Deseret News | Reader comments: LDS Church urges pro-Proposition 8 calls

Reader comments
LDS Church urges pro-Proposition 8 calls

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I'm a Mormon Liberal | 7:55 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

...and I'm going to follow the counsel of my leaders. NOT because they're forcing me, but because it feels right.

Paperboy | 7:56 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

It's troubling to see the LDS church take a risky gamble like this and blur the boundry between church and government. The stakes are pretty high. I wonder if its worth it to take such a risky gamble?

KR | 8:00 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Prop 8 is going down. These efforts are a big waste of time.

Comments continue below

Michael B | 8:14 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Paperboy, I would say that the risky gamble is doing nothing. Want to save the economy? Protect the family. Want to reduce crime? Protect the family. Want to improve quality of life? Protect the family.

The outcome of Prop 8 will have a greater effect on our futures than the outcome of the presidential election.

"Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets."

Laker Fan | 8:30 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Me and my partner despise all you people who vote against our rights to be together. Strait people will all pay. Some day it will be people like us who will own America.

emily | 8:32 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I am grateful for leaders who guide us in decisions that are for the good of everyone in this country.
I am glad they have the courage to speak out in favor of or against things that effect all of us.

I really wish they would give more direction. I would be happy if they would tell me who is the lesser of two evils between Obama and McCain. I can't stand the thought of either of these two being President.

Church and State | 8:32 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

There is a misconception about the separation of Church and State. The separation only applies to the State. That is,the State cannot require Church membership or have control of the Church. (See England.) The Church, on the other hand, has a constitutional right to expression on political and social issues.

Just the facts | 8:36 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Michael - My friends Dan and Mark have had a lasting relationship for nearly 20 years. For some time, the laws of California granted them all the protections of marriage without calling it so until the recent court decision which simply said it can be called marriage. Nothing else changed. Only the label.

Now, explain to me how changing the label of their relationship will cause the disintegration of your family?

LDS and Opposed to 8 | 8:38 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I am going to OPPOSE the "counsel" of my leaders, because they have no concept of individual liberty and the horrible tyranny that religious zealotry imposes on minority groups! You would have thought they would have learned a lesson from the religious persecution of our history.

Vote NO on Proposition 8!

Politely refuse to participate in forcing our moral beliefs down the throats of others and exploiting the amendment process to do so!

Just Say No!

willis | 8:40 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

At the root of this power play is the Gaystopo. The domestic partnership laws in California already give any two people to register their relationship and have full legal rights. They can do a ceremony with that or not.

Being able to put the word marriage on they're already legal arrangement gives them leverage to force their beliefs on others. No "hate" speech from a pulpit for instance.

This is a further power grab from the same folks who get a lions share of research money for AIDS when other more widely spread diseases get little.

It's not about rights, but consolidating the power grab.

American Mormon | 8:49 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Looks like many people choose to follow the council of their political parties over church leaders inspired by God. I refuse to be Republican or Democrat. Both parties have too many ideas that are contrary to gospel teachings. America is divided! What ever happened to the constitution and 1 one nation under God? I am ashamed of the amount of disrespect and apostate beliefs by church members here.

Underground | 8:50 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

The Church's support of Proposition 8 is an offense to freedom-loving peoples everywhere. It is an affront to democracy. It is a step backward into the Dark Ages where religious authority ruled and ruined the lives of billions. It is an echo of the Nazi fascism of the 1930s, who used Christian theologians and philosophers to generate sophisticated propaganda against gays and lesbians as well as Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, and many other unpopular groups that did not march lockstep with the Nazi ideology. This is no different. I wonder if we will see a renaissance of the "toothbrush mustache" in Salt Lake City and Church Headquarters? In fact, that's a way to show your public support for Proposition 8: wear a "toothbrush mustache" if you support Proposition 8! We would love to see your fascism displayed in all its glory!

Ernest T. Bass | 8:57 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Bigotry from an individual or an organization is so sad and wrong.
One day they'll figure it out and be ashamed for their actions.

Anonymous | 8:59 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I think the LDS Church is awakening a sleeping giant: a population of people, both gay and hetero, who see the atrocity of this move and will despise the LDS Church and other religious fanatics for this foolish attempt to restrict the liberties of others. I am LDS. I am appalled by this attempt to force gays and lesbians to abide by our beliefs. Let them worship how, where, or what they may and allow us the same privilege! What ever happened to that? The Church is way off base here.

inferno714 | 9:00 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Okay, here's how I think. I think that what two consenting adults do behind closed doors is none of my business. It's not my duty to stand as their judge. The Lord loves them just as much as he does any of us. However, that doesn't mean I condone or agree with what they do. I'm not from California; I'm actually from Washington (going to BYU), but it's only a matter of time before other states follow suit. I do not want my children to learn about "alternative lifestyles" and how the relationship between two men or two women is the same as the one I have with their mother, because it's not, and accepting it as such will only contribute to the downhill decline of American society. I'll draw a lot of ire for saying that, I know. I can't deny, though, that the people I've seen most successful in my personal encounters have been those raised in a loving home by two parents, a mother and a father, still married living at home. Forget all this new-age liberal stuff. If we go back to traditional, conservative values, including traditional families, society will improve so much. Mark my words.

Kent Parsons | 9:03 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I love the LDS church. It has the brass to stand up for what is right. I applaud the LDS people who are involved in trying to thwart the advance of gay marriage and other immoral nonsense.

dave4197 | 9:04 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I'm a California voter, and we did the phone calling last time this proposition was on the ballot, and it passed 60-40. Thanks, though, for offering to help wtih the phone calls, in case we need that extra help.

Re:Underground | 9:05 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

The Bible says mariage is between a man and a woman.
You are the extremist here. The LDS church teaches to love gay people. Not hate them. You are in the wrong here. And your bitter hate is greater than any one elses blog here. Stop hating.

Please Explain the logic | 9:05 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I understand marriage is worthy of defense. I am not especially pro allowing gays to marry, personally I think that they have all the benefits now.

However I fail to see the logic of how allowing them to marry is an assult on marriage. Will someone please explain this? How will allowing gays to marry affect my (or your) marriage?

Pay Taxes then | 9:06 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

This has nothing to do with the establishment clause but rather tax law. The LDS Church is jeopardizing its tax-exempt status with overt political actions such as this.

hjklzxcv | 9:09 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

It's sad to see anti-Mormon bigotry thinly disguised as pro-gay advocacy. Mormons are the only true pro-gay advocates because Mormons are the only ones who will tell gays the truth: They can change and they are welcome to ask for help from our church. Don't despair. We can help.

Mahershalalhashbaz | 9:17 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

To Anonymous 8:59 pm: You have it all backwards. It is this gay movement that seeks to make illegal the phrase "let them worship how, where, or what they may." For example, in Massachusetts the Catholic church was forced to use their adoption charity to give children to gay couples, or they could no longer perform that benefit to society. So they simply had to quit. It is AGAINST thier religion!! Right or wrong, they are being forced to do something they don't believe is good. So you have it all wrong.

Yes We Can | 9:20 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Liberals paint anyone who opposes them as a bigot or a hater. But being opposed to homosexuality on moral grounds does not qualify one as a bigot. Homosexuality is a threat to our society because it threatens the normal marital and family structures. It is wrong to teach young people that homosexuality is just another lifestyle. Yes, the Bible does say in several places that homosexuality is wrong, but one does not need the Bible to intuitively know that such behavior is not normal.
Some people continue to spread the lie that being gay is acceptable and they point to so-called scientific studies as if such studies were more reliable than common logic and morality. Homosexual conduct runs counter to logic and to the symmetry of the sexes. Sodomy is not a natural act for either hetero or homosexuals.

Mahershalalhashbaz | 9:23 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

For any reading that support the gay movement AND believe in the Holy Bible. Ponder these words: Malachi 4:5-6 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."
Perhaps we are already being cursed (the economy). Gays in general have no children. God never intended for it to be so. If he did, he would have made it so. And gays are not the only ones to blame for the curse. Adultery, fornication etc. These things turn the heart of the children away from their fathers. And parents from their children.

Matt Johnson | 9:26 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

To Please Explain the Logic- I share your frustration. I've spent a good hour today searching for a secular article that would explain how gay marriage will hurt the family. Dennis Prager and Orson Scott Card have both written pretty good articles. Also check out the chapter "Where we lost the plot" in the book Covenant Hearts by Bruce C Hafen.

It's hard to do in under 200 words, so I'm not going to attempt it. I wish more members of the church would explain why gay marriage will hurt the family. It's hard for me to explain to my friends "well... it's a sin!" then they respond "I don't believe in God" or the ones that believe in God ask "Why did God give me these feelings?" The fact of the matter is, the other side being more thoughtful and better expressing their opinions. I am calling out LDS members to express their thoughts better! Don't just settle for the easy answer, please explain to me how gay marriage will hurt society! I want to hear a well thought out answer!!!!

to anon and laker fan | 9:26 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

The Lord has made this statement:" marriage is between and man and a woman". His prophets and like minded religious people stand on His statement. Whether you agree or disagree is between you and the Lord. But, do not attempt to use the Lord's words against Him and His will. That is to mock God and God will not be mocked. The gay agenda is an agenda of forced acceptance into ALL facets of life and people's beliefs. The gays on this site are disceptive and they know it. Your comments give away your determination to destroy the free agency of religious liberty of others.

Californian Trapped in Utah | 9:28 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I love the quotes of "its an affront to democracy..." The voters voted the definition of marriage between 1 man and 1 woman and a biased court overturned the ruling. Now the voters get a chance to change that. Its the ultimate democracy in action here folks.

And those of you not concerned by this ruling are ignorant. It may ultimately effect your states' laws. Do you want California deciding whats right for Utah?

What I don't understand is why don't they just invent their own term for marriage? Call it egairram. Waste everyone's time and money on something else more productive...

Maggie | 9:28 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Yep. Proposition 8 is going down the tubes, and society as a whole will be just fine - and for some better. Now, rampant greed and corruption have just about done us in however. Such a narrow and cruel focus I do not understand.

rusby | 9:29 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I think that people who argue that the church has no right to do what they are doing lack any realistic grasp on what the constitution says. As church and state said, the constitution has no bearing on what a religion can do but only applies to governments.

voice of California | 9:35 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

San Diego here. This a terrible blunder. Prop 8 is going to fail big, and the Church will be embarrassed and look weak. Focus on the family and the message of faith, frugality, industry and community.

J Atwater | 9:38 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

How about a "Proposition No War"
Murder by abortion and destruction of the family is no less an issue than abhorrence of war, yet our leaders refuse to see the injustices's there.We seem to be a bit lop sided. They will tackle so called "Democrat issues" but they refuse to tackle equal issues of greater concern, detruction of life through ill concieved values of a so called 'Partiotic war.The Republican destructions. Lets be vocal on all these issues of grave concern.The world is looking at us, and we appear to be biased on Godly issues.

utah rose | 9:42 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Here's how gay marriage will hurt the family. First of all, it would consider it "normal" for two sexes to marry. A same sex marriage will not produce children unless artificially produced. I am not LDS by the way.

It is a challenge for gays to have those feelings and remain chaste--maybe that's why God gave you those feelings --to challenge you, just as it is difficult for some singles to remain chaste, some people who are addicted to drugs and alcohol to avoid them. You see, everyone is born with some weakness or trial to overcome. This law will also open the door to fining churches, etc. for not marrying gays, businesses etc. Also, do you want your children learning from the age of kindergarten that gay marriage is the same as marriage between a man and a woman? Because that is what their agenda wants.

Organizations are trying | 9:43 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

to blame gay people for problems in marriage and it has nothing to do with them. Gay people want to build up themselves by showing commitment like you claim you want to. If you want to strengthen marriages then strengthen your own. If you want to build up families then build up your own. Stop trying to blame heterosexual marriage problems on the wrong people.

re:Laker fan | 9:43 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

You will "own America" at the most for one generation... then your lack of offspring due to your lifestyle which is contrary to nature will end your "ownership". Good luck on that one.

BTW, it's straight, not strait. You're brilliant.

Anonymous | 9:44 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I urge calls against 8, and against the church. It's time to put them in their place.

inferno714 | 9:45 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

To Yes We Can: That's exactly what I was trying to say in my first post. You hit the nail on the head. Thanks a lot.

I read that if gay marriage is allowed, then clergy who refuse to perform gay marriage ceremonies on religious grounds could lose their state authority to perform marriage ceremonies. This includes Mormon sealers, meaning that our sealings would no longer be recognized as valid marriages by the government. It could also mean that religious schools could face heavy fines and/or lawsuits for refusing to accomodate same-sex couples in married student housing. This will never happen at universities like BYU or Notre Dame, and I pray that these institutions will stand up for what they KNOW to be right rather than cave under pressure, even if it means closing on-campus married student housing. The worst thing any of us can do is accomodate people. If we have a belief, we need to find a way to follow both the law and our beliefs. Same thing goes for the temple marriages. If they won't count, so be it. We'll get married civilly first, then immediately go get sealed. WE WILL NOT ACCOMODATE PEOPLE!!! SO HUM BABE!!!!!!!!!!!

the purpose of life | 9:46 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

By legalizing gay marriage, we as a society are in open rebellion against God, against the plan of salvation, and the whole reason we are here on this earth. We will take another step closer to becoming the Sodom and Gomorrah of this day and the results will be just as destructive to the whole society which we are a part of.

Love the sinner | 9:53 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

but hate the sin.

Marriage not an issue? | 9:53 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

The family not an issue? Really, please come to my inner city middle school. I don't live anywhere near Utah. 85% at risk- 35% live with someone other than mom or dad ( any mom or dad).- only 10% have both parents in the home or near them if not in the home. Crime in their community is at an all time high. You don't go out after sun down unless you have people with you or a weapon. Yeah, marriage is no big deal. Yeah, family is no big deal. Yeah, and you live on another planet or in a high rise apartment, suburban neighborhood, or you don't have children in a poor city school. (gays rarely place their children by adoption in our inner city school because gays who adopt are rich and put them in liberal arts private academies) Gays know nothing about the destructive nature of not having a stable family of mothers and fathers. They are clueless and selfish. If gays really cared, they would support and demand parents are there for their children and realize without a male and female, their adopted child would not be.

Anonymous | 9:58 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I applaud the LDS Church for standing up to the homosexual mafia.

Cali Girl | 10:06 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I was involved in a phone call campaign and we received more YES'S than no's in supporting Prop 8!!
And those who weren't sure or no - after being educated on the consequences and that same sex relationships ALREADY enjoy their rights and protection changed to YES!

My other question is why would those who are not supporting this Proposition even be on this site and comment? That would be like me going on a no site - which would make me look like a complete moron.

good point!! | 10:07 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

"By legalizing gay marriage, we as a society are in open rebellion against God, against the plan of salvation, and the whole reason we are here on this earth."
Do you need a better reason than that???

Cali Girl | 10:07 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

"Only Marriage between a man and a woman is valid and recognized in California" Proposition 8 is simple and straightforward. It contains the same 14 words that were previously approved in 2000 by over 61% of California voters.
Voting YES on Prop 8 does 3 simple things: It restores the definition of marriage to what the vast majority of California voters already approved and what Californians agree should be supported, not undermined. It overturns the outrageous decision of four activist Supreme Court judges who ignored the will of the people. It protects our children from being taught in public schools that ï¿½same-sex marriageï¿½ is the same as traditional marriage, and prevents other consequences to Californians who will be forced to not just be tolerant of gay lifestyles, but face mandatory compliance regardless of their personal beliefs

Gomer | 10:10 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

You people in California are so funny,
begging for an 8 billion dollar government bailout,
and a piece of paper saying that Adam and Bruce can be together until death do you part.

Whats next,
Oh Yeah,
fire insurance.

Cali Girl | 10:11 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Obama, Biden, McCain, and Palin SUPPORT Traditional Marriage. From the Vice Presidential Debate October 2, 2008.

Why change something that was created to exist from the beginning of time???

Clue #1: We are all born male & female, FROM a male & a female. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

Said Sadly | 10:13 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I am sad that my church is taking these steps.

Anonymous | 10:18 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

All this and you have failed. Would god have you fail if he supported you? God is sending you a message. Retention is low, a Mormon can't get picked in the GOP for national office and you are about to anger Most Californians.

Call me! I can't wait to tell you want to say what I really think of you.

Anonymous | 10:22 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

For a good glimpse of some of the impacts that legalized gay marriage is having, and will have, on our world do a Google search on "When Gay Rights and Religious Liberties Clash" and read the NPR article (certainly not a church biased source). Any one who thinks this is just a matter of letting gays do what they want, is woefully uninformed.

aaron | 10:38 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

As a Mormon I understand the desire to protect the institution of the family. But I don't see the connection between legalization of civil unions and disintegration of the family.
If there is already desire for civil unions, then isn't there already an issue that is too deep for any legislation to change.
A homosexual man won't go strait simply because he knows he can't legally get married.

Californian | 10:38 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

* LakerFan: "Me and my partner despise all you people who vote against our rights to be together. Strait people will all pay. Some day it will be people like us who will own America. " *

Someone here mentioned a toothbrush mustache. LakerFan is the one who should be wearing it. Remember ï¿½Today Europe, tomorrow the worldï¿½?

Nobody should have any illusions about exactly what the ï¿½gay rightsï¿½ special interest lobby wants. It has nothing to do with hospital visitation, property inheritance, or the right to love whomever they choose--all of which they are already guaranteed as domestic partners. It is to coerce society to not just tolerate, not just accept, but approve their definition of marriage & their lifestyle.

You can see the lap dog of this special interest minority, the mayor of San Francisco, loudly braying on TV, ï¿½This doorï¿½s wide open now. It's going to happen, whether you like it or not."

Thatï¿½s right; whether the majority of society likes it or not, whether it is right or not, whether it is good for future generations or not. Today California, tomorrow the world.

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