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Prop. 8 protest draws thousands in Salt Lake City
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Christians have Civil Rights too | 7:43 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
And Gays/Lesbians think that this is a matter of civil rights, what about the
civil rights of Christians?????
In Massachusetts, kindergarteners are read books about homosexuality ending with men kissing men. "The King and the King"
One family wanted the ability to opt out on their children being inside the classroom when homosexuality was discussed and the school officials arrested the father. The parents are now home schooling their children.
In Massachusetts, kindergarteners are read books about homosexuality ending with men kissing men. "The King and the King"
One family wanted the ability to opt out on their children being inside the classroom when homosexuality was discussed and the school officials arrested the father. The parents are now home schooling their children.
Bring it on dictator | 7:43 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
NowAntiMormon,
"Good job showing the world you are a bunch of discriminatory, hateful people, who come from a long long history of abusive religions. I hope you get your tax exempt status pulled."
For what? For our members voting in an election and donating of our own money to support those causes we believe in? The actual Church made a single in-kind donation of $2,078.97 to cover the travel of Church leaders who went to California to attend a meeting.
"Shoving your beliefs down other peoples throats and denying them the same basic human rights other enjoy is disgusting."
It's you who are shoving your belief down our throat and want to force the majority to obey you because you feel a minority has the right to change the law even though you aren't discriminated under it. It is disgusting and you are tyrant and a bigot. Now shut up and stop attacking those I love for our votes and our rights.
What are you going to do next? Stone an atheist to death? Burn some women at the stake? Maybe start a mormon inquisition? Bravo."
So that is how you want to play it. You terrorize us.
"Good job showing the world you are a bunch of discriminatory, hateful people, who come from a long long history of abusive religions. I hope you get your tax exempt status pulled."
For what? For our members voting in an election and donating of our own money to support those causes we believe in? The actual Church made a single in-kind donation of $2,078.97 to cover the travel of Church leaders who went to California to attend a meeting.
"Shoving your beliefs down other peoples throats and denying them the same basic human rights other enjoy is disgusting."
It's you who are shoving your belief down our throat and want to force the majority to obey you because you feel a minority has the right to change the law even though you aren't discriminated under it. It is disgusting and you are tyrant and a bigot. Now shut up and stop attacking those I love for our votes and our rights.
What are you going to do next? Stone an atheist to death? Burn some women at the stake? Maybe start a mormon inquisition? Bravo."
So that is how you want to play it. You terrorize us.
Comments continue below
Civil Unions | 7:46 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
How about we make "civil unions" the only thing the government does
administer (for everyone) and then leave the churches to do whatever they wish?
You could still give Catholic, Evangelical, etc. ministers the authority to
perform legally-binding civil unions and then they can follow up with any type
of ceremony they wish and call it whatever they like. Make everyone pay the same
fees for a civil union license, and give everyone the same legal status, and
everyone will have the same "civil right."
Why are homosexuals so bent on co-opting the word "marriage"?
This is not about civil rights as there are reasonable solutions (e.g. above) upon which a majority will agree, especially in California. (Try going down South with your tirade--good luck!.) This is all about "If you don't embrace my lifestyle, you are forcing your lifestyle on me!" Push people long enough and they will push back. Back off and talk.
Unless your more moderate voices stand up in protest of the hateful extremists currently leading your rabble, you will set your "movement" back years. Cool off a bit and try to understand why you lost in three states. (Please don't conclude it was the Mormons!)
Why are homosexuals so bent on co-opting the word "marriage"?
This is not about civil rights as there are reasonable solutions (e.g. above) upon which a majority will agree, especially in California. (Try going down South with your tirade--good luck!.) This is all about "If you don't embrace my lifestyle, you are forcing your lifestyle on me!" Push people long enough and they will push back. Back off and talk.
Unless your more moderate voices stand up in protest of the hateful extremists currently leading your rabble, you will set your "movement" back years. Cool off a bit and try to understand why you lost in three states. (Please don't conclude it was the Mormons!)
They do to terrorize CA voters | 7:54 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
ProgressivePerson,
"I for one find the Church's actions in this situation very hypocritical. They name their church after Jesus Christ yet there is absolutely nothing Christ-like about their behavior in this matter. Jesus Christ was a compassionate man who loved and accepted all-lepers,sinners, and homosexuals."
Jesus didn't condone or approve of sin. He accepted people who were repentant of their sins and did not judge them unless they continued in sin.
"If homosexuality is indeed wrong as the Church claims it to be, then homosexuals will be judged by God in the end. It is not the role of mere mortals to pass judgement on their own."
But you seem intent on passing judgment on us but that is different isn't it because you are always right and those of us who disagree with you must be demonized even though the Church spent a mere 2,000 dollars while other religions spent 100 times that and I mean that literally since the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops donated $200,000.
I have no problem with gays living their life as they choose but I will not stand by as they force their beliefs on others and try to terrorize the majority.
"I for one find the Church's actions in this situation very hypocritical. They name their church after Jesus Christ yet there is absolutely nothing Christ-like about their behavior in this matter. Jesus Christ was a compassionate man who loved and accepted all-lepers,sinners, and homosexuals."
Jesus didn't condone or approve of sin. He accepted people who were repentant of their sins and did not judge them unless they continued in sin.
"If homosexuality is indeed wrong as the Church claims it to be, then homosexuals will be judged by God in the end. It is not the role of mere mortals to pass judgement on their own."
But you seem intent on passing judgment on us but that is different isn't it because you are always right and those of us who disagree with you must be demonized even though the Church spent a mere 2,000 dollars while other religions spent 100 times that and I mean that literally since the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops donated $200,000.
I have no problem with gays living their life as they choose but I will not stand by as they force their beliefs on others and try to terrorize the majority.
Anonymous | 7:54 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
The Book or Mormon, like the 'Holy' Bible, is a nice read.
MoHo | 8:01 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
When the Church steps into the political arena, which is an unfair arena by
definition, it should expect this sort of thing. No one made the Church be so
public about Prop. 8 except the Church; it got itself into this mess.
ExMo Chad | 8:06 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
LOL...
Oregon celebrates pioneer day too. We are so glad they stopped in Utah.
Oregon celebrates pioneer day too. We are so glad they stopped in Utah.
Let's get real here | 8:09 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
There were about 11 million people who voted on this prop 8. Over 5.5 mill voted
to over turn it. Do you really think the LDS church had that much influence over
this. There's probably not even one million members in that state. Most
are just free thinkers and are not going to listen to the LDS church anyways.
Most people voted yes to overturn it because that's they way they
personally believe it should be. Marching on Temple Square over this result is
just plan stupid by these folks.
Brandon | 8:18 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I am all for civil unions myself, just as long as it's the only option for
heterosexual couples as well.
These people are tyrants | 8:29 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Let's get real here,
"There were about 11 million people who voted on this prop 8. Over 5.5 mill voted to over turn it. Do you really think the LDS church had that much influence over this."
Not when we have less than a million members in California and the Church only made one in-kind donation of $2,078.97 to pay for the travel of Church leaders to attend a meeting in California.
"There's probably not even one million members in that state."
There isn't. There just a little over 900,000 and not all of them are qualified to vote, registered nor did all of them vote and some didn't support Prop. 8.
"Marching on Temple Square over this result is just plan stupid by these folks."
It also shows their willingness to terrorize anyone who disagrees with them and has the audacity to vote in a way they don't permit us to. Furthermore, our in-kind donation doesn't come anywhere near what the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops donated.
As for individual Mormons choosing to donate to support Prop. 8. That is their right and the Church didn't force them to. I didn't donate a single dime to Prop. 8.
"There were about 11 million people who voted on this prop 8. Over 5.5 mill voted to over turn it. Do you really think the LDS church had that much influence over this."
Not when we have less than a million members in California and the Church only made one in-kind donation of $2,078.97 to pay for the travel of Church leaders to attend a meeting in California.
"There's probably not even one million members in that state."
There isn't. There just a little over 900,000 and not all of them are qualified to vote, registered nor did all of them vote and some didn't support Prop. 8.
"Marching on Temple Square over this result is just plan stupid by these folks."
It also shows their willingness to terrorize anyone who disagrees with them and has the audacity to vote in a way they don't permit us to. Furthermore, our in-kind donation doesn't come anywhere near what the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops donated.
As for individual Mormons choosing to donate to support Prop. 8. That is their right and the Church didn't force them to. I didn't donate a single dime to Prop. 8.
A friend | 8:29 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
It is so amazing to me that the LDS Church was the only one singled out --there
were many other religions that participated in the Prop 8 results--please lets
at least be fair!!!!! The LDS Church made a proclamation on the family and what
constitutes a family long before Prop 8 was ever a consideration--why not defend
a belief and not let a minority of people decide what is right and what is
wrong!!! The LDS church has spoken--please respect its views.
not even a minority | 8:41 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
The belief that 10 percent of the population is homosexual is based on
discredited research done by Indiana University zoologist Dr. Alfred Kinsey in
the mid-20th century. More recent research puts the number between 1 and 3
percent.
Why should 1 - 3 percent of the US population tell the other 99-97 percent of us how we should perform our marriages.
The state of California handled this correctly,
52 percent said NO-
Just ** LIVE WITH IT. **
Why should 1 - 3 percent of the US population tell the other 99-97 percent of us how we should perform our marriages.
The state of California handled this correctly,
52 percent said NO-
Just ** LIVE WITH IT. **
Anonymous | 8:42 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Prop 8 passed! Time to accept it!
You could always move to MASS to get married!
Remember and never forget that, Marriage is ORDAINED OF GOD!
We will keep all of you protestors in our prayers, God knows you need them!
It's really sad to see the reaction be so hateful and violent especially in Los Angeles!
By their fruits ye shall know them!!
You could always move to MASS to get married!
Remember and never forget that, Marriage is ORDAINED OF GOD!
We will keep all of you protestors in our prayers, God knows you need them!
It's really sad to see the reaction be so hateful and violent especially in Los Angeles!
By their fruits ye shall know them!!
John | 8:45 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Gays have the same rights as everyone else, including marriage to an
opposite-gender partner as is granted to everyone else. What they are demanding
and trying to intimidate others for are special privileges to redefine society
in their image. Why do they assume that their sexuality should give them special
status above and beyond other Americans?
It's time to worship our masters | 8:48 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
A friend,
"It is so amazing to me that the LDS Church was the only one singled out --there were many other religions that participated in the Prop 8 results--please lets at least be fair!!!!!"
There is over 11 million Catholics in California compared to a mere 900,000 or so Mormons. The U.S. Conference of Bishops donated $200,000 in support of Prop. 8 while the LDS Church made a single in-kind donation of $2,078.97 to cover the travel costs of Church leaders who attended a meeting in California.
There's a difference between targeting a Church who represents less than 2% of the population for supporting Prop. 8 while not protesting the Catholic Church that makes up about 34% of the population of California for its support of Prop. 8?
They see the LDS Church as the low-hanging fruit which they can pick off to teach others that they will destroy anyone who doesn't bow down and worship them. The Church isn't afraid though and will not be intimidated. We see this for what it is. Intolerant bigoted tyrants who want to deny the majority its freedoms and rights by trying to change the law by minority fiat.
"It is so amazing to me that the LDS Church was the only one singled out --there were many other religions that participated in the Prop 8 results--please lets at least be fair!!!!!"
There is over 11 million Catholics in California compared to a mere 900,000 or so Mormons. The U.S. Conference of Bishops donated $200,000 in support of Prop. 8 while the LDS Church made a single in-kind donation of $2,078.97 to cover the travel costs of Church leaders who attended a meeting in California.
There's a difference between targeting a Church who represents less than 2% of the population for supporting Prop. 8 while not protesting the Catholic Church that makes up about 34% of the population of California for its support of Prop. 8?
They see the LDS Church as the low-hanging fruit which they can pick off to teach others that they will destroy anyone who doesn't bow down and worship them. The Church isn't afraid though and will not be intimidated. We see this for what it is. Intolerant bigoted tyrants who want to deny the majority its freedoms and rights by trying to change the law by minority fiat.
Sophie | 8:53 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
To: A friend
The LDS church was singled out because they gave the largest percentage of financial support to support prop 8 and were very public about it. Their intolerance simply had a boomerang effect.
The LDS church was singled out because they gave the largest percentage of financial support to support prop 8 and were very public about it. Their intolerance simply had a boomerang effect.
... | 8:53 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Marriage is a religous institution not a political. Twenty years ago the gay
community called marriage an antiquated instition from the dark ages. So now
they have to have it. What changed....oh that's right the money. Now they
want the insurance money. So much for principles.
Jim | 8:54 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Between stealing, vandalism, slandering, attempted intimidation, death threats,
singling out scapegoats, and other forms of hate, these people are starting to
make totalitarian regimes look pathetic. The wiser step would have been simply
to go to the California polling places and destroy any ballots with
'Yes' votes (which would have been congruent with their lack of
respect for democracy).
Kim | 8:57 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
"The ProtectMarriage coalition, which led the successful campaign to pass
Proposition 8, was an historic alliance of people from every faith and
ethnicity. LDS were included � but so were Catholics and
Jews, Evangelicals and Orthodox, African-Americans and Latinos, Asians and
Anglos."
Only 2% of the population of California are Mormons. That is a small part of the population. If LDS Church had that much power don't you think there would be a bigger percentage of LDS members in California? 52% of the population passed this law. Do the math 52%-2%(LDS)= 50% that is non LDS!
Only 2% of the population of California are Mormons. That is a small part of the population. If LDS Church had that much power don't you think there would be a bigger percentage of LDS members in California? 52% of the population passed this law. Do the math 52%-2%(LDS)= 50% that is non LDS!
Nonsense | 8:59 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
To: not even a minority
If we follow your logic, why should California, with over 30 million residents, listen to a tiny sect like Mormonism? Get over it yourself!
If we follow your logic, why should California, with over 30 million residents, listen to a tiny sect like Mormonism? Get over it yourself!
California - Yes on 8 Volunteer | 9:00 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I was happy to be a volunteer for the Yes on 8 campaign and to donate my time
and money. People of all faiths joined with us to help pass this important
proposition.
I'm told there are about 750,000 LDS people in Calif. and there were over 5 million "yes" votes cast. Obviously there are other people who believe that traditional marriage is what they want for society.
This is the SECOND Calif. vote! Prop 22 passed in 2000 at 61% and now again in 2008 at 52%!
The African American vote was 7 to 3 in favor of this proposition. The Latino vote was 53% in favor of Prop 8.
If Prop 8 had not passed I don't see all of us going up to West Hollywood, Long Beach, Laguna Beach or San Francisco to protest. We would accept the will of the people. Those protesting obviously are not. They were so convinced this would not pass.
The people who are protesting have no idea how much support that people of other faiths are showing to those of us who are LDS during this time. They are shocked at the outlash toward the Mormons.
I'm told there are about 750,000 LDS people in Calif. and there were over 5 million "yes" votes cast. Obviously there are other people who believe that traditional marriage is what they want for society.
This is the SECOND Calif. vote! Prop 22 passed in 2000 at 61% and now again in 2008 at 52%!
The African American vote was 7 to 3 in favor of this proposition. The Latino vote was 53% in favor of Prop 8.
If Prop 8 had not passed I don't see all of us going up to West Hollywood, Long Beach, Laguna Beach or San Francisco to protest. We would accept the will of the people. Those protesting obviously are not. They were so convinced this would not pass.
The people who are protesting have no idea how much support that people of other faiths are showing to those of us who are LDS during this time. They are shocked at the outlash toward the Mormons.
Anonymous | 9:01 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Go get married in Mass. or Conn. it's still legal there. If gays want to
get married, do it, I don't care, just don't bring your issues into
the classroom and into my children's lives, they have enough to deal with,
they don't need to hear about men being with men blah blah blah. I
don't want to be the one to explain how that works because some teacher has
to explain it in school
Clear Thinker | 9:01 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Hey Warrior heart,
The LDS Church has not done ANYTHING to promote hatred to these guys. The only thing the Church has done is to reaffirm their position that marriage should be between a man and a woman. It's amazing that we even have to define that, but this is how crazed the left has gotten.
On the other hand, you've got these crazies running around, threatening lives, name calling (homophobic, bigoted, narrow-minded, etc.), parking vans outside of prop 8 supporters homes with signs accusing the occupants of being all kinds of things, vandalizing LDS temples, mocking doctrines and buildings that are sacred to LDS, threatening to hire private investigators to look into the lives of prop 8 supporters, and so on. Why? Because some LDS chose to exercize their constitutional rights of expression and political action?
THIS IS TOLERANCE? THIS IS FREE SPEECH? The left has no intention of tolerance/free speech. They want us to accept their ideals, and we can just cram it. Well, for one, I don't accept that pathetic arrangement.
The LDS Church has not done ANYTHING to promote hatred to these guys. The only thing the Church has done is to reaffirm their position that marriage should be between a man and a woman. It's amazing that we even have to define that, but this is how crazed the left has gotten.
On the other hand, you've got these crazies running around, threatening lives, name calling (homophobic, bigoted, narrow-minded, etc.), parking vans outside of prop 8 supporters homes with signs accusing the occupants of being all kinds of things, vandalizing LDS temples, mocking doctrines and buildings that are sacred to LDS, threatening to hire private investigators to look into the lives of prop 8 supporters, and so on. Why? Because some LDS chose to exercize their constitutional rights of expression and political action?
THIS IS TOLERANCE? THIS IS FREE SPEECH? The left has no intention of tolerance/free speech. They want us to accept their ideals, and we can just cram it. Well, for one, I don't accept that pathetic arrangement.
Charlotte | 9:02 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
To: not even a minority
Modern research has concluded that between 2 and 7 percent of people are exclusively homosexual, not 1 in 3, as you stated.
Even if it were lower than 1 percent, it is unconstitutional to vote to ratify legislation that oppresses a minority without the 2/3 majority of legislators at the very least. Our founding fathers knew this and designed our constitution for these very situations. It's Constitution 101. Prop 8 will never last.
Modern research has concluded that between 2 and 7 percent of people are exclusively homosexual, not 1 in 3, as you stated.
Even if it were lower than 1 percent, it is unconstitutional to vote to ratify legislation that oppresses a minority without the 2/3 majority of legislators at the very least. Our founding fathers knew this and designed our constitution for these very situations. It's Constitution 101. Prop 8 will never last.
Wow | 9:10 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Over 800 comments on this article alone. I get the feeling that neither side is
going to budge; yet both sides blame the other. I am convinced that the LDS
church will not get the Lord to change his mind. I am convinced that
gays/lesbians as a group are not going to quietly go away. What are we going to
do?
Theodora | 9:12 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
The number of Mormon people in California is irrelevant. It's the amount
of financial support that the Mormons donated to the "Yes on 8"
campaign which has made them the target of protest. Try to use a little logic.
To all the hateful tyrants | 9:12 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Sophie,
"The LDS church was singled out because they gave the largest percentage of financial support to support prop 8 and were very public about it. Their intolerance simply had a boomerang effect."
The LDS Church didn't donate any money to support Prop. 8 except to make a single in-kind donation of $2,078.97 to cover the travel expenses for Church leaders who went to California.
On the other hand the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops donated $200,000 and the Knights of Columbus donated $1 million. In addition the California Conference of Catholic Bishops issued the following statement "...we strongly encourage Catholics to provide both the financial support and the volunteer efforts needed for the passage of Proposition 8."
The LDS Church issued a similar statement and some members chose to respond to that request. Others did not.
If you take the total $27 million that individual Mormons donated and divide it by an average of $5,000 (some would have given more and some less) we arrive at a total of 5,400 Mormons donating to Yes on Prop. 8. Thats a small percentage of the Church's membership.
No matter how you look at it. The Church played a very small role.
"The LDS church was singled out because they gave the largest percentage of financial support to support prop 8 and were very public about it. Their intolerance simply had a boomerang effect."
The LDS Church didn't donate any money to support Prop. 8 except to make a single in-kind donation of $2,078.97 to cover the travel expenses for Church leaders who went to California.
On the other hand the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops donated $200,000 and the Knights of Columbus donated $1 million. In addition the California Conference of Catholic Bishops issued the following statement "...we strongly encourage Catholics to provide both the financial support and the volunteer efforts needed for the passage of Proposition 8."
The LDS Church issued a similar statement and some members chose to respond to that request. Others did not.
If you take the total $27 million that individual Mormons donated and divide it by an average of $5,000 (some would have given more and some less) we arrive at a total of 5,400 Mormons donating to Yes on Prop. 8. Thats a small percentage of the Church's membership.
No matter how you look at it. The Church played a very small role.
RE: Mormons Out 6:03pm | 9:14 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Since the Mormons were not the only ones to vote against the proposition are you
treating the Catholics,Latinos and the African Americans, etc the same at your
company.
I hope that one of your "lay-offs" is reading these comments and figures out who you are and then takes legal steps to handle it!
I hope that one of your "lay-offs" is reading these comments and figures out who you are and then takes legal steps to handle it!
D-funk | 9:25 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I can't understand just what rights that they are talking about? I
don't have the right to marry another man, my wife doesn't have the
right to marry another woman. There is no unequal treatment. Besides, nobody is
saying eliminate domestic partnerships, they just don't want the definition
of marriage to be destroyed. Why all the fuss? Can't the GLTC let it be? In
my opinion it's them trying to destroy my right to marriage (husband and
wife).
Jenibobeni | 9:26 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
My questions for the the "No on Prop 8" protesters: Do you need the
state to tell you you're married? Do you need the state to validate your
relationship and by extension your sexuality? Do you need everyone to approve of
your lifestyle? My advice to you is to accept yourselves and stop asking others
to accept you.
Stop deluding yourself | 9:29 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Charlotte,
"Modern research has concluded that between 2 and 7 percent of people are exclusively homosexual, not 1 in 3, as you stated."
7% of U.S. population is approximately 21,079,796 or an average of 421,595 people per state.
Your statistics are really screwed up if you think that many people have been proven to be exclusively gay. A 7% exclusively gay population would result in a drastic decrease in our population over the years. California's population is 36,553,215. The adult population of California is 26,100,000 which would mean that 7% of the population of California who are gay would be 2,558,725. If that was true then this vote should have easily went no on Prop. 8. Just over 10 million people voted in California which means that a dedicated population of 2.5 million would be half of their total vote.
This numbers may not be 100% correct but you get the message. For 7% of the population to be gay would have results in a) this proposition overwhelmingly passing or a very high percentage of heterosexuals are opposed to same-sex marriage, and b) with that kind of population being exclusively gay it would result in a drastic population decrease.
"Modern research has concluded that between 2 and 7 percent of people are exclusively homosexual, not 1 in 3, as you stated."
7% of U.S. population is approximately 21,079,796 or an average of 421,595 people per state.
Your statistics are really screwed up if you think that many people have been proven to be exclusively gay. A 7% exclusively gay population would result in a drastic decrease in our population over the years. California's population is 36,553,215. The adult population of California is 26,100,000 which would mean that 7% of the population of California who are gay would be 2,558,725. If that was true then this vote should have easily went no on Prop. 8. Just over 10 million people voted in California which means that a dedicated population of 2.5 million would be half of their total vote.
This numbers may not be 100% correct but you get the message. For 7% of the population to be gay would have results in a) this proposition overwhelmingly passing or a very high percentage of heterosexuals are opposed to same-sex marriage, and b) with that kind of population being exclusively gay it would result in a drastic population decrease.
Adam | 9:35 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I hate California anyways. Let's put it for a vote in Utah
Eliza | 9:37 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I truly believe it is only a matter of time before the resolution is made that
the government's only duty is to grant couples civil liberties thus giving
civil unions to both heterosexual and homosexual life partners.
Let marriage be governed different from church to church. The abstract criteria and ideals of the label of "marriage" can be left for the institutions from which they came to sort out. If marriage is sought, a couple could then go find a church which welcomes them, giving same-sex couples a number of options (i.e. Episcopal, MCC).
I can see no other solution which would appease everyone, a solution for which we should all be striving together.
Let marriage be governed different from church to church. The abstract criteria and ideals of the label of "marriage" can be left for the institutions from which they came to sort out. If marriage is sought, a couple could then go find a church which welcomes them, giving same-sex couples a number of options (i.e. Episcopal, MCC).
I can see no other solution which would appease everyone, a solution for which we should all be striving together.
Esme | 9:47 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Stop deluding,
If you are wary of the results of modern research, you may hastily look up the current statistics on the online encyclopedia of your preference under "homosexuality." There you can also be informed of the sources of the research conducted.
If you are wary of the results of modern research, you may hastily look up the current statistics on the online encyclopedia of your preference under "homosexuality." There you can also be informed of the sources of the research conducted.
RE: Mormons out | 9:50 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Who was the lousy 'HR' director that states they fire people based on
religious beliefs? If you think this is an idea that helps your company, you may
want to publicize it as a special advantage that consumers would want from you.
Don't let it being not only unethical but also illegal stop you, convince
them how much morally superior you are that you can make such a decision against
the laws of the land and probably the policies of your own company.
Howdy from Cali | 9:51 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I think the LDS Church is the only organization in the world who can elicit
protests and picketing from both the evangelical community and gay rights mob
(though for very different reasons, of course). On that basis alone we must be
doing something right. Should make for an exciting General Conference next
spring! Life is good!
Aaron C. | 9:51 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
RE: Eliza 9:37pm
That's a well thought out, intelligent comment. I like your plan. Count me in.
Hopefully we can all be civil to one another on the inevitable path to acceptance.
Most of the things being said here (on both sides of the argument) would NEVER be said if we were all in the same room together.
That's a well thought out, intelligent comment. I like your plan. Count me in.
Hopefully we can all be civil to one another on the inevitable path to acceptance.
Most of the things being said here (on both sides of the argument) would NEVER be said if we were all in the same room together.
big momma | 10:02 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Those who continue to protest against prop 8 are only hurting themselves. When
they deface private property and yell hateful things to to anyone who disagrees
with them, it only makes me feel stronger about keeping the definition of
marriage only between a man and a woman. Go home to CA or maybe you should move
to MA?
THE BIBLE SAYS . . . | 10:04 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Hey the last time I checked the Bible's first marriage was between Adam and
Eve, not Adam and Steve!
Book my tickets! | 10:12 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Great! TRUE marriage has been defended, and the gay agenda has been revealed for
what it REALLY is.
I live in California, and I got to vote YES on Prop. 8. It felt GREAT. Marriage isn't about two people in love wanting to share their lives together. A civil union accomplishes that. Marriage is about bringing kids into the world (that takes a man and a woman) and ASSURING kids' rights to having a male role-model and a female role-model. Marriage isn't about rights, it's about what is RIGHT, and "gay marriage" isn't it. You may eventually legalize it and gain worldly acceptance and validation, but it will NEVER be right in the eyes of God.
I live in California, and I got to vote YES on Prop. 8. It felt GREAT. Marriage isn't about two people in love wanting to share their lives together. A civil union accomplishes that. Marriage is about bringing kids into the world (that takes a man and a woman) and ASSURING kids' rights to having a male role-model and a female role-model. Marriage isn't about rights, it's about what is RIGHT, and "gay marriage" isn't it. You may eventually legalize it and gain worldly acceptance and validation, but it will NEVER be right in the eyes of God.
Granny Girl | 10:14 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I live in CA and worked to pass Prop. 8 - and reading all the comments above, I
am amazed at the lack of factual information some of you have. To "Ashamed
to have ever been a Mormon", please find out the correct information before
you write. Yes, indeed, the California Education Code says that marriage will
be, and is now,taught in schools. If the "NO" vote had won, new text
books and new curriculn materials etc. would have to be provided for all public
schools. And yes, there is a distinct possiblility that, if the "no"
proposition had passed, churches would be required to perform gay marriages, or
lose their right to perform marriages. No doubt you would love to see no more
temple marriages in California temples?? It seems to me that the gay community
has given themselves special names, and set themselves aside in special groups
etc. -- why can't the gay community create a name special to themselves for
the civil unions already permitted that would make it their own special
"marriage"? Under the civil union provision, they already have all the
civil rights that a man/woman marriage has.
Cybele | 10:15 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Don't forget that Connecticut now ALSO allows gay marriages, not just
Massachusetts.
Lynn | 10:20 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I am LDS, and if I had been a resident of CA, I would have voted Yes on 8, too.
Marriage is a sacred ordinance, between a man and a woman. It should stay that
way. Let gays have civil unions, with legal rights, but not marriage.
The past few days, since the Election, have been sad for me. I supported Barack Obama, and I'm very happy he won, but I have lost a friend over it, who thinks Mormons can't be Democrats, and have the Spirit with them.
Then, when I heard about the vandalism at the Los Angeles Temple, and saw the pictures on the news, I cried.
I have never seen as much hate and bigotry as happened with this Election. The anti-Mormon sentiment was rampant with Romney's candidacy. Then, the videos of Republican rallies,with threats against Obama, fear and bigotry because of his name, lies and smears, etc. made me sick. Now this, one of the Temples being forced to shut down, by a mob of angry protesters who didn't get their way!
Satan is alive and well, and feeding on all the contention. Is persecution far behind?
The past few days, since the Election, have been sad for me. I supported Barack Obama, and I'm very happy he won, but I have lost a friend over it, who thinks Mormons can't be Democrats, and have the Spirit with them.
Then, when I heard about the vandalism at the Los Angeles Temple, and saw the pictures on the news, I cried.
I have never seen as much hate and bigotry as happened with this Election. The anti-Mormon sentiment was rampant with Romney's candidacy. Then, the videos of Republican rallies,with threats against Obama, fear and bigotry because of his name, lies and smears, etc. made me sick. Now this, one of the Temples being forced to shut down, by a mob of angry protesters who didn't get their way!
Satan is alive and well, and feeding on all the contention. Is persecution far behind?
mom of three | 10:23 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
For those who keep saying how hypocritical it is for the church to say they
believe in acceptance and love for all and then urge members to vote for prop 8,
let me fill you in. We are NOT taught to accept and love sin. We are taught to
love all mankind, but not sin! We believe the bible and it teaches that
homosexuality is an abomination before God. God does not change or He would
cease to be God. Therefore, the church will not change its' views on
homosexuality no matter how many protest or even how many members are upset by
this. Protesting won't change anything, it just stirs the pot.
Wendy | 10:23 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I wonder why we supported Prop 8... hmmm, maybe because it's an abomination
before God and flat out disgusting.
Anonymous | 10:36 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Hey "Mormons Out," can I have job?? I'm tired of having to lie
about my gentile status in job interviews.
Jonas | 10:38 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Since most people here are stuck in the past, I have observed far more parallels
to the corrupt Pharisees from the Mormons than I have observed parallels to
Christ's teachings. Just my personal observation.
Doodles | 10:39 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
After reading all 17 pages of comments on this story this evening, I want to say
just a few things.
When a man and a woman commit socially, financially and sexually to one another, our word for that commitment is "marriage." That is what it is called.
Two men or two women making a sexual committment to one another is called "homosexuality," meaning one sex. Among religious people of all major faiths and through all recorded time, this has been a sexual perversion and a sin.
I personally object to allowing sodomy to be enshrined in law and to call it marriage. I am a Christian and believe the Bible and it's teachings on homosexuality. I take serious issue with the anonymous post that proclaimed "Our country wasn't designed to enforce the Bible." That is not true. The motto of the United States of America is "In God We Trust."
I believe that those who choose to practice homosexuality damage themselves and our society and its Christian virtues.
I believe that homosexuals have the right to choose, for themselves. They also have consequences for their choices.
Many of the comments on these 17 pages are heartbreaking to me.
When a man and a woman commit socially, financially and sexually to one another, our word for that commitment is "marriage." That is what it is called.
Two men or two women making a sexual committment to one another is called "homosexuality," meaning one sex. Among religious people of all major faiths and through all recorded time, this has been a sexual perversion and a sin.
I personally object to allowing sodomy to be enshrined in law and to call it marriage. I am a Christian and believe the Bible and it's teachings on homosexuality. I take serious issue with the anonymous post that proclaimed "Our country wasn't designed to enforce the Bible." That is not true. The motto of the United States of America is "In God We Trust."
I believe that those who choose to practice homosexuality damage themselves and our society and its Christian virtues.
I believe that homosexuals have the right to choose, for themselves. They also have consequences for their choices.
Many of the comments on these 17 pages are heartbreaking to me.
Anonymous | 10:49 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Let them be gay. There's no future in it. It will die out with each
individual generation.
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Are you kidding me? Protect children? Are you implying that gays are dangerous to kids?