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Prop. 8 protest draws thousands in Salt Lake City
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Re:Dennis Jones | 3:56 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I am sure you are a loving and wonderful human being, however do you believe
that this will go away? The no to prop 8 crowd views this as nothing more than
a civil rights issue. As far as the LDS Church is concerned, does it really
matter if it grows or not? Is that the goal of being LDS, to see how many
people you can get to join? Since the LDS Church is about Love and Hope (in
your words) what part of that is your church showing to the people who are being
judged as immoral in your view. One thing that so many religious people
don't get, is that you believe that what the Bible says is God's
words. How about the people who are not Christian...Buddhists, Hindu's,
Jews etc. The gay activists are actively petitioning to have the LDS
Church's tax exemption taken away, because they have mixed church and state
in this situation. They are fighting for what they believe in. When a church
sends out information having members give time and money for pr0p 8, it has then
become a political entity that will then be treated as a business not a church.
slbison | 3:57 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
why are self righeous mormons in such denial... until something unfair happens
to them?
very sophmoric...
very sophmoric...
Doug | 3:57 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
There is a double-standard for gay people to participate in a free speech rally
but then condemn the Church and it's members for doing the same thing by
encouraging members to speak up on a matter which goes to the heart of the
teachings of the Church - marriage and family. In fact, it was decided the way
it should have been, by the people - not the courts. There was no constitutional
right that gives gays the right to marry. But now there is a consitutional
ammendment defining marriage.
Comments continue below
Elizabeth | 3:57 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Gays and lesbians had much riding on the outcome of Prop 8--a big part of their
humanity, actually. They are angry, hurting and determined to keep working for a
cause they believe to be just. About 160 years ago, a young religion called the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was seen as wacky, wrong-headed,
even evil. Remember persecution?
Try walking in a gay man or lesbian woman's shoes for a couple of hours. Gay people have been dismissed, beaten and arrested for congregating in their own bars. They are marginalized and overlooked in many areas of society.
Member of the LDS Church should, of all people, understand and empathize. You want gays to be all nice and shut up about this vote. They need to vent. It's their right. In another couple of decades younger people will have taken over government spots as well as key spots in the church. Time will soften such hard hearts.
Try walking in a gay man or lesbian woman's shoes for a couple of hours. Gay people have been dismissed, beaten and arrested for congregating in their own bars. They are marginalized and overlooked in many areas of society.
Member of the LDS Church should, of all people, understand and empathize. You want gays to be all nice and shut up about this vote. They need to vent. It's their right. In another couple of decades younger people will have taken over government spots as well as key spots in the church. Time will soften such hard hearts.
anne | 3:57 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
when my children were little and they had temper tantrums the only thing that
consistantly worked was to not react.
I am sure the proper people have thought out plans for dealing with vandalism attempts on church property.
We would be better served to let them do their jobs without our interferance.
The protesters have a legal right to their opinion so long as they don't become violent and destructive. Let follow counsel and not have a hand in escallating bad feelings.
We have dealt with it before. We can do it again. With kindness and restraint.
I am sure the proper people have thought out plans for dealing with vandalism attempts on church property.
We would be better served to let them do their jobs without our interferance.
The protesters have a legal right to their opinion so long as they don't become violent and destructive. Let follow counsel and not have a hand in escallating bad feelings.
We have dealt with it before. We can do it again. With kindness and restraint.
You lost...move on! | 3:57 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
These protesters just crack me up. Why can't they accept the fact that
they lost, and move on? In California they can register as domestic partners
and receive essentially the same rights as married persons.
The California electorate has spoken. They don't want gay marriage! Just like Obama won the election. Those who voted for McCain, such as myself, have to accept the fact that our candidate won't be taking office. You can't win them all. That's life. Enough from the pro-gay marriage contingent! Accept defeat gracefully, be grateful for what you have, and move on.
The California electorate has spoken. They don't want gay marriage! Just like Obama won the election. Those who voted for McCain, such as myself, have to accept the fact that our candidate won't be taking office. You can't win them all. That's life. Enough from the pro-gay marriage contingent! Accept defeat gracefully, be grateful for what you have, and move on.
Anonymous | 3:58 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I can't believe this church supports codifying discrimination.
it has to be the only western religion that supports actively striking out at a subset of the population.
as a Christian, I am utterly offended.
it has to be the only western religion that supports actively striking out at a subset of the population.
as a Christian, I am utterly offended.
me again | 4:00 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Tonight I am going to protest Utah for being in Utah.
for equality, not againgst churc | 4:00 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I for one will be down there tonight. not to protest against the LDS faith but
to show my support for those of the GLBT community. I have no problem with any
religion deciding what they deem to be a marriage for their congregation. But i
as an American cannot sit by while fellow Americans are denied rights that are
given to me. That is why I will be there tonight.
Bob | 4:00 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Why aren't the protests occuring in Watts, Compton, East L.A. or Santa Ana.
It was the Black and Hispanic votes (70%) that helped Prop 8 pass.
Protest | 4:01 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I for one will be at the protest to let the LDS church know that they cannot get
away with such hatred during these times.
The people that have commented before me do not understand democratic process, and they truly do not understand equal rights.
The people that have commented before me do not understand democratic process, and they truly do not understand equal rights.
kyle | 4:01 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
i live in socal and i can tell you that the protesters at the LDS temple were a
disgrace, to put it mildly. They really showed their true colors. Only 24
hours after a campaing where they tried to convince us that gay marriage would
have no impact on religion, they've singled out and slandered a religion
and apparently filed several lawsuits in an attempt to revoke its tax exempt
stauts. All this because members of that church exercised its freedom of speech
and lawfully engaged in the democratic process. I suspect these militant gays
have set their cause back 20 years by their abhorrant behavior!
Lost | 4:01 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
You lost this member.. Enough of the church messing with other people's
right.. It's not even in our state!! Time for the church to do something
positive to right this sinking ship..
jlc | 4:01 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Gays don't want special rights they only want the same rights as everyone
else. What is wrong with that? How will it have any impact on your life? It
won't, so let them be happy and get married as consenting adults.
Discrimination is against the law. Prop 8 is blatant discrimination.
Re: Rights | 4:02 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
"Being gay doesn't doesn't mean you get special rights. Thousands
of years have defined marriage and now you want to change it. Laws are made
because of experience. Nuff said."
How about this:
Being a slave doesn't doesn't mean you get special rights. Thousands of years have defined slavery and now you want to change it. Laws are made because of experience. Nuff said.
How about this:
Being a slave doesn't doesn't mean you get special rights. Thousands of years have defined slavery and now you want to change it. Laws are made because of experience. Nuff said.
OH | 4:03 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
It is true that the Mormon church did a lot to pass Prop 8, but in the grand
scheme of things, the percentage of Mormons in California is probably about
5-10% of the total population. The fact of the matter is that this was passed
by the voice of the people in California. The overwhelming majority of the
people who voted to pass Prop 8 in California are not Mormon.
Marriage is from God and it is not our decision to define what it is or isn't.
Marriage is from God and it is not our decision to define what it is or isn't.
Re: Sarah | 4:04 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I'm with you! Hope of Israel rise in might!!!
boiseguy | 4:04 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
protesting at temple square is a waste of time.
just stick with a lawsuit. A majority vote on civil rights is unconstitutional and it will be overturned as well. Its just a matter of time. And there will be gay marriage even in utah and Idaho and everywhere else soon enough. When that happens, tables will turn, and we'll be seeing ridiculous words and actions by people who are pointing fingers now. People will be free and represented under their government fairly and justly. Prepare your little mormon heads for it. Its going to come.
god bless
just stick with a lawsuit. A majority vote on civil rights is unconstitutional and it will be overturned as well. Its just a matter of time. And there will be gay marriage even in utah and Idaho and everywhere else soon enough. When that happens, tables will turn, and we'll be seeing ridiculous words and actions by people who are pointing fingers now. People will be free and represented under their government fairly and justly. Prepare your little mormon heads for it. Its going to come.
god bless
Anti-pride | 4:05 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Being gay does not define me.
Geezer | 4:05 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The church will come to regret having pushed for this anti-marriage measure.
lin in tn | 4:05 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
This is a democratic republic. The people have spoken. Let it be.
tony | 4:05 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Doesn't the church remember what it was like to be an outcast? Even still,
romney lost cause he is a mormon republican. Dems are fair and give rights to
all, even mormons like harry reid. Thanks to the church for trumping our rights.
We now need to push the irs to no longer allow tax exempt status for the
church...let's tax their tithing! You will lose temples...you will lose
churches...you will lose members. But at least you have rights and deserve them.
Just as those who wish to marry. The church should have fought the womens rights
of abortion, assisted suicides, and the legalizing of marijuana...those are much
worse!
Been there, done that... | 4:06 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The LDS Church is not the only organization which helped Prop. 8 to pass...a
coalition of other churces, in addition to the majority of the citizens of
California, are also to thank/blame (depending on how you look at it). I am
proud for the LDS Church who always sticks up for what they believe, especially
at a time when some may view it as unpopular, and anyone who wants to protest
integrity will find few who want to listen. The LDS Church, from it's very
beginning, has been the target of scrutiny--if you really want to make the
Church look bad you should stop giving it so much credit and look the other
way--otherwise, we have seen it all before--and it's just old news. One
more thing--this wasn't an attack on homosexuality--it is a definition of
marriage (I am curious as to why we need to define something that already has a
definition ?!?).
silent voice | 4:07 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
So why aren't the other religions being attack as aggressively as the LDS
church? Sounds prejudice to me�
Black and Latino Voters | 4:07 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Although the MEMBERS of the LDS church (not the church) helped to pass this very
important proposition, the homosexual movement needs to give more credit to
President-Elect Obama and the minority vote (70% of Black and Latino voters
supported Prop 8).
If not for Obama, the number of minority voters would not have voted. Without their votes, Prop 8 would not have passed.
Why do we not see some protests at NAACP headquarters in California?
Bottom line, the people's voice was heard loud and clear: Protect families, children, and religious freedoms...
If not for Obama, the number of minority voters would not have voted. Without their votes, Prop 8 would not have passed.
Why do we not see some protests at NAACP headquarters in California?
Bottom line, the people's voice was heard loud and clear: Protect families, children, and religious freedoms...
C.W. | 4:10 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
These marches are great entertainment value but have little political
significance! I wonder if they'd still have their march if no tv cameras
showed up?
To 1 Nephi 14 | 4:10 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Amen. I too want to join other members at the temple tonight. We must be
Christlike though and show strength of resistence to do evil back to those who
come to defile the temple. The temple stands for everything pure and holy in
this world and is as Noah's Ark with the world mocking Noah and his family
as he built it only to pound upon it's doors for deliverance from the
floods when they hit. The floods of evil, immorality, and hate have arrived let
us now purify ourselves so that we do not drown in them and go to the temple
tonight. Let us pray for our enemies and for ourselves that we may be full of
charity towards them. I understand their frustration, but my Presidential
choice didn't win and I'm not rioting and causing evil to come upon my
neighbors for thier opposite choice. My right to have less taxes were taken
away by those who voted both in congress and in the state against my wishes and
with Obama he's made it clear they will continue to rise, but you
won't see me destroying my Democratic neighbor's property over it.
Scott | 4:11 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I'm a member of the LDS church and believe homosexuality is wrong.
However, I defend the right of the homosexual community to protest. Its a
fundamental part of democracy to be able to have freedom of speech even if you
don't agree with them. Second, the LDS church has a right to make a
statement against proposition 8, also due to freedom of speech. A rally to
offset the protestors is also democratic. However I question motives of people
on both sides. Are people wanting to go out there tonight just to antagonize
and look for a fight or to, as already said, "protect the temple gates and
walls from being vandalized." Police will be there so don't worry
about them vandalizing the temple. Both sides need to show more respect and
class.
Pete | 4:12 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Proposition 8 was a meaningless exercise. The fact is that marrage is a
religious rite and has no place in the government of the United States. Under
the Constitution of the United States it states in the first amendment that
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".
States are prohibited by the Constitution from making laws that the Constitution
prohibits congress from making. By codifying marrage the government endorses a
religious rite as an official act of the government. What United States
governments must do is eliminate marrage altogether from our laws. There is no
legal reason whatsoever that marrage should be considered in any Federal or
state law or local ordinance. To do so violates the 1st Amendment.
jt | 4:13 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
i am not lds, i am a born again christian and i am against same sex marriage.
the lds have some of the most loving families i have ever seen. i do not know
much about them but i do know i am 100% with them on this subject. i want to
know why they are attacking just the mormon church. that just shows you how
uneducated some of these people are. they want to blame someone, so lets get
the mormons. well, i won't be there physically but i will be there in
spirit to help guard the gates to the temple in slc. your born again friend and
sister in christ
Chris | 4:13 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I don't get it they didn't get it passed so they want to go to court
to get the decision they want.
I believe that the vote of the people should beat a single judge anytime. It was not like 12 people voted like a jury. This was a jury of your peers but the jury was 5 million people voting to keep marriage between man and women.
You should fight not for marriage right but tax rights as a civil union.
I believe that the vote of the people should beat a single judge anytime. It was not like 12 people voted like a jury. This was a jury of your peers but the jury was 5 million people voting to keep marriage between man and women.
You should fight not for marriage right but tax rights as a civil union.
Daren | 4:13 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I find it interesting that in Arizona the ads against the proposition were all
stating that everyone should vote no on the propostion because there were so
many more improtant things to be concerned about in our county and the world.
Now that it has passed it seems to be the number one issue on the minds of those
who opposed the ban.
You can protest all you want it does not change the fact that homosexuality was, is, and will always be a sin, and will never be condoned by the church. we as a church have endured and worse and I am sure we will endure more ridicule and persecution in the future. All that does is increase my faith and determination to fight against evil. The faithful members of this church know these battles are coming and will not shirk their responsiblities in defense of our creator and his church.
You can protest all you want it does not change the fact that homosexuality was, is, and will always be a sin, and will never be condoned by the church. we as a church have endured and worse and I am sure we will endure more ridicule and persecution in the future. All that does is increase my faith and determination to fight against evil. The faithful members of this church know these battles are coming and will not shirk their responsiblities in defense of our creator and his church.
Weird | 4:14 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Doesn't that conflict with the announced boycott of Utah? How can you
boycott Utah and show up at Temple Square at the same time? That community
desperately needs an organizer.
John T | 4:14 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I think the reason the Mormon church is being targeted is because of many
people's perception that the church violated the separation of church and
state and violated its tax exempt status by lobbying so hard for the passage of
Prop 8. I don't think we actually separate church and state anymore. I
don't know why the Catholic church has been given a free pass on this one.
Too big, I suppose. They were also heavy contributors. Another issue is denying
homosexuals the right or privilege to marry for all time regardless of what we
learn in the future about human sexuality. We aren't a bunch of Iron Age
shepherds lost in the Sinai. I think it's too early to call this one over
and done with. Time will certainly tell.
Gotta love democracy | 4:16 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I hope every one who goes gets a wake up call that It happen in CALIFORNIA. This
is UTAH. You guys are off by A couple few hundred miles.
Oh Yah I heard that the PEOPLE VOTED and the MAJORITY won. Imagine that. Wow that was hard.
What is so hard to understand that marriage is between a husband and wife? You have mother and a father. Not two fathers. Not two mothers. One Dad and one Mom
Oh Yah I heard that the PEOPLE VOTED and the MAJORITY won. Imagine that. Wow that was hard.
What is so hard to understand that marriage is between a husband and wife? You have mother and a father. Not two fathers. Not two mothers. One Dad and one Mom
Jonathan | 4:17 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
It is quite illuminating to see all the kind messages of good will directed
towards the people exercising their constitutional right to assembly. It tells
me all I need to know about the LDS church.
MG | 4:18 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Next week we need to go to Roam and march around the Vatican. Then we will...
where is the Sons of Columbus's temple?
Dave | 4:22 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Last I checked, African Americans in SoCal overwhelmingly (70%+) voted in
support of Prop 8. When's the protest in Compton planned?
Explaination | 4:22 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Good. Excersize your freedom of speach. But if any thing happens to the
temple.... Mormons where I am from do have tempers. Just a warning.
can du | 4:23 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Why are gays targeting the LDS church? Deep down, they know. They instinctively
know The Temple is both a symbol and a center of a real power. In an odd way,
they actually have a testimony that the church really is what it says it is.
This is yet another extention of what we call "The War in Heaven."
This is yet another extention of what we call "The War in Heaven."
Why Now? | 4:23 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I don't get why marches, protests, and so forth are being called now. Why
not last week, before the votes were cast?
It seems that would have been a better time to galvanize support for the cause.
It seems that would have been a better time to galvanize support for the cause.
Facts | 4:24 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Everyone knows that the LDS Church sent out a memo urging its members to support
prop 8. Everyone also knows that the church requested members to either call or
go to California in order to support prop 8. I live in Southern California so I
know these are the facts. I also know that the LDS's members donated
nearly 40% of the money that supported prop 8. So if people are still wondering
why people are upset with a specific church, it should be no suprise. The LDS
Church crossed the line between "seperation of church and state."
There is no doubt that the LDS Church got way to involved in a political issue
and now they are seeing the results of their actions. It is insulting when
people keep saying that the LDS members are only 1% of the population in
California or what about the Catholics or Protestans who supported prop 8. We
all know this, however other religious groups gave their oppinion and then they
stopped pushing the issue in public...the LDS Church didn't. This issue
will not go away.
Cassi | 4:24 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I think some of you are being very closed minded about this gathering. People,
be they gay or straight, can get together and peaceably assemble with out it
going bad. You have painted the people going to this rally mean spirited people
and that is not the case. They just want their voices heard. They will go and
listen to to some speeches and do some walking. Believe it or not it is a
constitutional right for them to do this protest as much as some people would
like them to have none. They can gather where they would like and peaceably
assemble which is exactly what they will do. There is no reason for such an up
roar about the protest. In years down the road the rest of society will realize
it is their constitutional right, notice I don't say religious but
constitutional, to be married and have families. Just like people realized that
African Americans and Women have just as much right as white men this will
happen for the GLBT society as well. They will have their day and what a better
nation we will be for it.
Michael | 4:25 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Consenting adults have the right to engage in relationships of their choice
(even if immoral), but there is no "fundamental right" to have a
government of the people sanction or approve a relationship that the majority
deems immoral.
These gay activists don't know the meaning of the word "bigot." They are the ones who refuse to acknowledge that anyone else has a reasonable and sincere opinion.
These gay activists don't know the meaning of the word "bigot." They are the ones who refuse to acknowledge that anyone else has a reasonable and sincere opinion.
David | 4:29 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I am so sick of the protestors. Take your challenges up with the courts. Get
off Church property and respect the wishes of the majority. It seems like you
have nothing better to do with your time than harrass members of the LDS faith.
It will only make the faithful LDS members grow more intolerant of your immoral
lifestyle. Get a life. Furthermore, do not vandalize church property
especially our temples. How would you feel if your houses and cars and
reputation were marred, slandered and defiled. Pathetic.
Kate | 4:29 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
My goodness. Yeah, let's protest one church in a different state because
they asked their members to support an issue that this church believes in.
Let's negate the freedom of religion. Are you going to protest at the
Vatican, too? What about airing a commercial with nuns storming a gay home? I
would love to seee little old ladies and some karate moves. At least it would be
more true and far more entertaining than the rediculousness of tonight's
protest. The only good thing I can see from tonight is freedom of speech. Too
bad it will fall on ears that are listening to something much more important:
the truth.
Blue | 4:29 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
As a Californian, former Mormon and BYU alumni, I would also like to express my
sincere thanks to those of you in Salt Lake City who are demonstrating on behalf
of civil marriage equality for all. I am sickened by the ignorant viewpoints
expressed on this web-site. I'm sorry I can't be there to join you.
Jon B. Holbrook | 4:29 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members have the right
of freedom of speech and religion as does any other citizen of the United
States. Any group that would try to intimidate or otherwise take away these
rights because you disagree with them are, in fact, violating the very
principles mentioned in the first admendment.
Civil discourse on emotionally-charged issues should be the rule. All Churches and other civic groups both religious and secular have the right to speak out on moral issues.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members have the right to take any legal action to protect themselves against any potential nob violence.
Thank-You
Civil discourse on emotionally-charged issues should be the rule. All Churches and other civic groups both religious and secular have the right to speak out on moral issues.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members have the right to take any legal action to protect themselves against any potential nob violence.
Thank-You
Kevin | 4:29 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
To all those members of the church who think the church leaders made a mistake
by speaking out on this subject, it's time to separate the wheat from the
tares.
! | 4:30 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Basically the argument "gay-rights" activists use is that
homosexuality is an unalterable characteristic akin to race, hair color, etc.
Where did this view come from? It came from those who have such feelings, as a
way to justify them.
But the fact remains that there is no scientific evidence supporting this. And people got along well for thousands of years understanding that guys marry girls, and girls marry guys. Perhaps homosexual feelings come more easily to some people, and maybe it's not their fault; but it is not an unalterable characteristic.
In most Christian faiths it is generally understood that having such feelings is not a sin - it is acting upon the feelings which constitutes sin. But, again, in the Christian viewpoint, such feelings can and should be overcome. If a homosexual person really wants to change, they can. It is not unalterable.
Identity characteristics from birth is an easy excuse to accept if you want to rationalize gay marriage. But the whole "civil rights" argument hinges on whether or not it is an alterable characteristic, choice, or decision. I believe that it is.
But the fact remains that there is no scientific evidence supporting this. And people got along well for thousands of years understanding that guys marry girls, and girls marry guys. Perhaps homosexual feelings come more easily to some people, and maybe it's not their fault; but it is not an unalterable characteristic.
In most Christian faiths it is generally understood that having such feelings is not a sin - it is acting upon the feelings which constitutes sin. But, again, in the Christian viewpoint, such feelings can and should be overcome. If a homosexual person really wants to change, they can. It is not unalterable.
Identity characteristics from birth is an easy excuse to accept if you want to rationalize gay marriage. But the whole "civil rights" argument hinges on whether or not it is an alterable characteristic, choice, or decision. I believe that it is.
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Yes, "metro-sexual" cultural trend shifts are because of corn and in no way a...
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