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Hundreds protest over Prop. 8
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God over Man | 11:59 p.m. Nov. 6, 2008
D&C 3:1,7
-"The works, and the designs, and the purposes of God cannot be frustrated, neither can they come to naught."
-"...you should not have feared man more than God..."
Do what you want, but Prop 8 passed, and the Gay's and Lesbians can whine all they want, and God will smile and his plans shall move forward! Time to decide which side you are on: God's or Satan's.
-"The works, and the designs, and the purposes of God cannot be frustrated, neither can they come to naught."
-"...you should not have feared man more than God..."
Do what you want, but Prop 8 passed, and the Gay's and Lesbians can whine all they want, and God will smile and his plans shall move forward! Time to decide which side you are on: God's or Satan's.
JulesNo Mo | 12:04 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
In 2000 it was 61%, in 2008 it was 52%. Next time around well the ammendment to
ammend the ammendment will pass. Sorry mormons put it is just a matter of time.
When this happens mormons doctrine will fall in line like it did in 1890 and
1978 around similar issues on sacred doctrine due to financial implications and
social efforts.
Comments continue below
A question for gays | 12:11 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
If you consider yourself gay, maybe you can answer this question for me: What
is truly the compulsion that dictates your activism to promote the homosexual
lifestyle in our society? (And by promote, I mean "to elevate in importance
or prominence.")
It can't be a religious compulsion; no serious major theology has, in the history of the world, sanctioned the homosexual lifestyle.
It can't be a social compulsion for "justice for all"; if this were the case, then, with equal fervor, you'd take up the cause of others who are "discriminated" against "unfairly"(e.g., poor people who can't get loans for expensive mortgages they cannot afford, or students who can't get into the colleges of their choice because of poor grades).
It can't be a biological compulsion; homosexuality does not contribute naturally to reproduction, and is not genetically determined.
So eliminate religious, social, and biological compulsions and what remains is the individual compulsion, i.e.: selfishness. It seems to me that in trying to "normalize" homosexuality (gay marriage, for example), gays receive public validation for what are essentially chosen and personal acts of perversion. That civil society endure upheaval for such an egoistic and shallow mollification of conscience is disturbing.
It can't be a religious compulsion; no serious major theology has, in the history of the world, sanctioned the homosexual lifestyle.
It can't be a social compulsion for "justice for all"; if this were the case, then, with equal fervor, you'd take up the cause of others who are "discriminated" against "unfairly"(e.g., poor people who can't get loans for expensive mortgages they cannot afford, or students who can't get into the colleges of their choice because of poor grades).
It can't be a biological compulsion; homosexuality does not contribute naturally to reproduction, and is not genetically determined.
So eliminate religious, social, and biological compulsions and what remains is the individual compulsion, i.e.: selfishness. It seems to me that in trying to "normalize" homosexuality (gay marriage, for example), gays receive public validation for what are essentially chosen and personal acts of perversion. That civil society endure upheaval for such an egoistic and shallow mollification of conscience is disturbing.
David S. Fanene | 12:13 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The protesters had their chance and should have worked harder before the
election. Obviously they had enough money. They need to stay away from the
holy temples and the police need to arrest them. Had the truth really gone out
and the public really been informed, and the signs not been stolen, and
volunteers not been assaulted and battered, and the media not been biased as
well as politicians against Yes on 8, the for Yes on 8 votes would have been
much higher. 5,100,970 Californians voted for traditional marriage. A man
marrying a man is not equal to a man marrying a woman. That is why traditional
marriage prevailed like in 30 other states including Florida and Arizona. The
for Yes on 8 supporters are tired of this. This was a competition and the Yes
side won fair and square. Demonstrating on the street causing disorderly
conduct will not bring sympathy, only anger and resentment. Get over it.
Bert | 12:14 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
It is pleasing to note that so many people supported this proposition.
Those who wish to support men and women who live in same-sex relationships can continue to do so.
'Let them worship how, where or what they may' - just give up trying to redefine terms that are clear in their meaning. 'Marriage' - is the union of one man and one women. I suggest that those supporting same-sex unions find a new term and define it in a way that suits the situation.
Then all will understand what is meant when different types of relationships are referred to.
Those who wish to support men and women who live in same-sex relationships can continue to do so.
'Let them worship how, where or what they may' - just give up trying to redefine terms that are clear in their meaning. 'Marriage' - is the union of one man and one women. I suggest that those supporting same-sex unions find a new term and define it in a way that suits the situation.
Then all will understand what is meant when different types of relationships are referred to.
Southern CA Porter Rockwell | 12:15 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Gee, I don't recall there being a protest rally by the people who voted for
Proposition 22 in 2000 and invading West Hollywood to demostrate when the
California State Supreme Court over turned it on May 15, 2008! The democratic
process was in place. Citizens of the state of California voted. The ballots
were not tampered with. It was fair and square. End of story. Get back to living
life.
Re: God over Man|11:59 | 12:16 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Understandably I think you are a little self doubting and asking a rhetorical
question. Who is leading your church my friend, God or satan? I think you need
to understand and answer that question before you ask others who leads them.
a different NoCal saint | 12:16 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
This issue has not divided my ward at all. If anything, it's bonded us
even closer. Not only that, our entire Stake has been involved. What a good
experience, although very difficult one it was. I've been verbally abused
and a man in my ward was deliberately hit while putting up yes on 8 signs.
It's all okay. There are more that be with us than be with them.
We've also been reassured that because of our efforts, our children and
future posterity will be protected!!!
notinutah | 12:26 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Its not as if the majority of people voting against it were gay. There are
straight people who voted against it. And the church's position and
handling of the issue will resonate with them as well. I just think the church
was dropping dollars to bend over and pick up pennies when it comes to this
issue and how it was handled. The effects of it will be known as time
progresses. People are going to have a preconceived notion about mormons before
they even knock on their door. The world was watching. Is it fair to put this
issue between potential converts and their willingness to hear the gospel? are
only people with a particular social and political viewpoint worthy of having a
knock on their door? Are they going to see two missionaries wanting to share a
message about christ their savior, or are they going to see suits and nametags
and slam a door based on the actions of the church in this political issue
will we as church members be responsible for creating this clout which could hinder god's children away from their chance to hear the gospel?
something to think about.
will we as church members be responsible for creating this clout which could hinder god's children away from their chance to hear the gospel?
something to think about.
LDS efforts were fair and just | 12:35 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Those who want traditional marriage (the silent majority) have to deal with a
never-ending onslaught of propoganda and hype from those who want to change a
fundamental tenant of society, not to mention all the money form Hollywood and
the liberal media support. The far left and special interest groups have spent
millions - maybe billions on this for years and years.
However, when the LDS church, which is comparatively small to all of this, makes a grass-roots effort with the cooperation of other religions to make a stand; the loud, clamorous majority gets angry and vilifies the LDS Church.
The silent majority has to constantly be subjected to the hype and rhetoric, and once in a while we take time from our busy lives to make a stand and let the pro-gay groups know that just because they are constantly making noise about this doesn't mean they represent the mainstream of society.
The fact that those who really have less money and influence won this battle should tell the No to 8 supporters that just because they are constantly harping on this doesn't mean they are mainstream or modern and that most people know the truth.
However, when the LDS church, which is comparatively small to all of this, makes a grass-roots effort with the cooperation of other religions to make a stand; the loud, clamorous majority gets angry and vilifies the LDS Church.
The silent majority has to constantly be subjected to the hype and rhetoric, and once in a while we take time from our busy lives to make a stand and let the pro-gay groups know that just because they are constantly making noise about this doesn't mean they represent the mainstream of society.
The fact that those who really have less money and influence won this battle should tell the No to 8 supporters that just because they are constantly harping on this doesn't mean they are mainstream or modern and that most people know the truth.
Rob | 12:35 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Homosexuals are not being deprived of their rights to marry, they are being
restricted on who they can marry. Societies have always restricted who can get
married, because marriage is an institution that is designed to promote morality
and to perpetuate the population of the community through the bearing and
rearing of children.
If it is believe that two homosexuals have the right to marry because they love each other, then the same priviledge would have to be extended to everyone else who loves and desires to marry, including children, family members of the same blood, people who love and desire to be married to multiple people at the same time, and possibly even owners and their pets.
Obviously homosexuals desire more than a right to be legally married, they desire to destroy a beloved and valuable standard and take society down a path where the ability to define what is good and what is moral is outlawed. There is more to marriage than just love and a desire to be married. Marriage has to also be good for children, for the community, and not create legal loop-holes for deviant and destructive behavior.
If it is believe that two homosexuals have the right to marry because they love each other, then the same priviledge would have to be extended to everyone else who loves and desires to marry, including children, family members of the same blood, people who love and desire to be married to multiple people at the same time, and possibly even owners and their pets.
Obviously homosexuals desire more than a right to be legally married, they desire to destroy a beloved and valuable standard and take society down a path where the ability to define what is good and what is moral is outlawed. There is more to marriage than just love and a desire to be married. Marriage has to also be good for children, for the community, and not create legal loop-holes for deviant and destructive behavior.
Brandon | 12:36 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Think of all of the things for which they could have used their money besides
this hateful monstrosity. Mormons will forever be branded fascist xenophobes,
if anyone hadn't yet reached that conclusion before these ugly events,
which I doubt.
States wil rue the day | 12:41 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
When the day comes that any state supports gay marriage those with strong
families who want to protect their children from the corrupted schools will
leave and they will be left on their own.
Production of natural children in that state will go down and morals will decline. Children will be hurt and that state'd future will be in jeapordy.
Then the states that receive the exodus out of those pro-gay areas will benefit and guess who will lose in the end? -- What will happen as the years go by and the childless gays and lesbians die off?
I really don't see how anyone sees a long term future in the idea of legalizing gay marriage.
Production of natural children in that state will go down and morals will decline. Children will be hurt and that state'd future will be in jeapordy.
Then the states that receive the exodus out of those pro-gay areas will benefit and guess who will lose in the end? -- What will happen as the years go by and the childless gays and lesbians die off?
I really don't see how anyone sees a long term future in the idea of legalizing gay marriage.
Give religious liberty or death | 12:46 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Henry Drummond,
"They are uniting their opponents and creating tremendous sympathy for them while at the same time making themselves the focus of criticism that they triumphed by misleading and misinforming the public."
The Church is the victim here and those members who wanted to worship in peace didn't get to do so because a bunch of narrow minded bigots who support same sex marriage decided that they would take it upon themselves to prevent them from doing so. Now they plan the same thing for Salt Lake but we will not let those who want to violate our rights to continue to do so and if you think for a minute that this is over than you are mistaken because we have endure many years of persecution and will not let those who want to violate our right to worship because we didn't vote the way they ordered us to than you are sadly mistaken.
You can criticize us all you want but at least we don't come to your homes, churches, temples or weddings and do to you what you jerks have done to our freedom of religion. Those members in California wanted to worship in peace.
"They are uniting their opponents and creating tremendous sympathy for them while at the same time making themselves the focus of criticism that they triumphed by misleading and misinforming the public."
The Church is the victim here and those members who wanted to worship in peace didn't get to do so because a bunch of narrow minded bigots who support same sex marriage decided that they would take it upon themselves to prevent them from doing so. Now they plan the same thing for Salt Lake but we will not let those who want to violate our rights to continue to do so and if you think for a minute that this is over than you are mistaken because we have endure many years of persecution and will not let those who want to violate our right to worship because we didn't vote the way they ordered us to than you are sadly mistaken.
You can criticize us all you want but at least we don't come to your homes, churches, temples or weddings and do to you what you jerks have done to our freedom of religion. Those members in California wanted to worship in peace.
We will die for our rights | 12:58 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Civil Rights,
"More and more people are seeing this as a Civil Rights issue and justly so. I applaud the people who are fighting for their rights."
You call violating our rights fighting for theirs. I call it tyranny. Our freedom of speech, worship and right to vote are all enshrined in the Constitution. These are rights those who support same sex marriage have violated. So go right ahead an applaud the fact that those of us who wanted to worship in peace did not have that opportunity because these terrorists were busy vandalizing Church property by writing bigots and liars on one of our temples. Let's go to their homes and write bigots and liars on their front door and see how they and their families like it when the shoe is on the other damn foot.
I'm done with these people. They are terrorists who will use the courts to overrule the majority of the people and then attack those who have the strength to stand up to them. But we are not afraid and we will not be intimidated because we cherish our freedom and they will have to kill us to take away our liberty.
"More and more people are seeing this as a Civil Rights issue and justly so. I applaud the people who are fighting for their rights."
You call violating our rights fighting for theirs. I call it tyranny. Our freedom of speech, worship and right to vote are all enshrined in the Constitution. These are rights those who support same sex marriage have violated. So go right ahead an applaud the fact that those of us who wanted to worship in peace did not have that opportunity because these terrorists were busy vandalizing Church property by writing bigots and liars on one of our temples. Let's go to their homes and write bigots and liars on their front door and see how they and their families like it when the shoe is on the other damn foot.
I'm done with these people. They are terrorists who will use the courts to overrule the majority of the people and then attack those who have the strength to stand up to them. But we are not afraid and we will not be intimidated because we cherish our freedom and they will have to kill us to take away our liberty.
Paperboy | 1:10 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
It's a slippery slope condemning others for violating one's culture
and morality standards. What is one persons morality may not be another
person's. And, don't forget hypocrisy...it's always deadly.
Re: Civil Rights | 1:11 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
On your comment that the Book of Mormon says blacks have dark skin because of
their wickedness you have quoted something out of context in an effort that
appears to make the LDS Church look bigoted when it is not.
That is a quote but it refers to a a different set of people in the past. The church does not believe that any race currently upon the earth is cursed with a dark skin for their wickedness.
The Church has given the priesthood to all races and considers all to be equal. The Book of Mormon teaches that got is no respector of persons and that those who obey the commandments are justified before God.
The people referred to were Lamanates and - by the way - later on in the Book of Mormon the Lamanites were more righteous than the white people and a Lamanite prophet later condemed the white people for being wicked and cursed them in the name of the Lord.
Please don't mislead other people about the teachings of our church.
That is a quote but it refers to a a different set of people in the past. The church does not believe that any race currently upon the earth is cursed with a dark skin for their wickedness.
The Church has given the priesthood to all races and considers all to be equal. The Book of Mormon teaches that got is no respector of persons and that those who obey the commandments are justified before God.
The people referred to were Lamanates and - by the way - later on in the Book of Mormon the Lamanites were more righteous than the white people and a Lamanite prophet later condemed the white people for being wicked and cursed them in the name of the Lord.
Please don't mislead other people about the teachings of our church.
Sad | 1:13 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Maybe these people need to spend less time protesting churches and more time
inside of churches! I am tired of listening to people compain about their
rights as a homosexual and comparing them to blacks, etc. Being black is
genetic, being gay is a choice!! The gay community constantly argues this
point, but fact of the matter is that there is not one shred of scientific
evidence that people are born gay. You make a decision to go against societies
norms, morals and standard of decency, and then act all offended when we
don't all bow down and give you all of the privileges of people who choose
to lead a normal lifestyle.
Hate? | 1:18 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
In the first picture there is a sign stating that Mormons spread Hate, while
this is erroneous on so many points that I don't the necessary space to
show just how wrong it is, I would like to point out the angry gay? man in the
picture raising his fist and screaming...looks like he's the one hating.
Also, how hateful is it to deface the gates of a temple...of any religion. What
could be more hateful.
You live in a state that has twice voted that you and others like you should not have the right to marry. If you don't like it, move out. Move to Massachusettes. Obviously California doesn't want gays to marry, deal with it...deal with Democracy!
You live in a state that has twice voted that you and others like you should not have the right to marry. If you don't like it, move out. Move to Massachusettes. Obviously California doesn't want gays to marry, deal with it...deal with Democracy!
Obey or they destroy property | 1:21 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I'm still waiting,
"I gave my definition of marriage over a half hour ago, but as of yet the No on 8 crowd has yet to
submit to me their definition of marriage. Could it be you don�t have one? If you have no definition then I can see how you would think anything goes."
I will help them out. We "the minority decide that the majority created legal institution of marriage will be defined as 'between one man and one woman but will also include gays who want to marry a man or woman of the same sex but we will not let anyone else in on our newly created minority definition."
Does that sound about right? Their argument isn't to open up the definition of marriage to everyone or to any person(s) except for themselves. They believe a minority has the right to define an institution that was created solely by a majority. The right to make law is reserved in the people. If a minority refuses to accept the lawful vote of the majority what does that really leave us. A constitution that allows us to make laws when the minority allows us.
"I gave my definition of marriage over a half hour ago, but as of yet the No on 8 crowd has yet to
submit to me their definition of marriage. Could it be you don�t have one? If you have no definition then I can see how you would think anything goes."
I will help them out. We "the minority decide that the majority created legal institution of marriage will be defined as 'between one man and one woman but will also include gays who want to marry a man or woman of the same sex but we will not let anyone else in on our newly created minority definition."
Does that sound about right? Their argument isn't to open up the definition of marriage to everyone or to any person(s) except for themselves. They believe a minority has the right to define an institution that was created solely by a majority. The right to make law is reserved in the people. If a minority refuses to accept the lawful vote of the majority what does that really leave us. A constitution that allows us to make laws when the minority allows us.
Accept our right or fight us | 1:33 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
RE; No Longer a Democracy,
"The United States is NOT a democracy. It is a REPUBLIC. Try educating yourself. Spend more time in school and less time in Sunday school."
Apparently you don't know what a REPUBLIC means or you would know democracy and republic are basically saying the same thing. Thomas Jefferson said "Bear always in mind that a nation ceases to be republican only when the will of the majority ceases to be the law." We aren't talking about constitutional rights or liberties which can be exercised independent of the government. The Courts are were put in place to protect the rights of the minority against the right of the majority to make law.
Those courts were created by the people, approved by our representatives and are our way of granting the minority equal protection and due process under the law. They are there to prevent us from running over the minority and violating their rights but marriage is not a right and does not exist independent of the will of the majority. We created it and we define it and the minority either recognizes our right to make law or the constitution becomes void and we fight.
"The United States is NOT a democracy. It is a REPUBLIC. Try educating yourself. Spend more time in school and less time in Sunday school."
Apparently you don't know what a REPUBLIC means or you would know democracy and republic are basically saying the same thing. Thomas Jefferson said "Bear always in mind that a nation ceases to be republican only when the will of the majority ceases to be the law." We aren't talking about constitutional rights or liberties which can be exercised independent of the government. The Courts are were put in place to protect the rights of the minority against the right of the majority to make law.
Those courts were created by the people, approved by our representatives and are our way of granting the minority equal protection and due process under the law. They are there to prevent us from running over the minority and violating their rights but marriage is not a right and does not exist independent of the will of the majority. We created it and we define it and the minority either recognizes our right to make law or the constitution becomes void and we fight.
Minority lets us make laws | 1:42 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
@No Longer a Democracy,
"If Proposition 8 is overturned..." you folks will have wasted an incredible amount of money, time and effort. HA HA HA"
But it won't be overturned except by the will of the majority and the majority won't overturn it and if you try to go through the courts again then we can always repeal a few amendments and provisions of the California Constitution and even the federal one so that we will retain our right. How about adding this one:
"The majority makes laws and won't harm the minority so long as they recognize that right and we will let them live as they see fit but if they decide that it is a minority who make law than we will use violent force to retain our right to govern."
That will solve our problem and when you try to repeal that one you had better be prepared to kill us because we will not let those who hate freedom deprive us of our most fundamental and only right as am majority. Take this from us and we have nothing but the permission of the minority to make those laws you agree with. Right, Masters?
"If Proposition 8 is overturned..." you folks will have wasted an incredible amount of money, time and effort. HA HA HA"
But it won't be overturned except by the will of the majority and the majority won't overturn it and if you try to go through the courts again then we can always repeal a few amendments and provisions of the California Constitution and even the federal one so that we will retain our right. How about adding this one:
"The majority makes laws and won't harm the minority so long as they recognize that right and we will let them live as they see fit but if they decide that it is a minority who make law than we will use violent force to retain our right to govern."
That will solve our problem and when you try to repeal that one you had better be prepared to kill us because we will not let those who hate freedom deprive us of our most fundamental and only right as am majority. Take this from us and we have nothing but the permission of the minority to make those laws you agree with. Right, Masters?
Let's protest outside their home | 1:56 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
RexidaWyo_NC,
"It amazes me how this group of people place themselves above the laws of the land. You can see the markings they left on the Temple fence columns, but they're a peaceful people. Yea right! It started with the Mayor of San Fransico thinking he was above the law (pro 22) that established parameters on same-sex unions."
You mean like smugly telling the majority: "This door's wide open now, It's going to happen, whether you like it or not."
"Now they protest in front of the temple. That is there right but as the writing on the wall shows some of them have no class."
That's where you are wrong. The rights of those who want to worship in peace take precedence over those of the protesters. Government has a responsibility to maintain public order. Once protesters vandalized Church property the police should have arrested the parties responsible and ordered protesters to leave and allow Mormons who wanted to peacefully exercise their religious freedom to enter their the Temple to worship.
Government which doesn't protect this essential right allows our society to become a issue of brute force. I post anonymously because I don't want protesters outside my house.
"It amazes me how this group of people place themselves above the laws of the land. You can see the markings they left on the Temple fence columns, but they're a peaceful people. Yea right! It started with the Mayor of San Fransico thinking he was above the law (pro 22) that established parameters on same-sex unions."
You mean like smugly telling the majority: "This door's wide open now, It's going to happen, whether you like it or not."
"Now they protest in front of the temple. That is there right but as the writing on the wall shows some of them have no class."
That's where you are wrong. The rights of those who want to worship in peace take precedence over those of the protesters. Government has a responsibility to maintain public order. Once protesters vandalized Church property the police should have arrested the parties responsible and ordered protesters to leave and allow Mormons who wanted to peacefully exercise their religious freedom to enter their the Temple to worship.
Government which doesn't protect this essential right allows our society to become a issue of brute force. I post anonymously because I don't want protesters outside my house.
John | 2:06 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Although I know that there are many people against Mormons, I've never
really had any problems with the Mormon Church in the past, because I
didn't feel they were bothering anyone. But now that the LDS has shown
it's hatred towards others, then my views about your church has taken a
complete turn! Shame on you for promoting hatred! Do not play the victim role,
now that the backlash against you is happening!
You allow X, but not Y masters | 2:08 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Jeff Jacobberger,
"The campaign you Utah Mormons funded was based almost entirely on lies."
You tyrants stopped Mormons from going to the Temple and worshiping, some may even have cast their votes against Prop. 8, because the only rights you care about are yours.
"Too late, folks. Your church leadership let that cat out of the bag. We now have carte blanche to say whatever we want about you bigots. And when you complain, you are being hypocritical."
You talk about us lying as you destroy our property? We have a right to vote, and to discuss the issues facing this country without having our right to worship in peace and to assemble peacefully at our places of worship infringed upon by those who hate freedom and want to tell the majority "it is here whether you like it or not."
This is far from over and we will not let you make us out to be the bad guys as you violate our rights. Give us liberty or give us death at your hands for our freedom and rights mean more than life but I guess the majority can make laws so long as the minority agrees with us.
"The campaign you Utah Mormons funded was based almost entirely on lies."
You tyrants stopped Mormons from going to the Temple and worshiping, some may even have cast their votes against Prop. 8, because the only rights you care about are yours.
"Too late, folks. Your church leadership let that cat out of the bag. We now have carte blanche to say whatever we want about you bigots. And when you complain, you are being hypocritical."
You talk about us lying as you destroy our property? We have a right to vote, and to discuss the issues facing this country without having our right to worship in peace and to assemble peacefully at our places of worship infringed upon by those who hate freedom and want to tell the majority "it is here whether you like it or not."
This is far from over and we will not let you make us out to be the bad guys as you violate our rights. Give us liberty or give us death at your hands for our freedom and rights mean more than life but I guess the majority can make laws so long as the minority agrees with us.
Agreed to majority rule so long | 2:15 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
as majority didn't harm minority.
Tyrants who support same-sex marriage don't agree with Thomas Jefferson who said:
1) "We are sensible of the duty and expediency of submitting our opinions to the will of the majority, and can wait with patience till they get right if they happen to be at any time wrong."
2) "If the measures which have been pursued are approved by the majority, it is the duty of the minority to acquiesce and conform."
3) "Bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate would be oppression."
4) "I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power."
The minority doesn't have a right to make law and must recognize majority's right to make law.
Tyrants who support same-sex marriage don't agree with Thomas Jefferson who said:
1) "We are sensible of the duty and expediency of submitting our opinions to the will of the majority, and can wait with patience till they get right if they happen to be at any time wrong."
2) "If the measures which have been pursued are approved by the majority, it is the duty of the minority to acquiesce and conform."
3) "Bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate would be oppression."
4) "I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power."
The minority doesn't have a right to make law and must recognize majority's right to make law.
We need their permission | 2:23 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
James Madison described same-sex advocates well in saying:
"If a faction consists of less than a majority, relief is supplied by the republican principle, which enables the majority to defeat its sinister views by regular vote: it may clog the administration, it may convulse the society; but it will be unable to execute and mask its violence under the forms of the Constitution."
We saw yesterday just how violent same-sex advocates are and today we will see them terrorize Mormons who want to worship peacefully in Salt Lake.
Madison went on to say "The will of the nation being omnipotent for right, is so for wrong also; and the will of the nation being in the majority, the minority must submit to that danger of oppression as an evil infinitely less than the danger to the whole nation from a will independent of it."
Why is this? Because the "evil danger to the whole nation" rests in a minority having the right to tell the majority that it's only allowed to make laws as long as that minority agrees with them.
Same-sex marriage advocates in California basically say "majority of Californians can make laws so long as they agree."
"If a faction consists of less than a majority, relief is supplied by the republican principle, which enables the majority to defeat its sinister views by regular vote: it may clog the administration, it may convulse the society; but it will be unable to execute and mask its violence under the forms of the Constitution."
We saw yesterday just how violent same-sex advocates are and today we will see them terrorize Mormons who want to worship peacefully in Salt Lake.
Madison went on to say "The will of the nation being omnipotent for right, is so for wrong also; and the will of the nation being in the majority, the minority must submit to that danger of oppression as an evil infinitely less than the danger to the whole nation from a will independent of it."
Why is this? Because the "evil danger to the whole nation" rests in a minority having the right to tell the majority that it's only allowed to make laws as long as that minority agrees with them.
Same-sex marriage advocates in California basically say "majority of Californians can make laws so long as they agree."
Anonymous | 3:48 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
They need to change the school requirement to teach kids about any kind of
marriage. It shouldn't be the schools job to do that... Plus private
adoption agencies, etc. should absolutely have the right, and be allowed to
allow only heterosexual couples to adopt if they choose so. Churches
shouldn't have to lose tax exempt status, for believing what they believe,
etc.
Who is Lying to Whom? | 4:37 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The anti-Prop 8, pro gay marriage crowd ran ads charging this whole idea that
public schools will teach gay marriage is just a "lie."
However, the same groups who said its a lie � �public schools will teach about gay marriage whether parents like it or not� � were in court in Massachusetts filing amicus briefs arguing parents don't have any right to opt their children out of the pro-gay marriage curriculum.
From the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Amicus Curiae Brief:
�, it is particularly important to teach children about families with gay parents.� [p 5]
From the Human Rights Campaign Amicus Curiae Brief:
�(parents have) no right to remove the books now in issue � or to impose an opt-out system.� [pp1-2]
From the ACLU Amicus Curiae Brief:
� parents do not have a constitutional right to override pedagogical judgment of the school �King and King.� [p 9]
Which side is really telling the truth here about its aims?
However, the same groups who said its a lie � �public schools will teach about gay marriage whether parents like it or not� � were in court in Massachusetts filing amicus briefs arguing parents don't have any right to opt their children out of the pro-gay marriage curriculum.
From the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Amicus Curiae Brief:
�, it is particularly important to teach children about families with gay parents.� [p 5]
From the Human Rights Campaign Amicus Curiae Brief:
�(parents have) no right to remove the books now in issue � or to impose an opt-out system.� [pp1-2]
From the ACLU Amicus Curiae Brief:
� parents do not have a constitutional right to override pedagogical judgment of the school �King and King.� [p 9]
Which side is really telling the truth here about its aims?
Frosty | 4:48 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Funny how gays always want everyone to be accepting of their lifestyle, but yet
they can't accept the fact that people may disagree with their lifestyle.
TommyP | 5:02 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
So there was this proposition to ban GAY marriage and the CHURCH came out for
it.
Is this really a big surprise?
Gee, maybe if they tried to make it illegal to kill people, the church might be for that too?
Is this really a big surprise?
Gee, maybe if they tried to make it illegal to kill people, the church might be for that too?
Emma | 5:52 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.
All this action did was make it possible for homosexuals to seek remedy from the Supreme Court of the United States see Loving v. Virginia and Lawrence v. Texas.
Thank you LDS church, we couldn't have done it without you.
All this action did was make it possible for homosexuals to seek remedy from the Supreme Court of the United States see Loving v. Virginia and Lawrence v. Texas.
Thank you LDS church, we couldn't have done it without you.
Roland | 6:08 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Check today's LA Times website - over 1000 protestors marched from
Hollywood to the LA Temple on Thursday Evening and forced the closure of the
temple and Santa Monica Blvd.
There are some angry people out there.
There are some angry people out there.
heleninoz | 6:18 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
"gay?" That word used to mean 'happy'. If there ever was a
group of people so undeserving of being called 'happy' then it surely
fits the people who are whinging, whining, criticising and protesting because
they didn't get their own way. They are so ready to abuse and accuse.
If they read the Bible they would know that 'God' does not approve of their chosen lifestyle.
If they read the Bible they would know that 'God' does not approve of their chosen lifestyle.
Ironic | 6:58 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Of course if it had been defeated and proponents continued to protest, rally,
harass and berate they would be saying, "the people have spoken - let it
be."
UTAHLAKE | 6:59 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
If Jesus were here what would he think and say? He would say love your brothers
and sisters, but remember what happend to Sodom and Gommorah.
rdha | 7:06 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
There must be opposition in all things. Us LDS Church Members must stick to our
guns, no matter what.
Time to pick sides | 7:18 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Never have I seen Lehi's dream being fulfilled more literally, and
it's only going to intensify.
The growing persecution of LDS will eventually test the conviction of every member. The pointing finger of scorn is a powerful nemesis, and can only be successfully ignored when one's conviction in the truthfulness of the LDS church and the divine calling of its leaders runs deep.
Either it's 100% true or it's 100% false, there is no middle ground.
For me and my family, we will "hold to the rod" and "pay them no heed."
The growing persecution of LDS will eventually test the conviction of every member. The pointing finger of scorn is a powerful nemesis, and can only be successfully ignored when one's conviction in the truthfulness of the LDS church and the divine calling of its leaders runs deep.
Either it's 100% true or it's 100% false, there is no middle ground.
For me and my family, we will "hold to the rod" and "pay them no heed."
Sarah | 7:22 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I've heard all along that many African Americans deeply resent being told
that this push by homosexuals is anything at all like their fight for civil
rights in the 60s - and they proved that on Tuesday in California and Florida.
In both states - and possibly in Arizona, though I haven't heard stats for
their state - it was the black communities that represented the majority of
voters in favor of these amendments.
If I were part of the homosexual lobby, I'd think about finding a different strategy. The only problem is, every single strategy they've used so far deeply offends at least one large segment of society.
If I were part of the homosexual lobby, I'd think about finding a different strategy. The only problem is, every single strategy they've used so far deeply offends at least one large segment of society.
wayne | 7:24 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I'm sitting hear reading this stuff, both sides miss the point.prop 8 was
more about rights of heterosexuals that were taken from them by the court. far
more than any right or proceved right the homosexuals lossed in prop 8.civil
unions grant all the rights that marrage does. to me like shakespear a name is
just a name. if the courts had ended there there would not be a need for prop 8.
But they did not.In addition to the civil union name change. the court also gave
unpresidented right to homosexuals. these protections previously were granted to
protect women, minorities especially blacks, and the handy-caped from
discrimination. the court descison for the first time ordered judicial bias to
protect a behavior.I would like someone from the homosexual community to list
what righs they have lost with the passage of prop 8. there isn't any.
If prop 8 didn't pass I would have lost rights. the right to defend my believes on equal grounds it a court of law. right of free assocation. the right of seperation of church from the state. these rights are dear to me that is why prop 8 passed and why i supported it.
If prop 8 didn't pass I would have lost rights. the right to defend my believes on equal grounds it a court of law. right of free assocation. the right of seperation of church from the state. these rights are dear to me that is why prop 8 passed and why i supported it.
Anonymous | 7:29 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Yes, the LDS Church will change its doctrine if same-sex marriage becomes legal,
just like it changed its stance against alcohol when prohibition was
repealed.
oh wait ...
oh wait ...
Darin | 7:31 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
To paraphrase some else's words of wisdom..... Good people will do good
things and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things,
that takes religion.
MAYHEM MIKE | 7:33 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
What the gays and lesbians have NEVER explained is this: If YOU are allowed to
marry, wouldn't it also be discrimination to prohibit marriages between one
man and SEVERAL WOMEN, or, SEVERAL MEN and one woman, or other nontraditional
combinations? How about marriages between close relatives? WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE
LINE?? Once traditional marriage is cast aside to suit YOUR concepts of it, we
may have to "open the flood gates."
Re: Civil Rights | 7:34 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
"however in the Book of Mormon it states that blacks are a lessor race than
the white race."
It doesn't say that all. It says that the mark of darker skin is a physical manifestation of the curse put upon those family members - the curse that the Spirit of the Lord was taken from them. The skin color wasn't a curse, it was a sign that the curse had taken place. It doesn't mean that every single person ever born with that skin color is cursed, or lesser than those without it. It means that they, as a people, were not close to God at the time that the mark came upon them. That fact changed greatly over time. At SEVERAL points in the Book of Mormon, the Lamanites were devout Christians while the Nephites were the corrupted lineage.
It doesn't say that all. It says that the mark of darker skin is a physical manifestation of the curse put upon those family members - the curse that the Spirit of the Lord was taken from them. The skin color wasn't a curse, it was a sign that the curse had taken place. It doesn't mean that every single person ever born with that skin color is cursed, or lesser than those without it. It means that they, as a people, were not close to God at the time that the mark came upon them. That fact changed greatly over time. At SEVERAL points in the Book of Mormon, the Lamanites were devout Christians while the Nephites were the corrupted lineage.
Moessers | 7:35 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
If a vote was taken the majority of the Southern states back in the day would
have continued slavery. Doesn't mean it was humanly just or civil just
because the majority wanted it... Gay marriage will eventually be legal in all
fifty states. Despite the efforts of the prejudice religious right.
To Nathan | 7:36 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
"This will be overturned and one day I will marry my partner in your
temple. The day will come my friends just brace yourselves."
Don't hold your breath.
Don't hold your breath.
Unpersuaded | 7:40 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Basically, the purpose of a protest is to make people with an irrational belief
feel less insecure. No matter how many people turn out for one, it's still
just a bunch of people trying to suggest that numbers are a valid replacement
for logic and reason.
AM | 7:41 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Some are commenting that this should have gone through the state legislature
first. Here's the rub: We live in a representative democracy. Had the
legislature voted no and not allowed the proposition to go to the people,
opponents of Prop 8 would have said, "Your elected representative voted
against this. That's who represents you, who you voted for."
However, in this case, the proposition went TO THE PEOPLE. We don't need
to know how the state legislature would vote in our representative democracy,
because it has gone to the voters themselves. As far as this proposition is
concerned, we know EXACTLY how the majority of voters feel about it, without
asking their state representatives.
Consider also that the turnout was ridiculously high, especially due to the draw of a hotly-contested presidential election. So, a large percentage of eligible voters cast their ballot for Prop 8. I would bet the by-county turnout/vote exceeded the votes in the last election for our representatives.
I have accepted that a majority of people wanted Obama. Please accept that a majority of people want some protection for the tradition of marriage.
Consider also that the turnout was ridiculously high, especially due to the draw of a hotly-contested presidential election. So, a large percentage of eligible voters cast their ballot for Prop 8. I would bet the by-county turnout/vote exceeded the votes in the last election for our representatives.
I have accepted that a majority of people wanted Obama. Please accept that a majority of people want some protection for the tradition of marriage.
nottyou | 7:41 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Wow, so all you have to do to have your name removed from the records of the
Church is mail in a letter? I guess if you wanted to, you could send in letters
asking that the names of all members of the Church be removed from Church
records and pretty soon the Church membership count would be at zero. I had no
idea. It's a miracle!
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Kinda reminds me of when BYU lost to TCU. People were frothing at the mouth for a couple days. Some were on suicide watch. Gradually everyone came back to earth. The Sun still comes up everyday. Not to minimize people's feelings...but come on...everyone RELAX...stop hating and count your blessings. Go to the beach, the mountains, cuddle a baby, play with your dog in the backyard, tell someone that is close to you that you love them. Just be happy with who you are and realize that only you have the power to affect how you feel.
Peace everyone.