Reader comments
Western Climate Initiative unveils plan for capping emissions

Thinkin' Man | 1:41 p.m. Sept. 23, 2008

There is no evidence that reducing gas emissions will have any effect on climate. Why would government want to do something that has no scientific basis? Oh yeah-- money and power.

Think about it: Cap-and-trade is designed to shift money and power to special interests. It doesn't really reduce gas emissions, much less affect climate.

I'm all for cleaner air, but this is ridiculous.

Dave | 7:11 p.m. Sept. 23, 2008

Thinkin' Man is right on target. I'm for cleaner air also, and we have made great progress in that area, but the greenhous gas argument is still just that, an argument.

xscribe | 12:16 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

And I ask again: What if the greenhouse gas argument is correct? Then we need to act now. What if the greenhouse argument is wrong? Then we have cleaner air. And you saying it's an argument is correct, but it goes both ways. Your argument is no more correct than mine.

Comments continue below

Aaron | 2:50 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

The earth isn't warming any more it hasn't for the past 10 years. There are lots of climatologist that think we're headed for cold period.

Fed up | 5:45 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

Thinking man nailed it.

xscribe's approach is okay ONLY if he wants to cut hs own emissions, and not mandate that everyone else do so. He and his friends can then sit back and feel good about their actions, even though man's "greenhouse emissions" are insignificant, meaningless toots in the wind compared to the forces of nature.

Huntsman is dead wrong on this one and Utah should get out of this stupid suicide pact against modernity immediately.

Matthew | 6:10 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

Greenhouse gases are certainly part of the earth's energy balance, but the idea that "we need to act now" is completely contrived and very dangerous. This whole business of a tipping point is based on some laughably simply modeling. "Better safe than sorry" couldn't be further from the truth.

The argument that Utah and these other western states will be placed at an economic disadvantage is very pertinent. China and India have said they will do NOTHING to combat global warming.

lowonoil | 6:30 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

Peak Oil, and eventually Peak Coal and Peak Natural Gas will be far more effective at limiting our carbon emissions than any system we could hope to implement. We will lower our emissions simply from the lack of cheap fuel to burn. It's been working wonders already. Utah Highway Vehicle Miles are down something like 8% over their peak in 2006.

Prepare for the future | 6:50 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

Fossel fuel won't last forever, why don't we start providing financial incentive to conserve them?

Tax imported oil and electricity made by non renueable means 1%, and use this money to support alternative sources such as wind, geothermal and solar.

jim | 7:26 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

This cap and trade is just another tax. Al gore needs to get out of his private jet and stop flying around the world and ride a bike. There would be less polution from this hypocrite and he could stand to loose a little weight himself.

Dave | 7:56 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

So we can tax away global warming. Go ahead, the rich can afford it and the poor, who cares?

Jess | 8:23 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

The notion of man-made global warming is ridiculous and is not backed by scientific evidence. The scientists that support it are simply trying to keep their government funding. The earth simply has a normal cycle of warming and cooling.

Even if it were true, the benefits of warming could easily outweigh the downside. According to history, it is more likely that we will return to an ice age. Then we would long for the days of global warming.

End of the World | 8:45 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

What if the sun doesn't rise omorrow?
Why take the chance?
Should we all send all of our money to the government so they can ensure the sun rises?

This is the same argument many want to use to "prevent" Global Warming

"Send your money now"
"Stop it before its too late"

Needed? | 8:59 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

I didn't read the rest of these comments so I apologize if I'm repeating, but didn't we already pretty much decide global warming was not generally man-made, or at least a very very minor cause?

Anonymous | 9:19 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

There is nothing wrong with our environment.
This is just something the Liberals made up.

American Patriot | 10:17 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

Cap-and-Trade, like ethanol, is a cruel hoax. It would be fatal to the business community. We must not let any legislation that supports this nonsense become law. Tell your state legislators that we absolutely oppose any kind of cap-and-trade proposals.

Reason | 11:09 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

I agree with the majority of posters so far, that this ï¿½cap and tradeï¿½ scheme is silly and will only hurt Utah businesses and us as consumers. And all in the name of the still-unproven theory of man-made global warming. A previous poster said: What if itï¿½s true ï¿½ then we need to act now. Well, we donï¿½t need to act until we truly KNOW itï¿½s true ï¿½ and we are far from that point. There really is no hurry.

The current so-called ï¿½consensusï¿½ is not scientific. Instead, much of it results from politics, threats ï¿½ implied or otherwise ï¿½ of being black-listed, and the short-sighted-and-destructive lust of global-warming-related businesses. The planet is not in peril, and Governor Huntsman should never have signed up for this foolishness in the first place ï¿½ especially not without first letting the legislature fully deal with it.

Anonymous | 11:23 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

Until China, Russia, and other countries join in this is rediculous. I'm all for cleaner air quality too but what are we going to do when we in America are held to a strict standard but still see the smog passing by from these other countries. It's all about money always has been always will.

sad | 11:49 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

I am saddened by the opinions posted here. You have a sensible republican governor who is smart enough to know that man is effecting the climate of this planet. You would have to be blind and ignorant to think otherwise. There are a lot of smart people republican and democrat who have spent their lives studying climate models and warming and cooling trends. WE ARE AFFECTING THE CLIMATE OF THIS PLANET. There will be a day when we look back on the history books and people will wonder how so many could have been so ignorant and selfish as to let this happen. The coral reefs will be dead in thirty years. The earth is groaning. I personally would rather fight this than let this planet change under my watch.

Paul Mero | 11:50 a.m. Sept. 24, 2008

I think Speaker Curtis was misquoted in the article. He used the word "laudable" when I think he really meant "laughable." But that's just my read.

This new initiative does nothing except put the Utah economy on notice that we're in for hard times, needlessly.

Thinkin' Man | 12:51 p.m. Sept. 24, 2008

Ever seen thermometer data (non-urban) from the U.S. -- particularly the West -- that shows any significant warming over the past 100 years?

Neither have I.

Until the governor can show us those data, he should NOT act the Don Quixote part charging "greenhouse" gas windmills!

NOTE: Alaska is different. The Arctic climate has more dramatic swings from decade to decade. It was like today in the 1930's, and colder in-between.

Michael | 12:58 p.m. Sept. 24, 2008

Boy, what a sorry lot of commentators. Utah may have to come kicking and screaming to the table of global warming acceptance, but it is only another reflection of how out of touch and behind the rest of the world we are. Global warming is accepted by the scientific community as reality and the fact is our future economy will benefit if we begin to direct financial incentives away from fossil fuel development and towards clean, renewable energy. This is well stated in the new Thomas Friedman book, "Hit, Flat and Crowded". We have the opportunity to be at the forefront of new technological advancements in this area- and hopefully under President Obama we will do this (McCain would do this too, to a lessor extent, but he will lose the election anyways). Even McCain and now Palin acknowledge the fact that man plays a role in Global Warming. The majority of Utahns apparently would rather pretend they still live in the 50's- and they can continue to do this until demographic changes make them a minority.

Lyall | 1:18 p.m. Sept. 24, 2008

to sad:

the real thing our grandchildren will be saying down the road is "how arrogant were our ancestors to think that they were 'all-powerful' humans and could control and affect the weather. what amazing hubris."

Do we have an impact? Yes a very, very tiny one. The two great influences on climate are ocean and solar activity of the sun, which just makes sense. I don't need a junk science formula to figure that out.

BTW--the carbon cap/CO2 deal is kind of silly when you think about it, because C02 isn't a pollutant. It's plant food and don't we want more green vegetation around?

Reason | 1:26 p.m. Sept. 24, 2008

Re: ï¿½Sad 11:49ï¿½: By your definition, I guess Iï¿½m one of the ï¿½blind and ignorant.ï¿½ The governor doesnï¿½t know that man is affecting the climate, and neither do you. In a situation like this, itï¿½s foolhardy to pour our limited resources into solving a ï¿½problemï¿½ that we arenï¿½t even sure exists and about which there is much legitimate doubt. Itï¿½s much wiser to put those limited resources into areas where we know there is a significant and measurable benefit, rather than hurriedly doing the equivalent of sacrificing virgins to the volcano god ï¿½just in caseï¿½ it might help.

Lane Meyer | 2:17 p.m. Sept. 24, 2008

The more I track articles like this and then compare the comments, the more I question what percentage of the "news" is nothing more than a propaganda tool.

Unless this crowd that comments on these kinds of pieces is a significant minority, one might think that the politicians and news hacks are in tough with each other and out of touch with the people.

Perhaps we need more and more propaganda until we are convinced of the validity of the fallacy of man-made global warming. It seems to be working with the dire condition of the big three auto makers, or the crisis in the financial sector. We then can follow the pied piper, all be on the same page and live happily ever after. The End.

ChemEng | 2:21 p.m. Sept. 24, 2008

To Michael,
There are a significant number of highly credentialed scientists that do not believe climate change to a significant degree is caused by an increase in the CO2 in the atmosphere. Unfortunately, the opinions of these scientists are not being published in the local newspapers or presented in other news media. Fortunately, they can be found on the internet. There are no real current indicators of man caused climate change.

Article inaccessible?? Please c | 5:44 p.m. Sept. 24, 2008

To the forum monitor: The normal on-line links to this article are gone. Could you check on this? It was probably unintentional.

Gimme a break | 6:58 p.m. Sept. 24, 2008

I'm so glad we have the governator quoted first in the article. How ridiculous ...

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