Reader comments
Prop. 8 protest draws thousands in Salt Lake City
1,245 comments | Read story
I want my rights too | 5:11 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I am left handed, bald and over weight. God made me this way! I want special
rights! If you don't pass laws that I can get special rights, I will march
and carry signs around your church!
DanO | 5:12 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I hope the First Presidency reads the comments of its membership on these
boards. That message of not being contentious is really setting in so well.
Comments continue below
Annonymous | 5:12 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The amount of ignorance in these comments is truly mind-blowing. The majority of
the people who posted comments about this article have argued that it is unfair
for proponents of gay marriage to target the LDS church for their support of
Prop 8, because many other religions, races, etc. also worked in favor of Prop
8.
What you all are failing to realize is that members of the LDS church contributed an estimated $20 million dollars to the Yes on 8 campaign - that is more than half of the total amount of money received by the campaign. Acegrace posted, "Are these protesters not aware that the LDS were only 1% of the population of California..." Yes, the protesters are aware that members of the LDS church are only 1% of the California population. That is precisely whey the LDS chuch is being protested against. We are angry that members of the LDS church contributed over 1/2 of the money to Yes on 8 but make up such a small percentage of Californians. When you look at the numbers and the facts, it's quite easy to see why the LDS church has become the target of gay marriage supporters.
What you all are failing to realize is that members of the LDS church contributed an estimated $20 million dollars to the Yes on 8 campaign - that is more than half of the total amount of money received by the campaign. Acegrace posted, "Are these protesters not aware that the LDS were only 1% of the population of California..." Yes, the protesters are aware that members of the LDS church are only 1% of the California population. That is precisely whey the LDS chuch is being protested against. We are angry that members of the LDS church contributed over 1/2 of the money to Yes on 8 but make up such a small percentage of Californians. When you look at the numbers and the facts, it's quite easy to see why the LDS church has become the target of gay marriage supporters.
Derick | 5:13 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
It�s a human rights issue; no one should be treated
differently under the law. That�s called discrimination.
NO church should function as a political action group as the mormons have done.
. I wish I could come and protest!
kevin | 5:13 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Oh it's a choice now?
To "sad" | 5:14 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
"God" has nothing to do with this. This is about CIVIL marriage and
equality before the LAW for all citizens of the United States. To say "God
intended it" is like saying Donald Duck intended it.
Let em Protest | 5:15 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I invite controversy. It is the BEST thing to increase membership. The true in
heart will investigate, understand the promptings of the Spirit, and convert.
It has happened over and over again since 1830. The more we are hated, the more
we are in the public eye, the more public curiosity, the more investigation, and
more people are converted.
We saw it in the late 70's and 80's in So Cal, Nationally with the ERA controversy (similar arguements here as well) and when ever we get FREE NATIONAL PRESS.
CHEERS TO THE PROTESTORS!!! Smile and Wave everyone
We saw it in the late 70's and 80's in So Cal, Nationally with the ERA controversy (similar arguements here as well) and when ever we get FREE NATIONAL PRESS.
CHEERS TO THE PROTESTORS!!! Smile and Wave everyone
Boyd | 5:15 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
@ It's not a 'rights' issue:
When Mormon people look for someone to marry, this is often done within the confines of the church, is it not? A lot of Mormon people, particularly here in Utah, only want to date other Mormons.
Isn't being LDS a choice? For further help, since being gay is apparently a choice, would you please tell us when you chose to be straight? If you chose to be LDS, and it's a choice, then choosing to be gay implies that someone had to consciously make that decision. So when did you choose? Because I know I never chose to be gay. It surprised the heck out of me, that's for sure!
When Mormon people look for someone to marry, this is often done within the confines of the church, is it not? A lot of Mormon people, particularly here in Utah, only want to date other Mormons.
Isn't being LDS a choice? For further help, since being gay is apparently a choice, would you please tell us when you chose to be straight? If you chose to be LDS, and it's a choice, then choosing to be gay implies that someone had to consciously make that decision. So when did you choose? Because I know I never chose to be gay. It surprised the heck out of me, that's for sure!
The Church has gone to far! | 5:17 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The Church is upset? PLEASE!!!! There is a CLEAR separation of Church and State
in this country. No "Faith Based Organization" that receives a
"Tax Exempt" status should be making any financial contribution to any
Political or Constitutional cause. Leave the financial donations to the people
actually voting and not the organization that they are blindly following. I hope
to god that we get back to a clear separation of church and state. Without true
separations we are no different that the middle east countries whose governments
will put a woman to death for getting raped and talking about it.. there is a
place for Religion beliefs but when it strips right of people that
don�t subscribe to it.. it�s gone too
far. I�m DISAPOINTED to be a Mormon. The Church should be
ashamed and Start Paying taxes just like I do if it wants to play this way.
We Shall Overcome | 5:17 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I love how you all are trying to make this a religious issue, citing
"God's wishes' and the "prophet's teachings" bla
bla bla. It is not. It is a civil rights issue. Neither God, religion, fairy
tales nor mythology have anything to do with the matter.
March around their houses? Maybe | 5:19 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Doug,
"There is a double-standard for gay people to participate in a free speech rally but then condemn the Church and it's members for doing the same thing by encouraging members to speak up on a matter which goes to the heart of the teachings of the Church - marriage and family."
The Church asked us to participate in the electoral process and vote and speak out on this issue. Those who support same-sex marriage aren't asking these protesters to participate in the electoral process and speak out on the issues instead they are asking them to disrupt our right to worship, and prevent us from worshiping as we see fit. Had Prop. 8 failed the Church would never have asked members to join a protest outside of the ACLU and Churches who opposed Prop. 8.
We respect the right of people to disagree and to peacefully participate in the political process and we would never target those who voted differently than we wanted. This is more than a double standard since we have never done anything like this to them nor would we but maybe we should reconsider that and find out where they worship and live and protest.
"There is a double-standard for gay people to participate in a free speech rally but then condemn the Church and it's members for doing the same thing by encouraging members to speak up on a matter which goes to the heart of the teachings of the Church - marriage and family."
The Church asked us to participate in the electoral process and vote and speak out on this issue. Those who support same-sex marriage aren't asking these protesters to participate in the electoral process and speak out on the issues instead they are asking them to disrupt our right to worship, and prevent us from worshiping as we see fit. Had Prop. 8 failed the Church would never have asked members to join a protest outside of the ACLU and Churches who opposed Prop. 8.
We respect the right of people to disagree and to peacefully participate in the political process and we would never target those who voted differently than we wanted. This is more than a double standard since we have never done anything like this to them nor would we but maybe we should reconsider that and find out where they worship and live and protest.
Stand in Defense | 5:19 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Yes, stand in defense of the LDS. Go downtown now and overwhelm the anti-LDS
protestors with huge numbers of people, and lots of joy and happiness.
Anonymous | 5:19 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The church is not being singled out "for speaking up." It is being
blamed for the sheets of deliberate misinformation that they distributed as part
of their "speaking up" and for the inflammatory untruths they spread
to deliberately mislead people. This was not "speaking up." This was
nothing less than an attempt to enforce LDS doctrine in the California
constitution. And now they are objecting that the thousands of people whose
rights they took away are objecting to it. Tough cookies. You can dish it out
quite well, so be man enough to take the consequences.
Anonymous | 5:19 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
These kinds of discussions are important. And bigotry on either side is
unacceptable. More empathy and understanding would serve us all well. Hateful
words are not Christian in any way, whether calling gays "pathetic"
or mormons "bigots". I am glad to see our democracy is still working
well. Let's just keep it respectful
I would also support the | 5:22 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
church tonight in SLC if I could. Let's show the world that right has
prevailed.
Anonymous | 5:25 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I applaude protets of organized hate.
Fresno California | 5:32 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
We live in the United States of America where the peoples vote counts. The
people of California have spoken and IT IS YES ON PROP 8. And I couldn't be
more proud that it passed. I do not want my kids being taught about same sex
marriage in schools. THat is something that should be taught in the individual
family and not in public schools.
Aaron | 5:34 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The 20 million number is completely misconstrued. When people donated to Prop 8
there was no form you filled out for your religous preference. Where ever that
figure is coming from is completely false.
Anonymous | 5:34 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
You can't vote on minority rights! This is a Supreme Court issue not a
ballot issue! And yes, sometimes bigots are the majority.
To: Just a suggestion | 5:34 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
As a physician (who is gay) I laugh at your presumption that gays to not
contribute to society.
BYU | 5:35 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The stand of truth has been erected� no unhallowed hand can
stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies
may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly,
nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every
clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God
shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is
done�
Fine. Next week is your turn! | 5:35 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Veritas,
"When the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made the decision to become involved in a political question, it became fair game for political protest."
That's fine with me. Post your real name and take a public position on this political issue because then it makes you fair game for political protest.
Any member of the Utah legislature or state, city or county government who attends this rally will find a thousand people marching around their blocks on next Friday. If they take a position on a political issue it makes them and organizations they belong to fair game including their families.
"When any church or religion takes a political position, as opposed to a religious position, it opens itself up to political protest. The Church should bear this in mind the next time it gets involved in political issues."
When any individual or public official takes a political position, as opposed to a personal position, they open themselves up to political protest. Voters should bear this in mind the next time they get involved in political issues because we are coming to your Churches, your places of work and your homes to protest.
"When the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made the decision to become involved in a political question, it became fair game for political protest."
That's fine with me. Post your real name and take a public position on this political issue because then it makes you fair game for political protest.
Any member of the Utah legislature or state, city or county government who attends this rally will find a thousand people marching around their blocks on next Friday. If they take a position on a political issue it makes them and organizations they belong to fair game including their families.
"When any church or religion takes a political position, as opposed to a religious position, it opens itself up to political protest. The Church should bear this in mind the next time it gets involved in political issues."
When any individual or public official takes a political position, as opposed to a personal position, they open themselves up to political protest. Voters should bear this in mind the next time they get involved in political issues because we are coming to your Churches, your places of work and your homes to protest.
Mister | 5:36 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Folks, The tribe has spoken.
The dogs bark | 5:36 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
But the caravan moves on...
California Father | 5:38 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
This would be a good time for the second coming....
Trevor Dowdle | 5:39 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
�We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve
Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim
that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family
is central to the Creator�s plan for the eternal destiny of
His children.
Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.
�We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society� (Ensign, Nov. 1995, 102).
My2Cents,What important reasons were given for such a stand on families? What consequences would come to pass in our society if such marriage was accepted endorsed?
Some, however, have mistakenly asserted that churches should not ever be involved in politics when moral issues are involved. In fact, churches and religious organizations are well within their constitutional rights to speak out and be engaged in the many moral and ethical problems facing society. While the Church does not endorse candidates or platforms, it does reserve the right to speak out on important issues.
Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.
�We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society� (Ensign, Nov. 1995, 102).
My2Cents,What important reasons were given for such a stand on families? What consequences would come to pass in our society if such marriage was accepted endorsed?
Some, however, have mistakenly asserted that churches should not ever be involved in politics when moral issues are involved. In fact, churches and religious organizations are well within their constitutional rights to speak out and be engaged in the many moral and ethical problems facing society. While the Church does not endorse candidates or platforms, it does reserve the right to speak out on important issues.
Which Church | 5:42 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
do you all belong to. Do you belong to the one that thinks it should play the
political game or do you believe this on: "Maintain Freedom of Religion
We Latter-day Saints declare in scripture: "We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others�. We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed [prohibited] in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied."
(Doctrine and Covenants 134:4, 9)
Your own doctrine speaks out against what your church is doing.
We Latter-day Saints declare in scripture: "We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others�. We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed [prohibited] in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied."
(Doctrine and Covenants 134:4, 9)
Your own doctrine speaks out against what your church is doing.
AMoyer | 5:46 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
A lot of comments about how the people are somehow unfit to make decisions that
should be left to legislators. Consider: We live in a representative democracy.
Had the legislature voted no and not allowed the proposition to go to the
people, opponents of Prop 8 would have said, "Your elected representative
voted against this. That's who represents you, who you voted for."
However, in this case, the proposition went TO THE PEOPLE. We don't need to
know how the state legislature would vote in our representative democracy,
because it has gone to the voters themselves. As far as this proposition is
concerned, we know EXACTLY how the majority of voters feel about it, without
asking their state representatives.
Consider also that the turnout was ridiculously high, especially due to the draw of a hotly-contested presidential election. So, a large percentage of eligible voters cast their ballot for Prop 8. I would bet the by-county turnout/vote exceeded the votes in the last election for our representatives.
I have accepted that a majority of people wanted Obama. Please accept that a majority of people want some protection for the tradition of marriage.
Consider also that the turnout was ridiculously high, especially due to the draw of a hotly-contested presidential election. So, a large percentage of eligible voters cast their ballot for Prop 8. I would bet the by-county turnout/vote exceeded the votes in the last election for our representatives.
I have accepted that a majority of people wanted Obama. Please accept that a majority of people want some protection for the tradition of marriage.
Love thy neighbor? | 5:48 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Kudos to those protesting prop 8 in Utah.
I don�t understand how Mormons can be so close-minded and so judgmental towards gay people.
I don�t understand how Mormons can be so close-minded and so judgmental towards gay people.
To Anon | 5:19 | 5:49 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I'm glad to hear you're not singling out the Church.
So, I guess you must be planning some hate-filled demonstrations at the Cathedral of the Madeleine, the First Baptist Church, and the offices of the NAACP and LULAC. After all, there were many more Catholics, Evangelicals, Blacks, and Hispanics, than there were Mormons that voted against Prop 8.
So, I guess you must be planning some hate-filled demonstrations at the Cathedral of the Madeleine, the First Baptist Church, and the offices of the NAACP and LULAC. After all, there were many more Catholics, Evangelicals, Blacks, and Hispanics, than there were Mormons that voted against Prop 8.
Robert R. Weedon | 5:49 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
As a native Californian, I too wish to express our gratitude to the many Saints
of the LDS Church who gave treasure and time to uphold the rational and sacred
institution of marriage. Sadly, for most gays and lesbians, "marriage"
will not solve their problem, just as equality of a "civil union" did
not satisfy their desire to be like the norm of society.One more note, if you
look at the prop 8 results, it was the afro-american voter, turning out out in
record numbers to vote for Obama.These folks voted, almost as a block, in favor
of prop 8 to put it over the top.
As a resident of mid-town Sacramento, I can say folks, we have two very different cultures in our land, a land where "pop culture" now even elects presidents as the office is marketed as a product such as "Rockstar"!
As a resident of mid-town Sacramento, I can say folks, we have two very different cultures in our land, a land where "pop culture" now even elects presidents as the office is marketed as a product such as "Rockstar"!
Is this the start | 5:49 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
of the lds being the most hated people ..well something has to start it ..only
they do have the rigth to vote and that is what is at issue here. not counter
hate! Don't give up the right to vote..many lds service people died for it!
And I'm for the right of all!!
James | 5:51 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Thank you all Californians who supported Proposition 8! While opponents of
Proposition 8 are accusing the LDS church as a villain, exit polls showed that
84% of all people who attend church on a weekly basis voted for Proposition 8.
Think about it. Regularly attending church members of all faiths voted to pass
Proposition 8 to restore the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman.
Demonstrators may have forgotten all that. The people of California have voted
and they voted their faith rather than politics. The opposition has the moral
responsibility to uphold the law.
Aumacoma | 5:52 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Just a note to you that support Prop 8 from a religious perspective. In the
United States of America we have a constitution that keeps government out of the
business of churches and churches out of the business of government (except in
Utah). This ensures religious freedom and freedom from religion. Religious
involvement in this matter is unconsitutional and unAmerican. This is a civil
matter and it has absolutely nothing to do with religion. If any church/religion
believes that marriage is between a man and a women it is your religious right
to believe as such within a church but it is not the right of churches to make
laws based on religious beliefs. That would be a Theocracy not a Democracy that
is America.
Let's oppose tyranny | 5:52 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
To: I would also support the,
"church tonight in SLC if I could. Let's show the world that right has prevailed."
We must defend our rights and stand up for ourselves and if they think they can get away with this they are wrong because there will be members there to see who speaks and next week we will be having a similar march around their places of work, their Church and their homes.
The article states that Representatives Scott McCoy, Christine Johnson and Jackie Biskupski will attend and speak at the rally.
If they do decide to take a public position on this issue we should plan an event for next week where we march around their homes on Friday. If the Church is protested for taking a stand as our representatives on religious and moral matters than the legislators are fair game to be protested for taking as stand as political representatives of those who disagree with us.
Let's show our solidarity and defend our rights against those who would oppress and impose tyranny upon us.
"church tonight in SLC if I could. Let's show the world that right has prevailed."
We must defend our rights and stand up for ourselves and if they think they can get away with this they are wrong because there will be members there to see who speaks and next week we will be having a similar march around their places of work, their Church and their homes.
The article states that Representatives Scott McCoy, Christine Johnson and Jackie Biskupski will attend and speak at the rally.
If they do decide to take a public position on this issue we should plan an event for next week where we march around their homes on Friday. If the Church is protested for taking a stand as our representatives on religious and moral matters than the legislators are fair game to be protested for taking as stand as political representatives of those who disagree with us.
Let's show our solidarity and defend our rights against those who would oppress and impose tyranny upon us.
Minority? | 5:54 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Isn't it the gay community and their supporters picking on the minority in
this case. I think there are a lot more of them than there are Mormons in this
country.
Anonymous | 5:53 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I think the argument that, "the church should use their money on better
thing like starving children in Africa, poverty...etc" is absolutely
ridiculous. The church does just as much, if not more, as any humanitarian
organization world wide.
I feel that they have every right to make a stance on issues like this that affect the world because they are one of the only organizations that produces results when it comes to making the world a better place. They are the only ones who back up what they preach.
America should be greatful that there is an organization like the LDS church that actually has a backbone and stands up for what they believe.
I feel that they have every right to make a stance on issues like this that affect the world because they are one of the only organizations that produces results when it comes to making the world a better place. They are the only ones who back up what they preach.
America should be greatful that there is an organization like the LDS church that actually has a backbone and stands up for what they believe.
Anonymous | 5:53 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Maybe if they had put in this kind of effort during the campaign, they might
have won. Now they are just Johnny-come-lately. A little too late to complain.
Follow the money | 5:54 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Strangely enough, people keep screaming about the money, the money. The LA
times tracked the money that was donated both in support and opposition of Prop.
8. Opponents gathered more money, 2.3 million dollars more, yet still lost the
vote. Maybe this isn't all about who spends the most money?
Justin | 5:55 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I think its funny they are blaming the church for the outcome. There are not
enough members in the state of California to pass something that huge.It proves
that not only do the church members think that it should no become legal, but
also a majority of people in California. All I have to say is have fun
protesting. Its just a waste of time!!
TrevorDowdle | 5:55 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Mosiah 29: 25-27
27 "And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land."
I certainly believe that the church should encourage its members to uplift and support what is good for the society as a whole, encouraging memebers to up hold these values, and share them with others. The same values that have blessed our nation our families and the world for years. Is surely not wrong.
The acceptance of "such (just one example gay marriage) in society will surely lead to grave consequences that would hurt our family and society as a whole.
Of course this all depends on the veracity of the Book Of Mormon. So those of you who can't believe this and are losing your testimony of the church I would encourage you to read it. It will help stay on the right path in these perilous times.
27 "And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land."
I certainly believe that the church should encourage its members to uplift and support what is good for the society as a whole, encouraging memebers to up hold these values, and share them with others. The same values that have blessed our nation our families and the world for years. Is surely not wrong.
The acceptance of "such (just one example gay marriage) in society will surely lead to grave consequences that would hurt our family and society as a whole.
Of course this all depends on the veracity of the Book Of Mormon. So those of you who can't believe this and are losing your testimony of the church I would encourage you to read it. It will help stay on the right path in these perilous times.
Re: Blue | 5:56 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Sounds like you should know better but are rationalizing your actions. It
doesn't matter how loud you speak, what's right is right and
what's true is true. Someday you'll meet you maker and have to
explain. Re-focus on the big picture instead of a few short years here in this
mortal life.
Outside Lookin In | 6:01 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
If the comments on this board are typical of LDS membership in general, I am
even more afraid of them than I was before. This kind of ignorance is downright
scary in the 21st century.
Tax exempt status | 6:01 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I get sick of hearing folks say that the church should lose it's tax exempt
status. IT'S A CHURCH!!! Churches are SUPPOSED to give direction to their
members on moral issues. That's right, I said MORAL issues. If you are
going to tell me that gay marriages are a "right" then the gay
community is arguing that pedophiles and people who are into bestiality have the
same "right". I would love for a gay person to write in here and say
that I'm correct on that. Gays are saying they are born this way. Should we
establish "rights" for rapists and killers? Aren't they born with
the same tendencies towards their actions? It IS a moral issue. Churches are
MORAL teachers, although apparently some churches encourage their members to
"put their money where their mouth is." If my church loses it's
tax status for fighting this gross practice, then I'm ALL FOR IT! I would
be happy to pay more in donations and contributions to fight against these kind
of issues to keep my children away from them. They are thrown into my kids faces
at their young age as it is. I give thanks to a church with standards.
All in | 6:05 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Yeah, I need my rights to. I believe I should be able to legally marry more than
one woman. Not only that, I believe I should be able to marry underage girls
too. You are denying my rights if you don't let me! Oh and why don't
we legalize my cocaine habit too. So quit discriminating against me.
Freedom of speech not a statute | 6:06 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Anonymous,
"You can't vote on minority rights! This is a Supreme Court issue not a ballot issue!
James Madison, a Founding Father, said:
1) "The will of the nation being omnipotent for right, is so for wrong also; and the will of the nation being in the majority, the minority must submit to that danger of oppression as an evil infinitely less than the danger to the whole nation from a will independent of it."
Thomas Jefferson said,
1) "[Bear] always in mind that a nation ceases to be republican only when the will of the majority ceases to be the law."
2) "We are sensible of the duty and expediency of submitting our opinions to the will of the majority, and can wait with patience till they get right if they happen to be at any time wrong."
3) "If the measures which have been pursued are approved by the majority, it is the duty of the minority to acquiesce and conform."
This isn't a Supreme Court issue nor are your rights violated. Rights aren't granted or taken away by the government. Freedom of speech isn't a statute passed by majority unlike marriage so the latter isn't a right.
"You can't vote on minority rights! This is a Supreme Court issue not a ballot issue!
James Madison, a Founding Father, said:
1) "The will of the nation being omnipotent for right, is so for wrong also; and the will of the nation being in the majority, the minority must submit to that danger of oppression as an evil infinitely less than the danger to the whole nation from a will independent of it."
Thomas Jefferson said,
1) "[Bear] always in mind that a nation ceases to be republican only when the will of the majority ceases to be the law."
2) "We are sensible of the duty and expediency of submitting our opinions to the will of the majority, and can wait with patience till they get right if they happen to be at any time wrong."
3) "If the measures which have been pursued are approved by the majority, it is the duty of the minority to acquiesce and conform."
This isn't a Supreme Court issue nor are your rights violated. Rights aren't granted or taken away by the government. Freedom of speech isn't a statute passed by majority unlike marriage so the latter isn't a right.
Vern | 6:07 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Someone said a while ago: "The moral majority is neither. . ." This
makes you wonder - pretty soon, will we be the minority? Then what kind of
protection could we count on from on high. . ?
shawilli | 6:07 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I find it interesting that there are some 750,000 LDS members in California and
some 35 million non mormons in California. The LDS church does not have enough
people to have pushed prop 8 through just by themselves, it seems clear to me
that more than just the LDS church members had a hand in getting prop 8 passed.
I feel that if the people of California had wanted to defeat prop 8 they had
more than enough money and votes to do so, but they did not defeat it, they
passed it instead. I think that is is clear that the majority have spoken and
that the Supreme Court of California should simply let stand the "will of
the people" and let it now become law. I am sad that the LDS church has
become a target of those who have decided to protest the peoples vote.
Shaun Williams
Shaun Williams
801 | 6:08 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
This looks like a test to sort the wheat from the tares from inside the
church.
Those familiar with scriptural precedence will know there are many scenarios just like this. Things will get dark for a time but the other side always loses if we stay faithful.
Look up the Israeli 6-day war. Faithful should not fear being outnumbered.
Those familiar with scriptural precedence will know there are many scenarios just like this. Things will get dark for a time but the other side always loses if we stay faithful.
Look up the Israeli 6-day war. Faithful should not fear being outnumbered.
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
Related content
- Mexican consulate in SLC dies 1:47 p.m.
- eBay fined for selling perfumes 1:46 p.m.
- Debate opens on health care bill 1:44 p.m.
- Man arrested in screwdriver assault 1:42 p.m.
- Police seek man in underwear thefts 1:42 p.m.
- 5 injured in past week near Moab 1:41 p.m.
- Beach dispute heading to high court 1:40 p.m.
- Retrial in paraplegic murder case 1:39 p.m.
- Court hears Vioxx arguments 1:38 p.m.
- High court won't hear speech suit 1:37 p.m.
- Hall mouths off about hate of Utah
888 - Cougars beat Utes in overtime480
- Max Hall issues apology352
- Hall's pain reflects self-betrayal228
- BYU is champion of the state140
- Man trapped in Nutty Putty cave dies120
- Cave to be sealed with body inside116
- Utes won't respond to Hall112
- Hall reprimanded by MWC94
- Rivalry Week is highly profane91
I wanted to tell them not to go. I dropped subtle hints. "My money is on...
When I was a kid, I worshipped my grandpa. He was undoubtedly my hero....
Latest comments
Congratulations to Max and the second place MWC finish. Good Luck on the...
Please, Tina. You want a team with honor to play in your bowl. The Utes are...
Reprimand or not, the score was still 26-23. Go BYU!!!
is class on and off the field, unlike Max Hall.
POOR TENDERED FEELING HYPOCRITICAL UTES: You would be loving it if you had...
As for Max as a QB — he doesn’t seem to do well under real...
In an era of so-called political correctness and sensitivity, Hall shouldn't...
CTR .. choose to RANT .. typical BYU
I agree that sometimes animal experimentation is used too casually. But...
12:14 p.m. This wasn't a "what if" scenario. You sound oblivious to the...
Advertisements
If you are in Salt Lake, go now.