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Live prudently, LDS reminded
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I hope that some day soon the Brethren's messages will evolve just like they've evolved for teen pregnancies and family violence and other social ills.
Give the members tangible counsel not just to avoid debt, but how to remain faithful once you've gotten in way over your heads. Teach us how to bear up during the many years of "50% tribute" and "bondage", because it truly takes years to get out.
During those years, with credit cards cancelled and spending reigned in, life happens. Car repairs, household repairs, medical bills, funeral expenses, job losses. I hope they will guide the members through THOSE trials.
The World doesn't offer any training for that crushing burden, other than bankruptcy. We need the message urgently.
* "Pay the debt...Release thyself from bondage." (D&C 19:35)
Again, please do not judge other's if you don't know their circumstances. Just be kind, be supportive and love each other, while we all try to work to adhere to the counsel of the prophets.
With the exception of mortgage, we'll be debt free in six months for the first time in 30 years.
The brethren want us to be self-reliant. We are to stay out of unnecesary debt, live prudently and NOT go to the government for financial help. If we need help we are to go, first to our families and then to the Church for assistance--NOT THE GOVERNMENT. THE BRETHREN HAVE EVEN ISSUED OFFICIAL LETTERS TO THAT EFFECT!
I once knew a guy who had a huge income, but lived VERY imprudently and carried a lot of debt. I told him he needed to get out of debt and get some cash reserve (I was a licensed financial advisor at the time). Then President Hinckley issued an anti-debt statement from the pulpit at General Priesthood Meeting. This guy's response--"that's nothing new, they've been saying that for a long time." He went on living very imprudently.
Well, I have since found out that this man has lost EVERYTHING. His million dollar house, his expensive cars--EVERYTHING due to debt and imprudence.
We need to follow the words of LIVING PROPHETS. GET OUT OF DEBT!!!
Just sayin'
And I'm one who can say this. I'm out of debt: no house payment, no car payment, no ex-wife payment. I raised 8 kids and 2 wives and forked out $100K in divorces, sent 4 sons on missions, and still managed to pay off the house in 16 yrs, and retire at age 57. And that was in a lowely job as a school teacher in Utah. And to top it off I'm a 'Jack' Mormon! So if you really believe in the prophets words etc. why don't you live it? I believe it was Pres Benson who said "Avoid debt like the plague." Well, the plague is here, reap your consequences.
Still there are many situations which arise that are impossible to plan for. However, when we follow the prophet's counsel we're still in a better place than if we hadn't.
After all is said and done, we need each other in times of crisis and my attitude is not one of "they made their beds so they now can lie in it." Without judgment we need to help each other, no matter what.
President Hinckley stated that this is a RIGHTEOUS cause, it is a part of the War on Terror and that anyone who tried to thwart or interfere with this cause would be held accountable for it.
This is the statement that the Prophet of God has made. Now, are you going to try to claim that President Hinckley was an immoral, blood thirsty, evil man who loved to kill innocent people? I hope not.
I am really struggling with your suggestion that only the leaders of the LDS church can provide guidance on how to get out of debt. It seems like craziness to me.
There are plenty of resources available online and through other means to help people develop a plan to get out of debt.
Where did you get the idea that the only message from everyone but the LDS leaders is that bankruptcy is the answer? How much research did you do on this subject before making your conclusions?
My recollection is that the LDS leaders also suggested that followers learn to think and research and use all available resources to deal with the challenges of life. Why is this suggestion ignored?
Too many conclusions without thinking or research in these parts.
"Just a question": Don't know about City Creek, but the church doesn't dedicate meetinghouses or temples until they are completely paid off. Given that these temples will likely be dedicated almost immediately after completion, I doubt the church is getting into a boatload of debt over them.
To Just a Question: Yes, the Church follows it's own counsel, carries NO debt and pays for everything with CASH. Early in our history the Church did get in some debt when in extremely distressed circumstances. They got out of debt ASAP and have never carried any debt since that time.
Debt is bondage and those who use it to finance unnecessary luxuries soon learn the folly of it.
The brethren received word that the war had just begun and President Hinckley got up, announced that they had just received word and made that statement. President Hinckley, within the statement, made it clear that this was his opinion. He did not make this statement as an official position of the Church. But, he did make the statement. It was NOT vague or cryptic in any way. It was very clear what his position was.
It is tragic that some LDS will put others through such a sorrowing time. I know my friend will be okay because he has paid and honest tithe all his life and has paid fast offering equal to half of some people's house payments... (and continues to do so even though it is now coming out of savings and his wife's small income)... He has served all around him in numerous ways. He has served in Bishoprics and High Councils, YM etc. His wife has served youth and adults alike in all capacities. They are good and honest people whom the Lord will bless.
It is sad in my mind that fellow LDS would treat someone of their own faith so badly... more tragic for the perpetrator than the faithful...
My friends prefer to live by the words of Job when he said, "until I die, I will not remove mine integrity from me" They will love the Lord and follow Him
Why didn't Hinckley or Monson, or any of the seers, revelators, etc, did not say that, in 2008, great financial calamity will hit that will reverberate throughtout the world.
The way it's obvious is that, the leaders of the church is just men, with only the powers and intelligence of any other men, and they have no special insight into the future financial or otherwise.
Suze Orman are far better at counseling people about finances then the church ever could, and she is not even LDS. The LDS would's spit her out due to her gay lifestyle, but she has advised people years ago of what's going to happen that's happening right now.
So, once more, the Prophets have failed again. As they always have.
Now, Prophesy exactly as to when will the housing market bounce back, so that people can prepare to buy to have a home again to shelter their family.
Can't do it, can you, Mr. Prophet?
Where is it you think the Church can come up with that kind of money without selling off their real property. My best friend works in that very department and they have not sold a thing. Of course tithing funds are being used. Think clearly about this one. Where else would cash come from?
Believing everything you're told can be very misleading at times.
Hinckley didn't speak during conference at the commencement of the hostilities in Iraq, it was the beginning of the attack on Afghanistan that you are remembering.
But if you need assistance -- it is pretty basic:
1) cut out all unnecessary expenses (movies, pay TV, cell phones, no car if public transportation is available, no eating out, no vacations)
2) have a job (hopefully the rotten economy will allow you to keep your job -- politicians have been destroying jobs for 20 years; take on a second job and third job if necessary-- assuming one can get them)
3) Be grateful that you have work
4) save some of the job's income;
5) pay down debt
6) buy extra food for hard times that will surely come;
7) have a home piggy bank to save money;
8) have a savings account in a safe bank -- for larger sums.
9) don't look for a government handout to the public nor 'compassion from politicians' -- gov. handouts come from your fellow taxpayers
It is that simple.
Don't blame others for your mistakes. Learn from them and do your best to fix it.
Therefore I repeat, live prudently or you may not make it.
"Now, Prophesy exactly as to when will the housing market bounce back, so that people can prepare to buy to have a home again to shelter their family."
So we can only prepare to have a home again if the prophet tells us when the housing market will bounce back? Perhaps instead we can live principles that the prophets have taught over hundreds or years and be blessed. Indeed, if we are prepared we shall not fear.
Rebecca brought up some wonderful points - thank you for those! Additionally, the church has an entire website (Provident Living) dedicated to specific actions that can be taken to find financial peace as well as additional counsel. Many resources are out there if we seek them. God has not left us alone.
"Curious as to why the Prophet only generalizes with their counsel, instead of telling their people basics financial habits that Suze Orman, Dr. Phil and the Catholic Pope have taught and continues to teach."
They teach good principles (like get outta debt and stay that way) so that the people can govern themselves.
"Why didn't Hinckley or Monson, or any of the seers, revelators, etc, did not say that, in 2008, great financial calamity will hit that will reverberate throughtout the world."
What financial calamity? This is a normal business cycle.
"Now, Prophesy exactly as to when will the housing market bounce back..."
That's easy. As soon as the government stops requiring banks to enter into sub-prime and ARM mortgages.
We are not owed a certain lifestyle.
This may not lead to a life of luxury but it will lead to a life of as much self reliance as is possible.
The problem is she regularly provides incorrect information. They may be too busy writing her next book of the 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 who knows maybe 11 or 12 ways to manage their money to actually be on top of retirement account rules, etc. All I am saying is that everyone should do their own research after hearing Suze speak. She gets it wrong frequently.
Did not Pres Monson back in 2006 in conference said to avoid excessive debt including home equity loans and that the "day of reckoning" will come shortly??
Nope. Sometimes you just get an oil light.
The old prophets, as they prophesy, they're very specific, very clear and very pointed as to what will happen, and what will be the results.
The so called, new "prophets", are very general, very non-specific, and very unmatter of fact.
Hence, this financial debacle this country is now in, it can be taken as something that has been prophesied, simply because statements such as being frugal, living within your means, and day of reckoning will come.
I'm curious, as to who in this world who lived beyond their means has their day of reckoning come upon them? Is it only this year and in this country the day of reckoning has come?
For those who has lived beyond their means, their day of reckoning has come and is coming, therefore, bankruptcies have continued to rise.
In short, generalities are the tools for every Christian Ministers, and TV evangelists out there, who take credits for making prophecies as imprecise as can be, and when one of them comes true, they get credited for their visions.
Later, we wanted a bigger home and were about to go into debt. I went to priesthood session and President Hinkley said, Avoid unnecessary debt. So we didn't upgrade our home and continued to drive older cars. Instead, we saved the money we would have used to service the debt.
6 months ago, I lost my job. This has been painful, but not nearly as painful as it would have been if we hadn't followed the prophet.
For those complaining about the prophet, all I can say is that we followed him and have been blessed. Don't judge the prophet on how people obey, judge on his works and words.
7 years ago I taught my home teaching family the same principles I used to get out of debt and last month they made the last payment on their home. Gospel principles work.
For those being critical, I ask, are you out of debt?
President Monson and all the others gave good advice
and good addresses focusing on the "Spiritual" things
of life.
May we all benefit form the experience of listening and participation.
Videos(DVDs) will be available soon on the addresses. The Church magazines will also have the addresses in "printed form" soon.
God Bless.
Thankful for a Prophet (and others) to guide us
in these Latter-days.
President Hinckley, just before the Savings & Loan crash, to only bank where there was FDIC insurance for your bank account. This I clearly recall.
He also reminded us of the vision interpreted by Daniel about the seven lean and seven well-favored kine (seven years of plenty followed by seven of poverty). He used it to remind us that times of plenty never last, so to prepare for the worst.
Thomas S. Monson has always taught providential living and the LDS Church even has a providential living section on its website.
Also all the presidents of the Church have taught plainly and strongly against war except in self defence, but that when men are drafted they should answer the call; if a government embarks on an unrighteous war they will have to answer for it in the Day of Judgment.
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