Deseret News | Reader comments: Legislative ethics probe begins on 2 lawmakers

Reader comments
Legislative ethics probe begins on 2 lawmakers

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Anonymous | 10:05 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Heads should roll..

Vouchers were and still are a joke funded by out of state money. They were trying to force it down our throats and luckily the people saw them for what they were worth.

Just goes to show the corruption in our legislature.

Seriously! | 10:12 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Draper now is your chance to vote him out. He is worthless. Don't you all remember the gas scandal. Greg Hughes sits on the advisory boards of private schools that would have benefited at our expense for vouchers. Talk about a conflict of interest.

Anonymous | 10:21 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008

"Usually people give you (campaign) money because you already vote like they like, not that they give you money to vote a certain way," he said."

Riiiiiight.

This is either a very naive position, or intentionally misleading.

Comments continue below

John Harrison | 10:33 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008

I don't know anything about these bribery allegations. What I will say is that I attempted to contact Greg Hughes, my representative, every single day of the 2008 legislative session via phone and several times via e-mail. He never responded. In contrast my senator, who you would think would be much busier, was incredibly responsive and showed real concern.

Greg Hughes needs to go simply because he shows no interest in the people he claims to represent.

Utah GOP | 11:10 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008

This is just like my expectations from the Utah GOP. They know better than us. It really ties into their 'i can' billboards from the state GOP.

They can do anything without accountability. Utahns continue to vote for a few bad GOP apples because they have an 'R' after their name. One should note that Buttars is still the GOP nominee in West Jordan/South Jordan and I simply ask, "Why?"

Anonymous | 11:13 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008

"Utah law allows legislative candidates to spend their campaign money on anything, even just give it to themselves. Indeed, last year one House member gave himself $6,000 from his campaign account to make up for wages he said he lost by serving in the Legislature"
If this is true, there can be no more blatant undermining of democracy than this. This is sick. Money is corrupting our political process and it must be stopped.

Integrity | 11:14 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008

As one who has spent much time watching the proceedings of our legislature ... it is obvious to many that bribery took place on the floor during the voucher vote. Most who have spent any time on the hill have known about it all along. We have heard similar stories from several "R"s who were initially against or were planning to vote against vouchers. Rs were targeted by Curtis and Hughes not the Ds. When it comes to believing either Rep. Hughes' or former Rep. Lawrence's side of this story ... again it is most apparent to anyone who knows them both that Lawrence has the integrity that Hughes woefully lacks.

Suzanne | 11:21 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Questions about ethics can only be solved by a non-partisan commission which can investigate legislators. Let's enact this legislation so there can be no question of who is bought and who is not.

Greg | 11:25 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Why can't we vote these clowns out of office?

Anonymous | 11:35 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008

legislature = corruption

vouchers = joke

One Party Rule | 11:36 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Rep. Sheryl Allen wrote that she discovered that a bribery offer such as this was in violation of Utah Code 76-8-103 and is a second degree felon. She then talked to Kirk Torgensen, Criminal Deputy Attorney General who indicated that such an offer was indeed a violation of the law. According to the letter, Rep. Susan Lawrence later did talk with Mr. Torgensen confirming the allegations and was informed that if she chose to file a complaint it would be investigated by the newly elected Republican Salt Lake District Attorney Lohra Miller. It was noted that proof would be difficult becuase the offer was verbal. She declined to persue the matter because of the politicla challenge of a newly elected Republican prosecutor pursing chargest against a Republican member of the the State House, according to Rep. Allen's letter. It is shameful for everyone in Utah. Because of the mere fact of Republicans investigating Republicans, Mark Shurtleff is tarnished, Lohra Miller is tarnished, Reps. Allen and Lawrence are tarnished, Rep. Hughes is tarnished, the Democrats who in the name of collegiality fail to pursue an ethics complaint are tarnished, PCE funders are tarnished.

Utahn for Ethics reform | 11:54 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008

It's time for Utahns to vote out any legislator who will not support an independent ethics commission and other ethics reforem. Especially limiting how campaigns are spent. If when you retire you can keep all your donations, how is a campaign donation any different than giving money to the personal bank account of a politician? Ask your candidate if they will support this reform and if they won't, know matter who they are, vote them out. This stuff plagues our democracy.

Let your voice be heard | 11:59 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008

While comment boards like this are nice to read, the most important voice any of us can have is when we vote in November. I plan to clean house!

Please Stop Electing Idiots | 12:15 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

We keep electing power-hungry idiots who do not represent Utahns. Why?

Not enough money offered | 12:26 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Mr. Harrison your mistake was not offering Mr. Hughes money...obviously that is how you get legislation in his eyes. He is crook and is a joke as a representative. He is bought by lobbyist and if you dont' play by his rules he has a temper tantrum. Ask Senator Hickman.

Duke | 12:26 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Hughes voted against any kind of ethics bill last session and is anti-public schools. The charter school he sits on the board of gets money siphoned from traditional public schools as a result of legislation he helped pass. He is also chairman of the House education committee when he only cares about his own kids' charter schools. His charter school is trying to buy land from Jordan School District "on the cheap" (as his buddy Troy Walker stated) so they can use public land to build their own charter high. He is unethical and uncompromising and is hurting YOUR kids who go to traditional public schools.

Mission Accomplished | 12:33 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Throw out the allegation right (2 1/2 year old conversation) before the election and make it virtually impossible to be investigated before the election. It is NO accident this came out when it did, it has done precisely what it was intended to do. Utah probably deserves to have the Dems control the State top to bottom and see how fast we remain 'best run State in the Country'.

Smart Voter | 12:33 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

When in doubt vote them out!

Timing is interesting | 12:37 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Regardless whether the allegations are true or not, the timing is obviously central to this complaint. Weeks before the election, a member of one party issues an ethics complaint against a member of another party about something that happened two years ago. I love the irony. Pot, meet kettle.

Cougar Blue | 12:39 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

And the current philosophy is that if one is a Republican, and most R's are members of the church, then everything must be OK. What a bunch of hooey! We think of ourselves as "above the fray". Well, guess what! How many of these incidences need to occur before the Brethren speak out on moral issues?

Reeeeesen is my budy | 12:45 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Phil leaks a letter just weeks before the election? Could this be about Greg ... from Sandy and not so much Greg...from Draper?

MadMax | 12:46 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

We may never know the truth here as it appears to be a case of 'she said, he said' and the party will protect their own at all costs. However, is anyone really surprised that such behavior goes on 'behind' closed doors in our one-party state? The lack of ethical conduct from those who represent us is appalling as this is just another incident in a series of similar patterns of conduct.

The question I have is, "Can Utah voters be so blind, so uneducated, so tied to the 'R' label to re-elect those who have ethical clouds hanging over their heads again and again?" It pains me to think that just because a candidate is a democrat that they are less acceptable to voters than a corrupt, insensitive, inflexible republican. So much for being open-minded and independent thinkers.

Don't tell me that the LDS Church supports only republicans as several members of the Quorum of the Twelve as well as others of the General Authorities have been democrats. There are some of your neighbors and ward members who are democrats. Anytime one party becomes too dominant; it is a bad thing. Balance is always a good thing.

Reason | 12:54 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Regardless of whether the accusations are true or false, this case smells rotten. It smells like a campaign dirty trick, deliberately not saying anything until a few weeks before the election, when it might have maximum impact to ï¿½punishï¿½ the pro-voucher legislators, and minimum opportunity to get to the truth. If this dishonest trick is allowed by the voters to succeed on election day, it will happen more frequently in the future, further undermining the integrity of our elections.

I'm tired | 1:09 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Every few months we hear about a new abuse of power scandle working it's way into the press and little is done to solve it.

I have my own solution.

I rarely vote Democrat. I won't vote for Obama but I will be voting Democrat in EVERY local race.

Anonymous | 1:26 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

the fact that political considerations (A republican investigating another republican) are even taken into a account is just shameful.

If its wrong, it's wrong and deserves to be investigated. The political party of the people involve shouldn't matter.

This is a shameful day for Utah.

John Harrison | 1:35 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Reason,

Yeah, isn't it sad when your ethical lapses catch up to you at the worst possible time? Perhaps the solution is to minimize your ethical lapses rather than complain when they're brought to light.

Get rid of both | 1:42 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

I watched Hughes on TV alst night and he has a slimey politician demeanor. Both Gregs should go. Hopefully the voters in the South part of the valley will tire of these two and Buttars and vote responsibly, since they harm the rest of us as well.

The beat goes on | 1:50 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

everybody is on the take ...LOBBY LOBBY LOBBY!!! Until that goes the temptation is always there,,always!!

Small Fish | 1:52 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Hughes is a small fish too. With the things I'm hearing, it's only a matter of time before bigger fish are involved in their own ethics complaints. Curt Bramble and maybe a few others in leadership are ticking time bombs. It's only a matter of time before Bramble in particular gets caught and investigated. We have the weakest ethics laws in the country and the weakest political opposition. That's an equation for corruption if I've ever heard one.

Surprisingly Enough... | 1:55 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

This came of no surprise to me. How sad that when I hear the worst about legislators, I believe it. Sadder still, is those legislators that are Republican will still be reelected. Ethics optional in the Utah State Legislature.

Ethics reform protect all | 2:12 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

For anyone who thinks these allegations are political, that's why you should join those who believe them to fight for an independent ethics comission and greater transparency in finance laws. Ethics laws protect the innocent just as much as they convict the guilty. I wonder if Hughes is rethinking he's opposition to these reforms now...nah, probably not because I know he is capable of something like this.

I'm tired is a democrat | 2:12 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Of course you will be voting democrat in EVERY local race - just as you have done many times before. How an intelligent person can say every Repulican is bad and every democrat is good (or the inverse)is beyond me.

Anonymous | 2:15 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

I watched the news report last night and the guy couldn't even look the reporter in the eye when making up answers to the questions.

Charter schools are failing all around my house.

How much longer must the insanity go on?

If this were true | 2:23 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Then it would have been brought out a long time ago. What this really is is campaign smear. I'm no Republican, but I certainly won't be voting for Democrats who pull dirty tricks like this. Is this the Obama formula for change?

Re: if this were true.... | 2:32 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Of course you are a Republican.

You are more concerned about the "timing" and the "manner" then you are the actual alleged impropriety.

Right?

You don't like how it came down, so don't even investigate, right?

It can't be... | 2:50 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

What? Corrupt politicians? No way! (sarcasm)

Vote the clowns out. Just say NO to clowns!!!

Reason | 3:09 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Re: ï¿½John Harrison 1:35ï¿½: We donï¿½t KNOW if the so-called ï¿½ethical lapsesï¿½ actually occurred ï¿½ thatï¿½s the point. If they did, then appropriate action should be taken. But there is not enough time before the election to determine the truth and get the issue settled in the minds of the voters. Therefore, even if the accusations are false, the intended damage will still have been done. The timing smacks not merely of negative campaigning, but of extremely dirty politics.

Re: ï¿½MadMax 12:46ï¿½: You complain that voters ï¿½re-elect those who have ethical clouds hanging over their heads.ï¿½ But if those clouds are put there by deliberately timed accusations shortly before an election, then voters should refuse to be influenced by such dirty tactics. If these accusations are true, the issue should have been raised and dealt with a long time ago, when the violations occurred.

Leave Riesen Alone! | 3:10 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

We voters wouldn't know anything about this without Phil Riesen.

CougarKeith | 3:19 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

I personally like Ron Pauls idea, give everyone who files a tax return "20 and older" $400,000 instead of the bail out, and watch how fast the economy improves!!!

I like the idea, pay off the mortgage, pay off the cars and credit cards, then our family would probably try to trade in the 99 Explorer on a new one IF we can get one before the dollar of today equals $.25 or $.10 in todays money. People would go nuts, they could get out of debt, and they would put money in the bank! Why should we let these executives keep robbing us with their salaries, and screwing up the economy, we can all do it ourselves and be happy about it! The banks will get "Cash Flow" again, and have plenty of money to lend out! I like his idea alot...

Only problem is within a few months a loaf of bread will cost $5.00, and a gallon of milk $7.00, and gas will be $8.00 a gallon because everyone got $400,000, then prices will balance out in a few years, or salaries and wages will have to go up to meet the need? Great Idea though!

Anonymous | 3:32 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

These filthy politicos dont even see these as ethics violations. Like any criminal, they are perfectly able to justify it in their minds.

Unaffiliated | 3:41 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

More so than ever before I am glad to be unaffiliated. This is another classic example of why to vote for the person and not the party affiliation beside the person's name. Do your homework. Then vote.

Re: re: If this were true... | 3:49 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

I agree with "If this were true." While Mr. 2:32 p.m. tries to imply the timing is impertinent, it IS pertinent. Of course it should be investigated, which is why Mr. Hughes himself signed the ethics complaint. But why the democrats have decided to bring forth this complaint 5 weeks before elections is fishy, especially if the incident occurred over 2 1/2 years ago. Why didn't Susan Lawrence come forth sooner? She hasn't been in the legislature for 2 years. I further fail to comprehend why Lawrence is suddenly bedfellows with the guy who beat her out of office, and a Democrat. Last I check she said she was a Republican; maybe not.

I fail to understand why the republicans in our state continue to be beat upon as if ALL republicans and ALL elected officials are corrupt and evil, especially when no one stops to realize that perhaps the media paints a very biased picture of those who serve w/ an R after their names. As a Democrat-turned Republican, I am tired of the Democrats and media asserting biases as if they are universal truth. And I'm tired of unethical democrats trying to sway elections.

Hardly | 4:01 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

I heard a south valley senator state the other day that vouchers were a "dead and done deal" and shouldn't affect votes whatsoever. Hardly.

RE: Re: if this were true.... | 4:06 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

>>Why didn't Susan Lawrence come forth sooner?

that was explained in the article

To those upset about the timing | 4:09 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

As someone who has worked a lot of campaigns, here's what those of you concerned about the timeing need to realize: Often times, people have information but they don't know what to do with it. Once you file for office, you become a natural source for all kinds of whistle blowers. Sure it would have been better to have come out a long time ago, but often times people just don't get the courage to do it or they don't know where to go until an election season comes. It's not that they're malicious. It's just that's when they figure out what to do about it. We need to focus on the issues and not get too worried about the timing because that's always when these things happen.

time | 4:10 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

it is time to turn all legislative members over...including our Utah State Senators...they have been there to long and are part of the USA problems...when do they come up for re-election?

Kearns resident | 4:11 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Thanks to Phil Riesen (if he did release it) for being brave enough to root out the corrupt Utah GOP politicians. Once again, citizens saved by a few bold Utah Democrats from the bungling Utah GOP. (i.e. Vouchers, Real Salt Lake Stadium, Sen. Buttars, former Mayor Workman and the others who think they are kings and with egos the size of Texas...all are R's. Aren't we all tired of this?

Vote for: Springmeyer, Spencer, and the few good D's that exist in Utah.

P.S. Anonymous 2:15 - Charter schools are not failing... There are two next to our home that are thriving and growing and have higher scores than our district schools.

RE: RE: RE: IF THIS IS TRUE | 4:17 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Are there really voters out there who believe that bribery is not a constant problem within the Utah legislature?? Any informed voter knows that legislative bribery is a problem that Utah has been dealing with for years. The repercussions that follow bribery reports may cause some to keep quiet, but, we all know that it goes on. I don't care if you are a Republican, Democrat, Unaffiliated, or Other ... we need to investigate unethical practices within the Utah House and Senate or live with the consequences. Who cares when the alleged bribery took place. Thank you to the members of BOTH parties who have brought to our attention.

John Harrison | 4:17 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Reason,

He's already admitted to the basic facts. Read the transcript of the KSL report. All that's left now is to quibble over the specifics. Clearly he was trying to buy votes for vouchers.

Truth in Politics | 4:24 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008

Talk about reaching, "Riesen also is accused of using outside attorneys to draft ethics documents, and not listing those in-kind contributions on his financial disclosure statements."

This ethics complaint has nothing to do with Rep. Riesen's campaign, but the good ole boys are so arrogant and thin skinned that they will do anything to punish and instill fear in those who oppose them.

What really happened in the garage the other day Rep. Hughes? Inquiring minds want to know?

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