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Prop. 8 protest draws thousands in Salt Lake City
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DB | 11:59 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I wish the LGBT community would stop whining and accept the word of the people
(true democracy).
When LDS people couldn't convince the local and federal government with a petition for help, they fled to avoid persecution... maybe not a bad idea for other groups (i.e.. LGBT)...
Just a thought...
When LDS people couldn't convince the local and federal government with a petition for help, they fled to avoid persecution... maybe not a bad idea for other groups (i.e.. LGBT)...
Just a thought...
To: Boyd Hendersen 10:57 | 12:05 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Boyd, you are excellent at giving half truths. I am very impressed. God did
say "it is not good for man to be alone". Then what did he do to
rectify the problem. He created Eve. And what a wonderful woman she was. God
rectified the problem by creating a woman. You will also find many references
in the Bible about marrying is between man and wife. Please state all the facts
when you are quoting scripture rather than just half truths.
Comments continue below
Anna | 12:07 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
There were no rights taken away here. The people in CA still have the right to
marry anyone they choose... of the opposite sex. ;)
Seriously, How can these people single out the LDS church? The last time I checked the LDS population is roughly 2% in CA. It certainly takes more then 2% of the total population to get a proposition passed. The proposition passed by 4.6 percentage points. So if every LDS person in CA didn't vote the measure still would have passed. These people need to get it through their thick skulls that this is the will of the people in CA and not a church pushing its agenda on the people of CA, AZ and FL!!!
Seriously, How can these people single out the LDS church? The last time I checked the LDS population is roughly 2% in CA. It certainly takes more then 2% of the total population to get a proposition passed. The proposition passed by 4.6 percentage points. So if every LDS person in CA didn't vote the measure still would have passed. These people need to get it through their thick skulls that this is the will of the people in CA and not a church pushing its agenda on the people of CA, AZ and FL!!!
to DB | 12:13 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
And that's why our nation was founded as a republic, because too often the
will of the people fails to protect the rights of all citizens. Democracy
trends with the philosophy of the moment causing upheaval around every beguiling
fad. For stability and prosperity look to less is more.
To Svoboda | 12:15 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Your opinions always make me laugh. Surely you know your name means
"freedom" in Russian and other Slavic languages. So why the
compliance-officer mentality all the time?
14 pages of comments! | 12:16 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I'm all for standing for something, but really. 600+ comments. Get a hobby.
Go rake some leaves. Read a book or volunteer somewhere.
And to those of you PREACHING to me about my salvation. Ummmm ...... Wait, let me check ... Hang on ..........
Nope. Still don't care what you think about how I live my life or what I do in private. Because, oh yeah, it's none of your BUSINESS.
And to those of you PREACHING to me about my salvation. Ummmm ...... Wait, let me check ... Hang on ..........
Nope. Still don't care what you think about how I live my life or what I do in private. Because, oh yeah, it's none of your BUSINESS.
Think | 12:19 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Gays were singled out first for discrimination. Folks feel richteous by pointing
out the sinners, yet we are all sinners. This is a civil matter, not religious.
No one is asking the Mormon church to change their beliefs or perform gay
marriages. Gays just want the civil rights (not religioius that come with
marriage. Rights of inheritance, heath coverage for a spouse and the children of
that spouse, there are over 1000 rights that only come with marriage.
That's what gays want. They aren't interested in the religous side of
it.
Sad to see so many hard hearted people who don't respect the beliefs of other citizens. Shall we bash athiests now?
Sad to see so many hard hearted people who don't respect the beliefs of other citizens. Shall we bash athiests now?
jan collins | 12:20 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
how dare you was my first reaction - since then i have taken a new route -- i
have told my friends to not buy products from the state of utah - not to visit
the state of utah - and to write to you all about how they feel about the mormon
church paying for and working on projects that are meant to hurt people.
hate hurts - and if you don't understand that you folks have done this through hate and NOT love then you need a civic lesson about the rights of individuals.
i hope that you change your attitude and denounce the actions that you have taken in california, alaska, arizona, and the list goes on ---- i don't care what you do as individuals but please keep your prejudices to yourself."
jan collins
hate hurts - and if you don't understand that you folks have done this through hate and NOT love then you need a civic lesson about the rights of individuals.
i hope that you change your attitude and denounce the actions that you have taken in california, alaska, arizona, and the list goes on ---- i don't care what you do as individuals but please keep your prejudices to yourself."
jan collins
prophecy fufilled | 12:23 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I find it interesting that those who claim the mantle of "tolerence"
only believes it applies when their ideas or beliefs aren't chaleenged or
contradicted. We (as an LDS people) have been subject to much worse than this ,
and it is just going to become more pronounced as the division between
what's right and what's wrong becomes more blurred. Doing those
things, in our homes, which we know to be right is far more efeective than any
counter protest could be ( remember to pray for those who spitefully use you? )
what would the Savior be doing right know?
Travis Gibby | 12:25 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
The LDS church has exercised their first amendment rights. These people have a
right to exercise theirs too. The LDS Church is saying that they have been
singled out, but the simple fact is that 45% of the out-of-state funds came from
Utah donors which is largely a response to the LDS church's stance urging
members to donate to protectmarriage.
The protest last night was a peaceful demonstration. Those who pretend that it was anything other than that betray their own homophobia. I watched a man on the news stand up and say, "I do not hate Mormons and neither should you." and the whole crowd cheered.
I hope that one day people will stop bickering over what consenting adults do in private. Don't we have more important things to worry about? Why does the government need to define marriage at all? If you think that gay marriage is wrong, don't marry someone of the same sex. But I think that for the government to define marriage as exclusively between a man and a woman sends the message that homosexuals are second class citizens. If expressing that makes me intollerant than I'll just have to be intollerant.
The protest last night was a peaceful demonstration. Those who pretend that it was anything other than that betray their own homophobia. I watched a man on the news stand up and say, "I do not hate Mormons and neither should you." and the whole crowd cheered.
I hope that one day people will stop bickering over what consenting adults do in private. Don't we have more important things to worry about? Why does the government need to define marriage at all? If you think that gay marriage is wrong, don't marry someone of the same sex. But I think that for the government to define marriage as exclusively between a man and a woman sends the message that homosexuals are second class citizens. If expressing that makes me intollerant than I'll just have to be intollerant.
Johnson | 12:29 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
All groups are being protested against. We are in SLC of course we will march
on HQ and Temple Square. We deserve the same rights as you. How does this
destroy your marriage or your family? If you don't like us don't look
at us! You will never stop us, we will win and you know it!!!
Thanks | 12:30 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
thanks to the opponents of prop 8.... the LDS church will get some new
baptisms/investigators from all this attention. This is great advertising.
Thanks again.
Anonymous | 12:43 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
If the chruch insists on injecting itself into politics then this is what they
should expect.
Travis Gibby | 12:43 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Jan Collins,
I understand your frustration, but you need to understand that not all of Utah is LDS, and not all Mormons agree with the stance that the LDS church has taken on this issue.
Travis
I understand your frustration, but you need to understand that not all of Utah is LDS, and not all Mormons agree with the stance that the LDS church has taken on this issue.
Travis
Clifton | 12:45 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
It doesn't matter how much letter writers try to set the record straight,
debunk the lies and half truths directed at the Church, they the perpetrators
wouldn't listen anyway if you were to say it to their faces. Reading the
nonsense posted by these haters on this thread just demonstrates how evil, mean
and hypocritical these people can be. It's not about honesty and fair
play. When these people who are supposedly intelligent, who completely over
look the fact that many other Churches took part in Prop 8 in California, or
other Churches in CA who said no to prop 8, then their intent is to destroy the
LDS Church, and their cries for equality is nothing more than a by line and
charade.
I'm wondering if those Christian groups who identified themselves as born again or Evangelicals, those who trashed Mitt Romney during his quest for President of the USA are getting any satisfaction from the trashing the LDS Church is getting from leftist radicals because of it's support for CA's Prop 8?
I'm wondering if those Christian groups who identified themselves as born again or Evangelicals, those who trashed Mitt Romney during his quest for President of the USA are getting any satisfaction from the trashing the LDS Church is getting from leftist radicals because of it's support for CA's Prop 8?
I'm still waiting | 12:45 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
for the protest to come to my house here in Idaho. Please come. Looking
forward to it. A Proposition 8 supporter of MY OWN FREE WILL AND CHOICE.
MetricWrench | 12:45 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
It was the will of the people of California now shown for the second time that
marriage is to be defined by the majority. All the people who don't want
Obama to be president aren't running in the streets to get that decision
overturned.
Anonymous | 12:51 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Its YOUR rights next! Beware the slippery slope...
mdog | 12:55 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I live in California and when the papers did a survey to figure out why the
proposition was rejected it found that the large majority of the black and
Hispanic communities voted against. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I
would bet there are more Black and Hispanics then Mormons in California. They
felt it treaded on ther rights and voted accordingly.
to Travis Gibby | 12:56 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
the most intelligent thing i've heard all day! well put!
Make it personal and we will too | 1:09 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Anonymous,
"If the chruch insists on injecting itself into politics then this is what they should expect."
Richard John Neuhaus said it best "In a democracy that is free and robust, an opinion is no more disqualified for being �religious� than for being atheistic, or psychoanalytic, or Marxist, or just plain dumb. There is no legal or constitutional question about the admission of religion to the public square; there is only a question about the free and equal participation of citizens in our public business. Religion is not a reified �thing� that threatens to intrude upon our common life. Religion in public is but the public opinion of those citizens who are religious. As with individual citizens, so also with the associations that citizens form to advance their opinions. Religious institutions may understand themselves to be brought into being by God, but for the purposes of this democratic polity they are free associations of citizens. As such, they are guaranteed the same access to the public square as are the citizens who comprise them."
These protests target the Church because of its choice to exercise its constitutional right to participate in free elections.
We won't be intimidated.
"If the chruch insists on injecting itself into politics then this is what they should expect."
Richard John Neuhaus said it best "In a democracy that is free and robust, an opinion is no more disqualified for being �religious� than for being atheistic, or psychoanalytic, or Marxist, or just plain dumb. There is no legal or constitutional question about the admission of religion to the public square; there is only a question about the free and equal participation of citizens in our public business. Religion is not a reified �thing� that threatens to intrude upon our common life. Religion in public is but the public opinion of those citizens who are religious. As with individual citizens, so also with the associations that citizens form to advance their opinions. Religious institutions may understand themselves to be brought into being by God, but for the purposes of this democratic polity they are free associations of citizens. As such, they are guaranteed the same access to the public square as are the citizens who comprise them."
These protests target the Church because of its choice to exercise its constitutional right to participate in free elections.
We won't be intimidated.
CA Yes On 8 is Great! | 1:10 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I want every good Latter-day Saint who has commented to know how much we
appreciate the support from all of you. We have seriously been through a battle
over here and I am pleased to say I did not hear of one LDS person who lost
their cool while being viciously attacked by the No Supporters. The press has
been so negative and biased and I really find it refreshing to know we are not
alone. A lot of the people supporting No on 8 were not gays but people who are
immoral in some other way and do not like Christians and other religious people
in general. We all need to find way to validate the way we live and we saw a
lot of that here. There are a lot of angry people and they found the church
members to be an easy target. I guess they have forgotten how willing followers
of Christ are to stand strong in the faith. A little check into history will
tell them that this people will NEVER back down. No Unhallowed Hand will stop
the work from going forward. Wickedness Never Was Happiness! Marriage=One
Man~One Woman, period!
TO; Think @ 12:19 | 1:14 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I am curious, and this is a serious question. What rights do the gay community
not have that married people have? My understanding is that they do have rights
of inheritance, insurance, etc. I don't know what rights a married person
has that a gay person doesn't have.
We do not deny gays marriage | 1:17 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Johnson,
"All groups are being protested against. We are in SLC of course we will march on HQ and Temple Square. We deserve the same rights as you."
You have the same right to marry as does anyone else and aren't discriminated against because of a sexual orientation. You can marry on the same terms as any other person but if you want to redefine the terms you must do so through the democratic process.
"How does this destroy your marriage or your family"
It doesn't but a I don't recognize or promote a lot of things that don't harm me or my family.
Just because I'm not harmed doesn't mean I'm forced to recognize as an individual or collectively as a voter the choices of others.
"If you don't like us don't look at us! You will never stop us, we will win and you know it!!!"
We aren't trying to stop you from doing anything. It is you who are trying to force us to do something and ordering us and those who represent us to give you marriage licenses. Do whatever you want because no one cares but we won't be forced to recognize it.
"All groups are being protested against. We are in SLC of course we will march on HQ and Temple Square. We deserve the same rights as you."
You have the same right to marry as does anyone else and aren't discriminated against because of a sexual orientation. You can marry on the same terms as any other person but if you want to redefine the terms you must do so through the democratic process.
"How does this destroy your marriage or your family"
It doesn't but a I don't recognize or promote a lot of things that don't harm me or my family.
Just because I'm not harmed doesn't mean I'm forced to recognize as an individual or collectively as a voter the choices of others.
"If you don't like us don't look at us! You will never stop us, we will win and you know it!!!"
We aren't trying to stop you from doing anything. It is you who are trying to force us to do something and ordering us and those who represent us to give you marriage licenses. Do whatever you want because no one cares but we won't be forced to recognize it.
thin line | 1:20 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Tyler said"
"and as soon as a group gets involved in politics, they are subject to political protests. Deal with it."
Yes and you are free to protest all you want.
There is a thin line between peaceful protest and rioting. When property is destroyed or defaced and physical violence is committed that line will be crossed and then law enforcement will step in. If it really becomes out of hand, the National Guard will also step in.
"and as soon as a group gets involved in politics, they are subject to political protests. Deal with it."
Yes and you are free to protest all you want.
There is a thin line between peaceful protest and rioting. When property is destroyed or defaced and physical violence is committed that line will be crossed and then law enforcement will step in. If it really becomes out of hand, the National Guard will also step in.
Bill Moss | 1:23 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
10% of the population is gay. It's genetic.
Thank you to the demonstrators | 1:29 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Mormon church members were the largest source of financial contributions to the
yes on 8 campaign, by far. This is exactly why the church is being targeted for
protest. This money funded a dishonest and deceptive campaign to have
discrimination written into the constitution of California. This is the first
time an existing right has actually been removed. To those who say the majority
spoke, our constitution provides for the protection of the minority from the
tyranny of the majority. Minorities need not rely on the mere good will of the
majority for their rights. The church should be embarrassed and ashamed for
their role in this.
LGBT are not asking to be married in a mormon church or temple. We hear, 'we love you, it's the sin we hate'. If you love us so much, then leave alone and stop trying to impose your religious dogma on the rest of us. This is the third civil rights issue the church has been on the wrong side of in as many decades: the ERA, equality in the church for those of African descent and now this.
LGBT are not asking to be married in a mormon church or temple. We hear, 'we love you, it's the sin we hate'. If you love us so much, then leave alone and stop trying to impose your religious dogma on the rest of us. This is the third civil rights issue the church has been on the wrong side of in as many decades: the ERA, equality in the church for those of African descent and now this.
Clifton | 1:32 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Another thought: The LDS people and their Church must be doing something right
in order to garnered such hatred and bigotry because of their stance in support
of Prop 8. Meanwhile,all the other Churches who participated, sit back and watch
as the LDS Church runs interference for them. Hmmm, interesting!
Laura | 1:35 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Go to the CNN website and check out the Prop 8 map of CA detailing each county.
To me, I think we won by MORE than 52% !
Just Some Facts | 1:35 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
1. Mormons make up less than 2% of the population of California. There
are approximately 800,000 LDS out of a total population of approximately 34
million.
2. Mormon voters were less than 5% of the yes vote. If one estimates that 250,000 LDS are registered voters (the rest being children), then LDS voters made up 4.6% of the Yes vote and 2.4% of the total Proposition 8 vote.
3. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) donated no money to the Yes on 8 campaign. Individual members of the Church were encouraged to support the Yes on 8 efforts and, exercising their constitutional right to free speech, donated whatever they felt like donating.
4. The No on 8 campaign raised more money than the Yes on 8 campaign. Unofficial estimates put No on 8 at $38 million and Yes on 8 at $32 million, making it the most expensive non-presidential election in the country.
2. Mormon voters were less than 5% of the yes vote. If one estimates that 250,000 LDS are registered voters (the rest being children), then LDS voters made up 4.6% of the Yes vote and 2.4% of the total Proposition 8 vote.
3. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) donated no money to the Yes on 8 campaign. Individual members of the Church were encouraged to support the Yes on 8 efforts and, exercising their constitutional right to free speech, donated whatever they felt like donating.
4. The No on 8 campaign raised more money than the Yes on 8 campaign. Unofficial estimates put No on 8 at $38 million and Yes on 8 at $32 million, making it the most expensive non-presidential election in the country.
Sarah | 1:38 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
The members of the LDS Church did raise a fair amount of money for this,
nobody's denying that. But the no-8 side raised at least $10 million more
than our side did, so why are they complaining. They had the backing of major
corporations, major celebrities that some people follow like sheep, and
considerably more cash than pro-8 people did. They were the ones who demanded
that this issue come to a head, and it did. They lost. I understand that
that's disappointing for them, but that does NOT give people the right to
deface the Temple of the Lord.
I was at that protest last night, standing up for my church leaders. We kept quite and just stood there peacefully, even though others near us were screaming back at the crowds. There were about 20 of us just there to support our church's stance on this, not there to pick a fight. We were insulted, screamed at, cursed at, we had people flashing us obscene gestures, and somebody spit on me. That is NOT love and tolerance. That is pure hatred. It was ugly. Those people last night did not want a peaceful solution, they wanted to cause damage.
I was at that protest last night, standing up for my church leaders. We kept quite and just stood there peacefully, even though others near us were screaming back at the crowds. There were about 20 of us just there to support our church's stance on this, not there to pick a fight. We were insulted, screamed at, cursed at, we had people flashing us obscene gestures, and somebody spit on me. That is NOT love and tolerance. That is pure hatred. It was ugly. Those people last night did not want a peaceful solution, they wanted to cause damage.
to thin line: | 1:40 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
no property was destroyed or defaced. the police monitered the entire thing and
not a single protester was arrested.
you can try to demonize people who don't think that religion should control everyone's life but all they are is your neighbors, friends, brothers and sisters who expect their government to treat their relationships the same as it treats yours.
We could care less about what you believe or your own views of marriage or you exercising your religious rights. we simply expect the government to treat all men equal. regardless of whom we choose to be with the government is granting certain relationships legal rights that it is denying others based which violates equal protection clauses of the constitution.
my partner and i pay more in taxes than our married counterparts, we have to pay lawyers to secure visitation and inheritance rights that you take for granted. we could care less about the religious opinions, we just want a fair government, and so should all of you.
you can try to demonize people who don't think that religion should control everyone's life but all they are is your neighbors, friends, brothers and sisters who expect their government to treat their relationships the same as it treats yours.
We could care less about what you believe or your own views of marriage or you exercising your religious rights. we simply expect the government to treat all men equal. regardless of whom we choose to be with the government is granting certain relationships legal rights that it is denying others based which violates equal protection clauses of the constitution.
my partner and i pay more in taxes than our married counterparts, we have to pay lawyers to secure visitation and inheritance rights that you take for granted. we could care less about the religious opinions, we just want a fair government, and so should all of you.
Laura | 1:58 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
People like Brad Pitt donated 100K to the NO campaign. CA teachers had some of
their paycheck donated to the NOs WITHOUT their permission. Various corporations
donated big money too.
And here the LDS church members are the reason for the win. GOD answers prayers! LET this be a lesson to you Hollywood!
And here the LDS church members are the reason for the win. GOD answers prayers! LET this be a lesson to you Hollywood!
Lance | 1:58 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Democracy at work baby, deal with it. If you want to live your lifestyle in
private, fine. Just don't try and promote it as equivalent to a
relationship between a man and a women which is the basis of the continuation of
the species. Even the procreation relationships have enough problems these
days, and creating even more confusion isn't a solution to anything.
Skippy | 1:58 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
The voice of the people have spoken in California.
John Pack Lambert | 1:59 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
People constantly misrepresent Loving v. Virginia. What was ruled in Loving
v. Virginia was that laws on marriage that make distinctions based on race are
in violation of the 14th Admendment.
The ERA did not pass, so there is no absolute ban on laws that make distinction based on gender.
The ERA did not pass, so there is no absolute ban on laws that make distinction based on gender.
Skippy | 1:59 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
It is only an estimate that 10% of the population is same-gendered attracted.
Tom Wall Hemet, CA | 2:00 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I am a proud member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and have
a word to my Brothers and Sisters in the Church who are not happy with the
Saviors position against same sex marriage. You seem to think you can outwit the
Lords council and run His Church your way. How did a church teaching so basic as
following our prophet get away from you. While we're on the subject did you
raise your hand and sustain President Monson as your prophet, seer and
revelator? Please think about who knows better God or man? You must speak to our
Father about this I am sure he would like to discuss this with you.
Tom Wall
Hemet, CA Stake
Tom Wall
Hemet, CA Stake
To the tyrants who hate freedom | 2:02 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
to thin line,
"no property was destroyed or defaced. the police monitered the entire thing and not a single protester was arrested."
He was referring to the Los Angeles Temple were they also held a protest. I saw the images of the gate to the Temple being defaced with the left post saying "bigot" and the right "liars."
"We could care less about what you believe or your own views of marriage or you exercising your religious rights. we simply expect the government to treat all men equal. regardless of whom we choose to be with the government is granting certain relationships legal rights that it is denying others based which violates equal protection clauses of the constitution."
It doesn't violate the equal protection clause of the Constitution since you are allowed to marry on the same terms as others and aren't denied marriage because your sexual orientation. What's next? Not being able to serve in Congress unless you are a certain age is discrimination and violates the equal protection clause? How about freedom of speech? Will that mean that the government MUST print your opinions if they print a Congressman's who disagrees with you. Is that equal protection tyrant?
"no property was destroyed or defaced. the police monitered the entire thing and not a single protester was arrested."
He was referring to the Los Angeles Temple were they also held a protest. I saw the images of the gate to the Temple being defaced with the left post saying "bigot" and the right "liars."
"We could care less about what you believe or your own views of marriage or you exercising your religious rights. we simply expect the government to treat all men equal. regardless of whom we choose to be with the government is granting certain relationships legal rights that it is denying others based which violates equal protection clauses of the constitution."
It doesn't violate the equal protection clause of the Constitution since you are allowed to marry on the same terms as others and aren't denied marriage because your sexual orientation. What's next? Not being able to serve in Congress unless you are a certain age is discrimination and violates the equal protection clause? How about freedom of speech? Will that mean that the government MUST print your opinions if they print a Congressman's who disagrees with you. Is that equal protection tyrant?
We must defend freedom | 2:08 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Clifton,
"Another thought: The LDS people and their Church must be doing something right in order to garnered such hatred and bigotry because of their stance in support of Prop 8. Meanwhile,all the other Churches who participated, sit back and watch as the LDS Church runs interference for them. Hmmm, interesting!"
The Archbishop of San Fransisco issued a press release condemning those who were targeting the Church. He did so even though it runs the risk of drawing their attention to his Archdiocese.
That took a lot of of courage on his part but I think Church leaders have probably spoken to others who supported Prop. 8 and asked them not to come to the defense of the Church because we don't want them to also become the target of these hateful bigoted tyrants who want to force same-sex marriage on the majority.
Let the sound of freedom and liberty ring from the hills to the cities of this great country and let's stand tall against those who would deprive us of our constitutional right to govern and enact statutes as a majority.
Now they are trying disguise their violent intent behind the Constitution but Madison condemned this.
"Another thought: The LDS people and their Church must be doing something right in order to garnered such hatred and bigotry because of their stance in support of Prop 8. Meanwhile,all the other Churches who participated, sit back and watch as the LDS Church runs interference for them. Hmmm, interesting!"
The Archbishop of San Fransisco issued a press release condemning those who were targeting the Church. He did so even though it runs the risk of drawing their attention to his Archdiocese.
That took a lot of of courage on his part but I think Church leaders have probably spoken to others who supported Prop. 8 and asked them not to come to the defense of the Church because we don't want them to also become the target of these hateful bigoted tyrants who want to force same-sex marriage on the majority.
Let the sound of freedom and liberty ring from the hills to the cities of this great country and let's stand tall against those who would deprive us of our constitutional right to govern and enact statutes as a majority.
Now they are trying disguise their violent intent behind the Constitution but Madison condemned this.
John Pack Lambert | 2:10 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Either the 6:05 commentator is being sarcastic, or they can not comprehend the
law that they posted.
It clearly only applies to actions in favor or a CANDIDATE. The church did not endorse or oppose any candidate. The church endorsed a proposition. That is entirely different, and if you do not understand the difference you have major issues.
It clearly only applies to actions in favor or a CANDIDATE. The church did not endorse or oppose any candidate. The church endorsed a proposition. That is entirely different, and if you do not understand the difference you have major issues.
tigerlily | 2:12 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
the church only asked its members to vote not how to vote
sureshot | 2:16 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Affording married people certain rights and priviledges, our government and
legal institutions have blurred the line between church and state. I see why the
religous organizations are against gays&lesbians getting married. If
marriage laws were made equitable, then straight married people would no longer
enjoy special rights and priviledges. They say marriage should be only between
man and woman because they believe God wills it so, which is clearly a religous
reason, and should not be enforced or supported by government. If
"traditional marriage" supporters use cultural tradition as an
argument against gay marriage, they are following in the political footsteps of
those who were/are also against equal rights for blacks. Those arguments are
outdated and biggoted. Married people shouldn't receive tax breaks and
other special rights just because they are married, unless all people are able
to get married. Religion and tradition are not acceptable excuses for legalized
biggotry or discrimination. Equality and separation of church and state are
ideas that make this country great. Our laws should express these values.
I'm for traditional marriage, and gay marriage too. But, both should be
legally acknowledged or niether should be.
Mumacita | 2:17 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
The recent display of "protests" by pro-gay marriage adherents against
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints reminds me of Kristallnacht
"the night of broken glass" when the Nazis "protested"
against another religious minority with intimidation, violence and destruction
Jewish property.
Why no peaceful passive resistance by the anti-Prop 8 group? Why no respectful civil disobedience by the pro-gay marriage group? Why no Christ-like attempt to persude with kindness gentleness or meekness by these gay-rights protesters.
Martin Luther King would weep. Gandhi would be shamed. And just maybe Jesus Christ would throw the "protesters" out of His temple. Again.
Why no peaceful passive resistance by the anti-Prop 8 group? Why no respectful civil disobedience by the pro-gay marriage group? Why no Christ-like attempt to persude with kindness gentleness or meekness by these gay-rights protesters.
Martin Luther King would weep. Gandhi would be shamed. And just maybe Jesus Christ would throw the "protesters" out of His temple. Again.
John Pack Lambert | 2:20 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
To Steve at 7:55,
I do not think anyone has claimed that homosexual activists do not have a right to protest.
We have pointed out that it is sad that they do so by spreading lies such as that Mormons practice polygamy.
However, do they have a right to vandalize property? I believe the answer is no.
I think the other point people are making is this is not how we as members of the church deal with issues.
Those of us here in Michigan are not out protesting the defeat of Clifford Taylor even though it was the result of outright lies by his opponants.
I do not think anyone has claimed that homosexual activists do not have a right to protest.
We have pointed out that it is sad that they do so by spreading lies such as that Mormons practice polygamy.
However, do they have a right to vandalize property? I believe the answer is no.
I think the other point people are making is this is not how we as members of the church deal with issues.
Those of us here in Michigan are not out protesting the defeat of Clifford Taylor even though it was the result of outright lies by his opponants.
cali-kel | 2:25 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
The LDS church is the only one being persecuted for the passing of prop 8; That
is such a confirmation that we did the right thing! satan knows where to blame,
because he is pointing out to the whole country where the truth is. What a grand
missionary moment! I am so grateful to know that even though few in numbers we
may be, the Lord has used us in His hand as instruments, and we need to rejoice
that we are worthy of persecutions for His purposes. This is prophecy happening
before our eyes; Bring it on!....More be with us than be with them.
tigerlily | 2:28 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
to follow thw money. the money didn't come from church funds. it came from
members.
What? | 2:33 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
You don't get it. Nobody is upset that people voted against it,
they're upset that the church spent millions of dollars supporting any
bill.
John Pack Lambert | 2:42 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008
To pjw,
Over $8,000,000 is no song and dance. Then the church gave the city more property to secure ownership on land they already had purchased.
On the comment about half of California being Mormon the person was saying that mockingly about the claim that the Church is solely responsible for this measure passing. The commentator knew that they were saying something ludicrous, but it was to show how ludicrous it is to claim this was some sort of Mormon plot.
Over $8,000,000 is no song and dance. Then the church gave the city more property to secure ownership on land they already had purchased.
On the comment about half of California being Mormon the person was saying that mockingly about the claim that the Church is solely responsible for this measure passing. The commentator knew that they were saying something ludicrous, but it was to show how ludicrous it is to claim this was some sort of Mormon plot.
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Are we all forgetting that we all are part of the same humanity? Our species will rise and fall as all do. Some procreate, others don't. We are all part of the same group and the species survives as a whole. Why are some acting as if the same-gender attraction group is somehow separate and distinct and not part of us all? If "they" die out it will be along with the rest of us.
How about putting all this energy toward eradicating hunger, effecting universal education, getting our wits about us in balancing economic interests and ecological wellness? We could accomplishing so much more good with our time and resources.