condoning it, just stating a fact.

jday | 2:27 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

I agree with Tom. These things come and go, it seems like it's been a few years since the last string of vandalism.

Also, the Catholic church has been catching a lot of flak for their role in the Prop. 8 mess, so it's not just our church.

observation | 2:36 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

What in the world is that kind of comment?? "Doing unto others". Whose windows have we shot out lately? And don't tell me this is retaliation from prop 8. What's next? We have to patrol our property to prevent vandalism. I'll be the first to volunteer.

To Observation | 2:37 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Doing unto others is coming home? I don't remember reading anything about Mormons using BB guns on anything.

Not a hate crime? | 2:38 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

How is this not a hate crime? Maybe "hate crimes" are defined to be crimes against politically correct people or groups.

Surely whoever vandalizes our churches has a certain amount of hate, enough hate at least to destroy our property on purpose.

Incomprehensibly, the police immediately dismiss the possibility of this being a hate crime. Their reaction highlights the absurdity of "hate crime" legislation in the first place. A crime is a crime is a crime, and for most types of crimes, hate is always involved to some degree.

Who knows? | 2:39 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

This may be an anti-Mormon who is just taking an opportunity to do this at a time Mormons are facing severe criticm, or it could be someone who is really enraged about Prop 8, or it could be a pimply 13-year old with a BB gun.

Whatever it is, it's not right. I'm gay, and I'm absolutely furious with the Mormons and have no plans to let this issue go any time soon, but I certainly don't condone destroying glass doors at Mormon churches. It accomplishes nothing. In fact, it's counterproductive because it will just tarnish the 99.9999% of people who engage in debate legally, such as with advocacy, protests, marches, letters, emails, ads, etc.

Crazy for English | 2:45 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Pardon the hyper-sensitive comment, but the word "incidents" (more than one incident) should have been used instead of "incidences" (more than one indicence). I hear/see newspeople using it wrong all the time (most recently Doug Wright on his KSL radio show).

a truism | 2:49 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Judging from the recent dissention amongst Mormons re: same-sex marriage, I think this is the work of other Mormons acting out.
Push something hard enough - and it falls over.

anne | 3:01 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

If its violence against one group of people, doesn't that define hate crime?
It doesn't have to be anything to do with prop 8 to be hate.
Or is it ok to shot our windows out if its 'just' anti-mormon?

The Rock | 3:03 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

If this had happened last January I would have suspected Mike Huckabee. ;)

Let's erase the words 'Hate Crime' from the American vocabulary. Hate crime attempt to punish people for what they believe, not what they do.

All men are permitted to believe anything they choose without fear of government action.

Hate Crimes are McCarthyism in reverse.

Delusional Hate | 3:08 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

It's just ridiculous that the LDS church is getting blamed for Prop 8, if we were that popular about getting things our way Mitt Romney would have been meeting George W today to change over at the white house.
we're not that popular to have been a major factor in Prop 8, if it was anyone it was most likely the catholics or the other christians who were the key factors in Prop 8.

LDS Member | 3:13 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Re: Who Knows? I wish all people in your situation acted with class like you. We all have the right to protest, etc..., but vandalizing and stuff like that is wrong. As for the Mormon side, we have idiots that make the rest of us look bad too. I fully support the LDS church and their decision, but I also understand why many people are upset. I have several gay friends that I care about, but I simply just don't like what they practice. Our church has had a stance on it since I can remember.

In AZ | 3:18 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Our Chapel was broken into last spring on a Fast Sunday evening by thieves looking for cash from tithing payments. I guess everyone doesn't know that tithings are deposited that same day and most of which are paid in personal checks. As far as this BB gun incident....whoever did it will someday realize what they did was wrong and will ask for forgiveness.

Let just drop the hate. | 3:31 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Don't automatically classify this as a hate crime. Most of the pro gay community is doing nothing more than the Mormons did. They are writing letters, investing their personal time and money trying to reverse the direction of the vote went in California. Letï¿½s just hope the Mormons (Catholics, ect) are more forgiving of these efforts than the gay community has been.

Votes Count | 3:41 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

What is strange Prop 8 passed by "Votes" If we are going to RECOUNT Votes we need to start with the Presidential race. Did we VOTE for a reason or not ? How about we tell President elect and his family votes DO NOT count, SORRY.We are going to start from square one. VOTES do count, here we are. It was not just the Mormons or Catholics or Jews that Voted we are Human beings.. Votes count!!! We need to live as one and follow the law of the LAND. That is how it is.

You all are so nuts | 3:55 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Vandalism of LDS churches happens all the time and usually turns out to be disgruntled teens belonging to the congregations.

Give the whole prop 8 thing a rest. Sheesh.

Anonymous | 4:32 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Uh-Oh!
Looks like there is trouble and dissension in Pleasantville.

Kevin | 5:23 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Regardless of who or why people are vandalizing, please keep in mind they represent no one but themselves. That goes for protesters too.

one thing for sure.... | 5:53 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

it's NOT a LOVE crime !

Hate crimes? | 6:19 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Is it just me or is anyone else questioning the validity of the words "hate" and "crime" together? I mean, seriously, isn't that redundancy? Is there such a thing as "love crime" when it comes to vandalism? I am totally lost as to how any crime couldn't, and shouldn't, fit into the catagory of a "hate crime". Do you generally commit crimes against those you love and care for? Is it really necessary to spend the extra energy thinking about if someone really hated the person they just committed a crime against? I guess I'm a living a little too much in the past when common sense used to play a part. Now we don't just have to establish motive in a crime, we have to establish a mindthough behind the motive. No wonder we're losing millions every year in the courtrooms. Sheesh, our society needs a serious gut-check on where it's going and how it has gotten this far.

Don't be afraid of these thugs | 6:23 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

observation,

"What in the world is that kind of comment?? "Doing unto others". Whose windows have we shot out lately?"

We didn't shoot out anyone's windows instead our only crime as members of the Church is participating in the democratic process and donating to causes we support. These bigoted tyrants don't care about that and are intent on intimidating the Church and the members of the Church. These acts of violence were not called for, nor was vandalizing the Los Angeles Temple.

"And don't tell me this is retaliation from prop 8. What's next? We have to patrol our property to prevent vandalism. I'll be the first to volunteer."

These violent extremists see it as a form of retaliation because they are thugs, tyrants, and bigots who feel they have a right to marry and force the majority to rewrite a statute. They do not and the majority should not be afraid. If they keep this up we should prosecute them to the fullest extant of the law and then they will learn that the majority will not let a terrorist minority threaten it or subvert the democratic process or violate our Constitutional rights.

Who done it? | 6:55 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Vandalism to churches happens often. This string of events creates a possiblility but we are not to judge.
I am greatful for the messeges of the first presidency who teach us to love and be kind to all people. I wish these people who are protesting would see the love of our leaders instead of them of hate.
But few will and we must show an example to them.
I support the leaders of the church and believe marriage is made for a man and a woman.
I know gay people who have a sense of respect and would be ashamed and are probably embarrased by the actions of the protesters who create fear by their hostile and angry behavior. They are to blame for all the problems of homophobia. There are many extremists out there and it is very wrong. But to show hate towards them does nothing but make matters worse.
May justice be brought to the vandals in this life or the next.
I'm not going to worry myself sick over who did it.

Anonymous | 6:56 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

I agree with "You all are so nuts". Juan Diego Catholic High School, Blessed Sacrament, & St. John's always has some sort of vandalism throughout the year. I don't believe it's someone out to get the Catholic church. Just a bunch of kids thinking that they're cool.

Duh | 7:07 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Wow has this one been taken out of context. Even the reporting by the news sounds childish. This is just an event that reporters like because it gives them something to create controversy. It sells, look at how many of us are even reading this. Crazy, I know. Individuals have been vandalizing Churches of all kinds for as long as I can remember and I am 45. Nothing more, nothing less. Maybe it was in protest, maybe it wasn't. Unless we catch those responsible, we will never know. This is just a classic example of reporting gone wrong. Using the moment to fuel the fire. Report on facts and leave the speculations out.

@don't be afraid of these thugs | 7:22 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

It sounds like you are the one we should be afraid of, mr. judge and executioner.

Just a Thought | 7:30 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

You Mormons really enjoy being martyrs and victims don't you? Time you got a grip on reality.

Wayne from El Paso | 8:35 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Sick people do sick things. This is typical liberal reaction to things. The election is over, the family won. Liberals feel the need to punish the winners and when they loose, they expect everyone else to come over to their view when they win. These truly are the last days.

@just a thought 7:30 | 8:44 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

I expect this from a so called (progressive)free thinking hypocrite. Here's the spin: If a Mormon or anybody else that doesn't agree with us says hey, this is outrageous or unfair, we just say: you can't handle the heat or you are just whiners and that will shut them up!

FairMindedReader | 8:46 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

These are hate crimes against a religion that has been persecuted for over a century and a half. Every since Prop 8 passed and militant homosexual rights groups took to the street -- there have been over 50 cases of vandalism in California and Utah - and additionally the vandalism of three Temples, for a total of 53 separate acts of vandalism.

Prior to the passage of Prop 8 -- there was exactly 2 cases of vandalism in California on LDS chapels, and no cases of vandalism on LDS Temples, in the previous 30 days.

The only rational conclusion that can be drawn (especially when the Temples were vandalized during gay right's marches by members of the march) from all of these cases of vandalism is that those who scream for tolerance, open discussion, and Constitutional rights, are themselves the most intolerant of others, the greatest intimdators and offenders of free speech, and the poster children of discrimination against another person's Constitutional rights.

Clare | 8:49 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

I was sealed in the Los Angeles temple to my parents and married in the Salt Lake temple. Now my church windows have been shot at here in Layton. I kinda feel a little bit like a victim. I don't know if this is connected with the temple stuff, but it sure is not making me happy. I think looking at the windows at my church is definitely reality. I truly hope that these things are not connected.

CougarKeith | 8:55 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

We (Mormons) shouldn't throw stones, acuse "Gays" or anyone else, it will catch up to them (whoever "Them" is/are"). Just be still and know that God is, and it will all be taken care of, relax.

Just a Thought? | 9:03 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

I think some people like to be critical of mormons any chance they can get.

Re: Just a Thought | 9:08 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Regardless of any situation that may be occurring, attacking a place of worship has no place in our nation. Members of the LDS church don't enjoy being martyrs. We enjoy living our lives, doing what we believe, and defending our beliefs.

gay utahn | 9:16 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Oh so now hate crimes are legitimate? What happenned to years of failed hate crime legislation on capitol hill. But if it's a gay bashing it doesn't deserve any special sigificance.

Marcelo Brazil | 9:44 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

It's a relief the fact I pratice a normal marriage, and I have no needs to push anyone to accept my type of union ! Even using vandalism to just give weight to my opinion, just "to be heard" !

Seattle Guy | 9:47 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

RE:'Just a Thought' maybe you need a grip on reality.
Fact:
1.LDS Churches are getting vandalized.
2. LDS Church and most members were in support of porp. 8.
3. Gays and other are protesting at LDS Temples and are about ready to riot.
4. LDS Chruch is blamed for prop. 8 when 2% of the voters were LDS.
5. Anti-Mormons twist and lie about our doctrine daily.

Again, 'Time YOU get a grip on reality.'

A little humor | 9:53 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

I was PFR in our stake a couple of years ago and got a panic call that one of our buildings was tagged with gang graffiti in the form on "pitchforks" spray painted all over the parking lot.
It turned out to be JULIE markings to denote utility lines under the pavement in preparation for some digging!
The Church is right not to point fingers here. Only some hyper-posters are making that connection.
It is not without some logic, but we must remember there is no substantiation at this point.

CA Prop. 8 supporter | 10:19 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

A church in Sacramento was vandalized. "NO on 8" was spray painted all over the church.. I wouldn't be surprised if this is related. You need to keep your eyes open.

I had six of my YES on 8 yard signs stolen. This group of people who accuses us of being intolerant are the most intolerant. They are not accepting of the will of the voters. This is just the tip of the iceberg. They feel like they've only lost a minor skirmish in World War 4.

To: Crazy for English | 10:36 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Thank goodness I'm not the only one. While we're at it, can I make a plea for English speakers of the world to please stop using the word "irregardless?" It makes no sense.

Louise | 10:58 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

From what I understand over 70% of the funding for Prop 8 came from church members. That is what is fueling this.

I feel the church would be more sympathetic with government intervention of marriage considering Church history. Although I disagreed with the stance the Church took on Prop 8, I also disagree with the violent retaliation.

We live in a country where people are free to protest, but that does not mean they can destroy the property of others.

so.... | 11:04 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008

Who is intolerant? If this was done due to the passing of proposition 8, people really need to get a grip on things. It doesn't matter how many windows they shoot out, or any other kind of vandalism they do. Ultimately, it comes down to votes, and TWICE now California (one of the most liberal states in the Union) has voted for defending the traditional family and traditional marriage. If you are going to fight proposition 8, alteast do something constructive!

Paul | 2:53 a.m. Nov. 11, 2008

Proposition 8 passed for a reason, and I am not linking to this crime, our people have endured much more than a few bb bullets, look into the history of the mormon pioneers and how much adversity they endured. This just makes the fight between good and evil more real, we must try our best in our callings and strive to be better.

Lucy | 3:31 a.m. Nov. 11, 2008

I am so sorry that the church is having to go through this, but we have a right to stand on the corner and make our voices heard. I am grateful that the members of the church made a stand on how they felt in California. We have bent over backwards in our "tolerance" of others but we do have a right to raise our voices when we feel the need is there.

It doesn't do the gay community any good to show all of this intolerance when things don't go their way. Their extremist are acting like spoiled children... No more vandalism please.

Robin H | 4:10 a.m. Nov. 11, 2008

The police are quick to basically say this is not a hate crime. How do they know it is NOT a hate crime?

RR | 5:26 a.m. Nov. 11, 2008

The church has never been popular in the world's eyes. Those even in the church who decide they don't like it can leave, and they are. There are events that are separating the faithful from the unfaithful. This life is a test, and not everyone can handle it.

I'm so proud the church stands up for such a moral issue as marriage, and I'll gladly suffer persecution because of it. I'm not afraid of anyone. At least they attack dead things instead of living.

InAZ | 7:11 a.m. Nov. 11, 2008

To 'you are all so nuts'.......where do you get your facts when you say "Vandalism of LDS churches happens all the time and usually turns out to be disgruntled teens belonging to the congregations"? Nice try but your obviously a troll.

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