Deseret News | BYU football: Cougars gear up for short week

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BYU football: Cougars gear up for short week

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Bailed Out | 10:15 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Once again, the refs gave the game to byu. byu has yet to have a quality win against a quality opponent. They only win when the refs hand them the game. I think the luck is about to run out...TCU wins 50-0

What do you get | 10:16 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

What do you get when a Cougar and UTE cross each other's path? Bad Football!!! You want to watch real football watch Florida and Georgia

Prophet | 10:19 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

My prediction: TCU 67 BYU 7

Comments continue below

Fully Invested | 10:20 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Luck vs. Execution, would you like some cheese to go with you whine? Really? That's your explanation for luck? By that definition I would say that Utah was lucky to beat Michigan, Air Force, and Oregon State. I can't believe Ute fans are going back to the luck card again.

Bender Rodriguez, That's nice that you have an opinion, but until Utah can beat BYU on the field, BYU is the better team. Come up with all the reasoning you want, but until Nov. 22 BYU has the best argument for being the better team; scoreboard.

Fender Bender | 10:26 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

The true break down:

Oregon State > UCLA > N Iowa > Weber State > Michigan > Utah State

(N Iowa is ranked in the Top 10 in the FCS, Weber State should be ranked in the Top 25 when this week's poll is released.)

If you want to use comparative scores, then, BYU's 59-0 shutout (worst UCLA loss in 80 years) is much more impressive than Utah's come from behind miracle finish vs Oregon State.

Oh, and while you're at it, don't forget that even with BYU's 2nd and 3rd stringers playing most of the 2nd half, BYU still shut out Wyoming 44-0 vs 40-7, advantage BYU vs Wyoming.

Who's better?

Dispite the Utah homer voter who gave Utah a #1 vote in the Harris poll.

BYU #8 Coaches, #9 AP, #9 Harris
Utah #13 Coaches, #14 AP, #14 Harris

The concensus, is BYU is better than Utah.

Fully Invested | 10:29 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

RE: To Mr. Unlucky, you're using prcentages as an argument? Typical Ute fan. The kicker from UW said that the kick would have been blocked no matter where the ball had been placed.

As far as your "momentum" argument, there are so many what if's involved that I am not even going to enter into your world of unicorns and fairy tales.

Blocked kicked | 10:36 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Statistics are meaningless in evaluating a single play -- Washington's extra point would have been blocked regardless of whether it was kicked from 34 yards or 19 yards.

Selective projection based on your own personal bias regarding what "would have happened" if New Mexico's TD had stood.

It's just as likely, BYU would have reacted just like they did last year when Utah took the lead late in the game.

Just like the almost touchdown created some urgency to score their final to salt the game away, an actual touchdown would have done the same.

re:Bender | 10:48 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Michigan is better than UCLA or Oregon State?

The same Michigan that is 2-4, and was just beat by MAC 1-3 going in Toledo in the "Big House".

You lost me at hello.

Bender Rodriguez | 10:49 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

re: Fully Invested | 10:20 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Sometimes its better to be lucky than good like BYU this past saturday.

You are assuming I care about local football. I am U graduate but truthfully don't give 2 hoots.

A BYU fan resting on past laurels? I'm shocked. NOT! I'm surprised you did not bring up 1984... not the Orwell novel.

The past is the past. If you really want to play the history card, just look at the series record since inception.

Time of Kick Off | 10:57 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Is 6:00pm Mountain Time

Sanity | 11:00 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

BYU by 20 over TCU.
BYU by 30 over Utah.
Utah will lose at New Mexico

Hmmm... | 11:01 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Will this game be more of a "neutral field" type of game for BYU? Supposedly 1/4 to 1/3 of the stands will be filled with BYU fans.

crystal ball | 11:03 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

re: Blocked kicked | 10:36 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

>>Washington's extra point would have been blocked regardless of whether it was kicked from 34 yards or 19 yards.<<

Says you Nostradamus.

Lowell & Chad | 11:04 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Harvey Ugna will win the Doke Walker award like Luke Staley before him. He's better than 3/4 the Rbs in the pros with his agresive running style and softer than Utah's defence hands. Mark it down, now.

SEC | 11:09 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

who is TCU?

VERSUS | 11:10 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

And of course it's on VERSUS so most of us won't even see it. Could the MWC TV package be any worse?

Hmmm... | 11:15 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

What do you get | 10:16 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008
"What do you get when a Cougar and UTE cross each other's path? Bad Football!!! You want to watch real football watch Florida and Georgia"

I watched Georgia get absolutely pounded by Alabama.

I also watched part of Florida losing at home to a mediocre Ole Miss team.

No one in the SEC has been as impressive as the Big 12 teams. Oklahoma looked better in a loss to Texas than Georgia has in any of its wins.

Re: Luck vs. Execution | 11:15 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Wow....a bunch of cougar fans all riled up....an unexpected and welcome outcome of my original post.

Try to get this straight in your minds what I am saying: I, like the New Mexico coach, don't know if the blown call would have led to a win for NM, but I do know that all of the momentum that they had built on that long, sustained drive was yanked out from under them from the OFFICIALS!!! It wasn't BYU that changed the momentum, it was the officials. So, they had a DIRECT impact on the game. Maybe BYU goes on to win, maybe not....but the momentum in a game is a huge factor. Not execution, just LUCK that the official made a bad call to help BYU.

As for the PAT kick, believe what you will but any kicker will tell you that a 20 yard chip shot is VERY different from a 35 yard field goal in the trajectory....but I'm not going to go over this again.

Bottom line, OFFICALS have changed the momentum and possibly the outcome of 2 BYU games.......as a result of LUCK!!!!

explain to me | 11:15 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Why the Fiesta & Insight Bowls have been to a Utes game? Who has visited a BYU game? The Independence? The Sun?

Say BYU goes undefeated & ends up playing Mizzou, OU, LSU, Ohio St or Georgia (each with 1 or 2 losses) plays BYU in the Fiesta or Sugar. Cougar fans will whine they did not get a "fair shot".

Its really irrelevant to talk about hypotheticals especially when BYU has no chance no matter how you slice it.

Ok | 11:16 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

So to the two Cougar posters who have appealed to the polls as evidence that BYU is better than Utah: that's fine. That's a legitimate argument to make. I just hope you're not the same ones crying about how "unfair" the polls are. If you're going to use the polls and the voters as a measuring stick, then don't turn around in the same sentence and cry about how they disrespect your team. And I'm not saying you two posters have done that. Just don't do it.

BYU TCU | 11:19 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

If BYU has 0 turnovers BYU 24 TCU 14
If BYU has 1+ turnovers TCU 24 BYU 20

Can't root for Utah | 11:21 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

If it weren't for the low class fans, I could actually find myself rooting for the Utes in some cases... but the low class contingent of Ute fans sort of spoil the soup for me.

Re; bender | 11:27 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

You're losing whatever credibility you had.

1) BYU has beat the U the past two years. So BYU is clearly better. We own scoreboard till you beat us.
2) Both teams have benefitted from "officiating" this year.
3) Both teams have had huge misses from officials too.
4) If you don't care...why bother reading...and then posting?
5) Finally, if both teams can remain undefeated, it only helps each other out! Can't you see that or is that clouded U degree not able to fathom that type of scenario.

lol at Bender | 11:29 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

who doesn't give two hoots about local football, but takes the time to read and comment about articles, not only on his own team, but on his opponent's team.

History card and past laurels?

How about 18 straight conference wins, 2 straight undefeated MWC championships, two straight Top 15 finishes, longest CURRENT winning streak in the country, and CURRENTLY ranked in the Top 10 in the Coaches, AP and Harris?

Is that CURRENT enough for you?

bottom line | 11:30 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

All this circular logic will be laid to rest when Oregon St beats Washington (this coming weekenend) & UCLA (on 11/8).

RE: Re: To Mr. Unlucky | 11:33 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Sorry, but you are dead wrong about the field goal. Even Washington's kicker, the guy that kicked the ball, stated after the game that he does not kick the ball any differently on a 35 yard field goal than he does an extra point attempt. He stated that, for him, the trajectory does not change. His own comment said that the kick would have been blocked either way because of the fact that the block point was only 3 yards from where the ball was placed by the holder. No one would have been able to get it over at that short of a distance. And that's a fact. The reason the conversion factor is so different is because of accuracy issues, not blocks.

Yes, as the saying goes, the more we practice, the LUCKIER we get.

The Three Signs | 11:35 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Three signs of an unintelligent fan:

1. To cheer for your rival to do poorly. What fun is there in beating a weak rival? Pretty soon it just becomes another game with Utah State. Intelligent Cougar and Ute fans want both teams undefeated as that makes a win so much better.

2. To make too much out of strength of schedule. Intelligent fans know that the strength of opponents are largely out of their control. Is all they can do is play and beat who is in front of them. NO ONE would have criticized BYU 4 or 5 years ago when they scheduled Washington and UCLA or when Utah scheduled Michigan. Those are all traditionally big-time teams and the Cougs and Utes stepped up like they should in scheduling them. No way anyone could have predicted then how good they actually would be this year.

3. To compare teams played in a given season. BYU did not beat the Aggies as convincingly as the Utes did therefore.... That is a ridiculous comparison given that intelligent fans know every game, every week, is a whole new deal in which anything can happen. Is Arkansas 31 points better than LSU? No

gas station | 11:37 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

So? Have Lenny Gomes and Luke Staley gome into business together after their Hall of Fame pro careers?

re:On a Bender | 11:38 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Yep, Utah and BJ will lead Utah to victory November 22.

How can you argue against Johnson and Utah's offensive output last Saturday?
Utah / Wyoming
1st Downs 11 14
Total Yards 242 252
Passing 119 68
Rushing 123 184
Penalties 3-30 5-28
3rd Down Conversions 4-17 2-13
4th Down Conversions 2-2 0-2
Turnovers 0 5

Wyoming had 3 more first downs, 10 more total yards, Utah was 4-17 on third down conversions (can you say going for it on 4th down twice and FG over making the big plays on 3rd down will work against BYU and TCU?) TO's and poor field position by Wyoming will not decide those games.

Utah will retain their proper place, third in the MWC by the end of the season, worst of the best.

what does it prove? | 11:39 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Utah beat Oregon St & Michigan
The Beavers got crushed by Penn St
Penn St should destroy Michigan.

nobody can hang with us? | 11:41 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

nobody can hang with us... say that when you beat a winning team with an actual offense and a first string quarterback. Hallelujah, byu is actually playing a team with a winning record. It only took half a season.

beating TCU | 11:41 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Beating this team doesn't mean anyhting. TCU was waxed by a top 10 team in OU. When will you cougars ge it. "UNTIL" you actually beay a team that is ranked in the top 10 and is still good by the middle of the season it doesn't mean anyhting. THe mtn. is an awful conference.

Re. Luck vs. Execution at 8:25am | 11:46 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

First off bad calls went both ways, and all games have bad calls. My take is the block in the back was a make up call for the bad late hit call a couple plays before, which would have stopped UNM earlier. I am sick of all this if BYU wins it is because the refs, and if they lose it is due to the refs. All teams have to suffer through bad calls, I mean did anyone watch the Oklahoma Vs. Texas game? In the end it all plays out and 1 team wins. So quit bellyaching and enjoy the game.

re:Bailed Out | 10:15 a.m. | 11:46 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

2 point conversion against Oregon State, and Mr. "guy who always makes the big plays" Johnson throws 5 feet beind his reciever.

No defender on him, or no flag thrown 10 seconds after the play is over, and OSU has a 2 point lead, runs the ball, gets a first down worst case and runs out the clock. Best case, gives the ball back with less than 30 seconds and Utah w/o timeouts misses a 65 yard field goal.

Talk about bail outs, look at your own team.

5-1 without a flag, and this is not a discussion.

Well, still a discussion because Ute fans care more about BYU losing than Utah winning, but still, Utes end up with 3 for sure losses (including BYU and TCU losses), plus whatever games they traditionally blow...

Lowell & Chad | 12:09 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Ugna will plow over TCU, Utah and anyone else we face. He would also plow over the Chefs, the cards, the lions, the vikings, and most of the other nlf teams.

Bender R | 12:13 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

re: lol at Bender | 11:29 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

I'm first and foremost a football fan and really don't care what y'all think of my opinions... they are just that.

Geography may be deterence but I don't let it keep me from thinking inside the box.

re: Can't root for Utah | 11:21 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

As opposed to the Pollyannas from down south with their us v the world, can't deal w/ a contrary or differing opinion mindset?

I refer to the overall series where the Utes are many games better than the Y; its taken the Lavell era plus the early Mendenhall regime to get as close as it is.

Matt | 12:15 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

To: Re: Luck vs. Execution

It's been stated several times but here it goes again:

Many NCAA and NFL kickers (including the Washington kicker and Louie Sakoda) have stated that there is no difference in trajectory between an 18-yard PAT and a 35-yard field goal. Have you ever noticed those nets behind the goal posts? To keep the ball from flying deep into the stands? Obviously a PAT is kicked as high as possible to avoid being blocked but they clearly go at least 35 yards based on how high up those nets they hit. So if that's the case, why wouldn't you maintain that same trajectory from 35 yards out, to avoid a block? Trajectory only changes for most kickers once you get 40 yards out or further.

You're right though, an 18 yard kick is much different than a 35 yard one, but mainly because of DIRECTION, not trajectory. Maybe the UW kicker made a terrible kick, with no height. Maybe nerves got to him. Who knows. But he, like any decent kicker will tell you, did not alter his trajectory in that situation. It was still blocked.

re:OK | 12:15 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

I claimed that according to the voters BYU is better - I myself make no such claim for either team - I was simply trying to show that sos is only one variable in the equation used in the minds of the voters that create the polls - that btw is subject to change next time they vote - using sos to claim superiority is like trying to play a song with one single note - it shouldn't be done!

Richard | 12:18 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

I am one Utah Fan that is hoping that BYU beates TCU.
I really want both teams to be undefeated in November, but reading the post of BYU fans makes it difficult to want BYU to win.

Listening to the radio and hearing the BYU fans is one of the biggest waist of time I can imagine.
I will agree that there are lame Utah fans,but there are so many more ignorant BYU fans that it makes me ill.

BYU is good, they have yet to prove they are great. Utah fans know that Utah is Good and not Great, if Utah can continue to win, and win out the season then they will warrant great.
BYU does not deserve to be in the talk for NC, and Max Hall should officially be out of the Hiesman talk.

Don't get mad Courgars, just get real and root for you team win or lose. I know that Utah fans will.

Aaron | 12:21 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Why is USC moving up in the polls? They're beating a bunch of loser teams in the Pac 10. Isn't byu beating a bunch of loser MWC teams, but they're not moving up.

Yawn | 12:22 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Enjoy the game against TCU. Cheer loud and often for your team. Show some sportmanship and respect to your opponent. Don't say negative things after the game about the refs or your opponent. If TCU plays well, compliment them for a job well done. Don't watch the game at the expense of your children or wife. It's only a game and can be Tivo'ed. Don't come on here next week and talk smack or down to other posters. And last of all, Who Cares, it's only college football, your not dying of cancer like me.

SD Ute Fan | 12:30 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Once again, none of this matters until Utah & BYU suit up and settle it ON THE FIELD at RES on 11/22. Until then, both teams need to just keep winning and the fans should all quit whining.

Hoping for a good game... | 12:30 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Hello everyone reading this BYU article including all of the Ute fans and Frog fans. I am a out of state BYU and not LDS. I haven't read one article about the U of U or TCU all year long. It is funny that so many Ute fans read the BYU articles. Anyway - BYU is good, enough said. Utah is Good, enough said. TCU is good, enough said, and so is the MWC. Let's hope someone from the MWC can represent this year in a BSC game. By the way, refs don't win or loose games, players and plays do. Calls go both ways and have always. I think it is safe to say that a PAC 10 ref didn't want BYU to win. Go Cougs! play your best on Thursday, I am thinking the final will be BYU 37 TCU 17.

Bailed Out | 12:37 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

to:re:Bailed Out | 10:15 a.m.
"Talk about bail outs, look at your own team."

Did I say I was a Ute fan?

Slammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Little Kitties, it's allways about you, isn't it....
You are so self righteous in your bubble.

Lowell & Chad | 12:46 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

I guess everyone agrees with me or else they would steep in and say that they don't. Ugna is the best RB in the MWC and probably the best, west of the Mississippi. He can ram it down the hole like nobody's business. I think he should win the Doke and be an NFL RB like Staley.

Rise and Shout! Go Cougs!

kwils | 12:52 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

to: luck vs. execution....

we all know byu got away with one with the block in the back call...

so, give em the score, and your right, they win...

better execution i guess

Funny Thing | 12:53 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Funny thing is how a Ute fan can come on to a BYU article and say that they are sick of listening to BYU fans. Isn't this where a BYU would come to talk about BYU football? Sorry if the BYU fans make you sick, don't read their comments, it really is simple enough. I would never waist my time on a U of U post. If you only want to make an issue about BYU, then you have some issue's of your own to be address. Go BYU, keep on rollin

re: lowell & Chad | 12:57 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

first of all, it is spelled Doak and second, that is the dumbest observation I have seen for a long time. I agree, he is good but not only saying the Doak, but the NFL comment, I have already wasted enough time on you guys. You guys are fans that think Hall should win the heisman and that byu has the number 1 strength of schedule as well. That is the tunnel vision we have all come to love from byu fans.

Re: Lucky Vs. Execution | 12:58 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

They claim that the PI call in the Utah vs. Oregon St. game was bogus. Not even the Versus announcers thought the call was bogus, as they claimed he got clobbered. The ESPN highlights also claimed the receiver was clearly interfered with. How can anyone (mostly cougar fans) claim the ball was 5 yards behind the receiver when he was stopped dead in his tracks and tackled at the back of the end zone??? So....according to all sources that aren't on a "Qwest for Perfection", the call was good.

As for BYU beating TCU....the opening line in Vegas is 1 1/2 points as BYU the favorite. If they are to be beat, this is the game (other than Nov 22nd, which is a toss up..See: last 3 years). Short week, road game, tough opponent all equals a very tough matchup. This will be the first time all year that BYU will be tested with a good team, so we'll see if that lofty ranking after playing nobody is really accurate (as Utah's was validated after beating OSU).

Good luck Y.

Tough week for Cougs | 1:00 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

If the Cougs play just average and the Frogs play better than average, the Frogs probably win this one. Same result if the Cougs play excellent but the Frogs play outstanding. If both pay excellent or outstanding, the Cougs win by three.

As for which team--Utah or Utah--has had the tougher schedule so far, the Utes win hands down. Oregon State (the best three loss team in the country) turned out to be the toughest team on either schedule. TCU will be BYU's Oregon State.

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