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Sports and the economy — Will fans keep coming?
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Re: Re: Sorry | 4:01 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
"Actually compared to the rest of the world I was thinking the MLS is more
like class A or rookie league (ie: Pioneer League) baseball."
Okay, let's say you're right. I'd love to see the Bees, or even a Pioneer League All-Star team take down the Boston Red Sox. It's not going to happen. Yet for the last five or six years, MLS All-Star teams have beaten top teams from Europe, and MLS teams have been very competitive with many Mexican and South American teams. To say MLS is on par with a class A baseball league is to show full ignorance in the sport.
RSL has even beaten the Chinese National team, Tigres, Everton, and drawn with Boca Juniors. These are all highly respected teams, and the latter three would be compared to the Yankees, the Patriots, or the Lakers in their respective countries.
I agree MLS is not on par with the Premier League, but it competes very well with most of the other leagues worldwide, and on occasion with a few of the Premier League teams. We still have a ways to go, but the line is getting a little blurred.
Okay, let's say you're right. I'd love to see the Bees, or even a Pioneer League All-Star team take down the Boston Red Sox. It's not going to happen. Yet for the last five or six years, MLS All-Star teams have beaten top teams from Europe, and MLS teams have been very competitive with many Mexican and South American teams. To say MLS is on par with a class A baseball league is to show full ignorance in the sport.
RSL has even beaten the Chinese National team, Tigres, Everton, and drawn with Boca Juniors. These are all highly respected teams, and the latter three would be compared to the Yankees, the Patriots, or the Lakers in their respective countries.
I agree MLS is not on par with the Premier League, but it competes very well with most of the other leagues worldwide, and on occasion with a few of the Premier League teams. We still have a ways to go, but the line is getting a little blurred.
re: re: re | 4:09 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
"The MLS may only trail the NBA in average attendance by 624, but the % of
seats filled is quite a bit higher in the NBA... It would be even higher without
the freebees and the phantom seat dwellers like RSL had at RES. You could always
count on them announcing a crowd that was around 4-5,000 higher than the actual
gate."
True. I don't deny it, but the same can be said of every team in every sport in every league, professional or amateur. I recently attended a BYU football game where they announced it as a sell-out, yet I could see hundreds of empty seats throughout the stadium. I have also attended "sell outs" at MLB games, high school football games, USU Aggie basketball games, and other games, such as, *gasp* dare I say it? Utah Jazz games where the attendance is clearly not the figure announced.
True. I don't deny it, but the same can be said of every team in every sport in every league, professional or amateur. I recently attended a BYU football game where they announced it as a sell-out, yet I could see hundreds of empty seats throughout the stadium. I have also attended "sell outs" at MLB games, high school football games, USU Aggie basketball games, and other games, such as, *gasp* dare I say it? Utah Jazz games where the attendance is clearly not the figure announced.
Comments continue below
Nazdar | 4:14 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
I am a soccer convert of 4 years now. I will never turn back to the boring NFL
and showboat NBA. All of these sports are fun to play but I can't watch
anything but soccer. That is the only spectator sport that has enough action to
keep me interested. GO RSL!
Re: sorry | 4:17 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
"What about television ratings? NFL, college football, college hoops, NBA
and MLB TV ratings demolish anything from MLS."
The difference here is that the NFL is (of course) more popular, but also, a much larger league. There are over twice the number of NFL teams as there are MLS teams. Thus, there is a larger national market for television viewership. Even the NHL has over twice the number of teams MLS has, and that is why their TV ratings are higher. As for college hoops, they don't get high ratings 'till March. If MLS had 30 teams, their television ratings would naturally be much higher, as there would be a larger, more nationwide market.
If MLS ever has 30 teams (the league will probably cap expansion at 20 - 22 teams) then we can more accurately compare television ratings. Until then, we might as well compare a lake to a sea.
The difference here is that the NFL is (of course) more popular, but also, a much larger league. There are over twice the number of NFL teams as there are MLS teams. Thus, there is a larger national market for television viewership. Even the NHL has over twice the number of teams MLS has, and that is why their TV ratings are higher. As for college hoops, they don't get high ratings 'till March. If MLS had 30 teams, their television ratings would naturally be much higher, as there would be a larger, more nationwide market.
If MLS ever has 30 teams (the league will probably cap expansion at 20 - 22 teams) then we can more accurately compare television ratings. Until then, we might as well compare a lake to a sea.
Baseball | 4:27 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
So if baseball is the second most attended sport..
Then why is it not going to be in the 2012 olympics?
I am not trying to dis baseball i really am wondering why?
Then why is it not going to be in the 2012 olympics?
I am not trying to dis baseball i really am wondering why?
This just in... | 4:27 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
soccer fans live longer.
Betcha we'll out last you other losers.
Betcha we'll out last you other losers.
Long Live Soccer! | 4:30 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
Davis: "Why waste money on spoiled, undereducated, rich idiots?
I go to the local HS games. These kids actually deserve support."
You obviously don't realize that many MLS players make less than $20,000 a year, and most of them are in the neighborhood of $45,000 - $65,000 per year. There are a few who make upwards of $100,000 to $300,000 plus, but they are just a few per team. If you want to stop wasting money on spoiled, undereducated, rich idiots, stop watching football, basketball, and baseball, where their salaries dwarf MLS players' and are absolutely ridiculous! Congrats however, on supporting the HS games. You're right, those kids do deserve your support.
Soccer is lame: "I'm just glad soccer gives non-athletic kids some exercise and allows boys and girls to play together."
If you were to play a sport where you run an average of 8 miles, sprinting hard and fast, with no protective gear, hitting heads, knocking shins, and taking a beating crashing into one another, with no time outs, and one 15 minute break in a 90 minute span, you would be playing soccer, and would be more athletic than most baseball and football players.
I go to the local HS games. These kids actually deserve support."
You obviously don't realize that many MLS players make less than $20,000 a year, and most of them are in the neighborhood of $45,000 - $65,000 per year. There are a few who make upwards of $100,000 to $300,000 plus, but they are just a few per team. If you want to stop wasting money on spoiled, undereducated, rich idiots, stop watching football, basketball, and baseball, where their salaries dwarf MLS players' and are absolutely ridiculous! Congrats however, on supporting the HS games. You're right, those kids do deserve your support.
Soccer is lame: "I'm just glad soccer gives non-athletic kids some exercise and allows boys and girls to play together."
If you were to play a sport where you run an average of 8 miles, sprinting hard and fast, with no protective gear, hitting heads, knocking shins, and taking a beating crashing into one another, with no time outs, and one 15 minute break in a 90 minute span, you would be playing soccer, and would be more athletic than most baseball and football players.
UTAH BLAZE FAN!!! | 4:31 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
The best value out there is the UTAH BLAZE, I just bought season tickets for my
whole family 8 GAMES just $225.00 sweet. And my little boy loves the games. He
get to talk to the players, all the players give autographs. Its NOT LIKE the
JAZZ their to good to talk to my son. I waited two hours to see JOHN Stockton;
when we got there he said" I dont do autographs" What A JERK. THE
BLAZE treets you like you owned the team. VERY FAN FRIENDLY. I LOVE OUR UTAH
BLAZE; You WILL TOO. Try it its affordable. Ralph, Sandy Utah.
Anonymous | 4:32 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
I will be an RSL/Man U fan until I die. GO RSL!!! All the other sports are
BORING. American football takes 3 hours to play a 1 hour game. I hate watching
it. I always fall asleep.
Re: Surpass the NBA | 4:37 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
"I guess high school let out at 2:40 pm. Good gracious......MLS
stinks."
And yet, only 4 comments before yours were posted after 2:40 pm, when school let out. Most of the other 30 or 40 comments were posted during school hours. Don't cut down your audience before you know their age, or it's you who looks like you need an education.
Even if all these comments were left by high school kids, then in just ten years, soccer will definitely be more popular than basketball.......MLS rocks!
And yet, only 4 comments before yours were posted after 2:40 pm, when school let out. Most of the other 30 or 40 comments were posted during school hours. Don't cut down your audience before you know their age, or it's you who looks like you need an education.
Even if all these comments were left by high school kids, then in just ten years, soccer will definitely be more popular than basketball.......MLS rocks!
Como es de esperar | 4:40 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
Nielsen ratings for Mexican League and Mexican national soccer team games are in
the NFL region.
Of course, a Kevin Trudeau infomercial does better than MLS in Nielsen ratings.
Of course, a Kevin Trudeau infomercial does better than MLS in Nielsen ratings.
Finally | 4:41 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
NASCAR was mentioned. I'm not a big racing fan but let's face it,
NASCAR races draw hundreds of thousands of fans each and every week and is
probably the sport that reasonates with the middle and lower middle class
Americans the most. I think it would have to be ahead of soccer and even
baseball at the national level right now, perhaps pushing the NBA but not quite
the NFL.
The NFL (in America) is king. It's TV ratings for a regular season Sunday night game are higher than NBA play-offs games and even World Series games. The MLS and NHL are dwarfed by the NFL. Plus the NFL is the best ran professional league and its dominance will continue.
As far as the economy and sports goes, like the movies, they will be fine. When times are troubled people want diversion and the sports and arts provide that diversion. In fact, it could be argued the worst the times, the better the times for organized professional sports, the movies and TV.
The NFL (in America) is king. It's TV ratings for a regular season Sunday night game are higher than NBA play-offs games and even World Series games. The MLS and NHL are dwarfed by the NFL. Plus the NFL is the best ran professional league and its dominance will continue.
As far as the economy and sports goes, like the movies, they will be fine. When times are troubled people want diversion and the sports and arts provide that diversion. In fact, it could be argued the worst the times, the better the times for organized professional sports, the movies and TV.
? | 4:51 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
This article isn't about whether soccer is credible or not.. Its about how
our local teams are fairing in times of an economic crisis.
So quit making fun of or defending soccer. Thats not the point.
I am glad to see that RSL, JAZZ, Grizzlies, and bees are all succeeding during this economic crisis.
So quit making fun of or defending soccer. Thats not the point.
I am glad to see that RSL, JAZZ, Grizzlies, and bees are all succeeding during this economic crisis.
Oh, gee | 4:54 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
you mean big-gut Dolan and namby pamby rich-boy Huntsman didn't plan on an
economic depression when they hatched the plan to bulldoze this inevitable
failure into existence? Gee, I wonder if maybe an abjectly depressing economy
will affect the numbers of people who want to waste their dwindling money
reserves on soccer tickets?
Some really smart people came in and did an objective economic feasibility study before Huntsman came in with his little soccer parade to rescue the stadium. In it, the stadium predictably would not make nearly enough money to support itself, ever. It predicted major money losses for all involved. And that study was done BEFORE the economy started to collapse. This is richly deserved karma is what this is. And so, so predictable.
The only sad thing about it is the loss and burden to taxpayers. Hope those two or three really loyal soccer fans keep coming to the games. Then it won't seem like a total loss. Just a near completely total loss.
Some really smart people came in and did an objective economic feasibility study before Huntsman came in with his little soccer parade to rescue the stadium. In it, the stadium predictably would not make nearly enough money to support itself, ever. It predicted major money losses for all involved. And that study was done BEFORE the economy started to collapse. This is richly deserved karma is what this is. And so, so predictable.
The only sad thing about it is the loss and burden to taxpayers. Hope those two or three really loyal soccer fans keep coming to the games. Then it won't seem like a total loss. Just a near completely total loss.
US American | 5:00 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
Re: soccer is lame - You asked all of your friends? What size sample was that, 2
or 3? Maybe you should take your polling skills to Dan Jones and see what he
thinks.
And the reasons that baseball attendance has declined for four consecutive years is that there are too many games, and that the game itself is just too slow (or our attention spans are too short).
The NFL has really been able to effectively tap into the desires and appetites of American sports fans, but maybe now it is even showing signs of becoming too big for its britches.
Soccer is a great sport, but no one, not even MLS, expects it to quickly turn into a top American pasttime. MLS clearly recognizes its place in the American sports landscape, and is building stadiums with appropriate capacities; a 20k seat stadium is not overly ambitious.
And no, soccer is not just a sport for sissies, socialists, and foreigners - Americans happen to excel at this sport!
Sports are a great diversion, particularly in trying times. I happen to think we're very lucky to have such great local teams to support, in so many diverse sports!
And the reasons that baseball attendance has declined for four consecutive years is that there are too many games, and that the game itself is just too slow (or our attention spans are too short).
The NFL has really been able to effectively tap into the desires and appetites of American sports fans, but maybe now it is even showing signs of becoming too big for its britches.
Soccer is a great sport, but no one, not even MLS, expects it to quickly turn into a top American pasttime. MLS clearly recognizes its place in the American sports landscape, and is building stadiums with appropriate capacities; a 20k seat stadium is not overly ambitious.
And no, soccer is not just a sport for sissies, socialists, and foreigners - Americans happen to excel at this sport!
Sports are a great diversion, particularly in trying times. I happen to think we're very lucky to have such great local teams to support, in so many diverse sports!
granny5 | 5:01 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
Sports will continue - but they will need to lower their prices or the average
joe will not be able to afford to attend. $50 for a ticket or $50 for food. A
no brainer. Entertainment, even a stress reliever,will not get my money - not
if it means my kids are not fed. I'll read a book and watch the games on
tv. That's what I do now. When you are buying that ticket - prioritize.
Don't charge it - with interest rates (if you don't pay off bill each
month) will jack that ticket up to 3 times the value. Sorry - I can't
support the players, I have a family to support.
RE: Utah Blaze Fan | 5:31 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
You can get season tickets for the U's top25 football team for the same
price......
Go RSL
Go RSL
I Don't Understand | 6:08 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
Why is it that all of the sports teams from high school to pro need brand new
facilities every 15-20 years, or remodeled and updated? I can't believe
even in high school they need the latest of everything. Now they are traveling
all across the nation to play, even Hawaii. The dance and cheer teams, even the
debate teams. When is all of this madness going to disappear. One good thing
about high fuel prices might bring some sanity to the state and school officials
that promote these teeny boopers excursions. I don't even have room to
start in on the college and pro programs. Sports in general are out of control
with costs they expect the taxpayers to bear. I can't stand it. RIDICULOUS.
Cancun | 6:21 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
This Spring I was in Cancun...in the early evening as we were preparing to go to
dinner, the local sports station was televising an MLS game...by the way this
was the first night there. As the week went on, I noticed there was an MLS game
on each evening. We here "MLS...second rate...Triple A soccer" etc.
Well as I talked to staff (mostly college age to 30's) at the hotel I found
that Mexico is big soccer country. When I asked them what they thought of
MLS...they said "great league...it will be one of the top leagues in the
world someday" Now I know little about soccer, but if the sports stations
in Mexico play MLS games, and the average person knows enough about MLS to give
and educated comment...something must be right.
Mark | 7:09 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
I stopped going to games or spending any money on pro sports after the last NBA
strike. I simply refuse to give them any of my money. I watch the free games,
listen to the radio or read about it the next day.
If any of the pro-athletes are depending on me for part of their salary, they will be eating at the soup kitchen.
If any of the pro-athletes are depending on me for part of their salary, they will be eating at the soup kitchen.
What's the big deal! | 7:45 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
What is the big deal about how the MLS rates against NFL, NBA etc. Really, what
does it matter? All that shows is there are more people in the US that like
football than there is that likes soccer. Good for them. I like both. Bonus
for me I guess. To those who imply that because NFL is king, there should be no
MLS, that is pure stupidity. It is akin to telling people that because
"Beverly Hill's Chihuahua" is the number 1 movie in the county,
it is the only movie worth watching. It's my money and I will spend it how
I want to.
I like the Jazz but I think the player salaries are obscene so I don't buy tickets. My money goes to season tickets for Real and Utah Football. My guess is if everyone who felt this way stopped buying tickets, eventually the NBA would get a clue and prices would come down. All sports are a supply and demand business. We are the consumers and we dictate demand.
I like the Jazz but I think the player salaries are obscene so I don't buy tickets. My money goes to season tickets for Real and Utah Football. My guess is if everyone who felt this way stopped buying tickets, eventually the NBA would get a clue and prices would come down. All sports are a supply and demand business. We are the consumers and we dictate demand.
Dufus | 8:19 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
I gave up on pro sports. It's crazy that some complain that $20M/year is
not enough (or even $10M, or even $1M!). Those inflated salaries ultimately are
paid for by consumers and sports fans.
Frank Tater | 10:02 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
No mention of the Utah Flash????? Are you crazy? Why in the world would you
mention the Grizzlies and not mention the Flash?? Nice one.......
NBA in trouble | 11:03 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
I loved the NBA back in the Larry Bird/Magic Johnson day. However, now that it
has become the "gangsta/showboat league" I can't stand to watch
it.
Let's watch another dunk followed by chest pounding and staring into the crowd with an angry, everbody worship me look. No thanks.
Let's watch another dunk followed by chest pounding and staring into the crowd with an angry, everbody worship me look. No thanks.
soccer fans have it the best | 11:16 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008
Soccer fans have it the best. The sport they love is on all year. The EPL,
MLS, UEFA Champions League, National team play, CONCACAF Champions League,
Eurpean championships, Superliga, etc, It is awesome. Not only that but we get
our own American football and NCAA basketball. I feel sorry for non soccer fans.
So little sports to watch. I guess there's always the "Gangsta
Bastketball League" (Is it 2 points for chest pounding? I think it is 2,
and then it's 3 for menacing looks into the crowd followed by gang signs).
Cowboy | 8:19 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008
All of the comments competing over which sport is bigger are completely
misplaced.
Overall revenues offer a far better measure of the growth rates of each sport.
Current year-on-year NFL growth is averaging 8% and levelling out, while MLS is hitting 22% and increasing. Strip out inflation and MLS is catching up fast, but it is also expanding its reach faster. With regional and international competition (not to mention exhibitions) to add to the equation soccer has a huge in-built advantage.
So while MLS is at a much lower base the trends indicate that it has every reason to be more confident going forward.
Overall revenues offer a far better measure of the growth rates of each sport.
Current year-on-year NFL growth is averaging 8% and levelling out, while MLS is hitting 22% and increasing. Strip out inflation and MLS is catching up fast, but it is also expanding its reach faster. With regional and international competition (not to mention exhibitions) to add to the equation soccer has a huge in-built advantage.
So while MLS is at a much lower base the trends indicate that it has every reason to be more confident going forward.
Re: Cowboy | 2:15 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008
I cross my fingers that trend continues, and that just when somebody up there
finally liked us the global economy didn't come by and screw it up.
If MLS can keep its own house in order, the global downturn may make quality players cheaper.
If MLS can keep its own house in order, the global downturn may make quality players cheaper.
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