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Live prudently, LDS reminded
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oldman | 5:52 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Now let us see it practiced?
Cougar Blue | 6:20 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I think this advice is very timely. Part of the problem locally however is that
the predominant political party adherants seem to believe that if you
aren't making it financially, that somehow, it's entirely your fault.
There is very little room for compassion. I hear constantly that "well, if
they weren't so lazy, and would just plan better, they wouldn't be in
such bad shape." This is just opposite of what the prophet is saying. You
wanna bet things will change any?
CP | 6:25 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I think this is very wise council and that everybody needs to learn to do. If
people would learn to live within their means none of the mess on Wall Street
would have happened. Cause then people would have been able to pay their
mortgages and also people wouldn't have outrageous credit card debt.
Comments continue below
keepitinperspective | 7:39 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
We have to be really careful not to judge others and their situations. We really
do not know why they are in debt there could be many reasons. I know this first
hand. My husband is educated and very smart and by no means lazy but he has lost
his job three times in eight years. The past two and a half years he has been
unemployed or under employed. I took a part-time job at our children's
school, too. He now has a job but we are trying to catch up and just feed our
family. Also during this time one of our children needed brain surgery and we
did not have insurnace because we could not afford it. Luckily we were able to
get Medicaid. My point is we need not judge. We were given helping hands when we
needed it and not judgement. We should be willing to help regardless.
BeenThere | 8:12 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
There is far more to prudent financial living than many people know. Having
been a Relief Society President in a very challenged area and then through
personal and family financial struggles... I can tell you... You quit judging
and start helping.
I hope that some day soon the Brethren's messages will evolve just like they've evolved for teen pregnancies and family violence and other social ills.
Give the members tangible counsel not just to avoid debt, but how to remain faithful once you've gotten in way over your heads. Teach us how to bear up during the many years of "50% tribute" and "bondage", because it truly takes years to get out.
During those years, with credit cards cancelled and spending reigned in, life happens. Car repairs, household repairs, medical bills, funeral expenses, job losses. I hope they will guide the members through THOSE trials.
The World doesn't offer any training for that crushing burden, other than bankruptcy. We need the message urgently.
I hope that some day soon the Brethren's messages will evolve just like they've evolved for teen pregnancies and family violence and other social ills.
Give the members tangible counsel not just to avoid debt, but how to remain faithful once you've gotten in way over your heads. Teach us how to bear up during the many years of "50% tribute" and "bondage", because it truly takes years to get out.
During those years, with credit cards cancelled and spending reigned in, life happens. Car repairs, household repairs, medical bills, funeral expenses, job losses. I hope they will guide the members through THOSE trials.
The World doesn't offer any training for that crushing burden, other than bankruptcy. We need the message urgently.
LDSCajun | 8:31 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
The Church gives us wise counsel with regard to finances because follow they
have followed the same principles since the beginning*. The Church is still
able to provide for the spiritual needs of its people (5 temples announced
yesterday!) that is not dependent upon Wall Street.
* "Pay the debt...Release thyself from bondage." (D&C 19:35)
* "Pay the debt...Release thyself from bondage." (D&C 19:35)
Mary | 9:06 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Thank you for the comments already posted and the guidance of the Prophet. I so
heartedly agree with the concept of "do not ye judge others". I
married a man who's ex-wife was a serious prescriptin drug addict and they
had several hundreds of thousands of outstanding debt as a result. When we
married, I accepted his debt as my own and we have worked hard to lower that
debt. But, in order to do so, I had to work full-time. It's hard when you
have to choose between the counsel of getting out of debt and the counsel of
mother's staying home with the children. It was easier for us, as our
youngest was a late teenager and could come home from school and do her homework
by the time we both came home from work. So, 7 years later, we are close to
being out of debt so I can quit my job and stay home.
Again, please do not judge other's if you don't know their circumstances. Just be kind, be supportive and love each other, while we all try to work to adhere to the counsel of the prophets.
Again, please do not judge other's if you don't know their circumstances. Just be kind, be supportive and love each other, while we all try to work to adhere to the counsel of the prophets.
Jim J in Cedar Rapids | 9:12 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Debt happens! School, car, mortgage, life....I know we all have experienced
this. I believe President Monson's advice and wise counsel is timely and
should be considerated and followed as we move forward. For those already in
debt, then this is an opportunity to plan ahead on how we'll get out and
avoid that bondage in the future. The brethren recognize, as do most
bishops/branch presidents and stake presidents that many are in financial
bondage either through our own unwise choices or through the circumstances of
life (job loss, illness, etc) that have sapped our resources. We can turn to
our priesthood brethren for guidance and assistence. Some of that may mean
recognizing we need to make changes (get rid of a car, sell or rent at a lower
price, relocate to family). But, we have to make the changes and not expect the
Church to just bail us out. As one wise bishop told me, "we are not in
business with you to bail you out. But, we will help you take care of your
survival needs so you can progress."
With the exception of mortgage, we'll be debt free in six months for the first time in 30 years.
With the exception of mortgage, we'll be debt free in six months for the first time in 30 years.
Cats | 9:21 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Cougar Blue, As one who has spent most of my professional career in politics, I
CAN'T BELIEVE YOU BROUGHT POLITICS INTO THIS DISCUSSION. SHEESH!
The brethren want us to be self-reliant. We are to stay out of unnecesary debt, live prudently and NOT go to the government for financial help. If we need help we are to go, first to our families and then to the Church for assistance--NOT THE GOVERNMENT. THE BRETHREN HAVE EVEN ISSUED OFFICIAL LETTERS TO THAT EFFECT!
I once knew a guy who had a huge income, but lived VERY imprudently and carried a lot of debt. I told him he needed to get out of debt and get some cash reserve (I was a licensed financial advisor at the time). Then President Hinckley issued an anti-debt statement from the pulpit at General Priesthood Meeting. This guy's response--"that's nothing new, they've been saying that for a long time." He went on living very imprudently.
Well, I have since found out that this man has lost EVERYTHING. His million dollar house, his expensive cars--EVERYTHING due to debt and imprudence.
We need to follow the words of LIVING PROPHETS. GET OUT OF DEBT!!!
The brethren want us to be self-reliant. We are to stay out of unnecesary debt, live prudently and NOT go to the government for financial help. If we need help we are to go, first to our families and then to the Church for assistance--NOT THE GOVERNMENT. THE BRETHREN HAVE EVEN ISSUED OFFICIAL LETTERS TO THAT EFFECT!
I once knew a guy who had a huge income, but lived VERY imprudently and carried a lot of debt. I told him he needed to get out of debt and get some cash reserve (I was a licensed financial advisor at the time). Then President Hinckley issued an anti-debt statement from the pulpit at General Priesthood Meeting. This guy's response--"that's nothing new, they've been saying that for a long time." He went on living very imprudently.
Well, I have since found out that this man has lost EVERYTHING. His million dollar house, his expensive cars--EVERYTHING due to debt and imprudence.
We need to follow the words of LIVING PROPHETS. GET OUT OF DEBT!!!
to: Been There | 9:31 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
It's called "saving for a rainy day." The point is to anticipate
hard times so that when they come, we'll get through it. Church leaders
since Joseph of Egypt have been teaching and applying it. That's not to
say we should judge those who find themselves financially short as has been
pointed out above. That's why the prophet has said that those who can
afford to, prepare not just for yourselves, but to help others as well. Their
counsel does not have "holes in it" as you imply.
orion | 9:40 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I wish the LDS Church would come out as strongly against the hideous Iraqi war
and tens of thousands maimed and dead. Why is the Church numbingly silent on
that issue?
just a question... | 9:42 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Can I infer that from their own directives from the pulpit, the LDS Church is
paying cash for their 5 new temples and multi-billion dollar City Center
rennovations?
AFriend | 9:45 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Maybe if you take that 10% and use it to pay your bills you will be doing better
financially.
Just sayin'
Just sayin'
rn | 9:50 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Great comment but the majority of Mormons don't really believe it or they
would be living it. Utah is one of the highest in personal debt and bankruptcy.
And how many really have a years supply of food? Or pay 100% tithing? Or have a
'rainy' day cash fund? 3% or so. Yes they talk the talk but don't
walk the walk.
And I'm one who can say this. I'm out of debt: no house payment, no car payment, no ex-wife payment. I raised 8 kids and 2 wives and forked out $100K in divorces, sent 4 sons on missions, and still managed to pay off the house in 16 yrs, and retire at age 57. And that was in a lowely job as a school teacher in Utah. And to top it off I'm a 'Jack' Mormon! So if you really believe in the prophets words etc. why don't you live it? I believe it was Pres Benson who said "Avoid debt like the plague." Well, the plague is here, reap your consequences.
And I'm one who can say this. I'm out of debt: no house payment, no car payment, no ex-wife payment. I raised 8 kids and 2 wives and forked out $100K in divorces, sent 4 sons on missions, and still managed to pay off the house in 16 yrs, and retire at age 57. And that was in a lowely job as a school teacher in Utah. And to top it off I'm a 'Jack' Mormon! So if you really believe in the prophets words etc. why don't you live it? I believe it was Pres Benson who said "Avoid debt like the plague." Well, the plague is here, reap your consequences.
Elder Sack | 9:51 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
But yea, ye shall be judged by thine neighbours to be inadequate if thou hast
not a mcmansion, 2 suv's and a boat.
kathyn | 10:01 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
The prophet has given very wise counsel. I've had periods when my husband
was out of work for long periods of time. After doing all we could, we still
needed some help from the bishop. I am so grateful for that support. I went
back to school for training in nursing and that turned out to be a huge blessing
for our family.
Still there are many situations which arise that are impossible to plan for. However, when we follow the prophet's counsel we're still in a better place than if we hadn't.
After all is said and done, we need each other in times of crisis and my attitude is not one of "they made their beds so they now can lie in it." Without judgment we need to help each other, no matter what.
Still there are many situations which arise that are impossible to plan for. However, when we follow the prophet's counsel we're still in a better place than if we hadn't.
After all is said and done, we need each other in times of crisis and my attitude is not one of "they made their beds so they now can lie in it." Without judgment we need to help each other, no matter what.
re:Cougar Blue | 10:22 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
And many of the not-so-dominant political party want to blame everyone EXCEPT
the individuals involved. Personally, I could use a government bailout too but
at least I can recognize that many of our decisions netted me the position
we're in.
Marshall Brough | 10:49 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
So inspiring, so needed. Consistent and unwavering. Complete solution to
current chaos. Hope we will heed -- hope we will not wait for another (easier)
moment.
DennyG | 11:16 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Prudent. What an interesting word in the middle of building a 10 BILLION dollar
mall. On tithing funds.
Cats | 11:24 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
To Orion, You have perhaps forgotten the statement made by President Hinckley
from the pulpit at General Conference the day the Iraq War began.
President Hinckley stated that this is a RIGHTEOUS cause, it is a part of the War on Terror and that anyone who tried to thwart or interfere with this cause would be held accountable for it.
This is the statement that the Prophet of God has made. Now, are you going to try to claim that President Hinckley was an immoral, blood thirsty, evil man who loved to kill innocent people? I hope not.
President Hinckley stated that this is a RIGHTEOUS cause, it is a part of the War on Terror and that anyone who tried to thwart or interfere with this cause would be held accountable for it.
This is the statement that the Prophet of God has made. Now, are you going to try to claim that President Hinckley was an immoral, blood thirsty, evil man who loved to kill innocent people? I hope not.
BeenThere Really? | 11:40 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I am sypathetic to those who have acted in a financially responsible way and
gotten burned. This has happened to me and many others. This is part of life and
has always happened and will continue to happen in the future.
I am really struggling with your suggestion that only the leaders of the LDS church can provide guidance on how to get out of debt. It seems like craziness to me.
There are plenty of resources available online and through other means to help people develop a plan to get out of debt.
Where did you get the idea that the only message from everyone but the LDS leaders is that bankruptcy is the answer? How much research did you do on this subject before making your conclusions?
My recollection is that the LDS leaders also suggested that followers learn to think and research and use all available resources to deal with the challenges of life. Why is this suggestion ignored?
Too many conclusions without thinking or research in these parts.
I am really struggling with your suggestion that only the leaders of the LDS church can provide guidance on how to get out of debt. It seems like craziness to me.
There are plenty of resources available online and through other means to help people develop a plan to get out of debt.
Where did you get the idea that the only message from everyone but the LDS leaders is that bankruptcy is the answer? How much research did you do on this subject before making your conclusions?
My recollection is that the LDS leaders also suggested that followers learn to think and research and use all available resources to deal with the challenges of life. Why is this suggestion ignored?
Too many conclusions without thinking or research in these parts.
Doug S | 11:55 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Cats: To my knowledge, Pres. Hinckley never said any such thing. The closest
he came was saying that people should do their civic duties, according to the
mandates of the government of the land in which they live.
"Just a question": Don't know about City Creek, but the church doesn't dedicate meetinghouses or temples until they are completely paid off. Given that these temples will likely be dedicated almost immediately after completion, I doubt the church is getting into a boatload of debt over them.
"Just a question": Don't know about City Creek, but the church doesn't dedicate meetinghouses or temples until they are completely paid off. Given that these temples will likely be dedicated almost immediately after completion, I doubt the church is getting into a boatload of debt over them.
Cats | 12:06 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
To Denny G: NOT ONE CENT OF THE FUNDS BEING USED TO BUILD THE MALL HAS COME
FROM TITHING FUNDS. Please check your facts before you make such inaccurate
statements.
To Just a Question: Yes, the Church follows it's own counsel, carries NO debt and pays for everything with CASH. Early in our history the Church did get in some debt when in extremely distressed circumstances. They got out of debt ASAP and have never carried any debt since that time.
Debt is bondage and those who use it to finance unnecessary luxuries soon learn the folly of it.
To Just a Question: Yes, the Church follows it's own counsel, carries NO debt and pays for everything with CASH. Early in our history the Church did get in some debt when in extremely distressed circumstances. They got out of debt ASAP and have never carried any debt since that time.
Debt is bondage and those who use it to finance unnecessary luxuries soon learn the folly of it.
Cats | 12:26 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
To Doug S: Yes, President Hinckley made this statement from the pulpit at
General Conference the day the Iraq War began.
The brethren received word that the war had just begun and President Hinckley got up, announced that they had just received word and made that statement. President Hinckley, within the statement, made it clear that this was his opinion. He did not make this statement as an official position of the Church. But, he did make the statement. It was NOT vague or cryptic in any way. It was very clear what his position was.
The brethren received word that the war had just begun and President Hinckley got up, announced that they had just received word and made that statement. President Hinckley, within the statement, made it clear that this was his opinion. He did not make this statement as an official position of the Church. But, he did make the statement. It was NOT vague or cryptic in any way. It was very clear what his position was.
What I think | 12:29 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Is this.... any "good" latter-day ain't that makes sure an
active, good LDS man loses his good 62K a year job in order to cover his own
300,000K a year job will be held accountable in my mind...
It is tragic that some LDS will put others through such a sorrowing time. I know my friend will be okay because he has paid and honest tithe all his life and has paid fast offering equal to half of some people's house payments... (and continues to do so even though it is now coming out of savings and his wife's small income)... He has served all around him in numerous ways. He has served in Bishoprics and High Councils, YM etc. His wife has served youth and adults alike in all capacities. They are good and honest people whom the Lord will bless.
It is sad in my mind that fellow LDS would treat someone of their own faith so badly... more tragic for the perpetrator than the faithful...
My friends prefer to live by the words of Job when he said, "until I die, I will not remove mine integrity from me" They will love the Lord and follow Him
It is tragic that some LDS will put others through such a sorrowing time. I know my friend will be okay because he has paid and honest tithe all his life and has paid fast offering equal to half of some people's house payments... (and continues to do so even though it is now coming out of savings and his wife's small income)... He has served all around him in numerous ways. He has served in Bishoprics and High Councils, YM etc. His wife has served youth and adults alike in all capacities. They are good and honest people whom the Lord will bless.
It is sad in my mind that fellow LDS would treat someone of their own faith so badly... more tragic for the perpetrator than the faithful...
My friends prefer to live by the words of Job when he said, "until I die, I will not remove mine integrity from me" They will love the Lord and follow Him
Escuse me Doug | 12:33 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
President Hinckley stood in General Conference and said that if we do not fight
evil, we are supporting it and would thus be held accountable for it.
Rebecca | 12:39 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Blue Cougar hints that it is Republican party who has no compassion but Dems.
do. Really? It was Dems. and Republicans who have voted to off shore US jobs
and use H-1B visas to import aliens to steal American professional jobs.
Greenspan was appointed by both Republican AND Democratic presidents. NAFTA was
signed into law by Clinton but Senator Orrin Hatch supported it in 1993 KNOWING
that 79% of Utahans were against it. Ain't a political party line crisis --
it is a crisis in character, ethics, and support of the US Constitution by
elected politicians. Solution is NOT to blame either party for the imploding US
and global economies -- THE SOLUTION is to take care of yourself as best you can
(debt free, savings, food storage) and then try to turn and help your neighbor
(classmate, friends, etc). THERE will be NO government bailout from Congress
as they created this mess. VOTE this election season -- churn over the
politicians at federal/local levels. DEMAND honest government! Demand a
balanced budget! Don't look to others to dole out compassion -- begin with
yourself as you work in your community. These days college debt might be
bad...stay clear of debt.
Prophet Missed Prophesying | 12:43 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Curious as to why the Prophet only generalizes with their counsel, instead of
telling their people basics financial habits that Suze Orman, Dr. Phil and the
Catholic Pope have taught and continues to teach.
Why didn't Hinckley or Monson, or any of the seers, revelators, etc, did not say that, in 2008, great financial calamity will hit that will reverberate throughtout the world.
The way it's obvious is that, the leaders of the church is just men, with only the powers and intelligence of any other men, and they have no special insight into the future financial or otherwise.
Suze Orman are far better at counseling people about finances then the church ever could, and she is not even LDS. The LDS would's spit her out due to her gay lifestyle, but she has advised people years ago of what's going to happen that's happening right now.
So, once more, the Prophets have failed again. As they always have.
Now, Prophesy exactly as to when will the housing market bounce back, so that people can prepare to buy to have a home again to shelter their family.
Can't do it, can you, Mr. Prophet?
Why didn't Hinckley or Monson, or any of the seers, revelators, etc, did not say that, in 2008, great financial calamity will hit that will reverberate throughtout the world.
The way it's obvious is that, the leaders of the church is just men, with only the powers and intelligence of any other men, and they have no special insight into the future financial or otherwise.
Suze Orman are far better at counseling people about finances then the church ever could, and she is not even LDS. The LDS would's spit her out due to her gay lifestyle, but she has advised people years ago of what's going to happen that's happening right now.
So, once more, the Prophets have failed again. As they always have.
Now, Prophesy exactly as to when will the housing market bounce back, so that people can prepare to buy to have a home again to shelter their family.
Can't do it, can you, Mr. Prophet?
DennyG | 12:44 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
RE: Cats
Where is it you think the Church can come up with that kind of money without selling off their real property. My best friend works in that very department and they have not sold a thing. Of course tithing funds are being used. Think clearly about this one. Where else would cash come from?
Believing everything you're told can be very misleading at times.
Where is it you think the Church can come up with that kind of money without selling off their real property. My best friend works in that very department and they have not sold a thing. Of course tithing funds are being used. Think clearly about this one. Where else would cash come from?
Believing everything you're told can be very misleading at times.
Mark | 1:00 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Cats,
Hinckley didn't speak during conference at the commencement of the hostilities in Iraq, it was the beginning of the attack on Afghanistan that you are remembering.
Hinckley didn't speak during conference at the commencement of the hostilities in Iraq, it was the beginning of the attack on Afghanistan that you are remembering.
Rebecca | 1:03 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
To former Relief Society president who complained that the LDS Leadership should
spell out how to become debt free. It was my understanding the LDS Leaders are
supposed to teach PRINCIPLES and not hand hold everyone. The LDS Leaders have
advised folks to learn and study for themselves correct principles.
But if you need assistance -- it is pretty basic:
1) cut out all unnecessary expenses (movies, pay TV, cell phones, no car if public transportation is available, no eating out, no vacations)
2) have a job (hopefully the rotten economy will allow you to keep your job -- politicians have been destroying jobs for 20 years; take on a second job and third job if necessary-- assuming one can get them)
3) Be grateful that you have work
4) save some of the job's income;
5) pay down debt
6) buy extra food for hard times that will surely come;
7) have a home piggy bank to save money;
8) have a savings account in a safe bank -- for larger sums.
9) don't look for a government handout to the public nor 'compassion from politicians' -- gov. handouts come from your fellow taxpayers
It is that simple.
But if you need assistance -- it is pretty basic:
1) cut out all unnecessary expenses (movies, pay TV, cell phones, no car if public transportation is available, no eating out, no vacations)
2) have a job (hopefully the rotten economy will allow you to keep your job -- politicians have been destroying jobs for 20 years; take on a second job and third job if necessary-- assuming one can get them)
3) Be grateful that you have work
4) save some of the job's income;
5) pay down debt
6) buy extra food for hard times that will surely come;
7) have a home piggy bank to save money;
8) have a savings account in a safe bank -- for larger sums.
9) don't look for a government handout to the public nor 'compassion from politicians' -- gov. handouts come from your fellow taxpayers
It is that simple.
Anonymous | 1:16 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
You know, many finance guru's like Suze Orman gave the same advise more or
less. Yet look at how many people still went into debt. Did these people fail
them? Hardly. People just didn't believe that we'd be in such
trouble.
Don't blame others for your mistakes. Learn from them and do your best to fix it.
Don't blame others for your mistakes. Learn from them and do your best to fix it.
Yes live prudently | 1:26 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Live prudently, even though the USA has vastly more wealth per person than sine
1980, due to increases in productivity, this wealth has gone to the upper class,
the middle or lower classes have not shared in the wealth.
Therefore I repeat, live prudently or you may not make it.
Therefore I repeat, live prudently or you may not make it.
Josh D. | 1:33 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Quoting PMP:
"Now, Prophesy exactly as to when will the housing market bounce back, so that people can prepare to buy to have a home again to shelter their family."
So we can only prepare to have a home again if the prophet tells us when the housing market will bounce back? Perhaps instead we can live principles that the prophets have taught over hundreds or years and be blessed. Indeed, if we are prepared we shall not fear.
Rebecca brought up some wonderful points - thank you for those! Additionally, the church has an entire website (Provident Living) dedicated to specific actions that can be taken to find financial peace as well as additional counsel. Many resources are out there if we seek them. God has not left us alone.
"Now, Prophesy exactly as to when will the housing market bounce back, so that people can prepare to buy to have a home again to shelter their family."
So we can only prepare to have a home again if the prophet tells us when the housing market will bounce back? Perhaps instead we can live principles that the prophets have taught over hundreds or years and be blessed. Indeed, if we are prepared we shall not fear.
Rebecca brought up some wonderful points - thank you for those! Additionally, the church has an entire website (Provident Living) dedicated to specific actions that can be taken to find financial peace as well as additional counsel. Many resources are out there if we seek them. God has not left us alone.
re: Prophet Missed Prophesying | 1:36 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Perhaps your title should be: "Listener missed Listening". President
Hinckley said, among many other things: "Buy a modest home and pay off the
mortgage". Isn't this exactly (and specifically) what the financial
crisis has been caused by? Like people buying too large of homes, and listening
to "Financial Consultants" who said to keep the mortgage high and
invest the principal in the stock market. The prophets have been prophesying
about about tough times for years, but instead of preaching doom and gloom they
have taught us to take action and prepare for it. They have taught us over and
over again what we should be doing to be able to face, and survive, the
problems. Like growing a garden, getting food storage, clothing, fuel, and cash
saved up to get over national or individual problems.
Elizabeth | 1:36 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Rebecca, many of your "suugestions" are not possible when you just
don't have the money, "nuff said.
wrz | 1:45 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Prophet Missed Prophesying | 12:43 p.m.:
"Curious as to why the Prophet only generalizes with their counsel, instead of telling their people basics financial habits that Suze Orman, Dr. Phil and the Catholic Pope have taught and continues to teach."
They teach good principles (like get outta debt and stay that way) so that the people can govern themselves.
"Why didn't Hinckley or Monson, or any of the seers, revelators, etc, did not say that, in 2008, great financial calamity will hit that will reverberate throughtout the world."
What financial calamity? This is a normal business cycle.
"Now, Prophesy exactly as to when will the housing market bounce back..."
That's easy. As soon as the government stops requiring banks to enter into sub-prime and ARM mortgages.
"Curious as to why the Prophet only generalizes with their counsel, instead of telling their people basics financial habits that Suze Orman, Dr. Phil and the Catholic Pope have taught and continues to teach."
They teach good principles (like get outta debt and stay that way) so that the people can govern themselves.
"Why didn't Hinckley or Monson, or any of the seers, revelators, etc, did not say that, in 2008, great financial calamity will hit that will reverberate throughtout the world."
What financial calamity? This is a normal business cycle.
"Now, Prophesy exactly as to when will the housing market bounce back..."
That's easy. As soon as the government stops requiring banks to enter into sub-prime and ARM mortgages.
grapple | 2:13 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Why would you go out of your way to mock such things. Do you actually think it
would be an appropriate thing to do in a reverent setting to start giving out
specific little things while a single statement as "live prudently"
covers all these things? Oh and your hero Suze Orman...hows her portfolio doing
the last couple of years? lol
Elizabeth it is possible | 2:14 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Not possible? Hogwash. Just do not spend all the money you receive. Make
adjustments to lifestyle to make it happen. Explore all available resources to
figure out a way to make it happen. Prepare for the worst at all times. Do not
assume that anyone will do it for you. This process can take time, even years.
There simply is no instant fix and we need time to learn things along the way to
know how to keep money once we have it.
We are not owed a certain lifestyle.
This may not lead to a life of luxury but it will lead to a life of as much self reliance as is possible.
We are not owed a certain lifestyle.
This may not lead to a life of luxury but it will lead to a life of as much self reliance as is possible.
Orman no financial guru | 2:24 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Those who think Suze Orman is a financial guru are financially ignorant. I think
Suze serves a valuable role in encouraging people to think about their finances
while they try to put their head in the sand and live the high life on debt.
This is a valuble public service and I commend her for that.
The problem is she regularly provides incorrect information. They may be too busy writing her next book of the 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 who knows maybe 11 or 12 ways to manage their money to actually be on top of retirement account rules, etc. All I am saying is that everyone should do their own research after hearing Suze speak. She gets it wrong frequently.
The problem is she regularly provides incorrect information. They may be too busy writing her next book of the 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 who knows maybe 11 or 12 ways to manage their money to actually be on top of retirement account rules, etc. All I am saying is that everyone should do their own research after hearing Suze speak. She gets it wrong frequently.
Viper! | 3:37 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
To those who criticise the prophesy of the prophets are fools!!the prophets
speak collectively to the church..as the scriptures has taught us it is not meet
that we should be commanded in all things, we are agent unto ourselves to choose
what is right for you, rather than to be acted upon..and if you are unsure than
ask God,and if not,you will have a stupor of thought etc..the problem we have in
the world today is that there is too many doctor Phils, telling people the
solution instead of people takes time out, to think for themselves utilising the
very power within themselves to seek out answers thats relevant to you.
OC Surfer | 3:41 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Re Prophet Missed Prophesying who said "Why didn't Hinckley or Monson,
or any of the seers, revelators, etc, did not say that, in 2008, great financial
calamity will hit that will reverberate throughtout the world."
Did not Pres Monson back in 2006 in conference said to avoid excessive debt including home equity loans and that the "day of reckoning" will come shortly??
Did not Pres Monson back in 2006 in conference said to avoid excessive debt including home equity loans and that the "day of reckoning" will come shortly??
Nephi resident | 4:20 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I am so grateful for the prophets' counsel through the years... Without
it, I believe so many of us who are struggling now would be in far worse shape.
Having been without gainful employment for nearly a year has brought increased
gratitude for having followed their counsel in the past of eliminating credit
card debt. Financial situations can change in a heartbeat! As a bishop, I
counseled members with apparently very comfortable situations to plan for their
futures. I remember one in particular looking at me with a somewhat confused
response. I hope that we all listen to our local leaders as well as good and
wise learned men that warn against frivolous spending. I am especially pleased
with the responses of those who warn against judging! We see lives change in an
instant and those who judge may find themselves on the other side being judged!
The two great commandments to love God and our fellow beings are utmost
important. I remember that Christ, who was and is the most capable of judging
seems to me to be the last to judge... handing out mercy to whomever would come
to Him. Thank God for living prophets!
Anonymous | 5:25 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
It's just amazing how people can waste time in thinking the w of why when
all we need to do is to get ready for the storm is coming by getting ready
spiritually and financialy.
AriZION | 5:45 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
That guy who said that the Prophet missed prophesying reminds me of the lady who
was told by her mechanic that she needed a new engine. He asked her if she saw
the oil light on. She said that she did, but thought that if it got REALLY bad,
the light would flash, or there would be a horn or a buzzer or womething.
Nope. Sometimes you just get an oil light.
Nope. Sometimes you just get an oil light.
Falling Asleep | 6:08 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Does anyone know why LDS GAs talk in such a monotone pedantic style? I mean
anthropologically speaking, where does this speaking style come from.
Generalities Prophecies | 6:40 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
As I study the scriptures and pondered upon them, I've noticed a major
shift and difference between the old prophets, and the new "prophets".
The old prophets, as they prophesy, they're very specific, very clear and very pointed as to what will happen, and what will be the results.
The so called, new "prophets", are very general, very non-specific, and very unmatter of fact.
Hence, this financial debacle this country is now in, it can be taken as something that has been prophesied, simply because statements such as being frugal, living within your means, and day of reckoning will come.
I'm curious, as to who in this world who lived beyond their means has their day of reckoning come upon them? Is it only this year and in this country the day of reckoning has come?
For those who has lived beyond their means, their day of reckoning has come and is coming, therefore, bankruptcies have continued to rise.
In short, generalities are the tools for every Christian Ministers, and TV evangelists out there, who take credits for making prophecies as imprecise as can be, and when one of them comes true, they get credited for their visions.
The old prophets, as they prophesy, they're very specific, very clear and very pointed as to what will happen, and what will be the results.
The so called, new "prophets", are very general, very non-specific, and very unmatter of fact.
Hence, this financial debacle this country is now in, it can be taken as something that has been prophesied, simply because statements such as being frugal, living within your means, and day of reckoning will come.
I'm curious, as to who in this world who lived beyond their means has their day of reckoning come upon them? Is it only this year and in this country the day of reckoning has come?
For those who has lived beyond their means, their day of reckoning has come and is coming, therefore, bankruptcies have continued to rise.
In short, generalities are the tools for every Christian Ministers, and TV evangelists out there, who take credits for making prophecies as imprecise as can be, and when one of them comes true, they get credited for their visions.
Not new, just not followed | 7:23 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I got married in the 80's and went to conference where we were counselled
to get out of debt as quick as possible. My wife and I decided to heed this
counsel and after 10 years of sacrifice, got out of debt.
Later, we wanted a bigger home and were about to go into debt. I went to priesthood session and President Hinkley said, Avoid unnecessary debt. So we didn't upgrade our home and continued to drive older cars. Instead, we saved the money we would have used to service the debt.
6 months ago, I lost my job. This has been painful, but not nearly as painful as it would have been if we hadn't followed the prophet.
For those complaining about the prophet, all I can say is that we followed him and have been blessed. Don't judge the prophet on how people obey, judge on his works and words.
7 years ago I taught my home teaching family the same principles I used to get out of debt and last month they made the last payment on their home. Gospel principles work.
For those being critical, I ask, are you out of debt?
Later, we wanted a bigger home and were about to go into debt. I went to priesthood session and President Hinkley said, Avoid unnecessary debt. So we didn't upgrade our home and continued to drive older cars. Instead, we saved the money we would have used to service the debt.
6 months ago, I lost my job. This has been painful, but not nearly as painful as it would have been if we hadn't followed the prophet.
For those complaining about the prophet, all I can say is that we followed him and have been blessed. Don't judge the prophet on how people obey, judge on his works and words.
7 years ago I taught my home teaching family the same principles I used to get out of debt and last month they made the last payment on their home. Gospel principles work.
For those being critical, I ask, are you out of debt?
David P. | 7:50 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
This was another Great Conference.
President Monson and all the others gave good advice
and good addresses focusing on the "Spiritual" things
of life.
May we all benefit form the experience of listening and participation.
Videos(DVDs) will be available soon on the addresses. The Church magazines will also have the addresses in "printed form" soon.
God Bless.
Thankful for a Prophet (and others) to guide us
in these Latter-days.
President Monson and all the others gave good advice
and good addresses focusing on the "Spiritual" things
of life.
May we all benefit form the experience of listening and participation.
Videos(DVDs) will be available soon on the addresses. The Church magazines will also have the addresses in "printed form" soon.
God Bless.
Thankful for a Prophet (and others) to guide us
in these Latter-days.
recall | 7:58 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
The LDS Church has always counseled not to get into debt except for home
ownership and education.
President Hinckley, just before the Savings & Loan crash, to only bank where there was FDIC insurance for your bank account. This I clearly recall.
He also reminded us of the vision interpreted by Daniel about the seven lean and seven well-favored kine (seven years of plenty followed by seven of poverty). He used it to remind us that times of plenty never last, so to prepare for the worst.
Thomas S. Monson has always taught providential living and the LDS Church even has a providential living section on its website.
Also all the presidents of the Church have taught plainly and strongly against war except in self defence, but that when men are drafted they should answer the call; if a government embarks on an unrighteous war they will have to answer for it in the Day of Judgment.
President Hinckley, just before the Savings & Loan crash, to only bank where there was FDIC insurance for your bank account. This I clearly recall.
He also reminded us of the vision interpreted by Daniel about the seven lean and seven well-favored kine (seven years of plenty followed by seven of poverty). He used it to remind us that times of plenty never last, so to prepare for the worst.
Thomas S. Monson has always taught providential living and the LDS Church even has a providential living section on its website.
Also all the presidents of the Church have taught plainly and strongly against war except in self defence, but that when men are drafted they should answer the call; if a government embarks on an unrighteous war they will have to answer for it in the Day of Judgment.
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