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Prop. 8 protest draws thousands in Salt Lake City
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Question 4U | 8:39 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Are all Mormons this nasty and self-rightous?
Chris | 8:45 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
There is a major difference between religious marriage and civil
marriage......my partner and I are Roman Catholic...we would fight for our
church's right to not recognize our relationship...the Pope has primacy in
our faith, though we don't agree with him -- he is the law of the RC
church.
However, we will fight for our civil rights to be full citizens in our state. Seperate but equal is not equal in civil law in the United States -- see Brown v Board of Ed 1954. We will prevail in the courts and we've come extremely close even with this vote because THE US IS NOT A THEOCRACY as much as some people would like that to be true. Individual rights have always ultimately prevailed in this country---read the history.
However, we will fight for our civil rights to be full citizens in our state. Seperate but equal is not equal in civil law in the United States -- see Brown v Board of Ed 1954. We will prevail in the courts and we've come extremely close even with this vote because THE US IS NOT A THEOCRACY as much as some people would like that to be true. Individual rights have always ultimately prevailed in this country---read the history.
roger johnston | 9:23 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
I love the "argument from majority" that so many people here use in
this state. Just because a majority thinks they know better doesn't make it
right. I wonder if this issue in future generations will look back and say,
"they should have known better." Lets take a look back at some of the
thing the "majority" thought was right....slavery...most people would
say should have known better. The church of all people should know what its like
to be thrown under the bus for "marriage" issues. They certainly
weren't in the majority then. There is an inhert flaw in putting a vote to
the public were the majority can impose its will on the minority. The majority
time and again isn't always right...I guess cause "God" said so
the earth is still flat and we are at the center of his creation.."they
should have known better?" Slavery, womens rights, interracial marriage,
etc all sound rediculious and we think we are so superior in our morality yet I
argue we still wear the same blinders.
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 9:24 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
When the prophet speaks, the thinking may NOT have been done. It is good to see
protests in front of church buildings. It should have happened years ago.
RE Question for U | 9:43 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Nasty and Self-righteous?))
Sounds like you are describing the Liberal Gay Activists.
I know that these Gay Activists will continue to 'kick against the pricks' until the millennium.
If God asked me what I did in this life?
I can say that I voted against Gay marriages and Abortions.
/Maybe that might get me in the door.... yo!
Sounds like you are describing the Liberal Gay Activists.
I know that these Gay Activists will continue to 'kick against the pricks' until the millennium.
If God asked me what I did in this life?
I can say that I voted against Gay marriages and Abortions.
/Maybe that might get me in the door.... yo!
Re: Daniel | 9:52 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Nearly every law we have is based on religion. Read the Ten Commandments and
you'll find the basis for our laws against murder, stealing, perjury, etc.
To suggest that people can't vote according to their Church's
teachings is to deny us our right.
Whether or not gay marriage will hurt society is very difficult to know at this time. Many turn to their own wisdom and 'compassion' when making their vote. Many others, including myself turn to God for the answer because we don't trust the wisdom of man.
We know you do the same and do not fault you when you vote against giving rights to bear arms. You think it's better for society and we get that and never claim that if the majority felt that way the laws would be constitutional.
The left's denial for us to vote as we see is best for society is the real oppression of rights and I strongly object.
Whether or not gay marriage will hurt society is very difficult to know at this time. Many turn to their own wisdom and 'compassion' when making their vote. Many others, including myself turn to God for the answer because we don't trust the wisdom of man.
We know you do the same and do not fault you when you vote against giving rights to bear arms. You think it's better for society and we get that and never claim that if the majority felt that way the laws would be constitutional.
The left's denial for us to vote as we see is best for society is the real oppression of rights and I strongly object.
kid | 9:54 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
The church to me seems to be the most pro-marriage organization in the world,
not the most anti-gay. According to most Californians marriage is defined
between a man and woman, not two guys or two girls, but one of each. Ah, what a
day, finally. Quit getting it mixed up people, just accept what happened and
live your life in your own closet!
Anonymous | 9:55 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
The irs code talks about CANDIDATES not propositions.
JR | 10:02 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
To my fellow LDS members. We obviously are supporters of Prop 8. However, I
think that we need to be very careful about the way that we respond to some of
these posts. Remember, the few can make it look like they represent the masses.
We are taught to be respectful I think that we can do a better job of that.
Reach out with love, not with cutting words. We may not have the same views,
but we can be civil and friendly.
J. Wright | 10:04 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Homosexuality = Gender Identity Confusion
All the 'gay marriages' in the world won't change that simple truth.
All the picketing in the world won't change that for homosexuals on a personal level.
You cannot take away others right to choose. You cannot control their minds and hearts to accept your confusion. You can only deal with it on a personal level.
You have chosen a dark and dreary path one in which there is no right turns. You cannot reproduce so you must recruit and therein lies the truth. You must recruit from children of heterosexuals. I don't believe that you would want this lifestyle for your own children. You would not inflict the misery you suffer on your own innocent progeny.
Look to the Light...Only God can heal you.
All the 'gay marriages' in the world won't change that simple truth.
All the picketing in the world won't change that for homosexuals on a personal level.
You cannot take away others right to choose. You cannot control their minds and hearts to accept your confusion. You can only deal with it on a personal level.
You have chosen a dark and dreary path one in which there is no right turns. You cannot reproduce so you must recruit and therein lies the truth. You must recruit from children of heterosexuals. I don't believe that you would want this lifestyle for your own children. You would not inflict the misery you suffer on your own innocent progeny.
Look to the Light...Only God can heal you.
Info man | 10:19 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Years ago, my wife and I were having a conversation about persecutions that the
church and it's members may have to endure in the coming years. It was
hard to believe things could go negative. The church was receiving a lot of
positive press throughout the world. It's future, as far as public opinion
was concerned, looked bright.
We talked about the Presidency's statement, The Family, Proclamation to the world, the timing of it, (1995) and why it is so important. We felt that God inspired our prophet to bring this forth to reeducate it's members and prepare them for upcoming events. This Proclamation makes very clear Gods will for the church and it's members.
The gays will continue to move with their agenda to have gay marriage and adoption legalized, and legitimize their lifestyle through Hollywood, media, and public education.
The Church and it's faithful members will continue to support marriage and the family, and oppose those things that are detrimental to this institution and society as a whole.
Although we may be persecuted for our stand, we will also continue to grow with added membership of those who share our ideals and love of family.
We talked about the Presidency's statement, The Family, Proclamation to the world, the timing of it, (1995) and why it is so important. We felt that God inspired our prophet to bring this forth to reeducate it's members and prepare them for upcoming events. This Proclamation makes very clear Gods will for the church and it's members.
The gays will continue to move with their agenda to have gay marriage and adoption legalized, and legitimize their lifestyle through Hollywood, media, and public education.
The Church and it's faithful members will continue to support marriage and the family, and oppose those things that are detrimental to this institution and society as a whole.
Although we may be persecuted for our stand, we will also continue to grow with added membership of those who share our ideals and love of family.
I have a right to my believes to | 10:33 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
The irony of this whole thing is overwhelming!
We, the LDS, have not rights to our religious believes??? Because we don't agree with yours???
What in the world are you talking about?
I have a right to believe that God doesn't agree, in fact dispises, the thoughts of homosexuality.
I believe the scriptures, as do the Catholic, Protestants, Methodists, Church of Christ, etc etc etc
And also thanks to you all, many more will become interested in our religion because they too see homosexuality as a perversion.
So what you are doing ends up in our favor.
And to you professors at the U of U who hold your students grades in your hands according to if they agree with your philosophy of supporting the gay rights for a better grade ... Shame on you for your discrimination! Yeah .. this is an OBVIOUS example of DISCRIMINATION.
We, the LDS, have not rights to our religious believes??? Because we don't agree with yours???
What in the world are you talking about?
I have a right to believe that God doesn't agree, in fact dispises, the thoughts of homosexuality.
I believe the scriptures, as do the Catholic, Protestants, Methodists, Church of Christ, etc etc etc
And also thanks to you all, many more will become interested in our religion because they too see homosexuality as a perversion.
So what you are doing ends up in our favor.
And to you professors at the U of U who hold your students grades in your hands according to if they agree with your philosophy of supporting the gay rights for a better grade ... Shame on you for your discrimination! Yeah .. this is an OBVIOUS example of DISCRIMINATION.
Karen | 10:38 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
I am a teacher and a library student in CA and I can personally testify that we
are ALREADY BEING REQUIRED to teach gay agenda stuff--it's been in the
social studies curriculum for YEARS (so you can't exempt your kid).
Libraries have gay-promotion as part of their agenda as well. As to closing
doors of charities, it has already happened in MA. And churches in Canada have
already been forced to do gay marriages. The Church and the prophet did not
lie--prophets are forthtellers as well as foretellers. We were merely warned by
those who know about what might have happened should 8 have failed.
The gay community threatened that it will use education of our children to get their way. Once children have been taught that being gay/gay marriage is okay, they will vote that way. It is called brainwashing. The activist judges overturned Prop 22 so that they could honestly claim discrimination--thus villifying people who took a yes stand. The fact that we went from 61% to only 52% tells us that their agenda is already working. We need to be very afraid for our nation and keep fighting for righteousness lest evil prevail. See Mosiah 29:25-27.
The gay community threatened that it will use education of our children to get their way. Once children have been taught that being gay/gay marriage is okay, they will vote that way. It is called brainwashing. The activist judges overturned Prop 22 so that they could honestly claim discrimination--thus villifying people who took a yes stand. The fact that we went from 61% to only 52% tells us that their agenda is already working. We need to be very afraid for our nation and keep fighting for righteousness lest evil prevail. See Mosiah 29:25-27.
Re: Mormons Disgust Me | 10:51 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
What???????????? Out of the 900+ comments, by far, that one is the most
ignorant.
Mo-Town | 10:52 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
There have been about 85,000 posts in response to this piece, and I don't
know if I've read even one that mentioned God's will on the
subject.
The reason members of the LDS faith went after Prop 8 so heavily is not becuase they don't want flamers to have any rights. It has to do with their belief that homosexual marriage is a grevious sin in the eyes of God and hence, destructive on society.
It would be like a group of Mormons wanting to write a future propostion to ban alcohol. Do you think their wouldn't be any resistance and demonstrating against the idea from the other side? As sure as hell their would be.
The reason members of the LDS faith went after Prop 8 so heavily is not becuase they don't want flamers to have any rights. It has to do with their belief that homosexual marriage is a grevious sin in the eyes of God and hence, destructive on society.
It would be like a group of Mormons wanting to write a future propostion to ban alcohol. Do you think their wouldn't be any resistance and demonstrating against the idea from the other side? As sure as hell their would be.
Slavery | 10:55 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Do we really believe that slavery was ever a majority issue? Or was it a
concesssion to create "these United States." Every time I hear the
argument posed by Roger above... "Lets take a look back at some of the
thing the "majority" thought was right....slavery...most people would
say should have known better." ... I cringe. Roger, the majority
eventually went to war to eliminate slavery because they never believed it was
right. Many paid the ultimate price. Most of us don't see gay marriage as
being equivalent to the whole civil rights movement and most of us, mormon or
otherwise, are not buying the whole gay marriage as a basic human right thing.
David | 10:57 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Why are people screaming that the issue is about gay rights, when:
1. No rights are actually being taken away.
a. If you are homosexual, you may still vote
b. If you are homosexual, you may still own weapons.
c. If you are homosexual, your partner under the domestic partnership law, still protects as if a spouse.
d. If you are homosexual, no person will prevent you from using the term marriage though you are legally a domestic partner.
2. Polygamists are equally if not more effected
a. Under the amendment, no polygamists may legally marry since by definition polygamists seek out 1 man and multiple women.
b. Under the domestic partnership laws, no woman may marry another woman if she is already married to a man. So, the domestic partnership is bigoted against polygamists.
1. No rights are actually being taken away.
a. If you are homosexual, you may still vote
b. If you are homosexual, you may still own weapons.
c. If you are homosexual, your partner under the domestic partnership law, still protects as if a spouse.
d. If you are homosexual, no person will prevent you from using the term marriage though you are legally a domestic partner.
2. Polygamists are equally if not more effected
a. Under the amendment, no polygamists may legally marry since by definition polygamists seek out 1 man and multiple women.
b. Under the domestic partnership laws, no woman may marry another woman if she is already married to a man. So, the domestic partnership is bigoted against polygamists.
Wow | 11:10 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Utah is full of ignorance. Why do people here seem to think they are always
right, that there is no other right answers in the world? Truth be told, there
is not a right answer to every question.
I see self-righteous people on both sides of the issue. It is you, the extremes, that cause hatred between the two fractions. Everyone has a right to their own beliefs, but you cannot enforce them on another group.
J. Wright: You are the city on the hill as far biogtry goes. And you, my friend, cannot take away the right of a homosexual's right to choose to love whomever they please.
I see self-righteous people on both sides of the issue. It is you, the extremes, that cause hatred between the two fractions. Everyone has a right to their own beliefs, but you cannot enforce them on another group.
J. Wright: You are the city on the hill as far biogtry goes. And you, my friend, cannot take away the right of a homosexual's right to choose to love whomever they please.
Laura | 11:11 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
OK, it's as simple as this:
Those of you who voted YES on Prop 8 fear God more than man.
Those of you who voted No on Prop 8 fear man more than God.
Those of you who voted YES on Prop 8 fear God more than man.
Those of you who voted No on Prop 8 fear man more than God.
LDS against Prop 8 | 11:17 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Clearly, many things will not change. The LDS Church will never reverse its
position, as many have outwardly spoken. Even though Mormons might be a
majority, they clearly made their voice heard in the campaigning.
What fundamental LDS members fail to understand is that the LGBT people are not asking for special rights. The argument that traditional marriage has always been so is not true. There have been many kinds of marriages --- but I won't go there now.
Second, the LGBT community, as of right now, does not have equal rights under the law. Standing many times in Sacrament meetings, I have heard it say that "they are ok with unions, as long as they do not call it marriage." However, do LDS members come in droves to protect the rights of the LGBT community? No, they do not. But when it comes to limiting their rights, they vote and campaign fiercefully. Is there an unspoken message here?
While this Prop might have failed now, society is changing. This was a slim margin clearly showing how society is changing from the 2000 Prop 22. We will hold our ground. While we may not agree, we will gain our rights.
What fundamental LDS members fail to understand is that the LGBT people are not asking for special rights. The argument that traditional marriage has always been so is not true. There have been many kinds of marriages --- but I won't go there now.
Second, the LGBT community, as of right now, does not have equal rights under the law. Standing many times in Sacrament meetings, I have heard it say that "they are ok with unions, as long as they do not call it marriage." However, do LDS members come in droves to protect the rights of the LGBT community? No, they do not. But when it comes to limiting their rights, they vote and campaign fiercefully. Is there an unspoken message here?
While this Prop might have failed now, society is changing. This was a slim margin clearly showing how society is changing from the 2000 Prop 22. We will hold our ground. While we may not agree, we will gain our rights.
David In New York | 11:31 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
It's ignorant to suggest that Mormons alone pushed prop 8 through.
California has 36 million citizens, 750,000 of which are Mormon. What about the
other 35 million Californians? Didn't they count. In this country we all
have to live with the will of the majority... for good or bad. Respect for
rights? Gay marriage is not an established right. Free speach is, and
that's what the Mormon church was doing. Pretty hypocrital if you ask me.
"Tolerence" should go both ways.
Don't be fooled!!! | 11:31 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
But, the gay agenda people (as a whole) have NOT shown that respect, civility,
or love back. They have not acted equally. They want equality, but refuse to
show it in return when they don't get their way.
This whole thing is NOT about equality. Section 297.5 (a) of the CA Family Code says homosexuals have the same rights, duties, and responsibilities as heterosexual couples. Where is the discrimination? They already have the same rights so their argument there is hollow.
This whole thing is NOT about equality. Section 297.5 (a) of the CA Family Code says homosexuals have the same rights, duties, and responsibilities as heterosexual couples. Where is the discrimination? They already have the same rights so their argument there is hollow.
Steve | 11:38 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
These people are complaining about how rights are being taken away from them.
I've got news for you people. The law applies to everyone. The rest of us
cant be homosexual either. So, no, no rights are being taken away from you. You
are equal to the rest of us.
These people are complaining about how they are being discriminated against. I've got more news for you. As so many people here have already pointed out, being gay is a choice. If you think you are being treated unfairly, and if you dont like it, quit complaining and do something useful about it. Notice the word useful. Dont go handing out propoganda, just change and be heterosexual. There is absolutely nothing keeping you from doing it.
Lastly, many people are saying that the church was discriminated against and hated for something that we could change as well, so we, of all people, should know how it feels. Guess what! We decided to hold to our beliefs and turn the other cheek. You are standing by your beliefs as well. But dont do it by vandalizing and writing hate mail. If you want respect, show us that you deserve it.
These people are complaining about how they are being discriminated against. I've got more news for you. As so many people here have already pointed out, being gay is a choice. If you think you are being treated unfairly, and if you dont like it, quit complaining and do something useful about it. Notice the word useful. Dont go handing out propoganda, just change and be heterosexual. There is absolutely nothing keeping you from doing it.
Lastly, many people are saying that the church was discriminated against and hated for something that we could change as well, so we, of all people, should know how it feels. Guess what! We decided to hold to our beliefs and turn the other cheek. You are standing by your beliefs as well. But dont do it by vandalizing and writing hate mail. If you want respect, show us that you deserve it.
Laura | 11:40 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Here are some companies to watch out for:
Apple
Levi Strauss
Google
PG&E
Apple
Levi Strauss
PG&E
Re: Roger Johnston | 11:47 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
You are absolutely correct when you say "Just because a majority thinks
they know better doesn't make it right" but being in a free country
means you have to live by the majority's vote - even if it is wrong. That
is the rule of law; and if one day the majority chooses to allow gay marriage
they will be just as wrong as they are today.
When the voice of the people chooses something that God has forbidden than the entire nation will suffer God's wrath. I am sorry that this is so hard for gay people (even though they still have the same legal rights as straight people) but the voters have chosen to live according to God's word in a Christian land. The founding fathers always meant for this people to be virtuous and live by principals taught in the Bible.
BTW, it is not self-righteous to vote for living by the commandments. Relying on your own understanding and going against nature's laws and centuries of procreative definition of marriage is. Sorry if you feel the way you do. Your way of life cannot continue more than one generation by itself.
When the voice of the people chooses something that God has forbidden than the entire nation will suffer God's wrath. I am sorry that this is so hard for gay people (even though they still have the same legal rights as straight people) but the voters have chosen to live according to God's word in a Christian land. The founding fathers always meant for this people to be virtuous and live by principals taught in the Bible.
BTW, it is not self-righteous to vote for living by the commandments. Relying on your own understanding and going against nature's laws and centuries of procreative definition of marriage is. Sorry if you feel the way you do. Your way of life cannot continue more than one generation by itself.
leah | 11:51 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
laura...perfectly said!
Roger Johnston | 11:56 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Since I never mentioned the US specifically and to turn the argument into
"the majority" again won that battle cause it was right is off the
mark and lets not touch on it since so many sacraficed is missing the point. I
would simply pointing out that we look back and see that Slavery, Women's
rights, Civil rights movement, Earth being flat and not being at the center of
our creation seem silly to us now but those people certainly and majority of
them belived it to be so or ok. It was a question, will we think this is silly
say 100 years from now? If you honestly believe that the human race didn't
majority line of thinking, even in this country, think slavery, womens rights,
african americans rights that the majority of the people were against them from
the beginning whom is the one in ignorance? It is I sir who am cringing and not
buying "it was just a concession." Since the majority of the founding
father owned slaves. Again the questions stand, Are the majority always right
and will future generations look back at our ignorance?
Church and State | 11:58 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
I fail to see how the LDS Church can be accused of trying to force their
religious beliefs onto others. Shame on those you have tried to twist Joseph
Smiths words to prove that the Church is going against it�s
own teachings.
How have we tried to force our beliefs on others? The only thing the Church has done was to ask the members in California to encourage their friends and neighbors to support prop8. How is supporting a belief that marriage is between a man and a women and has been supported by Muslims, Christians and Jews for thousands of years, any sign that Mormons are attempting to force their beliefs on others and using the ballot to do it.
The idea of separation of Church and State is nowhere to be found in the constitution. If anyone can find it, please let us know. It does keep the government out of religion though. �Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;� How much plainer does it need to be. As to tax except status threats, again read the constitution; �OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF�
How have we tried to force our beliefs on others? The only thing the Church has done was to ask the members in California to encourage their friends and neighbors to support prop8. How is supporting a belief that marriage is between a man and a women and has been supported by Muslims, Christians and Jews for thousands of years, any sign that Mormons are attempting to force their beliefs on others and using the ballot to do it.
The idea of separation of Church and State is nowhere to be found in the constitution. If anyone can find it, please let us know. It does keep the government out of religion though. �Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;� How much plainer does it need to be. As to tax except status threats, again read the constitution; �OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF�
Anonymous | 12:07 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Re: Wow @11:10
Truth be told, there are right and wrong answers to most basic moral questions.
This is the difference between you and I. I have a clear direction that I follow in this debate, you are confused with your own position.
Truth be told, there are right and wrong answers to most basic moral questions.
This is the difference between you and I. I have a clear direction that I follow in this debate, you are confused with your own position.
Tired in NC | 12:10 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
This is a democracy. I do not like the outcome of the recent election, but I
will support the new president and the leaders of this nation. The voice of
the people has also spoken in the matter of Proposition 8 and the people of our
country need to respect that, or move to another country. I will always
believe that a marriage is between a man and a woman and GOD and always will be.
I will also always believe in our Country and the rights given to us in the
Constitution. It is time the protesters do the same.
Re: Laura | 12:14 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
It really comes down to this:
Those of you who voted YES on Prop 8 believe you know what God truly wants, because you read it in a book.
Those of you who voted No on Prop 8 just want gay marriages to be treated as 100% equal to heterosexual marriages. If you believe that the gay population has all the rights all ready, under civil unions, then it should be no big deal if we get rid of the concept of marriage and we all just have civil unions. Sounds good to me, just along as everone is treated 100% the same.
Those of you who voted YES on Prop 8 believe you know what God truly wants, because you read it in a book.
Those of you who voted No on Prop 8 just want gay marriages to be treated as 100% equal to heterosexual marriages. If you believe that the gay population has all the rights all ready, under civil unions, then it should be no big deal if we get rid of the concept of marriage and we all just have civil unions. Sounds good to me, just along as everone is treated 100% the same.
What is that smell? | 12:15 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
I'm neither gay nor Mormon. I don't like either one of you. You both
belong in a zoo.
Scott | 12:27 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
the issue here is the definition of marriage. I am all for all of the benefits
of marriage insurance , health care, etc. being given to gay couples. However I
am not ok with the redefinition of marriage. This is not about acceptance as
much as it is indoctrination and limiting parental rights or a churchs right
with regards to marriage. If you believe the commercials for prop 8 were
exxagerated then you are mistaken as these things are happening in
Massachusetts. There are priests and ministers being sued over not performing
gay marriages, there are documents being given to kindergartners portraying
things that should be left to the parents to discuss. The alarming thing is that
twice now in california this resolution has passed and now we will endure the
legal trials over this. I am appalled by the protests that are spewing such hate
yet they proclaim to be accepting of all. The truth is they are accepting as
long as you agree with their point of wview.
Sal K. | 12:57 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
It is a bad idea for mormons to post in defense of these. The more and more you
post the worse you all look. It is sad and I do not think the mormon church will
recover from this blunder.
re- LDS against Gay marriage | 1:14 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Standing many times in Sacrament meetings, I have heard it say that "they
are ok with unions, as long as they do not call it
marriage."*********************
What kind of sacrament meetings have you been standing in?
I have never heard anyone speak in a Sacrament meeting agreeing with civil unions.
The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS has always stood against Homosexuality and if you commit that act, you will be excommunicated or dis-fellowshipped.
You are either anti-Mormon, which many of these comments are- or you have never set foot in an LDS church.
What kind of sacrament meetings have you been standing in?
I have never heard anyone speak in a Sacrament meeting agreeing with civil unions.
The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS has always stood against Homosexuality and if you commit that act, you will be excommunicated or dis-fellowshipped.
You are either anti-Mormon, which many of these comments are- or you have never set foot in an LDS church.
Umm... | 1:17 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
"I would really like to know how you Gay and Lesbian Coalition contribute
to society as a group. All I ever see is a "take, take" attitude. If
you would take the time to go give service to someone in need instead of
protesting you would get more respect."
Could you have made it clearer that you've never met a gay person? Like it or not, gays are involved in pretty much every aspect of American society. They contribute to the arts, the sciences, etc. Yes, they do give service. The fact that you think otherwise shows your complete and utter ignorance.
Could you have made it clearer that you've never met a gay person? Like it or not, gays are involved in pretty much every aspect of American society. They contribute to the arts, the sciences, etc. Yes, they do give service. The fact that you think otherwise shows your complete and utter ignorance.
Captain Obvious | 1:19 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Protests are a sign that our democracy is thriving. Good for them.
"It really bothers me that the gays are being so nasty about it. It is exactly how they don't want to be treated. I don't know any LDS people who spew hatred like they are doing towards us."
It's pretty obvious that you haven't been reading this thread. Overall, the Mormon commentators have been far more spiteful and hate-filled (no matter how much they deny it) than the anti-Prop 8 commentators.
"It really bothers me that the gays are being so nasty about it. It is exactly how they don't want to be treated. I don't know any LDS people who spew hatred like they are doing towards us."
It's pretty obvious that you haven't been reading this thread. Overall, the Mormon commentators have been far more spiteful and hate-filled (no matter how much they deny it) than the anti-Prop 8 commentators.
Anonymous | 1:20 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
"When you chose to be gay you consiouscly choose to give up certain rights
and privilages."
"but they need to understand that being choosing to be gay..."
Most gays do not choose to be gay. That fact won't change, no matter how many times you may suggest otherwise.
The End
"but they need to understand that being choosing to be gay..."
Most gays do not choose to be gay. That fact won't change, no matter how many times you may suggest otherwise.
The End
terri | 1:21 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
So who gives anyone the right to say they are right and the gays are wrong..
People arent born and grow up and find out they are gay.. they are born that
way.. with certain genes, hormones, ect that makes their body feel the way it
does.. im not gay, im not LDS, but i feel that this has gone to far.. how many
LDS families have a member that is gay ?? I would bet quite a few, but would
they love them less?? We are all put here on this earth by one person.. Treat
people the way you want to be treated.. If god intended us to be the same, it
would be a very boring world.. God made us all different for a reason. So why
try and tell someone that they cant do something that they feel is right? I have
no problem with people that are gay, ect.. Because they are different doesnt
make them less of a person..
this is all about power | 1:21 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
much has been made of the sacredness of "traditional marriage" ... the
problem is, throughout much of recorded history, women in
"traditional" marriages were nothing but the property of the husband
and were child-producers for the benefit of the husband and his family ... they
were required to bring an acceptable dowry ... if they were royal born, they
often were used to cement strategic alliances between countries ... today,
partners in marriages may, MAY, be somewhat more equal (though i think many
women still have not reached parity) ... but i find it amusing that many of
these newly emancipated now are saying that other human beings should NOT be
able to marry ... for many years the church taught that persons with a
genetically determined skin color were not quite good enough ... that has been
remedied, at least officially ... now the issue is that other people, whose
attraction to the same gender is almost certainly genetic, are being
marginalized ... we haven't learned much, have we?
Re: Roger Johnston | 1:23 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Roger,
If you look at the Bible than Soddom and Gommorah looks pretty foolish and so does any other nation that legitamized homosexuality.
And since you brought up looking back at history, the Book of Mormon is a history of the people on this land and people who were dark or light, woman or man chose the wrong in the majority they were shown to be foolish and suffered the wrath of God. When they chose the right they were blessed and free.
When the people of this country broke the laws of God and had slaves they suffered the wrath of God by having to endure the Civil War.
So, the Founding Fathers were not perfect but they were right about following God just like Christians may appear to be self-righteous sometimes because of their imperfections even though they are right about choosing to live by God's law.
I suggest that people stop looking at the faults and imperfections of those who want to obey God on this subject and instead focus on what God says regardless of which imperfect person is saying it - nobody is perfect and that's why we need to follow God.
If you look at the Bible than Soddom and Gommorah looks pretty foolish and so does any other nation that legitamized homosexuality.
And since you brought up looking back at history, the Book of Mormon is a history of the people on this land and people who were dark or light, woman or man chose the wrong in the majority they were shown to be foolish and suffered the wrath of God. When they chose the right they were blessed and free.
When the people of this country broke the laws of God and had slaves they suffered the wrath of God by having to endure the Civil War.
So, the Founding Fathers were not perfect but they were right about following God just like Christians may appear to be self-righteous sometimes because of their imperfections even though they are right about choosing to live by God's law.
I suggest that people stop looking at the faults and imperfections of those who want to obey God on this subject and instead focus on what God says regardless of which imperfect person is saying it - nobody is perfect and that's why we need to follow God.
God Bless America! | 1:24 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Wouldn't it seem a lot more difficult to say those 3 words if we had
legitamized gay marriage? How about "In God We Trust."
I hope God blesses California.
I hope God blesses California.
Read the History.... | 1:26 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
For all the ranting and raving from gay activists, you are not going to change
millennia of documented history. Take a look back over the documented history
of mankind...from the bible, the koran, the Tanakh and other writings, and ask
yourself...
EVER..EVER..has there been a time in the written history of mankind ANYWHERE on this planet where same sex marriage has EVER, EVER been condoned by a society, and been DOCUMENTED as such, SURVIVED as such and to this day, can it be EVIDENCED as proof that same sex marriage is what all MANKIND want?
In 7,000+ years of documented "NO WAY!", do you honestly expect that you are going to change the minds of a people who honor and love their God?
You expect our God fearing nation to change a fundemental institution founded on HOLY principles in order to condone a behavior that his been recorded for millennia as being a perversion in God's eyes.
No one is taking away your free agency; You can be gay if you want. This nation's people refuse to go against their God, whether He is the God of Israel or Islam and give your perversion the holy name of "Marriage".
EVER..EVER..has there been a time in the written history of mankind ANYWHERE on this planet where same sex marriage has EVER, EVER been condoned by a society, and been DOCUMENTED as such, SURVIVED as such and to this day, can it be EVIDENCED as proof that same sex marriage is what all MANKIND want?
In 7,000+ years of documented "NO WAY!", do you honestly expect that you are going to change the minds of a people who honor and love their God?
You expect our God fearing nation to change a fundemental institution founded on HOLY principles in order to condone a behavior that his been recorded for millennia as being a perversion in God's eyes.
No one is taking away your free agency; You can be gay if you want. This nation's people refuse to go against their God, whether He is the God of Israel or Islam and give your perversion the holy name of "Marriage".
Wuiver | 1:32 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Californias quit whining, it could be worse; you could live in Utah. At least
you had a chance to vote.
Here in Utah ther is no democracy but a theocracy, the church speaks and the legislature and sheep follow. There are no two ways about it.
Be glad you at least had a shot at representation in an election. That stuff just doesn't happen in Utah.
Here in Utah ther is no democracy but a theocracy, the church speaks and the legislature and sheep follow. There are no two ways about it.
Be glad you at least had a shot at representation in an election. That stuff just doesn't happen in Utah.
Shirley | 1:39 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Get a grip folks. Has anyone out there thought of what God says about this. You
cannot make sin right. God says not and we follow what He says. I am a member of
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints and proud of it. I have members
in my family who are attracted to the same gender. They need self control as we
all do. I am thankful for a God who leads us through his Prophet Thomas S
Monson. Enough said
Really? You're Suprised? | 1:39 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
I'm an active member of the church who decided not support prop 8. What
bothers me most about this whole ordeal is the fact that the church got involved
in a heated political issue and is surprised by the negative
press/protests...This is exactly why I'm uncomfortable with the church
& state issues. As church leaders you taught us the principles, let us
govern ourselves.
Used to live in CA | 1:45 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
I find it interesting that the Gay Rights Activists are now protesting after the
vote. If they really didn't want it voted on, they should have protested
when it was originally put on the ballot. Why didn't they? Because they
never thought they would lose in a state as liberal as California. So now, after
they realized that more than half of the state doesn't want them to have
gay marriages in their state, they attack an easy target.
The Yes on 8 campaign did a great job bringing to light the adverse effects of gay marriage rights. Thanks to all of you who funded and supported it. We did what we could to educate Arizonans on Prop 102 and we are glad it passed down here.
The Yes on 8 campaign did a great job bringing to light the adverse effects of gay marriage rights. Thanks to all of you who funded and supported it. We did what we could to educate Arizonans on Prop 102 and we are glad it passed down here.
John Pack Lambert | 1:54 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
It's ridiculous that this debate has gotten so nasty. If two people want to
call their union marriage, I still don't see how that's an attack on
my family. It's not. Are we just looking for fights? We've got real
problems in this country right now...I wish we had this passion about education
and health care.
Sam | 1:58 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
God is dead. Humans have evolvedto the point where a diety is not needed to
answer the unknown. Get over yourselves mormons and this god you speak of. You
look pretty irrational to all us normal people. I know see why Utah is such a
screwed up place. Utah, you can keep you laws and religion. We don't want
either of them here.
To RE: Laura | 2:10 p.m. Nov. 9, 2008
That's right, I believe it because I read it in God's book - the Bible
- which covers the history of the entire Old World and shows that whenever
nations condoned homosexuality they were destroyed and I have this thing called
a survival instinct.
There are other books of scripture like the Torah and the Book of Mormon which also cover the history of entire nations or continents like the New World and testify of the same things.
The world has enough witnesses and histories. Those who do not learn from history repeat the same mistakes. What praphanalia are you reading and how does it trump 7000 years of history?
There are other books of scripture like the Torah and the Book of Mormon which also cover the history of entire nations or continents like the New World and testify of the same things.
The world has enough witnesses and histories. Those who do not learn from history repeat the same mistakes. What praphanalia are you reading and how does it trump 7000 years of history?
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