MESSENGER | 1:39 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
How can you say J Smith martyrdom? He had a six shooter shot three people two died(History of church Vol 7 p-100-107)
Let us be honest and do not redifine the facts

Re: Messenger | 11:38 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Was he not allowed to try to defend himself and others when more than 100 armed men stormed his jail cell and fired hundreds of rounds on four trapped men? That's one seriously messed up argument!
Jedd | 1:17 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Interesting, a martyr? I don't believe I have ever heard that before. Please tell me more.
Comments continue below
re: messenger | 1:24 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Why was Smith even ALLOWED to have a gun when he was incarcerated?

There was obviously no fear of him trying to break out and escape, or overpower/harm the guards on duty. If there was, any weapons would have been confiscated.

His attempts to protect his fellows doesn't make it any less of an assassination/lynching by the mob that killed him and his brother. He was in custody of the state, and the state was responsible for his protection and a fair trial.

He was also a high-profile detainee in Illinois: religious leader of the largest flock in the state; political leader of the largest city in Illinois; candidate for President, head of the not-small Nauvoo Legion, etc. Imagine if Ron Paul were locked up for some dubious reason and lynched while in state custody.

Whatever you think of the man, that's an outrageous miscarriage of justice. That the Illinois captors let him have a gun means they had no intention of protecting him themselves.
To Both "Messengers" | 2:40 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008
MANY things were going on during that moment in history.

This article was NOT about the martydom itself, but rather the part that Joseph Smith's running for U.S.
President had in the political climate of the whole
situation. The "politics" was just an element (a part) of the complexities of why BOTH Joseph and Hyrum were assassinated. The fact that Joseph was already President and Hyrum (Assistant President) of the LDS Church and both were "major players" in Nauvoo were probably Bigger reasons.

Remember, BOTH of the Smith brothers were killed. John Taylor was seriously injured and Willard Richards was not injured. The mob of over 100 could have easily killed all 4 of them if they wanted to.

What this article WAS ABOUT: > was the fact that there was a "political" element present in the atmoshere of that fateful day >> June 27, 1844.
Silly Willy | 5:38 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Ya Know? I think people have always been good about shoving the blame and covering up stuff. What ashame that people cannot admit that they are wrong at any time in history. Guns were used on both sides. Too bad people like to change history to make it sound good for others to hear. We will never know the truth about any of this stuff and it's so called politicking. Oh well, life goes on.
David | 7:53 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Martyr - "a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion"

Joseph Smith was not asked to renounce his religion and fought in a gun battle. By definition, he is excluded as martyr. Yes, he unfortunately was murdered but not martyred.
Joseph Smith... | 11:14 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008
was CONSTANTLY being asked to renounce his religion. That was a favorite thing to try to do to him. The men who were calling for his blood that last time made no secret of the fact that the main reason behind it all was the teachings of his religion. Yes, of course there were other factors, but religion was the main thing, and Thomas C Sharp did in fact call for him to renounce his religion, and said it would all go away if Smith would do that, and have his followers leave the state. And, since he knew full well he would be killed that day, and had told at least 20 separate people that he was walking to his death, but went voluntarily, yes, he is still classified as a martyr, even though he did try to defend his friends.

And the reason he had a gun was because Cyrus Wheelock had smuggled one into his cell that morning under a trenchcoat when he heard the Carthage Grays bragging to anybody that would listen that Joseph Smith would be killed that evening.

This is all recorded in multiple accounts for anybody who cares to look it up.

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