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Readers' forum: Obama supporters deceived

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GeeBee | 12:21 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

The answer is simple. When compared to the alternative...YES!

How sad for Bradley! | 1:37 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

He is judging others for being uneducated when he is showing his own lack of information. Obama began his political career by succeeding State Senator Alice Palmer as Senator from Illinois' 13th District. He kicked off his election campaign by announcing in Springfield, IL. The choice of the announcement site was symbolic since it was also where Abraham Lincoln in 1858 delivered his historic "House Divided" speech. His first private supporters met at the Ramada Inn, which was hosted by his Jewish neighbors. The information on Ayers has been answered many times. Michelle Obama miss spoke one time, and was defended by First Lady, Laura Bush. Itï¿½s amazing that people keep using the socialism line after it has been explained many times. Have you even LOOKED at McCainï¿½s stand on the issues?

Dear Bradley | 1:38 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

What an ignorant, scared soul you are. It is McCain's supporters who are deceived, not vice versa. You must be dreading election day. If your fantastically erroneous assumptions are to be believed, It is only two weeks before this country is taken over by a racist socialist anti-american. And guess what?? The rest of thinking America is THRILLED about it. Certainly, even at your very most extreme and inaccurate view of things, it would still be better than being under the charge of selfish warmongering capitalists who've driven the global economy to crisis.
Your letter changes nothing. Zilch. Zero. It's whiny and irrational and pointless. Obama is your next American president. Learn to respect him. Or you might be labeled an anti-American and a racist.

Comments continue below

Joe Moe | 1:40 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Birds of a feather, I guess.

But even if Obama wins, I am just proud to be an American, where power has transitioned so seamlessly for so long. Where people put up signs and write letters to the editor and vote and hold rallies and criticize their government and have a voice.

When we are great, we get the credit as a people. When we suck, we get the blame as a people. I very much believe all the good AND bad we get out of our government is very much our own doing, as a people.

And I love that.

Wake up | 1:53 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Ask any of his groupies what he really stands for and they can't even tell you. They don't really know anything other than his lame campaign slogans about "change" and "hope". The reality is their candidate is nothing but smoke and mirrors. He will be a bigger disaster than Bush if that is possible. Electing him will be pouring gasoline on a fire that is already raging out of control. His supporters deserve him, they will all be denying they ever voted for him a year from now.
His VP is right, the Presidency isn't the place for on the job training, every terrorist and tin horn dictator in the world is coming after this wet noodle as soon as he takes office.

Greg | 3:36 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

I agree with Wake Up. Obama's unofficial campaign slogan (the one used with a smile and a wink, but only among true believers at campaign headquarters)?

"There's a sucker born every minute." Examples?

TAXES

Who do you think would really pay for all of the extra taxes Obama imposes on business? Businesses themselves? High-paid CEO's? The "rich"? Wrong. It's you, the 95 percent of us who are getting a (smile, wink, wink) "tax cut."

GOVERNMENT SPENDING

Does anyone really believe that even more government spending constitutes "investing" in the country? LOL. Government is just a model of efficiency and effectiveness, right?

FINANCIAL MESS

"It's the failed Bush/McCain policies." Oh really? And who was pushing for more subprime loans?

FOREIGN POLICY

If we just sit down and talk with them, we can work things out. Neville Chamberlain couldn't have said it better himself.

RESPECT FOR LIFE

"I'm the pro-life candidate." Wow, really? Is that why you opposed the Illinois Infant Born Alive Protection Act and supported infanticide?

BASIC HONESTY

"I pledge to take public presidential campaign financing [estimate at roughly $85 million]." Oh wait, the money's really rolling in. I only said that because [fill in your own handy excuse].

GWB | 5:14 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

It is very clear that Bradley and "Wake Up" have reached stage two of the mourning process.

See, they are going through the mourning of the death of the conservative movement as started by Goldwater, hitting it's stride with Reagan, and finally flaming out when Bush proved that the philosphy was a failure.

We know they have been in Stage 1 (denial) for a long time and most Republicans still are. Bradley and Wake Up have reached the Anger stage. They are angry and can't understand how other people can be so dumb. They are angry at the thought of their core beliefs being back benched for 20-30 to come.

Soon we will see the Bargaining begin. More and more they will blame Bush and will say that he was not a "true" conservative. They will begin to look for anything that helps them to retain some power, like being happy that they hold the State government power.

Then will come the Depression, they will sadly skulk around in the background waiting to get so low that they start to look for a way out.

Then they will finally accept that Conservative prinicples are doomed to failure for governing.

ECR | 5:18 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Same tired diatribe. Same mantra from the right. We've heard it enough times to memorize it. Will there be more of these letters? Just 12 days until it's over.

I'm not that thrilled with Obama | 5:34 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

However, that being said, I will vote for him because he's better than McCain. As usual, I'm voting for the least worst.

Sally in England | 6:39 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

What is wrong with spreading the wealth around? Surely this is the Christ like thing to do. I think that the current health system in the USA is terribly unfair. Shouldn't we all be looking after those who have less than us, the weak, the poor and the needy? As someone who has a lot, I feel it is my responsibility to help those who have been given less. It is because of this greedy attitude that the world is as it is now. If I could I would crawl through broken glass to vote for Obama.

What about Palin? | 6:48 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Why do you criticise Obama's preacher when Palin also was chummy with a sleasy preacher? You hadn't heard she accepted a blessing from a preacher who bragged he was responsible for getting a woman kick out of her house and community, he accused her of being a witch.

Also this last may, Palin gave the opening speech for the Alaska successionist movement, a very anti-American organization, not to mention her husband was a member for several years.

Why focus only on Obama's questionable associations? given McCains age there is a better than average chance she will end up being president.

If it is questionable relationships that really concerns you, talk about all of them, not just the ones that further your political aims.

jer | 6:50 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

It won't matter who gets into office we have a big mess and the little man will pay out the most once more. At least O is trying to level the playing field. Shame on the GOP for spending on the dough to spruce up the caraboo from the north to entice its voters and shame on anyone voting to support that kind of expenditure when we have homeless and sick people with no where to turn

Anonymous | 6:54 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

These talking points are getting old. I'm voting for Obama, without reservation or fear.

liberal Larry | 7:02 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

After comparing the terms of a Democrat, Clinton, to a Republican, Bush, I'll play the odds and take my chances with Obama. What's the biblical admonition about the "fruit of the tree"?

Reasons... | 7:08 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Instead of constantly telling me what is wrong with Obama and why I shouldn't vote for him, would someone like to please tell me why I should vote for McCain?

Anonymous | 7:57 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Why not just print this republican talking point letter everyday and just put a different name by it? Oh, nevermind, you are way ahead of me.
Obama in a landslide!

ediddy | 7:57 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

@ Dear Bradley 1:38 AM:
How prophetic your sacastic words may be indeed. In an important election for who will inded be leading this country, the thought that a racist, socialist leaning, and untested 2 year Senator from Illinois might be exactly what many claim he is, ought to be at least considered. We don't really know who Barack Obama is, and his supporters scream foul any time someone even questions his innermost intentions. He is not our uncle, brother or poker buddy. He is someone who will have the power to alter the three way constitutional checks and balances of this nation. I will not simply gloss over the subtle undercurrents you so glibly rush to sweep under the rug in your hurry to coronate a new king. Neither will I do that for John McCain or anyone else. Once elected, we will be collared with the real Obama or McCain, warts and all. Once the "change" is made we will be impacted by it for generations to come. Your foolish name calling will not substitute for reality if yu are wrong.

Elwood P Dowde | 7:59 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Yes, we're all just stupid and will be watching Obama win by a landslide come November 4th.

YOU have had McSame in the Senate for how long? He knows how to end a war. Why hasn't he? He knows how to fix our economy. Why hasn't he? He's been in office for how long? Far longer than Obama. He's 72. Does he have more experience? Life experiences, yes. I'm from the Vietnam era. I'm grateful for his PAST military service. That isn't enough. McCain: Thanks, but no thanks.

Confused | 8:03 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Wheater you vote for Obama or McCain, this country is headed for four very very long years.

You think Obama is the savoior of the country? You decieve yourself. The people who you should really be worried about are those that control Washington.

RedShirt | 8:10 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

To "Sally in England | 6:39 a.m." it is Christlike to give to the poor if you do so with a willing heart, not because the government said so.

You may not think that the healthcare system in the US is fair, but life isn't fair. Do you think it is fair that a Professional basketball player gets paid $10 million or more to bounce a ball around, yet a teacher staring out makes $35,000?

I think that it is great that you feel that since you have so much that you want to help the poor. The problem that I have is when the government decides that I have too much, then decides who will get the help.

If you really looked at where Obama and McCain are taking the US, they are really headed toward the same goal. The only difference between the two is that Obama is trying to get there as fast as he can and McCain is taking the scenic route.

Anonymous | 8:11 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Any LDS person has absolutely NO ROOM to make a big deal about things that are said in someone else's church.

Anonymous | 8:16 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Whenever you see wide swaths of normal, tolerant intelligent people making a political move, Bradley, you might want to consider what YOU are missing in the dialogue.

Time for a change. And if you don't know what Obama's plan is, or what he is about, you have only yourself and your biased news sources to blame.

GWB | 8:17 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Greg, you say "BASIC HONESTY: I pledge to take public presidential campaign financing [estimate at roughly $85 million]." Oh wait, the money's really rolling in. I only said that because [fill in your own handy excuse]."

Care to reference exactly where he said that?

Perhaps you read more into his statement that if he became the nominee he would hold discussions with the Republican nominee on acceptance of public financing of the general election campaign.

My friend, pledging to hold discussions is not the same as pledging to accept public financing.

Oh, and on his failure to vote for the " Illinois Infant Born Alive Protection Act", there was already a law on the books since 1978 that required the same protection. Google it and the truth shall set you free.

Ernest T. Bass | 8:19 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

If Obama's supporters are deceived, those who voted for Bush ought to be tarred and feathered.
You guys are largely responsible for the utter mess that Obama will have to clean up.
Bush has been a disaster and McCain brings more of the same.
Honest question: How was your life so bad when Clinton was president for 8 years? The worst thing you hang your hat on is an indescresion in the Oval Office. That's it. In Clinton's 8 years his personal mistake is all you can complain about. Compare that to Iraq, record deficits and financial meltdown and I'll take a democrat forever.

more nastiness from the right | 8:26 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Marcia Stirman, the chairwoman of a New Mexico women's GOP group, didn't expect everyone to get so upset about a letter to the editor she sent to a local paper. But apparently calling the Democratic presidential nominee "a Muslim socialist" makes people mad these days. Who knew?

In the letter, Stirman also wrote, "I believe Muslims are our enemies" and "I believe war is a fact of life and we should always win."

The missive has inspired condemnation from a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations. But Stirman doesn't mind. In an interview with the Associated Press, she said, referring to Muslims, "I don't trust them at all. They've sworn across the world that they are our enemies. Why we're trying to elect one is beside me ... I still have freedom of speech and an opinion. If the Islamic group doesn't like it, well, I don't like what's going on in their camp, either."

According to the AP, officials with the New Mexico Republican Party had no comment.

Lionheart | 8:40 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

@Anonymous 8:16: Whenever I see wide swaths of normal tolerant intelligent people making a political move, I am unconcerned about my opinion, it is not based on mass movements. Despite the left saying the race is over and Obama has won, I and others will be going to the polls and cast our votes based on our own thoughts and convictions. And I am not in mourning, whatever the outcome, I have always prepared myself and dealt with the situation at hand. My offspring do the same, then we trust to God, not some elected human official.

Robert Johnson | 8:45 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Wow....could you possibly get more lies and right-wing radio talking points in one post?

Honey, turn off your pundits like Hannity and Limbaugh and pick up a book or a newspaper. You might learn something that isn't spoonfed to you through the lines of these radio clowns.

Alex | 8:45 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

The author mentions Obama signs all over the Avenues. Obama signs are everywhere, from the Aves, downtown, Sugarhouse, 9th & 9th, down to Sandy where a good friend of mine lives. Hundreds--if not thousands--of Obama signs. Obama stickers are all over cars. How many McCain signs do you see? I've seen one, and my friend from Sandy has seen one. I've seen one McCain/Palin bumper sticker. My reasoning is that people believe in Obama's message. McCain will most likely win the State, but the lack of McCain signs and other McCain product makes me wonder how many actually believe in McCain's message?

Change | 8:50 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Change we need change... And so the mantra goes. Wait, does history decieve me? Isn't this is what every candidate has said and wasn't it, no wait, yest iwas, it was Carter/Modale which used almost the same exact slogan when they won, only to what? Cause long gas lines, 444 days of captivity for the Tehran Hostages, double digit inflation... maybe this change is just what we need to be able to get a Ronald Reagan back in office to put us back on track.

Lionheart | 8:53 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

@more nastiness from the right: Well Ole Ernest T. wants to "tar and feather" me for voting for Bush. That's pretty nasty from the left. Lots of nasty people in the world, as far as I can see the left doesn't has the moral high ground to feign injury.

Confused | 8:54 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

More Nastiness....

So now we can not express our own viewpoint without the PC cops (talking about you here) complaining?

Why are you so afraid of what people say? So she doesn't trust Muslims, who cares? If a democrat said he did not like Jewish people are you going to jump on that too?

The reality is people (reguardless of party) has unrealistic fears about people of a different background (race, religion, etc).

I work with special needs kids, you should see what the democrats say about them (just kidding, I don't know what party they are).

In Today's world we have some mean spirited people. Get over it.

Confused | 8:57 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Alex,
In my neighborhood in Sandy, The McCain signs are like 10 to 1 for obama.

Signs means nothing, people allow other people to put the signs in their yards.

In my yard there is one for a democrat running for office and a republican running for office.

Herriman (non) thinking | 9:04 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

First, I'd be willing to bet the educational background of the Avenues compares favorably against the educational background of Herriman.

Second, I guess Gen. Colin Powell and every 2008 Nobel Prize winner in the field of science must be "uneducated" for their endorsement of Obama. Poor dummies.

Finally, no one, and I mean NO ONE gets to whine about "socialism" any more. The $700 billion Wall Street bail out is a wooden stake through the heart of the "free market."

Lionheart | 9:08 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Regarding the number of Obama signs, Obama has the money to hire people to go out and put signs in yards. McCain is the poor down and out candidate, remember. No signs, no buttons, just the old warrior and his new warrior princess out there fighting against the big money. I think it's cool.

Mc | 9:12 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Reasons 7:08

I can give you the two reasons why I am voting for McCain, inspite of the fact that I don't like him any more than I like Obama.

#1 I have more confidence in the type of judges and Supreme Court justices that he will nominate. McCain has said that his top criteria will be a record of strict adherence to the Constitution, not legislating from the bench. Obama and Biden have said their top criteria will be finding people with their same political philosophy.

#2 With a Democratic Congress and the media totally enamored with Obama he will have a free pass on anything he wants to do as president. McCain will have his feet held to the fire with Congress and the media both ready to pounce on anything he tries to do. That will keep McCain from going too far in any direction. There won't be anything to stop Obama.

Gus Talwynd | 9:29 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

It is fascinating that the McCain faithful are so committed in their support for their chosen candidate that they assume that anyone who does not support John McCain must be either stupid or under the influence.

Now, let's see. Major Republican pundits are so disappointed with John McCains selection of a running mate or the negative way he had run his campaign that they feel a great need to rebuild the Republican Party and get back to it philosophical roots. In effect, they feel that it may be best to forgo the election this year, regroup, and make their bid in 2012.

Lesser men than Colin Powell have seen the hope and wisdom of Barack Obama, including this writer, and believe that they are making a thoughtful and intelligent decision in their support. Notwithstanding the letter writer's claims, it is not a decision taken lightly, but real change from the disaster of the Bush administration requires a new direction and a new team in the form of Obama/Biden and the people they will bring to solve the problems that confront us.

With McCain/Palin we will get the same people to run his administration as those who are currently Bush ideologues.

Oh Please | 10:21 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Bradley, I will put my education up against yours any day...and I don't even live in the Avenues! Your words do not persuade. I've heard them all a thousand times and they do not correspond to reality.

@Sally in England | 10:56 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Whats wrong with spreading the wealth around? thats what Christ would do?
If Christ were the one spreading the wealth around then it would be great. When its the inefficient government spreading the wealth around, then we are going to have problems. Look no futher than Social Security scam. or Medicare. They have been a financial boondogle.
Obama is just telling the masses that he will spread the wealth around so that he can gain power.
When he becomes President, and I think he will -Acorn- then I hope my family and my fellow Americans will have enough in storage and savings to last a while.

Confused | 11:00 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Gus,
I can say the same thing about the Democrats who post on these comments boards.

If you think different than someone else you are stupid is what both the far left and far right thinks.

I think this election is going to closer than anyone predicts it going to be?

Why?

Because 80 percent of America is neither a Republican nor a Democrat. They vote for the choice that best suites them.

Morgan | 11:09 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

To Sally in England:

The difference between government-mandated income redistribution and Christian charity is fundamentally one of principle and choice.

Christian charity and generosity are voluntary offerings borne out of love and gratitude for God and one's fellowmen. Government-mandated income redistribution is based on forced payment. A gift begrudgingly given or enforced by law is not really a gift at all.

Christian charity and generosity uplift and ennoble both the giver and recipient. Government-mandated income redistribution is not ennobling to the payer or the recipient. To the contrary, it robs the recipient of self respect. Moreover, it tends to reward indolence and punish hard work, achievement, and personal responsibility.

Research has shown that those who espouse conservative principles are the most generous people in America, while those who support government-mandated income redistribution tend to be parsimonious with their own bounty.

Really? | 11:17 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

really this is the best the deseret news gets in the form of letters? Have we not heard these exact same argument 20 or 30 times already this month alone.

and in the reddest of states yet | 12:25 p.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Lionheart thinks its cool that Obama has the support of more campaign $$$ than his hero McCain.

I wonder if he also thinks its cool when a McCain fundraiser had to be relocated from a huge Little America auditorium to a small private residence due to lack of interest?

2 bits | 12:35 p.m. Oct. 23, 2008

It's obvious Obama's supporters are deceived (if they really think he can give everyone in US healthcare and only tax 10% of the population to fund it).

But McCain's supporters are just as deceived (if they think he can deliver on his promises).

Mirror, mirror, on the wall ... | 12:39 p.m. Oct. 23, 2008

John McCain, taking a cross-state bus tour aimed at keeping vote-rich Florida from swinging to the Democrats, today accused rival Barack Obama of saying "anything to get elected."

No comment.

LOL!

You're kidding, right? | 12:49 p.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Morgan | 11:09 wrote:

"Research has shown that those who espouse conservative principles are the most generous people in America, while those who support government-mandated income redistribution tend to be parsimonious with their own bounty."

If you going to cite research espousing such trash at least have the decency to quote your references.

It allows those of us who are still seeking after truth (as opposed to people like you who have found truth and have stopped looking) to do the research need to gain a deeper understanding of any issue.

Sunshine | 12:50 p.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Lionheart
It is interesting the lack of information on these posts. People have to buy the lawn signs and put them out themselves; they are not put out by the campaign. The ï¿½big moneyï¿½ in the Obama campaign is because large numbers of very day people are donating to the campaign. You can keep your ï¿½old warrior and his new warrior princess,ï¿½ these are the really scary people out there. Speak of socialism, Gov Palin taxes oil companies then gave the money to the state citizen; who do you think paid the cost of the additional Alaskan taxation? How about Sen McCainï¿½s questionable associations with Keating and Joseph "Joe Bananas" Bonano, the head of the New York Bonano crime family? Do you really think Gov. Palin is a reformer? This is a woman who charged tax payers for 312 days she spent in her own home, not to mention the thousands of dollars to transport her children, not permitted under state statues. Itï¿½s sad you think all this is ï¿½cool.ï¿½

Obama has remained cool | 12:57 p.m. Oct. 23, 2008

The far-right lunatics in our country (and there are WAY more than I ever realized) have used these campaign insults to attack Senator Obama:
"AMERICA-HATER!"
"SOCIALIST!"
"COMMIE!"
"BABY-KILLER!"
"ARAB-MUSLIM-ATHIEST!"
"TERRORIST!"
"ANTI-CHRIST!"
Through it all, Senator Obama has remained reserved, calm, measured and respectful.
The way a President should act.

DKD | 1:08 p.m. Oct. 23, 2008

I've read through some of the comments above and I came to the conclusion that a lot of the comments made above are what is wrong with our political process. The name calling and hurtful jabs are what politics have come to in our country, from all parties including candidates and supporters. We seem to be more interested in gotcha politics and we seem to thrive on it. It is a sad situation we've gotten ourselves into. Freedom of speech is a priceless freedom we enjoy. We should be wise in how we use that freedom. There needs to be more healthy debate of the issues, not name calling and political jabs.

Lionheart | 1:57 p.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Dear Sunshine: Sorry some one charged you for your sign. My daughter got her McCain/Palin sign for free and my dad got his Obama signs for free and even gave me some that I could give to some of my Obamamaniac friends.

As to the Keating deal, I researched all that tempest in a teapot at the time. Some aide sent out a birtday card to Bonono, wow! McCain is not my conservative choice, but the rampant rabid dishonest attacks on McCain and Palin irk me. I will push back for truth and the American Way. By the way, the historonics of this election can't match the elections of old. Adams, Lincoln, Jackson, that there were some real donneybrooks.

Utah Dem | 2:00 p.m. Oct. 23, 2008

To RedShirt - you stated, "You may not think that the healthcare system in the US is fair, but life isn't fair. Do you think it is fair that a Professional basketball player gets paid $10 million or more to bounce a ball around, yet a teacher staring (sp?)out makes $35,000?"

If basketball players were paid with tax dollars they would not receive $10 mil either. But I bet you don't want to pay more taxes to help the teachers achieve a higher starting salary, do you?

So people whine about Obama wanting to 'spread the wealth around' and don't even understand what the man is saying. Stop bringing up 'Joe the un-plumber'; he doesn't have a contractor's license, he doesn't have the money to buy the business he claims he wants to buy, the business is not for sale, and it (the business) doesn't earn $250K a year.

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