Reader comments
15 schools in Utah face federal sanctions
43 comments | Read story
Tom | 1:25 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
The link does not seem to work. The .ut.us part of the url usually refers to a
state address, not the U.S. Office of Education.
Anonymous | 3:36 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Moral of the story...
Fail for a couple of years.
Get the grant money.
Bring your scores back up.
This is the only way to get proper funding for our schools?
Ridiculous.
Fail for a couple of years.
Get the grant money.
Bring your scores back up.
This is the only way to get proper funding for our schools?
Ridiculous.
CP | 6:09 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Personally I never have liked this No Child Left Behind. The requirements are
unfair and students do get left behind and just forgotten. It needs to seriously
be re-evaluated.
Comments continue below
NCLB is broken | 6:29 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Look at all of these schools. They all serve students in poverty, either rural
or urban, not suburban. In most cases, the student's parents have little
education and can provide little support at home. These students come to school
unprepared, they move every year or two and in many cases, sometimes multiple
times in the same school year. Many of these students do not speak English as
their first language or in their home. It does not take NCLB to realize these
students need help.
Rather than punitive measures and negative labels, these schools and students need help. They need extra resources, more one on one help and support services not needed in suburban schools. It is time to quit sanctioning these students, their teachers and their schools and start helping them. It is obvious from this article that the educators are willing to do what ever is needed, they just need the resources.
It is time to do way with the negative labels and punishments of NCLB once and for all.
Rather than punitive measures and negative labels, these schools and students need help. They need extra resources, more one on one help and support services not needed in suburban schools. It is time to quit sanctioning these students, their teachers and their schools and start helping them. It is obvious from this article that the educators are willing to do what ever is needed, they just need the resources.
It is time to do way with the negative labels and punishments of NCLB once and for all.
Anonymous | 6:59 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
NCLB should sit back and relax a bit, then think about how to improve - think,
not just work, it is good idea, so make it better.
Julie | 7:23 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Personally I like the No child left behind... It makes principals get off their
,,,, and actually start working..
Principals in Jordan and Granite Districts get paid 50 thousand more than the highest paid teacher whether their school performs well or not...
Principals in Jordan and Granite Districts get paid 50 thousand more than the highest paid teacher whether their school performs well or not...
Anonymous | 7:35 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
the address needs to have www. in front of it & no period after the us
Reggie | 7:40 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
As a student, I've always hated the NCLB law. It doesn't help the
students that are struggling, and makes it more difficult for particularly
bright students to succeed. By restricting the teachers and making them focus on
the unhelpful standardized tests, they aren't able to actually help either
group of students in the ways they need.
A Day Late | 7:48 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Come on Deseret News, this story is a day late. The other daily newspaper had
all this yesterday.
disillusioned | 7:50 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Most definitely AGREED with all of your comments made so far!!!! Yea for people
finally understanding that NCLB is discriminatory, based upon failing labels,
rather than funding for improvement without labels, and although accountability
is important---making improvements in school has far more to do with finding the
good, rather than sanctioning these schools!!!
What about accountability? | 8:27 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
I personally like NCLB. It may not be perfect, but it does mean schools
can't flounder on with no accountability.
My father was an elementary school teacher for 30 years. I remember his frustration with fellow teachers who slept in class and who didn't really put their full effort into making sure the kids learned the material. They would do the "status quo" and be ok with that. It was all dependent on the personal philosophy of the teacher if anything good was to come out of the class, not on whether or not they would be fired if they didn't do their job properly like most of the private job sector.
Life is tough. Sometimes we have to face the music. It usually isn't fun nor does it do our "self-esteem" any good. But it does force us to step it up. I'm tired of the ultra-sensitive crowd who doesn't think discipline, criticism, or accountability is good for us. Getting your feelings hurt is worse than anything else imaginable. My grandfather once said that failure is the best remedy for success. Often failure is the motivation we need to do better. He was a smart man.
My father was an elementary school teacher for 30 years. I remember his frustration with fellow teachers who slept in class and who didn't really put their full effort into making sure the kids learned the material. They would do the "status quo" and be ok with that. It was all dependent on the personal philosophy of the teacher if anything good was to come out of the class, not on whether or not they would be fired if they didn't do their job properly like most of the private job sector.
Life is tough. Sometimes we have to face the music. It usually isn't fun nor does it do our "self-esteem" any good. But it does force us to step it up. I'm tired of the ultra-sensitive crowd who doesn't think discipline, criticism, or accountability is good for us. Getting your feelings hurt is worse than anything else imaginable. My grandfather once said that failure is the best remedy for success. Often failure is the motivation we need to do better. He was a smart man.
Teachers sister | 9:08 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
If you were to talk to an Elem. Teacher, you would know that NCLB has put some
unreasonable strain that should not be there. If a child has a disability, say
something like Autism, NCLB does not differentiate it. A child goes into the
class at a 2nd grade level, when the rest of the class is at a 6th grade level.
Therefore, you start behind. There is no way this child can move up to the the
6th grade level because their brain doesn't work at that level adn will not
ever. Therefore, the class may not pass NCLB. It would be interesting to see
the statistics on these schools that did not pass, how many of these students
had disabilities. NCLB is a great idea in theory, but should be centered on
individual abilities rather then the group as a whole. There are always going
to be children with disabilities, and at some point, that should be factored in,
with a report on the improvement of these children individually rather then
their problems bringing the entire school down. They need to be encouraged, and
helped, not looked at as the reason they are failing NCLB.
Jason | 9:13 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
NCLB is useless without parental help. I just graduated last year and I can
tell you that the students who needed the most help, were the ones who were not
getting it at home. By the time high school comes around it is almost too late;
their habits are set, graduation is on the horizon, and there are more fun
things out there than improving grades. If NCLB is going to succeed it has to
be done early on, with the help of parents. Teachers can only do so much to
help a student, so in a sense it's not the school who is failing, it's
the parents.
Anonymous | 9:39 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Relax A Day Late...you spend your time following dates of publications?
does that make sense? | 9:56 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
It's interesting that the article states that these schools get extra
funding--apparently to improve education; but yet these schools then are
required to PAY for transportation to send the kids to a different school if the
parents so choose. How does that help to improve the situation?
Help | 10:16 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
I teach in a school that is close to being a failing school. We have a 96%
migrancy rate. That means that we start and end the school year with only 4% of
the same students. But we are required to test all of the students on their
grade level no matter where they are really performing. What about those
students who see 2-3 years of growth in a school year, but when they take the
test on their assigned grade level they will fail. We are setting up our kids
for failure even when they are making progress.
Changes needed | 10:47 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
There's no doubt that accountability for work done is needed in schools.
But that accountability has gone too far and is now pushing teachers to focus on
teaching the test material rather than teaching what the children are
lacking.
I taught at Midvale Elementary and let me tell you it was TOUGH! 86% turnover rate when I was there. I could immediately tell those children who had positive home support and consistency. I felt terrible for most of those kids, because I knew their chances at a good future were very slim.
The federal mandate to provide a free and fair education for all needs to be continued. We need to get resources where they need to be. But schools can only do so much for children. Without help from family and other near them these children will still fail most of the time. Agreed that we need big changes, but those changes need to start at home.
I hold a teaching certificate but have chosen a different career path, seeing that I can make a greater difference not in the classroom. I'm saddened by that, since I love to teach. Hopefully I can be an asset to society still.
I taught at Midvale Elementary and let me tell you it was TOUGH! 86% turnover rate when I was there. I could immediately tell those children who had positive home support and consistency. I felt terrible for most of those kids, because I knew their chances at a good future were very slim.
The federal mandate to provide a free and fair education for all needs to be continued. We need to get resources where they need to be. But schools can only do so much for children. Without help from family and other near them these children will still fail most of the time. Agreed that we need big changes, but those changes need to start at home.
I hold a teaching certificate but have chosen a different career path, seeing that I can make a greater difference not in the classroom. I'm saddened by that, since I love to teach. Hopefully I can be an asset to society still.
ramper | 10:52 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
I had taught at a private school in the Philadelphia area for twenty years. The
Philadelphia tri-state area (parts of PA, N.J. & Del.) have more private
schools than anywhere in the nation. The disparity between the educational level
of the private vs. public schools in some cases is staggering. Many of the
public schools are equal with the best private schools but too many are so far
behind it is scary. Consider two public schools less than ten miles apart:
Math scores above state average: 3% compared to 96%
Verbal scores above avgerage: 8% compared to 98%
The NCLB has done zero to improve the poor school.
The economic level of the two school districts is just as revealing. It is so bad that the state was considering closing the poor performing school and dispersing the students throughout the county.
The post by 'Help' at 10:16 was a perfect example of how shallow and off track the NCLB concept is.
Math scores above state average: 3% compared to 96%
Verbal scores above avgerage: 8% compared to 98%
The NCLB has done zero to improve the poor school.
The economic level of the two school districts is just as revealing. It is so bad that the state was considering closing the poor performing school and dispersing the students throughout the county.
The post by 'Help' at 10:16 was a perfect example of how shallow and off track the NCLB concept is.
Anti-PC Infidel | 10:55 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Any of the failing schools private schools? No? Didn't think so.
Tuppence | 11:08 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Why are no Park City schools on the report card?
Anonymous | 11:24 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Someone on this list inquired why a 'failing' school is rewarded with
a cash infusion.
Well... welcome to the world of Bushanguage.
You know, that weird mixing of Orwellian double-speak and saying something other than what was meant, like Bush's last week using of the word 'persecute' instead of the accurate word 'prosecute.'
In other words, 'No Child Left Behind' is a perfect example of convoluted Bushanguage.
Well... welcome to the world of Bushanguage.
You know, that weird mixing of Orwellian double-speak and saying something other than what was meant, like Bush's last week using of the word 'persecute' instead of the accurate word 'prosecute.'
In other words, 'No Child Left Behind' is a perfect example of convoluted Bushanguage.
dave4197 | 11:39 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Good quality education is important, everyone agrees. But when a school is
failing, like tests show the Midvale school is, and the principal doesn't
agree, I have a big problem with his perception, and consequentally with his
ability to do his job.
When I got a bad grade is school, I worked smarter to get a good grade the next time. Momentary denials, yes, gripes, yes, but nobody gave me any pity, so I buckled down and worked. And pulled up my bad grade. More than once.
NCLB works most places, if you try to make it work. Denial gets you still stuck in last.
When I got a bad grade is school, I worked smarter to get a good grade the next time. Momentary denials, yes, gripes, yes, but nobody gave me any pity, so I buckled down and worked. And pulled up my bad grade. More than once.
NCLB works most places, if you try to make it work. Denial gets you still stuck in last.
how to fix this? | 11:39 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
The best way to fix this problem? Give all parents the opportunity to send
their child to any school at any time. Teachers and administrators will start
to shape up.
K | 12:17 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008
I like that there is a standard measurement of kids success through testing.
I know that almost all teachers hate no child. I know they are very vocal in how they hate doing the prep for the tests. I'm sure the kids know that this is the majority opinion of educators by the time they enter high school.
The way kids get into college is in a large part due to how they perform on a standardized test. Other things can help boost them being accepted into their school of choice. The first thing looked at is test scores.
In the world of work there are performance evaluations to judge how well a person is doing and what they can do to improve.
If you don't like the tests and you don't get paid enough and it's too stressful, please find another field.
I know that almost all teachers hate no child. I know they are very vocal in how they hate doing the prep for the tests. I'm sure the kids know that this is the majority opinion of educators by the time they enter high school.
The way kids get into college is in a large part due to how they perform on a standardized test. Other things can help boost them being accepted into their school of choice. The first thing looked at is test scores.
In the world of work there are performance evaluations to judge how well a person is doing and what they can do to improve.
If you don't like the tests and you don't get paid enough and it's too stressful, please find another field.
Carter | 12:31 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008
NCLB is a joke, its just another one of our dear presidents stupid ideas
NW Guy | 12:39 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Many parents also expect the schools to do everything and they don't get
involed. Teaching your children starts in the home! Try reading with your kids
more often and spend less time in front of the TV.
teacher | 12:44 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Parents have the right to take a child to whatever school they want now. we have
open enrollment! so again it's back in the parents lap.
As I have said before; Private schools can pick and choose -- if you don't fallow the rules they kick you out. Parents are paying tuition so they are invested and make sure the student is doing what they are suppose to. parent teacher conference last night I saw maybe 20 parents out of a possible 120. I have about 1/4 of my students have IEP's(learnig problems)I have to teach them all. Private schools limit enrollment = smaller classes. Give me those advantages and I could do just as well as private. But that take $. We felt it was more important to get a $20 rebate a couple of year ago instead of investing the millions of surplus money into education or save it for when we do not have enough---like now.
As I have said before; Private schools can pick and choose -- if you don't fallow the rules they kick you out. Parents are paying tuition so they are invested and make sure the student is doing what they are suppose to. parent teacher conference last night I saw maybe 20 parents out of a possible 120. I have about 1/4 of my students have IEP's(learnig problems)I have to teach them all. Private schools limit enrollment = smaller classes. Give me those advantages and I could do just as well as private. But that take $. We felt it was more important to get a $20 rebate a couple of year ago instead of investing the millions of surplus money into education or save it for when we do not have enough---like now.
Hey Carter! | 1:37 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Is your first name Jimmy? !!!!
Buckeye Ute | 4:02 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Dear Teachers Sister
I am a teacher in Ohio and any student that has a disability is put on an IEP (individual Education Plan). As a teacher I must provide differentiated instruction for these students, but they do not count towards my student progress, because they are not required to take the standardized tests. So they do not effect my overall rating as a teacher. The school and district are rated on how well they help these students achieve their ability.
Having said that NCLB is a good idea that has been carried out very poorly.
I am a teacher in Ohio and any student that has a disability is put on an IEP (individual Education Plan). As a teacher I must provide differentiated instruction for these students, but they do not count towards my student progress, because they are not required to take the standardized tests. So they do not effect my overall rating as a teacher. The school and district are rated on how well they help these students achieve their ability.
Having said that NCLB is a good idea that has been carried out very poorly.
Buckeye Ute | 4:09 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008
To Carter,
If you look into the dates that most of the federal legislation was passed most of the foundation for NCLB was passed in 2000, under the Clinton administration.
If you look into the dates that most of the federal legislation was passed most of the foundation for NCLB was passed in 2000, under the Clinton administration.
Follow the Data | 4:22 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Check the USOE site and look at comparisons for CRT (Criterion-Referenced Tests)
from 2007 to 2008. Note the drastic drop in the number of ELL (English language
learners)students counted in the tests from year to year. Do you think we have
30-40% fewer non-native speakers in Utah schools than from the previous year?
Then notice the huge drop (especially in Language Arts)for the percentage of ELL
students testing proficient.
Someone (USOE?) changed the rules in the middle of the game.
Basically, they took the more competent (fluent) ELL students and counted them elsewhere. The "non-ELL" population still shows progress even though a large group of lower-performing students must be figured in their percentages...somewhere.
This is like telling the school they need to finish a 10k run and after they are done you tell them they needed to run a marathon.
If you want real progress and accountability you must have consistent comparisons year to year. As a teacher, I have a difficult time using data that compares apples to oranges, much less apples to the entire fruit basket.
I would love to see the D-news do an investigative story on this angle of Annual Yearly Progress.
Someone (USOE?) changed the rules in the middle of the game.
Basically, they took the more competent (fluent) ELL students and counted them elsewhere. The "non-ELL" population still shows progress even though a large group of lower-performing students must be figured in their percentages...somewhere.
This is like telling the school they need to finish a 10k run and after they are done you tell them they needed to run a marathon.
If you want real progress and accountability you must have consistent comparisons year to year. As a teacher, I have a difficult time using data that compares apples to oranges, much less apples to the entire fruit basket.
I would love to see the D-news do an investigative story on this angle of Annual Yearly Progress.
Professional Educator | 4:35 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008
You are all a bunch of anti-social religious wackos in Utah!
No Child Left Behind is an excellent way to hold schools accountable.
Without accountability, there is no way to improve public education in the U.S.
Vouchers are a joke because the economics of them just don't work out.
Private schooling is simply not an option for 99% of families.
The only way to improve public education is by enforcing NCLB.
No Child Left Behind is an excellent way to hold schools accountable.
Without accountability, there is no way to improve public education in the U.S.
Vouchers are a joke because the economics of them just don't work out.
Private schooling is simply not an option for 99% of families.
The only way to improve public education is by enforcing NCLB.
Anonymous | 4:52 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Here we go again. The families who pay taxes will pay for the rest. Why is it
that free lunches for 2 out of 3 students at EAST ELEMENTARY in Wash. Co. is
fair. The 1 out of 3 students have hard working tax paying parents that are
supporting the rest of the kids. Somehow we need to make this fair. Make it
free lunch for all or make all take bag lunches. And then the government grants
go to pay for those who can't speak English and the children who can speak
English suffer while we play catch up. Come on. Let's fix this fairly.
Anonymous | 5:11 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008
some kids want to be left behind
Another Profesional Educator | 5:28 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008
"No Child Left Behind is an excellent way to hold schools
accountable"
Really? By holding the schools accountable for the kids who refuse to do anything but occupy a seat? Or blaming the schools because the kids won't even show up to occupy that seat? How is that fair. My school didn't make AYP one year for this reason: we had 4 American Indian kids enrolled, and 2 didn't bother to show up for the Proficiency Exam. No Child Left Behind is actually No Child Gets Ahead.
You want to make schools better? Tell the kids/parents that if they don't perform/behave, they can be kicked out. Huh, sounds like a private school.
Really? By holding the schools accountable for the kids who refuse to do anything but occupy a seat? Or blaming the schools because the kids won't even show up to occupy that seat? How is that fair. My school didn't make AYP one year for this reason: we had 4 American Indian kids enrolled, and 2 didn't bother to show up for the Proficiency Exam. No Child Left Behind is actually No Child Gets Ahead.
You want to make schools better? Tell the kids/parents that if they don't perform/behave, they can be kicked out. Huh, sounds like a private school.
Nevada Educator | 5:33 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008
"In other words, 'No Child Left Behind' is a perfect example of
convoluted Bushanguage. "
Sure, blame Bush. It's all his fault! He's legislature/Judicial/Executive all rolled into one!
The No Child Left Behind bill came out of Teddy (HIC) Kennedy's office. The courts for years have sided with irresponsible kids/parents by refusing schools to kick out kids who are there just to cause problems. Blame Bush all you want, since he signed the stupid bill, but he isn't the only one who should share the blame.
Sure, blame Bush. It's all his fault! He's legislature/Judicial/Executive all rolled into one!
The No Child Left Behind bill came out of Teddy (HIC) Kennedy's office. The courts for years have sided with irresponsible kids/parents by refusing schools to kick out kids who are there just to cause problems. Blame Bush all you want, since he signed the stupid bill, but he isn't the only one who should share the blame.
dragongirl | 8:25 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008
With this law, they are pressuring schools to try and make students learn who
just wont, and it will not work. its a bad deal all around. Mr. Prez, you scored
big time on the terrible law list.
Educator | 8:44 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008
NCLB requires all schools in the nation to have 100% student mastery in 2014.
So, all Utah, and national, schools will be failing at that time.
Anon. | 9:29 p.m. Oct. 1, 2008
I teach at a "failing" elementary school. Half of my students are
reading below grade level, I have one student who speaks no English, I have
students who entered 5th grade reading on a 2nd grade level, I have students who
get zero help/support from their parents at home. There is only so much that
teachers can do. Many kids are entering school with so many deficits that the
teachers can't get them caught up. And it is totally unfair to the kids
above grade level because we have to spend so much time with the underperforming
kids. If I were a parent, I would probably homeschool.
I believe in being accountable for things that are actually within my control. I must do the best I can to help these kids, but many of the issues are out of my control. We are now getting a number of children whose parents were druggies when the kids were born. This short-circuits the brains of these kids, and they have little retention, even if they are extensively tutored in reading.
I believe in being accountable for things that are actually within my control. I must do the best I can to help these kids, but many of the issues are out of my control. We are now getting a number of children whose parents were druggies when the kids were born. This short-circuits the brains of these kids, and they have little retention, even if they are extensively tutored in reading.
To Julie | 8:02 a.m. Oct. 2, 2008
I don't know where you get your data on salaries of Principals v. Teachers.
I checked out Utahs Right and in Jordan District the lowest paid principal is
paid less then $5000 more then the highest paid classroom teacher. In Granite
District there is a Driver's Ed. Teacher, a Special Needs Teacher and an
Industrial Arts Teacher who are paid MORE then most of the Principals.
Maybe you should check your facts before you post bogus data.
Maybe you should check your facts before you post bogus data.
RE: To Julie 8:02 a.m. Oct. 2, 2 | 10:55 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
Julie has her facts straight!! The highest paid teachers have been in the
classroom for over twenty years. Check the first three pages and you will find
that principals make far more (double in some cases) than the average teacher.
Perhaps you should check your facts!! Thanks Julie!!!
Proud Mary | 11:01 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
Hey to Julie..good information. Sounds Like To Julie at 8:02a.m is an upset
administrator that doesn't want anyone to know the huge difference in pay.
It is a sad reality!!
Teacher | 12:35 p.m. Oct. 4, 2008
I teach at a junior high school. It is hard to teach the children who just
don't care and their parents give no support. I have students each year
that just fill in the test bubbles as quick as they can without even looking at
the questions. It is sad but some children do want to be left behind!
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